Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

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Simon Simon
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Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

Hello,

I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when resizing an image.

Most of the time, if not always, when I resize an image it is because it is too large and I resize it so its dimension will fit the content design. I very rarely need to flatten or distort an image in any direction.
So, for my use case, resizing an image should keep the ratio by default, and for the rare situation when flattening is needed pressing additional keys (shift or whatever) or simply using other handlers than the corner ones would do the trick.

However this is not the choice which has been made in LibreOffice, and moreover this behavior is not even configurable.
The non-configurable default behavior is to flatten the image, no matter the handler which has been used, and for the supposedly “rare” case when the user would-like to keep the ratio he can use his both hands, pressing shift key on the keyboard while using the mouse to select and drag the handle without releasing the shift key... which may pose severe accessibility limitation for not computer friendly people.

What I would-like to understand is why this choice has been made?

Is my use-case so strange and unusual ? Do common people most often need to flatten the image and not keeping their ratio ? Why this default behavior is not even configurable?

When I look on the Internet I can see such question arise from time to time, but with no real answer. LibreOffice is a nice software and I would-like to defend it again accusation it is a crappy things... but here, when you have to tell a casual user who is used to just use the mouse to easily resize an image (like it does not only on other well known document editors but also on wysiwyg web editors), that here he will have to use this complex and counter-intuitive procedure just because there is no other way, I do not see how to present it as an evolution :(...

Thank by advance you for you suggestions,
Regards,
Simon.
Cley Faye Cley Faye
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

2014-04-12 20:48 GMT+02:00 Simon <[hidden email]>:

> Is my use-case so strange and unusual ?
>

​No, not unusual at all. I have a hard time imagining use cases where you
don't want to keep the aspect ratio.



> Do common people most often need to
> flatten the image and not keeping their ratio ?
>

Far too often I'm working with peoples just trying to fit an image
somewhere. They would probably find it hard to understand why the image
shrink in both dimensions when they are pulling only one way. It is sad but
it happen.



> Why this default behavior is
> not even configurable?
>

​That I can vouch for. Whatever the rationale behind the default behavior
is, having an option to change it seem reasonable.

There is a lot of options that would seem "obscur" but would greatly
increase flexibility. Perhaps it would be reasonable to have two option
dialogs: the current one, which is relatively "user friendly", and a second
one, more like the "about:config" page in firefox.

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Brian Barker Brian Barker
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ratio by default?

In reply to this post by Simon
At 11:48 12/04/2014 -0700, Simon Noname wrote:

>I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when
>resizing an image. Most of the time, if not always, when I resize an
>image it is because it is too large and I resize it so its dimension
>will fit the content design. I very rarely need to flatten or
>distort an image in any direction. So, for my use case, resizing an
>image should keep the ratio by default, and for the rare situation
>when flattening is needed pressing additional keys (shift or
>whatever) or simply using other handlers than the corner ones would
>do the trick. However this is not the choice which has been made in
>LibreOffice, and moreover this behavior is not even configurable.
>[...] What I would like to understand is why this choice has been made?

I won't attempt to defend this decision, but I think I can see its
logic or origin.  The default behaviour is to resize - and reshape -
the image in exactly the way that the mouse dragging is indicating,
without any other consideration.  The alternative behaviour modifies
this by taking into account another parameter: the original aspect
ratio.  The choice appears to be based on logic rather than
convenience, using the additional key operation to add an additional
constraint rather than to remove one.

>Is my use-case so strange and unusual ?

No.

>Do common people most often need to flatten the image and not
>keeping their ratio ?

Probably not.  (I'm a common person; I usually don't.)

>Why this default behavior is not even configurable?

Dunno.

>... you have to tell a casual user who is used to just use the mouse
>to easily resize an image (like it does not only on other well known
>document editors but also on wysiwyg web editors), ...

Perhaps those responsible for this (other) software got fed up with
seeing so may distorted images - especially of faces and so on - on
web sites and the like that they decided to give in and make it
easier for users not to make that mistake.

Sorry this is no help!

Brian Barker  


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TomD TomD
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ratio by default?

In reply to this post by Simon
Hi :)
Maybe a bug-report / feature-request to ask for a change?

It would make sense to me if grabbing the corners kept the aspect-ratio but
grabbing the sides, or top or bottom allowed you to distort the image.

Inkscape does it by showing the width and height of the current selection
and then has a chain-lock between them.  When it's locked the image keeps
it's aspect ratio.

I had no idea about the shift key locking the aspect-ratio so thanks for
helping make that easier for me!

Errr, i often find people distort logos and images even though they use
packages that supposedly make it easy to keep them undistorted.
Regards from
Tom :)






On 12 April 2014 20:55, Brian Barker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At 11:48 12/04/2014 -0700, Simon Noname wrote:
>
>> I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when
>> resizing an image. Most of the time, if not always, when I resize an image
>> it is because it is too large and I resize it so its dimension will fit the
>> content design. I very rarely need to flatten or distort an image in any
>> direction. So, for my use case, resizing an image should keep the ratio by
>> default, and for the rare situation when flattening is needed pressing
>> additional keys (shift or whatever) or simply using other handlers than the
>> corner ones would do the trick. However this is not the choice which has
>> been made in LibreOffice, and moreover this behavior is not even
>> configurable. [...] What I would like to understand is why this choice has
>> been made?
>>
>
> I won't attempt to defend this decision, but I think I can see its logic
> or origin.  The default behaviour is to resize - and reshape - the image in
> exactly the way that the mouse dragging is indicating, without any other
> consideration.  The alternative behaviour modifies this by taking into
> account another parameter: the original aspect ratio.  The choice appears
> to be based on logic rather than convenience, using the additional key
> operation to add an additional constraint rather than to remove one.
>
>  Is my use-case so strange and unusual ?
>>
>
> No.
>
>  Do common people most often need to flatten the image and not keeping
>> their ratio ?
>>
>
> Probably not.  (I'm a common person; I usually don't.)
>
>  Why this default behavior is not even configurable?
>>
>
> Dunno.
>
>  ... you have to tell a casual user who is used to just use the mouse to
>> easily resize an image (like it does not only on other well known document
>> editors but also on wysiwyg web editors), ...
>>
>
> Perhaps those responsible for this (other) software got fed up with seeing
> so may distorted images - especially of faces and so on - on web sites and
> the like that they decided to give in and make it easier for users not to
> make that mistake.
>
> Sorry this is no help!
>
> Brian Barker
>
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Simon Simon
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ratio by default?

Hello,

Thank you for your answers, and yes they help since I can now better figure out what went on when this choice has been made.

Lately, I had to configure an OS X desktop for some friend. By default the scroll wheel works in opposite sense in OS X in regards to the other common OSes (at least Windows and Linux). By digging in its configuration screen I could find a check box allowing to disable what was called "natural scrolling".

The same way LibreOffice seems to have made the the choice to offer "natural resizing" by default, ie. a functionality where the resizing follows exactly mouse movement. Pressing the shift key therefore enables an additional feature, actually some kind of helper, which will help the resizing to keep the image ratio even it does not follow exactly mouse movement anymore.

However, here is the point that in computer science, what is "natural" and what is "expected" are often far from being the same things. There are tons of helpers that are triggered automatically which makes life easier and make the computer act smarter. The same way than in the above example there was somewhere a check-box allowing to choose between "natural scrolling" and what I may call "expected scrolling", it should be a nice feature to have an option (either somewhere in the configuration screen or, probably even better, in the form of an icon in the image toolbar) which will allow the end-user to choose the expected resizing behaviors.

I've now just created the bug / enhancement request (seems that both links lead to the same page) 77393:

https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=77393

Regards,
Simon.
TomD TomD
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ratio by default?

Hi :)
Nicely done! :)  Thanks for doing that
Regards from
Tom )


On 13 April 2014 12:26, Simon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Thank you for your answers, and yes they help since I can now better figure
> out what went on when this choice has been made.
>
> Lately, I had to configure an OS X desktop for some friend. By default the
> scroll wheel works in opposite sense in OS X in regards to the other common
> OSes (at least Windows and Linux). By digging in its configuration screen I
> could find a check box allowing to disable what was called "natural
> scrolling".
>
> The same way LibreOffice seems to have made the the choice to offer
> "natural
> resizing" by default, ie. a functionality where the resizing follows
> exactly
> mouse movement. Pressing the shift key therefore enables an additional
> feature, actually some kind of helper, which will help the resizing to keep
> the image ratio even it does not follow exactly mouse movement anymore.
>
> However, here is the point that in computer science, what is "natural" and
> what is "expected" are often far from being the same things. There are tons
> of helpers that are triggered automatically which makes life easier and
> make
> the computer act smarter. The same way than in the above example there was
> somewhere a check-box allowing to choose between "natural scrolling" and
> what I may call "expected scrolling", it should be a nice feature to have
> an
> option (either somewhere in the configuration screen or, probably even
> better, in the form of an icon in the image toolbar) which will allow the
> end-user to choose the expected resizing behaviors.
>
> I've now just created the bug / enhancement request (seems that both links
> lead to the same page) 77393:
>
> https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=77393
> <https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=77393>
>
> Regards,
> Simon.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Any-reason-why-resizing-an-image-does-not-keep-aspect-ration-by-default-tp4105095p4105138.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

In reply to this post by Simon
Hi,

Le 12/04/2014 20:48, Simon a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when
> resizing an image.

Enhancement request already reported :
https://bugs.libreoffice.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71669
Default will be changed in version 4.3 :
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.3/fr#Writer

Best regards.
JBF
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TomD TomD
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

Hi :)
Blimey!!!  Good work there!!  I think that is the swiftest change ever!

Good work there! :)))
Many thanks and regards from
Tom :))




On 14 April 2014 08:27, Jean-Baptiste Faure <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le 12/04/2014 20:48, Simon a écrit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when
> > resizing an image.
>
> Enhancement request already reported :
> https://bugs.libreoffice.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71669
> Default will be changed in version 4.3 :
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.3/fr#Writer
>
> Best regards.
> JBF
> --
> Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
>
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rosttyo rosttyo
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Faure
This is great news! Thanks JBF!

On 2014-04-14 16:27, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le 12/04/2014 20:48, Simon a écrit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> I can hardly understand the choice made in the default behavior when
>> resizing an image.
> Enhancement request already reported :
> https://bugs.libreoffice.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71669
> Default will be changed in version 4.3 :
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.3/fr#Writer
>
> Best regards.
> JBF



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CVAlkan CVAlkan
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Faure
I've become used to the idea that I need to use the Shift key for resizing graphics, but was glad to hear that an option to set that default behavior will be in 4.3.

As far as I can tell, however, there is no option to do so in the alpha version of 4.3 which I am currently using.

Or, am I looking in the wrong place? Or is it just not available yet?

Thanks.
TomD TomD
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

Hi :)
I would have been amazed if they had got it in within hours of 'us' asking
for it!  Might be worth nudging the devs list or even better, perhaps, bump
the bugs thread by saying which "nightly build" (or whatever) it wasn't
in.

I never knew about the shift key and always kinda fudged it by opening the
full dialogue-box and doing several things at once from there, ie setting
wrap and spacing etc all from there.

It's really great to know it's going to be so much easier so soon!
Thanks and regards from
Tom :)





On 16 April 2014 13:21, CVAlkan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've become used to the idea that I need to use the Shift key for resizing
> graphics, but was glad to hear that an option to set that default behavior
> will be in 4.3.
>
> As far as I can tell, however, there is no option to do so in the alpha
> version of 4.3 which I am currently using.
>
> Or, am I looking in the wrong place? Or is it just not available yet?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Any-reason-why-resizing-an-image-does-not-keep-aspect-ration-by-default-tp4105095p4105437.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: Any reason why resizing an image does not keep aspect ration by default?

In reply to this post by CVAlkan
Hi,

Le 16/04/2014 14:21, CVAlkan a écrit :
> I've become used to the idea that I need to use the Shift key for resizing
> graphics, but was glad to hear that an option to set that default behavior
> will be in 4.3.

If I read well, there is no option to set the default behavior. The
default behavior has been modified, that's all.

Best regards.
JBF

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