Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

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Regina Henschel Regina Henschel
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Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

Hi all,

I have noticed
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/4993

I think, that this should not be done.
(1) If you insert a background (www-back) from the Gallery to a
Writer/Web document, it is always linked. Removing the source might
break old documents.
(2) If you insert a background as page background from the Gallery to a
Writer document, it is linked as default. Removing the source might
break old documents.
(3) If you will make a list with graphic bullets, it uses the bullets
from the Gallery. Users might have checked the option to link them.
Removing the source might break old documents.
(4) Currently the predefined list style sets use the bullets from the
Gallery. Unless the list styles are changed the bullets in the Gallery
should not be removed.
(5) Removing sounds make no sense at all. There are no new ones.
(6) The pictures "flower" and "apple" should remain, because it is very
handy to have common pictures, when you write documentations.

Kind regards
Regina
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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

Hi Regina,

thanks for your comments.

Concerning 1) and 2): I could not verify that. I just tried inserting an
image from the Gallery and saved the file, and it was embedded. Can you
explain how you did that?

3) Sure, some might have done that. But I guess they are very few. We
could then keep the images there forever.

4) You are right, they should not be removed as long as they are
accessible. I would suggest to remove the whole "Image bullets"
functionality. I don't see any use for them, they look so outdated.

5) Do we need sounds? As far as I know they have been accessible in the
Slide transition dialog (Impress). But who uses sounds for Slide
transitions nowadays?

6) How do you access these images? In which documentation? They are not
listed in the Gallery afaik.

Regards,
Samuel

Am 21.07.2013 14:02, schrieb Regina Henschel:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed
> https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/4993
>
> I think, that this should not be done.
> (1) If you insert a background (www-back) from the Gallery to a
> Writer/Web document, it is always linked. Removing the source might
> break old documents.
> (2) If you insert a background as page background from the Gallery to
> a Writer document, it is linked as default. Removing the source might
> break old documents.
> (3) If you will make a list with graphic bullets, it uses the bullets
> from the Gallery. Users might have checked the option to link them.
> Removing the source might break old documents.
> (4) Currently the predefined list style sets use the bullets from the
> Gallery. Unless the list styles are changed the bullets in the Gallery
> should not be removed.
> (5) Removing sounds make no sense at all. There are no new ones.
> (6) The pictures "flower" and "apple" should remain, because it is
> very handy to have common pictures, when you write documentations.
>
> Kind regards
> Regina
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

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bfoman bfoman
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Re: Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 wrote
4) You are right, they should not be removed as long as they are
accessible. I would suggest to remove the whole "Image bullets"
functionality. I don't see any use for them, they look so outdated.
5) Do we need sounds? As far as I know they have been accessible in the
Slide transition dialog (Impress). But who uses sounds for Slide
transitions nowadays?
Hi!
Why are you so keen to remove features and have another "ruler situation" described in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60858?
"Import and export of graphical bullets of numberings in the DOC, DOCX and RTF filters" is advertised LO 4.1 feature.
This is yet another thread about removing a feature x from LO codebase without proper research. If you don't use feature x, then it is your use case, others may be x-feature fanboys and fangirls.
Best regards.
Regina Henschel Regina Henschel
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Re: Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

In reply to this post by Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
Hi Samuel,

Samuel Mehrbrodt schrieb:
> Hi Regina,
>
> thanks for your comments.
>
> Concerning 1) and 2): I could not verify that. I just tried inserting an
> image from the Gallery and saved the file, and it was embedded. Can you
> explain how you did that?

(1) Start a new HTML document by File > New > HTML document.
Open Gallery, theme Backgrounds.
Right click a image, you get the items 'Insert' and 'Preview'.
Click 'Insert'. You get the items 'Copy' 'Link' and 'Background'
Click 'Background' and then 'Page'.

It is not possible to embed pictures in HTML (unless you transform to
base64), therefore they are always linked. This link is not listed in
Edit > Links, but you will see the source in Format > Page > Background.

(2) Start with a new Writer document, then do the same as in (1). The
only difference is, that you can break the link in Format > Page >
Background.

>
> 3) Sure, some might have done that. But I guess they are very few. We
> could then keep the images there forever.
>

But you need a way to migrate such documents, a HowTo in the release
notes for example.


> 4) You are right, they should not be removed as long as they are
> accessible. I would suggest to remove the whole "Image bullets"
> functionality. I don't see any use for them, they look so outdated.

Tastes differ.

Gallery bullets are not only used in lists, but also in charts for data
points. There the pictures are embedded, so old documents do not break.
But removing the graphics will reduce the ways users can format their
charts.

>
> 5) Do we need sounds? As far as I know they have been accessible in the
> Slide transition dialog (Impress). But who uses sounds for Slide
> transitions nowadays?

They are available at all places where you can insert something from the
Gallery.

Presentations are not only used in business, but for private slide shows
with vacation photos for example.

Or think of exercise in Primary schools. Young pupils surely like those
gimmicks.

>
> 6) How do you access these images? In which documentation? They are not
> listed in the Gallery afaik.

 From file, as other pictures.

I personally have used it in the Draw Guide. But I mean, when I teach
pupils using LibreOffice and speak about inserting pictures, I can say
to my pupils "open that folder" and all pupils will have the same picture.

Do you have sum up, how much KB you would gain by dropping the pictures
and how much by dropping the sounds?

Perhaps it can be a solution to pack the unwanted gallery themes into an
extension, so that they can be downloaded and installed on demand. But I
have never written such extension and can not say whether it is possible
at all.

Kind regards
Regina


> Am 21.07.2013 14:02, schrieb Regina Henschel:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have noticed
>> https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/4993
>>
>> I think, that this should not be done.
>> (1) If you insert a background (www-back) from the Gallery to a
>> Writer/Web document, it is always linked. Removing the source might
>> break old documents.
>> (2) If you insert a background as page background from the Gallery to
>> a Writer document, it is linked as default. Removing the source might
>> break old documents.
>> (3) If you will make a list with graphic bullets, it uses the bullets
>> from the Gallery. Users might have checked the option to link them.
>> Removing the source might break old documents.
>> (4) Currently the predefined list style sets use the bullets from the
>> Gallery. Unless the list styles are changed the bullets in the Gallery
>> should not be removed.
>> (5) Removing sounds make no sense at all. There are no new ones.
>> (6) The pictures "flower" and "apple" should remain, because it is
>> very handy to have common pictures, when you write documentations.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Regina
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreOffice mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
>

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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

In reply to this post by bfoman
Hi (real name missing),

I don't want to remove the import or export of this feature.
Also I have not yet removed anything. It's open for discussion.

Thanks
Samuel
Am 22.07.2013 21:38, schrieb bfoman:

> Hi!
> Why are you so keen to remove features and have another "ruler situation"
> described in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60858?
> "Import and export of graphical bullets of numberings in the DOC, DOCX and
> RTF filters" is advertised LO 4.1 feature.
> This is yet another thread about removing a feature x from LO codebase
> without proper research. If you don't use feature x, then it is your use
> case, others may be x-feature fanboys and fangirls.
> Best regards.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Comment-on-patch-Remove-old-outdated-gallery-images-and-sounds-tp4066477p4066715.html
> Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Comment on patch "Remove old outdated gallery images and sounds"

In reply to this post by Regina Henschel
Hi,

Am 22.07.2013 22:07, schrieb Regina Henschel:
> (1) Start a new HTML document by File > New > HTML document.
> Open Gallery, theme Backgrounds.
> Right click a image, you get the items 'Insert' and 'Preview'.
> Click 'Insert'. You get the items 'Copy' 'Link' and 'Background'
> Click 'Background' and then 'Page'.
>
> It is not possible to embed pictures in HTML (unless you transform to
> base64), therefore they are always linked. This link is not listed in
> Edit > Links, but you will see the source in Format > Page > Background.

Thanks for the explanation.
This sounds more like a bug to me, the image is linked to the user's
gallery folder. This would not even work across operating systems. I'll
create a bug report for that.

For the other issues, let's see what the UX people say. I wrote a mail
to the ux-advise list.

Thanks
Samuel
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