CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

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emarkay emarkay
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

An additional Accessibility aid could be an "Email the administrator if you are unable to use this antispam prevention feature", that could even be an automated  "If you get this email, please reply with "I am a Human"".

It is sad that even in Linux, there's Spam - Shame we can't sudo it away... :)
LO version as updated via PPA - Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (& Windows XP-SP3) - (1) 2.8 G/2G RAM/ATI HD2600,512VRAM/SIS AC97 OB Audio (2) 2.9 G/3G RAM/NVIDIA 9500GT,1024VRAM/SB AudigySE Audio (3) 2.3 G/2G RAM/NVIDIA FX1500M,256VRAM/Sigmatel HD Audio
Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Manuel Schneider
Hello Manuel,

Manuel Schneider wrote on 2011-02-06 15.51:
> Ok, I have restored my SSH key and got the login details from Flo, so I
> did some checks.
>
> User:Peacfata was NOT emailconfirmed!

WTF?! It normally should not be able to edit pages (at least outside of
the userspace) when not e-mail confirmed. Very strange.

> I have removed all the ConfirmEdit stuff from the configuration (an
> extension I have actually never seen in action before) and have instead
> put quite simple user privilege settings in place of which I know that
> they are working.
>
> Let's test these first before installing a captcha.

Thanks a lot for your work, Manuel! Much appreciated!

Florian

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Volker Merschmann Volker Merschmann
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Manuel Schneider
Hi,

2011/2/6 Manuel Schneider <[hidden email]>:

> Ok, I have restored my SSH key and got the login details from Flo, so I did
> some checks.
>
> User:Peacfata was NOT emailconfirmed!
>
> I have removed all the ConfirmEdit stuff from the configuration (an
> extension I have actually never seen in action before) and have instead put
> quite simple user privilege settings in place of which I know that they are
> working.
>
> Let's test these first before installing a captcha.
>
> As said we have been using reCaptcha before, but as far as I am concerned we
> have removed it from all our wikis a few years ago and we felt no need for
> it to come back yet.
>
>
We should reconsider this, as Sophie just had to delete spam pages
from fresh registered users again.

Sophie told me by IRC: "for one of the page you mentionned the user
was (User creation log); 11:17:10 . . Xeniste (Talk | contribs |
block) New user account and the page was created at 14:54:12"

If there are other possibilities in tuning the site, please try. But
we can't go on deleting that number of pages per day, that time could
be used better.

Bye

Volker

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Michael Wheatland-2 Michael Wheatland-2
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

On 09/02/11 00:45, Volker Merschmann wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 2011/2/6 Manuel Schneider<[hidden email]>:
>> Ok, I have restored my SSH key and got the login details from Flo, so I did
>> some checks.
>>
>> User:Peacfata was NOT emailconfirmed!
>>
>> I have removed all the ConfirmEdit stuff from the configuration (an
>> extension I have actually never seen in action before) and have instead put
>> quite simple user privilege settings in place of which I know that they are
>> working.
>>
>> Let's test these first before installing a captcha.
>>
>> As said we have been using reCaptcha before, but as far as I am concerned we
>> have removed it from all our wikis a few years ago and we felt no need for
>> it to come back yet.
>>
>>
> We should reconsider this, as Sophie just had to delete spam pages
> from fresh registered users again.
>
> Sophie told me by IRC: "for one of the page you mentionned the user
> was (User creation log); 11:17:10 . . Xeniste (Talk | contribs |
> block) New user account and the page was created at 14:54:12"
>
> If there are other possibilities in tuning the site, please try. But
> we can't go on deleting that number of pages per day, that time could
> be used better.
>
> Bye
>
> Volker
>
I don't believe there is any way to prevent spam entirely, but using
Re/Captcha is a good step to weeding out a lot of the simple spammers.

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Volker Merschmann
Hi Volker, *,

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Volker Merschmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/2/6 Manuel Schneider <[hidden email]>:
>> Ok, I have restored my SSH key and got the login details from Flo, so I did
>> some checks.
>>
>> User:Peacfata was NOT emailconfirmed!
>>
>> [...]
>
> Sophie told me by IRC: "for one of the page you mentionned the user
> was (User creation log); 11:17:10 . . Xeniste (Talk | contribs |
> block) New user account and the page was created at 14:54:12"

Xeniste has also not been emailconfirmed either.

So if that hurdle isn't in action, then there's (IMHO) no real need
for using recaptcha (unless the email-confirmation cannot be enforced
in the short term). Of course if that hurdle is not enough to prevent
spamming, then of course recaptcha should be added.

ciao
Christian

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Mike Houben
On 2011-02-06 4:16 AM, Mike Houben wrote:
> their [1] is no CAPTCHA. We should consider to put a small CAPTCHA their.

Just please don't use image captcha's.......

-10 to reCaptcha...

Image captchas suck

Use something like this:

http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8743

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Charles

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

Hi Charles, *,

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Charles Marcus
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2011-02-06 4:16 AM, Mike Houben wrote:
>> their [1] is no CAPTCHA. We should consider to put a small CAPTCHA their.
>
> Just please don't use image captcha's.......

We're talking about a one-time check, when registering, not for each
and every change.

> -10 to reCaptcha...

+20 for reCaptcha if any captcha is to be used at all. (I don't think
it is necessary once email-confirmation is enforced before editing is
allowed)
reCaptcha is not only an image captcha, but can also be used with audio...

If you can't read the first challenge, just request another one until
you get an easy to read one.

ciao
Christian

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Michael Wheatland-2 Michael Wheatland-2
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
On 09/02/11 05:42, Charles Marcus wrote:

> On 2011-02-06 4:16 AM, Mike Houben wrote:
> Just please don't use image captcha's.......
>
> -10 to reCaptcha...
>
> Image captchas suck
>
> Use something like this:
>
> http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8743
>
Charles,
I have used math captcha as you are suggesting. It doesn't work at all
in my experience. Not sure if you are aware but computers are quite good
at calculating math problems, usually better than humans.

In my experience image captchas are the only ones that work and
ReCaptcha allows users to 'request another' or 'read via audio' options
for accessibility and inclusion of people who may not be very literate
in English, IMO a very important factor in an international community.

+ googol to ReCaptcha.
- 3 billion to math captcha

Maybe a simple +1 would do :)

Michael Wheatland

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Volker Merschmann Volker Merschmann
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
Hi,

2011/2/8 Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>:

> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Volker Merschmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2011/2/6 Manuel Schneider <[hidden email]>:
>>> Ok, I have restored my SSH key and got the login details from Flo, so I did
>>> some checks.
>>>
>>> User:Peacfata was NOT emailconfirmed!
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Sophie told me by IRC: "for one of the page you mentionned the user
>> was (User creation log); 11:17:10 . . Xeniste (Talk | contribs |
>> block) New user account and the page was created at 14:54:12"
>
> Xeniste has also not been emailconfirmed either.
>
> So if that hurdle isn't in action, then there's (IMHO) no real need
> for using recaptcha (unless the email-confirmation cannot be enforced
> in the short term). Of course if that hurdle is not enough to prevent
> spamming, then of course recaptcha should be added.
>

We have to act QUICK now, the number of incoming pages is increasing
fast: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=jobs&button=
And this is only for that keyword.

Whoever has the right to install the reCapthcha should do it NOW.

Bye

Volker

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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

Hello,

Volker Merschmann wrote on 2011-02-09 10.14:
> We have to act QUICK now, the number of incoming pages is increasing
> fast:http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=jobs&button=
> And this is only for that keyword.
>
> Whoever has the right to install the reCapthcha should do it NOW.

honestly, I don't get why the spam comes in, as confirm to edit is
enabled, so users without a confirmed mail address should not be able to
edit at all.

Anyways, I've just installed the captcha as described on
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReCAPTCHA - Manuel, if you have
any better idea, please let me know. :-)

Thanks,
Florian

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Manuel Schneider Manuel Schneider
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?


That seems to me to be very odd.

Can I please have access to the database to investigate the situation?

Am 9.2.2011 schrieb "Florian Effenberger"
<[hidden email]>:

>Hello,
>
>Volker Merschmann wrote on 2011-02-09 10.14:
>> We have to act QUICK now, the number of incoming pages is increasing
>> fast:http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=jobs&button=
>> And this is only for that keyword.
>>
>> Whoever has the right to install the reCapthcha should do it NOW.
>
>honestly, I don't get why the spam comes in, as confirm to edit is
>enabled, so users without a confirmed mail address should not be able to
>edit at all.
>
>Anyways, I've just installed the captcha as described on
>http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReCAPTCHA - Manuel, if you have
>any better idea, please let me know. :-)
>
>Thanks,
>Florian
>
>--
>Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>
>Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
>Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
>Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Florian Effenberger
Hi Florian:

Le 2011-02-09 05:10, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

> Hello,
>
> Volker Merschmann wrote on 2011-02-09 10.14:
>> We have to act QUICK now, the number of incoming pages is increasing
>> fast:http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=jobs&button=
>>
>> And this is only for that keyword.
>>
>> Whoever has the right to install the reCapthcha should do it NOW.
>
> honestly, I don't get why the spam comes in, as confirm to edit is
> enabled, so users without a confirmed mail address should not be able to
> edit at all.
>
> Anyways, I've just installed the captcha as described on
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReCAPTCHA - Manuel, if you have
> any better idea, please let me know. :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Florian
>

Yikes! The ReCAPTCHA is not letting me edit the wiki. Here is the
message it leaves me:

========================
Detected bug in an extension! Hook ReCaptcha::confirmEdit failed to
return a value; should return true to continue hook processing or false
to abort.

Backtrace:

#0
/var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/EditPage.php(802):
wfRunHooks('EditFilter', Array)
#1
/var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/EditPage.php(2552):
EditPage->internalAttemptSave(false, false)
#2
/var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/EditPage.php(389):
EditPage->attemptSave()
#3
/var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/EditPage.php(271):
EditPage->edit()
#4
/var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/extensions/FCKeditor/FCKeditor.body.php(161):
EditPage->submit()
#5 [internal function]:
FCKeditor_MediaWiki->onCustomEditor(Object(Article), Object(User))
#6 /var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/Hooks.php(133):
call_user_func_array(Array, Array)
#7 /var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/Wiki.php(545):
wfRunHooks('CustomEditor', Array)
#8 /var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/includes/Wiki.php(70):
MediaWiki->performAction(Object(OutputPage), Object(Article),
Object(Title), Object(User), Object(WebRequest))
#9 /var/www/sites/wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php(117):
MediaWiki->performRequestForTitle(Object(Title), Object(Article),
Object(OutputPage), Object(User), Object(WebRequest))
#10 {main}

=====================

Can this be fixed? I just do not like spammers!

Cheers

Marc


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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

Hi,

Marc Paré wrote on 2011-02-09 11.37:
> Yikes! The ReCAPTCHA is not letting me edit the wiki. Here is the
> message it leaves me:

I have no clue what's wrong with the wiki. ConfirmToEdit doesn't seem to
kick in, but the Captcha installed according to the documentation does
block everyone. Argh.

I disabled the Captcha again, hoping that Manuel has an idea how to
solve the spam issue. :-)

Florian

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

Le 2011-02-09 06:21, Florian Effenberger a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Marc Paré wrote on 2011-02-09 11.37:
>> Yikes! The ReCAPTCHA is not letting me edit the wiki. Here is the
>> message it leaves me:
>
> I have no clue what's wrong with the wiki. ConfirmToEdit doesn't seem to
> kick in, but the Captcha installed according to the documentation does
> block everyone. Argh.
>
> I disabled the Captcha again, hoping that Manuel has an idea how to
> solve the spam issue. :-)
>
> Florian
>

Thanks. Hope the Captcha solves our problems.

BTW ... thanks for all of the help you give us.

Cheers

Marc


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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Michael Wheatland-2
On 2011-02-08 10:16 PM, Michael Wheatland wrote:
> I have used math captcha as you are suggesting. It doesn't work at
> all in my experience. Not sure if you are aware but computers are
> quite good at calculating math problems, usually better than humans.

Same goes for image captchas... they don't work (in my experience) either.

But as long as it is for registration only, I don't care so much...

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Florian Effenberger
Hi Flo, *,

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Florian Effenberger
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Volker Merschmann wrote on 2011-02-09 10.14:
>>
>> We have to act QUICK now, the number of incoming pages is increasing
>>
>> fast:http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=jobs&button=
>> And this is only for that keyword.
>>
>> Whoever has the right to install the reCapthcha should do it NOW.
>
> honestly, I don't get why the spam comes in, as confirm to edit is enabled,
> so users without a confirmed mail address should not be able to edit at all.

Well "should" is the right word here - but  none of the two spammers
mentioned here does have "emailconfirmed" set. In fact, very, very few
users do. (I don't for example, but I don't remember whether I had to
click a link in my email or something).

When using the "emailconfirmed" group in the user-list, it doesn't
even return the few (Admins and Bürokraten) that are listed as
emailconfirmed.
Again: No other users that Admins/Buerocrats are listed as
emailconfirmed, but not all Admins are emailconfirmed either (user
Reinsle is not for example).

So something is wrong here.

> Anyways, I've just installed the captcha as described on
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReCAPTCHA - Manuel, if you have any
> better idea, please let me know. :-)

As it apparently didn't work out, I start with the obvious: Did you
use correct recaptcha api keys for doucmentfoundation.org?

ciao
Christian

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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by marcpare4
Hi,

Marc Paré wrote on 2011-02-09 12.38:
> BTW ... thanks for all of the help you give us.

you're welcome. Hope we can things fixed soon. :)

Florian

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Re: CAPTCHA to subscribe to the wiki?

In reply to this post by Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
Hi,

Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2011-02-09 14.18:

> Well "should" is the right word here - but  none of the two spammers
> mentioned here does have "emailconfirmed" set. In fact, very, very few
> users do. (I don't for example, but I don't remember whether I had to
> click a link in my email or something).

hm... Volker Merschmann tested this out with a test user - without email
confirmation, this user could not edit any page. Is there maybe another
field that marks email confirmation, and the one you mentioned just
talks about the group membership? IIRC, Manuel told that the group
membership for emailconfirmed is determined on the fly, which is why we
don't see anything in the database.

> As it apparently didn't work out, I start with the obvious: Did you
> use correct recaptcha api keys for doucmentfoundation.org?

Yes.

Florian

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