Controversial topics for the start center

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Laurent Lyaudet Laurent Lyaudet
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Controversial topics for the start center

Hi,

We just added a section Open Problems to the wiki for the start center:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center
So far we have 3 topics discussed:
- Sidebar positioning
- Icons or thumbnails
- Tabs with file type pickers

Please add to the wiki all pros and cons you can think about for these
topics.
We'll try to have definitive resolutions next week at the IRC chat.

Best regards,
    Laurent Lyaudet

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Jean-Francois Nifenecker Jean-Francois Nifenecker
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center

Le 25/11/2013 20:05, Laurent Lyaudet a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> We just added a section Open Problems to the wiki for the start center:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center
> So far we have 3 topics discussed:
> - Sidebar positioning
> - Icons or thumbnails
> - Tabs with file type pickers
>
> Please add to the wiki all pros and cons you can think about for these
> topics.
> We'll try to have definitive resolutions next week at the IRC chat.
>

to me, there's one more important topic wrt the start centre: naming the
captions. ASFAICT (from my daily work with 400+ in-house users), people
don't understand why the tabs or captions are labelled "Spreadsheet",
"Presentation", "Drawing" and so on. The users I'm talking about have a
hard time figuring a "Spreadsheet" is the type of document made using Calc.

Hence my suggestion: don't use such words as above and prefer the module
names. This is more explicit to the average John Doe and has the pro
that it is consistent with the OS start menu option names.

WRT Writer entry, named as "Document", I find that strange. As any file
is actually a document, the word "Text" would be much better, IMO. Of
course, the previous paragraph suggests that "Writer" is the word to
retain :)
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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center

Jean-Francois,

I've added your issue to the Open Problems issue on the Start Center Design wiki.  Please comment as needed there.

Stuart
Jean-Francois Nifenecker Jean-Francois Nifenecker
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center

Le 25/11/2013 23:12, V Stuart Foote a écrit :
>
> I've added your issue to the Open Problems issue on the  Start Center Design
> wiki <https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center>
> .  Please comment as needed there.
>

Thanks Stuart!

I wanted to add comments but that *§?&# wiki is evil: when saving,
there's a question that appears at the top and I didn't realize that
immediately. Now I'm stuck for a while as the system blocks new saving
attemps as potential spam :(
On a UI pov, this thing is badly designed, imo: the poster clicks on
"Save" at the bottom of the page, the question appears at the top and is
not made especially visible. It's very easy to overlook it and insist at
saving as I did too many times (how many will trigger the blocking is
untold). 2nd: the blocking duration is not shown and the user wonders
how long s-he'll have to wait until s-he can re-post.
Frustrating.

I wanted to add that to the 2nd column:
8< ---------------------------------------
Pros: (1) the average user can associate a module name (which s-he knows
well; eg: Calc) and a document type (which s-he knows less often; eg:
Spreadsheet); (2) the labels are consistent with the OS start menu
LibreOffice entries.
Cons: longer text.
--------------------------------------- >8

Thanks again,
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Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center

In reply to this post by Laurent Lyaudet
2013/11/25 Laurent Lyaudet <[hidden email]>

> Hi,
>
> We just added a section Open Problems to the wiki for the start center:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center
> So far we have 3 topics discussed:
> - Sidebar positioning
> - Icons or thumbnails
> - Tabs with file type pickers
>
> Please add to the wiki all pros and cons you can think about for these
> topics.
> We'll try to have definitive resolutions next week at the IRC chat.
>

Why I get impression that this Start Center is one step ahead and two steps
back?

In my opinion:
+ there should be "Open" and "Templates" icons. Without them, options are
invisible ("dead zone" for eyes)
+ there should be "Location" address bar.
+ every thumbnail should has gray background only if mouse cursor is over
document
+ user should can manage single document and whole list as well.
+ tabs are really nice feature if user works with many documents

And last but not least. I remove "new" prefix because other language than
English are not so simple and this short word will looks obscure e.g. in
Polish.


https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/e4/4.2_start_center.png

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mfraisse mfraisse
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center



Why I get impression that this Start Center is one step ahead and two steps
back?

True

In my opinion:
+ there should be "Open" and "Templates" icons. Without them, options are
invisible ("dead zone" for eyes)
+ there should be "Location" address bar.
+ every thumbnail should has gray background only if mouse cursor is over
document
+ user should can manage single document and whole list as well.
+ tabs are really nice feature if user works with many documents

And last but not least. I remove "new" prefix because other language than
English are not so simple and this short word will looks obscure e.g. in
Polish.


https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/e4/4.2_start_center.png

In my opinon (after this picture)
Tabs are redundant, they share their manes with the labels on the side bar

why not
1 click on the name to get the filtered list
1 click on the icon to get a new … whatever
or
1 click on the side bar item to get the filtered list
1 next click to get a new doc of the selected item, assuming you don't move the mouse because there is nothing to be found.

If It can help …
Michel

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Controversial topics for the start center

Hi Michel,

2013/11/26 <[hidden email]>

>
>
> Why I get impression that this Start Center is one step ahead and two steps
> back?
>
> True
>
> In my opinion:
> + there should be "Open" and "Templates" icons. Without them, options are
> invisible ("dead zone" for eyes)
> + there should be "Location" address bar.
> + every thumbnail should has gray background only if mouse cursor is over
> document
> + user should can manage single document and whole list as well.
> + tabs are really nice feature if user works with many documents
>
> And last but not least. I remove "new" prefix because other language than
> English are not so simple and this short word will looks obscure e.g. in
> Polish.
>
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/e4/4.2_start_center.png
>
> In my opinon (after this picture)
> Tabs are redundant, they share their manes with the labels on the side bar
>
> why not
> 1 click on the name to get the filtered list
> 1 click on the icon to get a new … whatever
> or
> 1 click on the side bar item to get the filtered list
> 1 next click to get a new doc of the selected item, assuming you don't
> move the mouse because there is nothing to be found.
>

I'm not sure that would be discoverable.
It's also better practice to have one button serve one function -- it's
less confusing.

>
> If It can help …
> Michel
>
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>

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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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RE: Controversial topics for the start center

In reply to this post by Laurent Lyaudet
Folks,

The LibreOffice Start Center has made the 4.2.0.0 beta cut, and has been implemented in the current beta1.  Little argument that it still requires additional design & UX-advise input for final 4.2.0 release form.

At the Design team IRC meeting last Sunday, Laurent L. and Miroslav (Mirek2) agreed for a need to take additional design input from the community -- Pro & Con format using the Design Whitebaord for the Start Center.   Laurent got it started, and I've expanded it to now be as comprehensive of all prior work on the Start Center as possible.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center

Please review the various meeting minuets,  mail-list discussions and other resources posted to the wiki.

Astron, Mirek2 , Laurent, Emir, Mateusz and many others have contributed greatly.  But as this design process needs to be finalized, at this point we need all well-argued inputs as to changes still  to the existing LODev 4.2.0.0beta1+ implementation consolidated into the Pro - Con comments on the Wiki for discussion at this Sunday's IRC Design meeting:  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings


Regards,

Stuart



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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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RE: Controversial topics for the start center

Le Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:34:18 +0000,
V Stuart Foote <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Folks,
>
> The LibreOffice Start Center has made the 4.2.0.0 beta cut, and has
> been implemented in the current beta1.  Little argument that it still
> requires additional design & UX-advise input for final 4.2.0 release
> form.
>
> At the Design team IRC meeting last Sunday, Laurent L. and Miroslav
> (Mirek2) agreed for a need to take additional design input from the
> community -- Pro & Con format using the Design Whitebaord for the
> Start Center.   Laurent got it started, and I've expanded it to now
> be as comprehensive of all prior work on the Start Center as possible.
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center
>
> Please review the various meeting minuets,  mail-list discussions and
> other resources posted to the wiki.
>
> Astron, Mirek2 , Laurent, Emir, Mateusz and many others have
> contributed greatly.  But as this design process needs to be
> finalized, at this point we need all well-argued inputs as to changes
> still  to the existing LODev 4.2.0.0beta1+ implementation
> consolidated into the Pro - Con comments on the Wiki for discussion
> at this Sunday's IRC Design meeting:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings

Well said Stuart!
Congrats for this great work and contributions should go to the Design
team. Thank you a lot folks!

Best,

Charles.

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Stuart
>
>
>



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