CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

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Michael Meeks-5 Michael Meeks-5
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE


On Wed, 2014-04-23 at 10:24 +0200, Alex Thurgood wrote:
> The dev working on LO didn't like the StarOffice binary filter code

        Hated it with a passion is probably a better description than "didn't
like" - that code screwed us over and held us back very significantly.
It was a cut/paste of almost (which is part of the problem, the shared
code was really hard to change) the entirety of an ancient version of
the code-base, and a disaster in a box from so many aspects - whether
security, maintainability, binary download size, etc. etc.

>  so they got rid of it

        Whoot :-)

> There was nothing seriously broken about the binary filter code used to
> support those binary sd* file types

        I beg to differ =) That it mostly still worked doesn't mean it was not
fundamentally broken in many ways that are not immediately visible to
those not involved with the code particularly around its design and
architecture.

> Well, thank you for listening to my little rant for today, I'll crawl
> back under that rock I call LibreOffice QA, ROFLMAO.

        Heh - so, the solution to this problem is (IMNSHO) to work on the new
libreveng versions of these filters to (at least initially) rescue the
core data, and ultimately the full feature set in less code, and inside
a much cleaner and more maintainable infrastructure. Its not such
difficult work even - it doesn't even require re-building the main
LibreOffice code (just that particular smallish filter), and I'm sure
Fridrich & co. would love help there if newbie developers want to get
involved.

        ATB,

                Michael.

--
 [hidden email]  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot


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TomD TomD
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Brian Barker
Hi :)  
You can use Nabble to share the document.  Use any of the links in this email but it's better practice to go to the official LIbreOffice website and navigate through
"Get Help" - Nabble - Users - errr, and then find your thread, you might need to register at the site
when you start to write a reply there are various buttons above the "Message" box.  The last of these is "More" and that gives a small drop-down menu.  Top item is "Upload a file" which works roughly the same way as uploading an attachment to an email except that it puts a line of html code into the message.  You can move the whole line of code around.  


Macros are a problem.  

To move these to LibreOffice you need someone to rewrite the code.  This mailing list has been able to help a few people with this in the past but it's not really what we are here for.  You might need to find someone who has some coding skills elsewhere.  Luckily LibreOffice seems to be able to handle macros written in a few different popular languages.  Also once the code has been re-written to work in LibreOffice then it's unlikely to need to be re-written after that.  


Moving to a new version of MS Office, such as the 2007 or 2010 would also need the code to be re-written and it seems that each version of MS Office makes changes so that re-write would probably need to be re-written again in the future or for different versions of MS Office.  

One of the problems with the MS version of macros, is that macros have often been used as an attack vector.  So much so that newer versions of MS Office have a security pop-up alerting the user to possibly dangerous code being run on their machine and asking if they really trust the source of the macro.  


So, either way it looks like you need to get the macros re-written.  

However i get the feeling that your macro does something that might be better done by an Extension/Add-on/Plug-in and doing that might make it more robust.  Hopefully someone else on this mailing list might be able to give a better idea about the feasibility of this idea after seeing the code and/or what it does.  

Regards from
Tom :)  
Cuyahoga Falls Cuyahoga Falls
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by TomD
It's no secret that LO users tend to dislike M$. While I love LO, I've
tended to give M$ perhaps more benefit of the doubt than they deserve. I
still use Windows 7 on my laptop, although after many fits and starts, I
have finally succeeded in getting a true dual boot Ubuntu setup. I'm
using Ubuntu as much as I can to see just how much (or little) I still
need Windows.

But, last evening, M$ threw me a curveball that I found utterly
unacceptable. In addition to my laptop, I have a slightly older desktop
that runs Windows XP. In the last few says, the XP machine has been
acting *very* strangely. I've run RKill and virus scans, which have come
up empty. Then, I noticed a GREAT BIG RED "X" on my Security Essentials
icon. I clicked on it to read M$'s message: The OS is no longer
supported (which I knew) and, therefore, Microsoft Security Essentials
will no longer work properly (which I did not know). Ergo, my computer
is now considered "at risk." M$ was kind enough to provide a link to
"End of Support Guidance."

To play along, I clicked the link and was taken to a M$ website. The
website suggested that I upgrade to Windows 8.1 at a cost of between
$120 and $200 (personal vs. pro). But, it warned me that if my PC were
too old, then 8.1 wouldn't work. So, my other option? M$ suggests I buy
a new PC. The gall; buy a new PC because M$ chooses to no longer support
the OS? No thanks. They were also kind enough to provide a link where I
could check to see if my PC would run 8.1. Since I have no intention of
purchasing 8.1, I declined their offer to have my PC checked.

Of course, I have another option. Now that I'm growing more and more
comfortable with Ubuntu, I'll just install it on my desktop. While I
still have Windows 7 on my dual boot, I may go whole hog with the
desktop and completely blow off Windows... since M$ doesn't consider it
worth their time to support it anyway.

Now, I realize that the day will come when my Ubuntu 12.04LTS will no
longer be supported. But, there are a couple differences. First, Ubuntu
clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will expire, so I know
going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such warning when I
purchased my XP machine years ago. Second, when 12.04LTS support goes by
the wayside, Ubuntu will have another *free* alternative available; and
even if they don't, there's always Debian, Mint, Mint Debian, OpenSuse,
Puppy, Slackware, Fedora, Puppy, Slax, and on and on.

Sorry M$ (and Urmas). While I have tried to avoid the M$ rage I've read
on this and other lists, your latest consumer disrespect has thrown me
over to the dark side.

Give me penguins.

Virgil






On 04/22/2014 02:43 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> Not quite.  It may have changed the name of the formats it uses twice but
> OOXML (the .docX etc) has at least 4 different versions including 3
> different "transitional" versions and all are apparently quite different
> from the version they managed to get accredited as an ISO format.
>
> The older format (.doc etc) also seem to vary considerably between each
> different version of MS Office.
>
> MS Office 2010 or 2013 often has problems opening documents created in MS
> Office 2007.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 April 2014 19:06, Urmas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> "anne-ology"       MSFT has been/is making their system(s) incompatible
>> with others in
>>
>> order to reap a higher profit-margin  ;-(
>>
>> For the last 23 years Microsoft Office has changed its format TWICE.
>> Meanwhile, Libreoffice cannot open its own documents from 2001.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
>> unsubscribe/
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>>


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE


On 04/23/2014 07:57 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> It's no secret that LO users tend to dislike M$. While I love LO, I've
> tended to give M$ perhaps more benefit of the doubt than they deserve.
> I still use Windows 7 on my laptop, although after many fits and
> starts, I have finally succeeded in getting a true dual boot Ubuntu
> setup. I'm using Ubuntu as much as I can to see just how much (or
> little) I still need Windows.
>
> But, last evening, M$ threw me a curveball that I found utterly
> unacceptable. In addition to my laptop, I have a slightly older
> desktop that runs Windows XP. In the last few says, the XP machine has
> been acting *very* strangely. I've run RKill and virus scans, which
> have come up empty. Then, I noticed a GREAT BIG RED "X" on my Security
> Essentials icon. I clicked on it to read M$'s message: The OS is no
> longer supported (which I knew) and, therefore, Microsoft Security
> Essentials will no longer work properly (which I did not know). Ergo,
> my computer is now considered "at risk." M$ was kind enough to provide
> a link to "End of Support Guidance."
>
> To play along, I clicked the link and was taken to a M$ website. The
> website suggested that I upgrade to Windows 8.1 at a cost of between
> $120 and $200 (personal vs. pro). But, it warned me that if my PC were
> too old, then 8.1 wouldn't work. So, my other option? M$ suggests I
> buy a new PC. The gall; buy a new PC because M$ chooses to no longer
> support the OS? No thanks. They were also kind enough to provide a
> link where I could check to see if my PC would run 8.1. Since I have
> no intention of purchasing 8.1, I declined their offer to have my PC
> checked.
>
> Of course, I have another option. Now that I'm growing more and more
> comfortable with Ubuntu, I'll just install it on my desktop. While I
> still have Windows 7 on my dual boot, I may go whole hog with the
> desktop and completely blow off Windows... since M$ doesn't consider
> it worth their time to support it anyway.
>
> Now, I realize that the day will come when my Ubuntu 12.04LTS will no
> longer be supported. But, there are a couple differences. First,
> Ubuntu clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will expire,
> so I know going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such warning
> when I purchased my XP machine years ago. Second, when 12.04LTS
> support goes by the wayside, Ubuntu will have another *free*
> alternative available; and even if they don't, there's always Debian,
> Mint, Mint Debian, OpenSuse, Puppy, Slackware, Fedora, Puppy, Slax,
> and on and on.
>
> Sorry M$ (and Urmas). While I have tried to avoid the M$ rage I've
> read on this and other lists, your latest consumer disrespect has
> thrown me over to the dark side.
>
> Give me penguins.
>
> Virgil
>
+1

>
>
>
>
>
> On 04/22/2014 02:43 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Not quite.  It may have changed the name of the formats it uses twice
>> but
>> OOXML (the .docX etc) has at least 4 different versions including 3
>> different "transitional" versions and all are apparently quite different
>> from the version they managed to get accredited as an ISO format.
>>
>> The older format (.doc etc) also seem to vary considerably between each
>> different version of MS Office.
>>
>> MS Office 2010 or 2013 often has problems opening documents created
>> in MS
>> Office 2007.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 April 2014 19:06, Urmas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> "anne-ology"       MSFT has been/is making their system(s) incompatible
>>> with others in
>>>
>>> order to reap a higher profit-margin  ;-(
>>>
>>> For the last 23 years Microsoft Office has changed its format TWICE.
>>> Meanwhile, Libreoffice cannot open its own documents from 2001.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
>>> unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more:
>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>
>

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TomD TomD
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

Hi :)
There will be a lot of pranks and malware aimed at Xp users offering them
free upgrades and what-not.  Apparently it has already started.  Just
ignore them all.

Wrt "MS Security Essentials" best bet is to install AVG (apparently best of
the free anti-viruses (but according to who, right?)) or one of the many
other choices and after updating it and scanning your machine then
uninstall MS Essentials.  I just did this on the office machines last
night.


As far as your Xp machine goes i would install a dual-boot there now too
and just try to avoid using Xp as much as posible on it.

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS has 3 years worth of support remaining and was released 2
years ago in 2012.  The 14.04 LTS was released a couple of days ago so it
has only just started it's 5 years worth of support.  The 16.04 is due out
in 2016.

So, on your 12.04 you should get a notification letting you know you can
upgrade.  When/if you decline then you wont see it again for maybe a month,
when they release their first "Service Pack".

Generally i would go with Garvin's usual advice and hold off on upgrading
for a while.  I have just tried it on a couple of machines and it seems
kinda fine but i'm going to let them settle for a while before rolling it
out to all the rest.
Regards from
Tom :)





On 23 April 2014 13:42, Jay Lozier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 04/23/2014 07:57 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>
>> It's no secret that LO users tend to dislike M$. While I love LO, I've
>> tended to give M$ perhaps more benefit of the doubt than they deserve. I
>> still use Windows 7 on my laptop, although after many fits and starts, I
>> have finally succeeded in getting a true dual boot Ubuntu setup. I'm using
>> Ubuntu as much as I can to see just how much (or little) I still need
>> Windows.
>>
>> But, last evening, M$ threw me a curveball that I found utterly
>> unacceptable. In addition to my laptop, I have a slightly older desktop
>> that runs Windows XP. In the last few says, the XP machine has been acting
>> *very* strangely. I've run RKill and virus scans, which have come up empty.
>> Then, I noticed a GREAT BIG RED "X" on my Security Essentials icon. I
>> clicked on it to read M$'s message: The OS is no longer supported (which I
>> knew) and, therefore, Microsoft Security Essentials will no longer work
>> properly (which I did not know). Ergo, my computer is now considered "at
>> risk." M$ was kind enough to provide a link to "End of Support Guidance."
>>
>> To play along, I clicked the link and was taken to a M$ website. The
>> website suggested that I upgrade to Windows 8.1 at a cost of between $120
>> and $200 (personal vs. pro). But, it warned me that if my PC were too old,
>> then 8.1 wouldn't work. So, my other option? M$ suggests I buy a new PC.
>> The gall; buy a new PC because M$ chooses to no longer support the OS? No
>> thanks. They were also kind enough to provide a link where I could check to
>> see if my PC would run 8.1. Since I have no intention of purchasing 8.1, I
>> declined their offer to have my PC checked.
>>
>> Of course, I have another option. Now that I'm growing more and more
>> comfortable with Ubuntu, I'll just install it on my desktop. While I still
>> have Windows 7 on my dual boot, I may go whole hog with the desktop and
>> completely blow off Windows... since M$ doesn't consider it worth their
>> time to support it anyway.
>>
>> Now, I realize that the day will come when my Ubuntu 12.04LTS will no
>> longer be supported. But, there are a couple differences. First, Ubuntu
>> clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will expire, so I know
>> going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such warning when I purchased
>> my XP machine years ago. Second, when 12.04LTS support goes by the wayside,
>> Ubuntu will have another *free* alternative available; and even if they
>> don't, there's always Debian, Mint, Mint Debian, OpenSuse, Puppy,
>> Slackware, Fedora, Puppy, Slax, and on and on.
>>
>> Sorry M$ (and Urmas). While I have tried to avoid the M$ rage I've read
>> on this and other lists, your latest consumer disrespect has thrown me over
>> to the dark side.
>>
>> Give me penguins.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
>>  +1
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 04/22/2014 02:43 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>>
>>> Hi :)
>>> Not quite.  It may have changed the name of the formats it uses twice but
>>> OOXML (the .docX etc) has at least 4 different versions including 3
>>> different "transitional" versions and all are apparently quite different
>>> from the version they managed to get accredited as an ISO format.
>>>
>>> The older format (.doc etc) also seem to vary considerably between each
>>> different version of MS Office.
>>>
>>> MS Office 2010 or 2013 often has problems opening documents created in MS
>>> Office 2007.
>>> Regards from
>>> Tom :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 April 2014 19:06, Urmas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>  "anne-ology"       MSFT has been/is making their system(s) incompatible
>>>> with others in
>>>>
>>>> order to reap a higher profit-margin  ;-(
>>>>
>>>> For the last 23 years Microsoft Office has changed its format TWICE.
>>>> Meanwhile, Libreoffice cannot open its own documents from 2001.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
>>>> unsubscribe/
>>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/
>>>> Netiquette
>>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>>> deleted
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Jay Lozier
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-
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> deleted
>

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Brian Barker Brian Barker
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Re: Windows lifecycle [was: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE ...]

In reply to this post by Cuyahoga Falls
At 07:57 23/04/2014 -0400, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>... Ubuntu clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will
>expire, so I know going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such
>warning when I purchased my XP machine years ago.

That's odd. You may want to bookmark
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle for future
reference. Apparently XP was originally intended to expire at the end
of 2011 - ten years after its release - but this was postponed in
2007 to this month. So whenever you purchased it, you would have
expected expiration either now or much sooner.

(Er, no: I am not taking sides. But I do like to see arguments being
based on evidence.)

Brian Barker


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Windows lifecycle [was: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE ...]

In reply to this post by Cuyahoga Falls

On 04/23/2014 09:36 AM, Brian Barker wrote:

> At 07:57 23/04/2014 -0400, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> ... Ubuntu clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will
>> expire, so I know going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such
>> warning when I purchased my XP machine years ago.
>
> That's odd. You may want to bookmark
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle for future
> reference. Apparently XP was originally intended to expire at the end
> of 2011 - ten years after its release - but this was postponed in 2007
> to this month. So whenever you purchased it, you would have expected
> expiration either now or much sooner.
>
> (Er, no: I am not taking sides. But I do like to see arguments being
> based on evidence.)
>
> Brian Barker
>
I think the real point is the MS is not providing a reasonable upgrade
for many users. Both in terms of cost and ease. Many with XP can not run
W8 at all and have three options: continue to use XP, replace the
computer which is still working, or replace the OS with a Linux distro.
Since most Linux distros are free, replacing XP with Linux is the
cheapest option and viable for many. Also, there is no direct upgrade
path from XP to W7 and I assume this is true for W8 also. Thus, XP has
to installed first then it is wiped out by the new OS which means all
the applications and data must be reinstalled (after first saving the
data).

Virgil noted he knew about the expiration of XP which is not the real issue.

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Windows lifecycle [was: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE ...]

Jay Lozier wrote:
> Also, there is no direct upgrade path from XP to W7 and I assume this
> is true for W8 also.

I run openSUSE Linux on my computers and have for several years.  It's
generally possible to to an upgrade as new versions come out.  I
recently upgraded my motherboard & hard drive (old drive was IDE and new
MB only supports SATA), as the old MB was getting slow.  I just copied
my system to the new drive and then moved to the new motherboard and it
works fine.  With Linux, drivers also tend to be supported much longer
than in Windows, so that old hardware will generally continue to work
just fine.  For example, I have an Epson scanner, which I bought several
years ago.  It worked with both Linux and XP.  However, while it still
works fine in Linux, I cannot use it with Windows 7, as the drivers are
not available for it.

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
Urmas wrote:
>> Yeah, that really a problem, especially since LO didn't exist back then.
>
> It was called StarOffice back then.

StarOffice became OpenOffice.  LibreOffice split off from OpenOffice
when Oracle took over.  IIRC, the formats that are no longer supported
are the ancient StarOffice ones.  LibreOffice still supports the
original OpenOffice sx* formats.


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Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Alex Thurgood
Alex Thurgood wrote:

> The dev working on LO didn't like the StarOffice binary filter code, so
> they got rid of it, simple as that - they certainly didn't care whether
> people who had started using the "original" product, the one that gave
> birth both to OOo and LO, over 10 years ago would still want that file
> format supported - "data guarantee" I hear you say ? Bah, humbug.
> Clearly a case of :"if you're not working on the codebase, we're not
> listening to you, lalalala, sticks fingers in ears..."
>
> There was nothing seriously broken about the binary filter code used to
> support those binary sd* file types, but it was a hefty chunk of code to
> get rid of from the code base, and met the goal of reducing "code clutter".
>
Hi Alex,

au contraire. There were a ton of things broken with the binary filter
code. Most importantly, it was a snapshot copy of loads of the
application and filter code (some 140 kLOC in total), left to rot &
unmaintained many years before LibreOffice started.

Also, for just the StarOffice 1.0-5.0 import functionality, it came at
a rather huge footprint to (every!) LibreOffice download (some 10MB or so
for the download, some 20MB or so per install).

That thing really was beyond hope, and IMO it would have been a very
non-smart investment to encourage developers to even keep it on life
support any longer. It's not that the project has infinite developer
resources, and there are many others things that need attention.

> Then the LO project had the gall to sign itself up to some document
> format project that will claim to support all those old document
> formats...hahaha, the irony of it all...
>
I miss the irony. Those filters pride themselves not to hold internal
copies of Corel Draw, Visio etc etc application code, but rather
provide clean, minimal, import-only filters. The door is wide open to
implement StarOffice binary format importers there. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Cuyahoga Falls
Hi.
A work colleague just tried Zorin (http://zorin-os.com/) as a
replacement on a laptop. Look and feel sooo similar to Win and uses
Ubuntu repositories. The download will run as a live disc to check out
all your hardware will work.
Worked well, a little fiddle with the wifi, but in all a good replacement.
Steve

On 2014-04-23 23:57, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> It's no secret that LO users tend to dislike M$. While I love LO, I've
> tended to give M$ perhaps more benefit of the doubt than they deserve.
> I still use Windows 7 on my laptop, although after many fits and
> starts, I have finally succeeded in getting a true dual boot Ubuntu
> setup. I'm using Ubuntu as much as I can to see just how much (or
> little) I still need Windows.
>
> But, last evening, M$ threw me a curveball that I found utterly
> unacceptable. In addition to my laptop, I have a slightly older
> desktop that runs Windows XP. In the last few says, the XP machine has
> been acting *very* strangely. I've run RKill and virus scans, which
> have come up empty. Then, I noticed a GREAT BIG RED "X" on my Security
> Essentials icon. I clicked on it to read M$'s message: The OS is no
> longer supported (which I knew) and, therefore, Microsoft Security
> Essentials will no longer work properly (which I did not know). Ergo,
> my computer is now considered "at risk." M$ was kind enough to provide
> a link to "End of Support Guidance."
>
> To play along, I clicked the link and was taken to a M$ website. The
> website suggested that I upgrade to Windows 8.1 at a cost of between
> $120 and $200 (personal vs. pro). But, it warned me that if my PC were
> too old, then 8.1 wouldn't work. So, my other option? M$ suggests I
> buy a new PC. The gall; buy a new PC because M$ chooses to no longer
> support the OS? No thanks. They were also kind enough to provide a
> link where I could check to see if my PC would run 8.1. Since I have
> no intention of purchasing 8.1, I declined their offer to have my PC
> checked.
>
> Of course, I have another option. Now that I'm growing more and more
> comfortable with Ubuntu, I'll just install it on my desktop. While I
> still have Windows 7 on my dual boot, I may go whole hog with the
> desktop and completely blow off Windows... since M$ doesn't consider
> it worth their time to support it anyway.
>
> Now, I realize that the day will come when my Ubuntu 12.04LTS will no
> longer be supported. But, there are a couple differences. First,
> Ubuntu clearly states on its website when 12.04 support will expire,
> so I know going in what I'm getting into. M$ gave me no such warning
> when I purchased my XP machine years ago. Second, when 12.04LTS
> support goes by the wayside, Ubuntu will have another *free*
> alternative available; and even if they don't, there's always Debian,
> Mint, Mint Debian, OpenSuse, Puppy, Slackware, Fedora, Puppy, Slax,
> and on and on.
>
> Sorry M$ (and Urmas). While I have tried to avoid the M$ rage I've
> read on this and other lists, your latest consumer disrespect has
> thrown me over to the dark side.
>
> Give me penguins.
>
> Virgil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 04/22/2014 02:43 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Not quite.  It may have changed the name of the formats it uses twice
>> but
>> OOXML (the .docX etc) has at least 4 different versions including 3
>> different "transitional" versions and all are apparently quite different
>> from the version they managed to get accredited as an ISO format.
>>
>> The older format (.doc etc) also seem to vary considerably between each
>> different version of MS Office.
>>
>> MS Office 2010 or 2013 often has problems opening documents created
>> in MS
>> Office 2007.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 April 2014 19:06, Urmas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> "anne-ology"       MSFT has been/is making their system(s) incompatible
>>> with others in
>>>
>>> order to reap a higher profit-margin  ;-(
>>>
>>> For the last 23 years Microsoft Office has changed its format TWICE.
>>> Meanwhile, Libreoffice cannot open its own documents from 2001.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>


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toki toki
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
On 4/22/2014 11:06 AM, Urmas wrote:

> For the last 23 years Microsoft Office has changed its format TWICE.

What you are missing is that there are file layout differences between
the various editions of the same version of MSO.
There are also file layout differences between the different versions of
MSO.
There are also file layout differences between the different
localizations of MSO.

IOW, in the last 23 years, more than 500 different file formats have
used one of three names that Microsoft uses for its Word file format
product.
That scenario is repeated for every item in the Microsoft Office Product
category.

jonathon








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toki toki
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Re: Windows lifecycle [was: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE ...]

In reply to this post by Cuyahoga Falls
On 4/23/2014 6:36 AM, Brian Barker wrote:

 >  So whenever you purchased it, you would have expected expiration
either now or much sooner.

That would be true if, and only if one of the following conditions is true:

* The vendor of the OP's system was one of the 6-nines that provides EOL
dates for both the hardware and software that they sell;
* The OP's job entails providing 7/24 hour support for Windows;

The typical end-user does not know that both hardware and software comes
with EOL dates, much less has any idea when those dates will occur.

jonathon




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Cuyahoga Falls Cuyahoga Falls
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Re: Windows lifecycle [was: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE ...]


On 04/23/2014 06:19 PM, Toki wrote:
>
> The typical end-user does not know that both hardware and software
> comes with EOL dates, much less has any idea when those dates will occur.
>
> jonathon
>

That was certainly true of this typical end-user.

Virgil

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Urmas D. Urmas D.
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by James Knott
"James Knott":

>  IIRC, the formats that are no longer supported
are the ancient StarOffice ones.

StarOffice 5.2 was released in 1998. If that is 'ancient' for you, you are
an idiot that should be kept out from developing office software.



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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

On 4/26/2014 11:12 AM, Urmas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> StarOffice 5.2 was released in 1998. If that is 'ancient' for you, you
> are an idiot that should be kept out from developing office software.

16 years? Yes, that is ANCIENT in computer/software terms, for both
hardware AND software.

If you think otherwise, you are an idiot that should be kept our from
developing office software, or even participating in email discussion lists.

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toki toki
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

On April 26, 2014 10:42:53 AM PDT, Tanstaafl  wrote:

>16 years? Yes, that is ANCIENT in computer/software terms, for both hardware AND software.

It might be old, but that does not mean "no longer used".

Ideally, the extension to import those file formats would have been released prior to ripping the code out of LibO.

Those that don't undertstand why sofware that is 15+ years old is still used, perhaps need to revisit why software shouldbe designed as if it will be used for the next century.

jonathon

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TomD TomD
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

Hi :)
I kinda gather that it is possible to develop new filters for the format,
perhaps as an Extension.  There just doesn't seem to have been much
interest in it.

Also it is still easily possible to get older versions of software that can
read it and convert.  Such older software not being vulnerable to many
threats that are out in the wild.
Regards from
Tom :)





On 26 April 2014 19:18, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On April 26, 2014 10:42:53 AM PDT, Tanstaafl  wrote:
>
> >16 years? Yes, that is ANCIENT in computer/software terms, for both
> hardware AND software.
>
> It might be old, but that does not mean "no longer used".
>
> Ideally, the extension to import those file formats would have been
> released prior to ripping the code out of LibO.
>
> Those that don't undertstand why sofware that is 15+ years old is still
> used, perhaps need to revisit why software shouldbe designed as if it will
> be used for the next century.
>
> jonathon
>
> --
> Your documents, your language, your way.
>
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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by toki
On 4/26/2014 2:18 PM, toki <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Those that don't undertstand why sofware that is 15+ years old is
> still used, perhaps need to revisit why software shouldbe designed as
> if it will be used for the next century.

No one said it wasn't used, and that is totally irrelevant to the
question being discussed.

We are talking about supporting old file FORMATS in MODERN software.

If you are still using Staroffice 5.2, then you have no problem opening
those old file formats.

The problem is with those who don't understand that sometimes it simply
is not practical to continue supporting LEGACY GARBAGE that is seriously
hampering both ongoing/long term maintenance and innovation.

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: CONVERTING A MICROSOFT TEMPLATE TO BE USED WITH LIBRE OFFICE

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
Urmas wrote:
> you are an idiot that should be kept out from developing office software.

Gee....  I didn't know I was developing office software.  Thanks for
letting me know.

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, things have changed a bit in the past
16 years.  Back then, there was still a lot of Windows 3.1 & DOS around,
among other things.  How much of anything still works from back then?
How many still run Word 6?  Back in the mid '90s, I was using Wordstar
2000 (and a bit of Word Perfect 5.2) at work and Describe at home.




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