Book-writing with Writer

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

On 07/09/2013 07:27 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Ferand wrote,
>
>>  Virgil,
>
>> please stop this crap, LO and OO are the right tools to produce any
>> document any form any size, only the lack of knowledge is a barrier .
>> All professional tools to produce a book are XML based like LO and
>> OO, so start writing, use a simple style model , understood the
>> OutputLevels, understood picture resolutions and go. Afterwards
>> choose a tool  make a tranformation to deliver the work to a printer
>> (PDF) or to a HTML 5/ Epub reader
>> Greetz
>
> I noticed you didn't copy the list (a reply vs. reply all problem),
> but I'll include the list on my reply as I think it might be helpful.
> I'll grant that my suggesting other products on an LO users list may
> not be the best form, but I do think it proper to point out LO's
> limitations.
>
> I fully agree that LO can produce any document any size. I fully agree
> that lack of knowledge can be a barrier (to *any* product, be it LO or
> LaTeX). But, I think your last line helps prove my point. You suggest
> writing in LO, and then picking *another* tool to transform the final
> product into PDF or Epub reader format. In so suggesting, you imply
> that LO is *not* the right tool to perform those tasks.
>
> I was trying to suggest tools that could perform the entire project,
> from writing to publishing. The PDF output from LyX/LaTeX cannot be
> touched by *anything* that I know of (at least in the FOSS world). For
> example, LaTeX automatically, and by default, produces ligatures,
> those "fi" and "fl" combinations that are often found lacking today in
> "professionally" published books produced by word processors like LO
> or Word. The Microtype package is an absolute must for any proper
> output with justified margins, as it justifies an entire paragraph,
> not just lines, making small adjustments, not only between words, but
> *within* letters as well. LO's line by line justification looks
> hideous in comparison (yes, I'm a little OCD about these things). And,
> unless you use Linux Libertine as your typeface, you won't be able to
> get such professional effects as old style numbering or true small caps.
>
> There was a day when proper justification, ligatures, and professional
> type effects were the expected norm in professionally designed books.
> But, today, so many publishing houses are simply accepting the output
> of word processors that it's becoming rare to find a properly designed
> book. The lack of professional output in computer generated books was
> the reason for the creation of TeX in the first place, some 35 years ago.
>
> As far as the ebook format is concerned, nothing I've seen (again in
> cost-effective tools) can match the output of Atlantis.
>
> Virgil
>

I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my
tablets.  All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one
that works best for tablet reading.  I choose something along the page
size used for paper-back books.  So I format the page to about 4 by 7
inches, with a small margin size.  Then I export it to a PDF file.  Of
course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle
or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre".  I run it on a
Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember
correctly]

I also can save the book file via printing to CUPS-PDF and making sure
that my exact fonts are embedded properly.  LO 4.1.x release notes shows
the "embed font" as a checkbox option.

There use to be an extension to export to ePub, but I do not know if it
is a good one or not.

SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats
and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or
book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets.  For
Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those
glyph/letter combinations available.  But I never saw the need to use
them.  I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or
printed one.  There are fonts specifically created for their readability
for books.  Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical
books you buy.




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Paul D. Mirowsky Paul D. Mirowsky
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Tom
Couldn't agree more.

I've found the best way to start is write short document consisting of
all the parts you need.
Learn the appropriate Writer terms and functions.
Get everything to format properly down to the last little item.

Save your template and your good to go.

By the time your done with it, you'll understand your own created
format, that it becomes second nature.

Then write your book.

The longest document I've done was 64 pages from and old Lotus Wordpro
that I had to totally redo in Writer.

I am pretty happy with the results.

Hope this helps.

On 7/9/2013 5:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> When i first started using Writer i found i struggled against the software quite a bit.  Often people try something new unaware of the baggage they bring with them (such as bad habits learned through years of using other products) and somehow keep managing to find unsuitable work-flows that do make it more difficult than it needs to be.
>
> It's like watching someone that is scared of the water splashing about and fighting (and failing) to stay on top.  If you are now a good swimmer can you remember the first time you laid back and relaxed and found that human beings are naturally bouyant?  That only small minimal strokes of your arms almost parallel to the surface are far more effective at keeping you above water than up&down strokes.  For me it took a  huge wrench in my mind.  Other people seemed to find it easy.
>
> I have taught Word as part of ECDL and other courses and people generally think i am extremely proficient with it, at least until MSO 2007, but i often found that other people's documents were a nightmare to beat into shape.  Even a tiny change often threw up some unexpected formatting tangle that they had somehow managed to root deep into their document.  Also old documents written with previous versions often came out all wrong.
>
> With LibreOffice it is much easier to get a good looking result that behaves itself.  However if you do fight against it all the time then maybe you do need to either
> 1.  Read up on documentation and adjust to the software and/or
> 2.  Experiment and play with documents created by other people to see how they did it and/or
> 3.  Experiment and play around with different ways of doing things.  See if you have any baggage or bad habits that you can break-down to simplify your work-flow
> Otherwise, if you are always struggling against the flow then you really are better off with something that does suite you.
>
>
> First time i used LO to do a ToC it was a major pain.  2nd time (and from then on) i found it amazingly easy.  That first time i did mess around with all sorts of aspects of it to work out how to beat it into submission.  Eventually i worked out how to use it rather than to fight against it.  Now it's incredibly easy.  Even after a radical change i just right-click and choose "update" and it fixes itself.  "Simples" ;)
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Virgil Arrington <[hidden email]>
>> To: Mirosław Zalewski <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 1:29
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>>
>>
>> Miroslaw,
>>
>> You're right; I did merge *writing* and *publishing*. To that end, let me muddy the waters even more by mentioning yWriter, a software program designed specifically and solely for writing novels with many of the tools you suggest. The frustration that I've found is that there are some publishing (or formatting) tasks that are best handled completely separate from writing, such as page layout, font selection, table of contents generation, etc. However, I find other formatting tasks are better handled on the fly while typing, such as applying italics to a word. Sometimes, I find seeing the paragraph layout onscreen helpful to organizing my thoughts, which of course you won't see with a strict text editor or pure LaTeX editor. At least LyX helps by showing some formatting onscreen.
>>
>> Anytime I use a program like yWriter, I end up spending a lot of time later applying formatting that I could have applied on the fly with a decent word processor. That may not be a concern for a person whose work will be published, and therefore formatted, by someone else, like a professional publishing house. But, the original poster mentioned self-publishing an e-book.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Mirosław Zalewski
>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:51 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>>
>> On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> but to
>>> me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square
>>> peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not
>>> be worth it.
>> I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a
>> book.
>>
>> As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks.
>> They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character
>> descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this
>> is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice
>> note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs
>> you do not have to.
>>
>> As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced
>> separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer.
>> Agreed.
>>
>> But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them.
>> If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long
>> document in Writer can be done with little hassle.
>>
>> I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never
>> seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I
>> would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign.
>> -- Best regards
>> Mirosław Zalewski
>>
>> -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>>


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marcgrober marcgrober
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Tom
On 7/9/13 2:12 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
>
> Writer, Word and WordPerfect and others do seem to be designed for business letters and fairly short works.  LaTeX (and the various front-ends (such as LyX) that attempt to make it easier to use) do seem to have advantages for larger works but are more difficult to wrestle with in the beginning when you are learning how to use them.  Many people try and give up or find them a total nightmare.  However, people DO manage to use Writer to do larger books.  Piers Anthony, the famous sci-fi writer, mentions it in the preface to most of his books.  Also our Documentation Team.  Our Documentation Team have even published an ePub and since found an easier way of doing it.  We should be learning from them and gain from their experience.  
>
>
I have heard rave reviews about Scrivener,  but was not impressed when I
looked at it,  but then I don't usually write books......  It looked
very robust and comprehensive, but a bit complex as far as setting up
your templates,  but I suppose the same can be said of writer.

There is also a latex lab for google docs which I have played with if
you want to be that granular....

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Kracked_P_P wrote:

>I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my
>tablets.  All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that
>works best for tablet reading.  I choose something along the page size used
>for paper-back books.  So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a
>small margin size.  Then I export it to a PDF file.  Of course, if I want
>to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use
>an external package called "Calibre".  I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system,
>but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly]

I've done the same thing by formatting the page size of a PDF file to fit my
Kindle screen. Of course, with PDF, you lose a lot of the functionality of
the Kindle (or Nook), such as scalable fonts and the continuous flow of text
without page breaks, etc. For that, you need the e-book formats (Mobi for
Kindle, Epub for Nook). This is where my OCD kicks in for I've found that
most programs, such as LO, and even LyX and Markdown, lose some formatting
in the translation to HTML, which is the basis of Epub. Of all the programs
I've tried, Atlantis does the best job of retaining my formatting and it
exports directly to Epub and Mobi formats. I've used Calibre and find it
really good, but again, my results have been spotty. So far, I haven't been
able to get a good conversion of a PDF to Mobi with Calibre (maybe it's user
error on my part). There's a lot to Calibre and I haven't fully explored it
yet.


>SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and
>use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that
>works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets.

I do the same with Atlantis and export directly to Epub and Mobi formats.

>For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those
>glyph/letter combinations available.  But I never saw the need to use them.
>I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed
>one.  There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books.
>Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy.

If you're saving to an e-book format, ligatures aren't necessary, nor is
margin justification or true typographic features. But, if you're going to
print that puppy, you want it to have all the typographic excellence you can
get and, right now at least, that excellence is lacking with typical word
processors. For print excellence, you can't beat LaTeX.

Virgil


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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
On 07/09/2013 12:05 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> But, LO's navigator tool offers much of the same functionality without having to split your document up into
> many different files. With the navigator, you can jump from point to
> point within a single document based on headings, bookmarks, etc.

With documents of under 500 pages, less than 100 images, and less than
100 tables, MasterDocuments may not be worthwhile.

With documents of 5,000+ pages, several thousand images, several
thousand tables, and assorted other objects, system performance takes a
nose-dive, when MasterDocuments are not used.

Note:  The biggest issue/bug with 5,000+ page documents, is that LibO
has (¿had?) a limit of 2^64 style changes per document.

jonathon
--
LibreOffice in a Multi-Lingual Environment.

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
On 07/09/2013 03:48 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Kracked_P_P wrote:
>
>> I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on
>> my tablets.  All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper
>> one that works best for tablet reading.  I choose something along the
>> page size used for paper-back books.  So I format the page to about 4
>> by 7 inches, with a small margin size.  Then I export it to a PDF
>> file.  Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format
>> instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called
>> "Calibre".  I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows
>> as well. [if I remember correctly]
>
> I've done the same thing by formatting the page size of a PDF file to
> fit my Kindle screen. Of course, with PDF, you lose a lot of the
> functionality of the Kindle (or Nook), such as scalable fonts and the
> continuous flow of text without page breaks, etc. For that, you need
> the e-book formats (Mobi for Kindle, Epub for Nook). This is where my
> OCD kicks in for I've found that most programs, such as LO, and even
> LyX and Markdown, lose some formatting in the translation to HTML,
> which is the basis of Epub. Of all the programs I've tried, Atlantis
> does the best job of retaining my formatting and it exports directly
> to Epub and Mobi formats. I've used Calibre and find it really good,
> but again, my results have been spotty. So far, I haven't been able to
> get a good conversion of a PDF to Mobi with Calibre (maybe it's user
> error on my part). There's a lot to Calibre and I haven't fully
> explored it yet.
>
>
>> SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats
>> and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or
>> book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets.
>
> I do the same with Atlantis and export directly to Epub and Mobi formats.
>
>> For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those
>> glyph/letter combinations available.  But I never saw the need to use
>> them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or
>> printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their
>> readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as
>> well as physical books you buy.
>
> If you're saving to an e-book format, ligatures aren't necessary, nor
> is margin justification or true typographic features. But, if you're
> going to print that puppy, you want it to have all the typographic
> excellence you can get and, right now at least, that excellence is
> lacking with typical word processors. For print excellence, you can't
> beat LaTeX.
>
> Virgil
>
>

Yes, if you fix the page and font size to what works for you, then it
may not be right for others.  Well, I still can take the TXT file and
convert it to a ePub file.  But, the Calibre package [Ubuntu 12.04] and
gives me both Nook and Kindle page formatting under the ePub exporting,
for whatever reasons.  I have the ability to use both Kindle and Nook
apps on both of my tablets, even though one is a Nook.  I have seen a
Kindle app so you can read your Kindle books from your Amazon "library"
on you Nook tablet.  I have not tried that, but my old tablet had the
Kindle app on it and I was reading some books bought/downloaded from
Amazon.  Mostly free ones though. Will see later if I can read them on
my Nook..


For printed books, I still will go with the "easy to read book fonts"
and some seem to not need the ligatures.  The only thing might be needed
is some spacing options between words and letters for fully-justified
text.  Jean Hollis Weber, our main documentation editor, can tell you
how much a pain that can be to get the lines and paragraphs to look
"right" with fully right and left justified text within a document.  
Hyphenation helps but not completely in that department.

Actually, I was looking at a new book and I was shocked that the printed
paper-back book cost almost $5 LESS than the Nook and Kindle file
version[s].  You would expect the printed book to cost more, and but not
the e-book file to cost more.  Well, since some people claim printed
books are "dead", and no one would want to buy a printed copy, someone
decided to make the e-book versions more expensive, so the publisher
could make a really big profit.  I doubt the author is getting more
money out of such a sale.  He would get the same income per book, no
matter what the format; hard-cover, paper-back, or e-book.





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Urmas D. Urmas D.
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Pablo Dotro
"Pablo Dotro":
I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the
form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created very
long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book.

But I find that there is a gap between
the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and
master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work.

The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be
decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.



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snowshed snowshed
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Pablo Dotro
On 7/7/13 10:34 PM, Pablo Dotro wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the
> form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created very
> long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book.
> Having been using word processing software for a living for the last 15
> years or so, I thought myself as "power user" enough to take the next
> step and try to create my document relying on Writer's features and not
> depending on someone else to typeset the material.
> However, after reading both the "Getting Started" and the "Writer
> Guide", I am convinced that it is possible. Heh, the mere existance of
> those books is proof enough ;-) But I find that there is a gap between
> the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and
> master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work. A
> quick look to the odt files themselves convinced me of that.
> So after some googling and a disappointint amazon search on books on
> this subject, I come here to rely on our collective knowledge, with a
> question:
>
> Does anyone know about a tutorial, book or website where I can
> specifically learn about creating a book-lenght document, with chapters
> (as subdocuments) and a master document, consistent styling, indexing
> and table of contents with Libreoffice?
>
> Thnk you very much for your time, and best regards,

Since you seem to have a similar view to me, regarding major project,
here's my thoughts...

That similar view is to search out and find the right tools before
actually starting the project.  I've got some personal ideas that need
some kind of document output, so I'm looking at, or at least trying to
look at, all the available alternatives to the ubiquitous office suites,
which may or may not be the best tools for the job.

First, I've only had time to skim the posts, I may have misread or
simply missed something here and there.

Lyx has been mentioned.  I just took a quick look at it, and was
dismayed to find it has, essentially, zero support for .doc/docx files.
  And, if memory serves, few export formats if any.  :-(  Why, I don't
know, just about every other text program I've looked at does.  :-)  So
it's been removed from my computer... for now.   LOL  Maybe there is a
way to convert it's files, I did not do any searching for something.

Someone mentioned Scrivener.  I'm in the process of using the demo, off
and on, right now.  Even if you don't use this program for the final
output, I'd recommend it solely from the aspect of the user's ability to
keep all his research notes within your Scrivener project, from PDF
files to personal notes to web pages to images.  Yes, it will open web
pages from within Scrivener, no need to open your browser to view them.

A plus side for you, it would seem, is it directly supports the eBook
format.  I know nothing about the ebook format, but if that's where you
are really going, I'd at least look at this.

At the moment, my biggest personal concern is how it would handle images
in the final output.  I have not investigated this yet, but need to.

It's not expensive, IMO, $45 US.  I do plan on purchasing it simply
because the ability to put all my research in the project where it's
seems to be extremely easy to access.  Even if the final output is done
some other way.  One advantage of my Mac, the Mac natively produces PDF
files, but I don't know how good the output will be.

There are a number of Scrivener tutorials on YouTube, and it comes with
a 500+ page manual, all done in Scrivener.  Yes, you heard me right, a
real live manual in PDF form.  And tutorials are built into the program.

Someone mentioned DTP.  I.E. a program like Adobe Pagemaker.  Which, you
obviously don't want to purchase for this.

There is a free DTP program called Scribus,
http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus

The Lite version of Calamus is shareware,
http://www.calamus.net/calamus/lite.php  I used the paid, commercial
version on the Atari platform years ago, liked it, but haven't used any
DTP software for years.

Serif.com has a reasonably priced DTP program, PagePlus X7,
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/

Whether any of these programs do much, if anything, for ebooks I do not
know.
And neither will you if you don't check them out.

I had not heard of yWriter, so I'll have to check that out.  Have the
page in my browser as I write this post.

If/when you settle on something, I wouldn't mind knowing why you picked
one over the another.  The email address on this post is valid, please
use it if you wish.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.4
Firefox 20.0
Thunderbird 17.0.5
LibreOffice 4.0.3.3


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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
On 10/07/2013 5:20, Urmas wrote:
> "Pablo Dotro":
> I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the
> form of a self published, free ebook.
please dowload the eLAIX extension, there is a manuel for how to start a
ebook with LO

> And while I have created very
> long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book.
>
> But I find that there is a gap between
> the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and
> master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work.
>
> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will
> be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely
> InDesign.
>
>


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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Urmas wrote:

>The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be
>decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.

You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final
output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self
published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that
*avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher.

Virgil


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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Urmas wrote:
>
>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will
>> be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely
>> InDesign.
>
> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for
> final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be
> creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking
> for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a
> professional publisher.
>
> Virgil
>

The poster might want to look at this page.

http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html

In the list, there is information about some publishers and services,
with some references to e-book self publishing.  IT might be worth a look.

If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there
may be some good information there to guide through the process.

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.

Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers"
link suggested below.

Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers
Tune-up Manual."

Virgil

-----Original Message-----
From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer

On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Urmas wrote:
>
>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be
>> decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.
>
> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final
> output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self
> published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that
> *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher.
>
> Virgil
>

The poster might want to look at this page.

http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html

In the list, there is information about some publishers and services,
with some references to e-book self publishing.  IT might be worth a look.

If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there
may be some good information there to guide through the process.

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Tom Tom
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

Hi :)
I think ani-privacy is an array of automated processes that is waaay out of anyone's control now.  Just click on the "Spam" button and let your filters learn what to block and what to accept.  People love to share intimate details of their life with everyone across the planet (Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking is enormously popular).  We have actively encouraged companies to collect information on all of us.  Just avoid thinking of it as spooky and let them drown under the weight of the data.
Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: Virgil Arrington <[hidden email]>
>To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 11:56
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>
>
>Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.
>
>Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers" link suggested below.
>
>Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers Tune-up Manual."
>
>Virgil
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>
>On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> Urmas wrote:
>>
>>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign.
>>
>> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
>
>The poster might want to look at this page.
>
>http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html
>
>In the list, there is information about some publishers and services,
>with some references to e-book self publishing.  IT might be worth a look.
>
>If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there
>may be some good information there to guide through the process.
>
>-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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>
>
>-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>
>
>
>
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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington

hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the
owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are.

I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site.

Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search,  
or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some
type of book or manual?  If you did, you may have triggered a
advertisement from Amazon.

When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my
searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and
electronics web store].

Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla
Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you
visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address
and other things you do not want given out.  Every browser I know of has
personal information stored in it.  The trick is to make your browser
not have this info available to the sites you visit.  Firefox has the
"private window" option. [File > New Private Window].




On 07/11/2013 06:56 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.
>
> Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the
> "hipiers" link suggested below.
>
> Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book,
> "Writers Tune-up Manual."
>
> Virgil
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>
> On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> Urmas wrote:
>>
>>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write
>>> will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most
>>> likely InDesign.
>>
>> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for
>> final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be
>> creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking
>> for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a
>> professional publisher.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
>
> The poster might want to look at this page.
>
> http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html
>
> In the list, there is information about some publishers and services,
> with some references to e-book self publishing.  IT might be worth a
> look.
>
> If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there
> may be some good information there to guide through the process.
>


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Tom Tom
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

Hi :)
Errr, just my own personal opinion of course and on "a bad hair day"

Try watching "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", particularly the scene with the peasants working in the field and claiming to be "an autonomous collective" and then admitting their lord was out to lunch. 
Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: Tom Davies <[hidden email]>
>To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 13:40
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>
>
>
>Hi :)
>I think that "Private Window" is based on a "standards" agreement that went through the US Senate and was heavily lobbied against by hefty US companies that were grumbling that they needed to invade everyone's privacy in order to be able to sell their products and make America great (they meant the US, but obviously they ignore the southern half of the continent and the 50% of the remaining land mass that is Canada). 
>
>The result is that websites are sent an extra bit of information about you and that bit is your intention to be anonymous and that information, along with all the rest, can be logged by whichever site you visit.  Some governments (ie not just in the US) agencies see the desire to be  anonymous (ie a "loner") as suspicious so once they have figured out how to do it then they might put you higher up
 any lists they might keep (if they can handle the volume of data) and, of course, companies can just ignore the request for privacy or even see it as a challenge. 

>
>Individuals 'rights' versus corporate profits.  Which tends to win these days? 
>
>Outside of the USA such things are normal and common-place and have been going on for centuries.  Occasionally one country or other produces a piece of paper that claims individuals have rights but those usually turn out to be "business as usual" fairly quickly or even plummet into an even worse situation for some time. 
>Regards from 
>Tom :) 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster <[hidden email]>
>>To: [hidden email]
>>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 12:58
>>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>>
>>
>>
>>hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the
>>owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are.
>>
>>I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site.
>>
>>Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search, 
>>or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some
>>type of book or manual?  If you did, you may have triggered a
>>advertisement from
 Amazon.

>>
>>When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my
>>searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and
>>electronics web store].
>>
>>Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla
>>Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you
>>visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address
>>and other things you do not want given out.  Every browser I know of has
>>personal information stored in it.  The trick is to make your browser
>>not have this info available to the sites you visit.  Firefox has the
>>"private window" option. [File > New Private Window].
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 07/11/2013 06:56 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>>> Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid.
>>>
>>> Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the
>>> "hipiers" link suggested
 below.

>>>
>>> Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book,
>>> "Writers Tune-up Manual."
>>>
>>> Virgil
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>>>
>>> On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>>>> Urmas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write
>>>>> will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most
>>>>> likely InDesign.
>>>>
>>>> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for
>>>> final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be
>>>> creating a "self
 published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking

>>>> for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a
>>>> professional publisher.
>>>>
>>>> Virgil
>>>>
>>>
>>> The poster might want to look at this page.
>>>
>>> http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html
>>>
>>> In the list, there is information about some publishers and services,
>>> with some references to e-book self publishing.  IT might be worth a
>>> look.
>>>
>>> If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there
>>> may be some good information there to guide through the process.
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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>>
>>
>
>
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Wolfgang Keller Wolfgang Keller
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself
> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project.
>
> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the
> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray
> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter
> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page
> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long
> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of
> the formatting codes inserted by WP.

I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect
*does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the
dozens of different document processing applications I have used over
the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring
strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it
fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel).

Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer
in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you
want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even
use it for letters.
 
Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup"
style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and
page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have
their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

Wolfgang,

I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not
sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could
never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and
OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was very
typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion until they
were changed by a later command. Hence the reason <reveal codes> was so
essential with WP.

Virgil

-----Original Message-----
From: Wolfgang Keller
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer

> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself
> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project.
>
> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the
> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray
> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter
> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page
> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long
> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of
> the formatting codes inserted by WP.

I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect
*does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the
dozens of different document processing applications I have used over
the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring
strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it
fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel).

Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer
in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you
want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even
use it for letters.

Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup"
style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and
page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have
their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

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rosttyo rosttyo
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Wolfgang Keller
"As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then
create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document.

On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

>> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself
>> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
>> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project.
>>
>> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the
>> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray
>> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter
>> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page
>> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long
>> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of
>> the formatting codes inserted by WP.
> I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect
> *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the
> dozens of different document processing applications I have used over
> the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring
> strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it
> fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel).
>
> Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer
> in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you
> want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even
> use it for letters.
>  
> Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup"
> style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and
> page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have
> their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Wolfgang
>


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Jack Wallen Jack Wallen
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Re: Book-writing with Writer


On 07/11/2013 10:00 PM, rost52 wrote:
> "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all
> and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and
> reformat the whole document.
>
> On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote:
>>
>
>
I'll reiterate this again -- if you're self publishing (and you intend
on doing so with Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, KOBO, etc... you will have to
convert whatever file you create into .mobi or .epub format. The best
tool for that task is Calibre. And the best way to do that is to save a
doc as an .html file (in LO), import it into Calibre, and then covert
it. That's what I've done for every novel I've published.

--
*Jack Wallen*|The Zombie King
Get on the Dark Hayride at Get Jack'd
Author of the I Zombie, Fringe Killers, The Nameless, and Shero series
of books

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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Re: Book-writing with Writer

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
Virgil ,

the secret of styles for ebook publishing is the "OutLineLevel" you can
uses any style but change your paragraph styles to the correct OutlineLevel

TITEL = OutlineLevel 1

             Subtitel = OutlineLevel 2

                     Subsubtitel = OutlineLevel 3 etc...to 9

> Wolfgang,
>
> I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm
> not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and
> could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to
> Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP,
> everything was very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a
> linear fashion until they were changed by a later command. Hence the
> reason <reveal codes> was so essential with WP.
>
> Virgil
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang Keller
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>
>> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself
>> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel
>> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project.
>>
>> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the
>> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray
>> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter
>> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page
>> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long
>> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of
>> the formatting codes inserted by WP.
>
> I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect
> *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the
> dozens of different document processing applications I have used over
> the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring
> strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it
> fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel).
>
> Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer
> in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you
> want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even
> use it for letters.
>
> Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup"
> style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and
> page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have
> their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Wolfgang
>


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