Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Hi friends,

From dialogs in the past I know that Ctrl+Enter triggers the default
button, often OK.
This is of course extremely convenient, especially in situations where
the 'o' is accelerator for one or more widgets beside the OK button.
This often is lacking now. Also I sometimes notice behavior as Alt+Enter
triggering the default button. Makes me mad and is inconvenient.

This of course all in a situation with GTK3.

I'm of course willing to file one or more bugs on this subject. But
before doing so: has there been some design decision, recommendation, or
is there something else that I should know in this area?

thanks!
Cor

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htietze htietze
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

How do you know that it is Ctrl+Enter? Typically, a dialog has a default button that is linked to Enter (and another one to cancel the operation linked to Escape). This is done by checking "Can default" and "Has default" in Glade. It would be very uncommon to assign any other key combination to it and I'd assume the Ctrl key is just ignored here.

(The default is not set to ok when the dialog has potential hazardous results like "Do you want to wipe all data <Yes/_No_>".)

On 13.05.19 15:57, Cor Nouws wrote:

> Hi friends,
>
> From dialogs in the past I know that Ctrl+Enter triggers the default
> button, often OK.
> This is of course extremely convenient, especially in situations where
> the 'o' is accelerator for one or more widgets beside the OK button.
> This often is lacking now. Also I sometimes notice behavior as Alt+Enter
> triggering the default button. Makes me mad and is inconvenient.
>
> This of course all in a situation with GTK3.
>
> I'm of course willing to file one or more bugs on this subject. But
> before doing so: has there been some design decision, recommendation, or
> is there something else that I should know in this area?
>
> thanks!
> Cor
>

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Dr. Heiko Tietze
UX designer
Tel. +49 (0)179/1268509


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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Hi Heiko,

Heiko Tietze wrote on 5/13/19 4:10 PM:
> How do you know that it is Ctrl+Enter?

Experience. Found that out in the situation where Enter does not work
(e.g. Edit fields, but there must be more).

> Typically, a dialog has a default button that is linked to Enter (and
> another one to cancel the operation linked to Escape).

I know. Would be great if that alone worked in the dialogs where it
should be possible. Which is not the case. And then Ctrl+Enter doesn't
work either.
Maybe it is not the default button, but the Close/OK button.

> This is done by checking "Can default"
> and "Has default" in Glade. It would be very uncommon to assign any
> other key combination to it and I'd assume the Ctrl key is just
> ignored here.

I explained the situations where it's different.
And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize dlg.

> (The default is not set to ok when the dialog has potential hazardous
> results like "Do you want to wipe all data <Yes/_No_>".)

Makes sense of course.

Ciao - Cor

> On 13.05.19 15:57, Cor Nouws wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>>
>> From dialogs in the past I know that Ctrl+Enter triggers the
>> default button, often OK. This is of course extremely convenient,
>> especially in situations where the 'o' is accelerator for one or
>> more widgets beside the OK button. This often is lacking now. Also
>> I sometimes notice behavior as Alt+Enter triggering the default
>> button. Makes me mad and is inconvenient.
>>
>> This of course all in a situation with GTK3.
>>
>> I'm of course willing to file one or more bugs on this subject.
>> But before doing so: has there been some design decision,
>> recommendation, or is there something else that I should know in
>> this area?
>>
>> thanks! Cor
>>
>


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Cor Nouws
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Gerhard Weydt Gerhard Weydt
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Hi Cor,

Am 13.05.2019 um 16:22 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Hi Heiko,
>
> Heiko Tietze wrote on 5/13/19 4:10 PM:
...
>> This is done by checking "Can default"
>> and "Has default" in Glade. It would be very uncommon to assign any
>> other key combination to it and I'd assume the Ctrl key is just
>> ignored here.
> I explained the situations where it's different.
> And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize dlg.
>
But Enter works well for Macros -> Organise Macros and Macros ->
Organise Dialogs! So why do you say it's different?

Gerhard

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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Hi Gerhard,

Gerhard Weydt wrote on 5/13/19 5:20 PM:

>> I explained the situations where it's different.
>> And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize
>> dlg.
>>
> But Enter works well for Macros -> Organise Macros and Macros ->
> Organise Dialogs! So why do you say it's different?

I stumbled over it, with the dlg Basic Macro Organiser, tab Libraries,
having the focus on Import. Of course hitting Alt+Enter was not what
intended to do, but since I did, I was suprised. Now it looks, as if is
in more situations. But for sure not always.

E.g.:
- Alt+F12: Enter, Ctr+Enter, Alt+Enter all close (OK)
- Calc, Format Cells (Ctrl+1): Enter closes (OK), but Ctr+Enter,
Alt+Enter do nothing.

Ultimate utter confusion..
Heiko: help :)

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Gerhard Weydt Gerhard Weydt
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Hi Cor,

your examples are not completely correct: In the cases of Alt+F12 (tools
-> options -> user data) and Ctrl+1 (cell formatting) Enter triggers the
button that _has the focus_ - as it should do! Only Alt+Enter and
Ctrl+Enter do close the dialog (also for Alt+F12, in contrast to your
statement!), rgardless of which button has the focus. And the effect of
using these is in fact the same as using OK.
But in the case of the Basic Macro Organiser, tab Libraries, we do not
know if Alt+Enter triggers the function of the default button, or if it
triggers Close or Cancel, because we cannot see any effect like with OK.
This too sparse evidence to see a pattern. And then you say yourself in
one of your mails "Maybe it is not the default button, but the Close/OK
button." , so even you seemed not to be sure when you answered Heiko,
although the two examples you provided later seem to point to the
default button.
So your examples do not provide evidence for your feeling of "ultimate
utter confusion".
If you know of a dialog where Enter does not trigger the button that has
the focus, then it will probably be an error and worth a filing a bug.
But for a key shortcut to work like the default button I do not know: if
the button has the focus, you don't need it, you have Enter then; and if
it hasn't, you do not see what the default button is, you only may
remember. And in most cases the default button is still active, because
you changed only the data in the fields, this is at least the case for
the examples you provided, even if I use the keyboard and not the mouse
to arrive at the fields I want to change, so Enter is sufficient then.
As a result, I for myself see no reason for introducing a general notion
of a key shortcut for the default button

Greetings

Gerhard


Am 14.05.2019 um 14:16 schrieb Cor Nouws:

> Hi Gerhard,
>
> Gerhard Weydt wrote on 5/13/19 5:20 PM:
>
>>> I explained the situations where it's different.
>>> And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize
>>> dlg.
>>>
>> But Enter works well for Macros -> Organise Macros and Macros ->
>> Organise Dialogs! So why do you say it's different?
> I stumbled over it, with the dlg Basic Macro Organiser, tab Libraries,
> having the focus on Import. Of course hitting Alt+Enter was not what
> intended to do, but since I did, I was suprised. Now it looks, as if is
> in more situations. But for sure not always.
>
> E.g.:
> - Alt+F12: Enter, Ctr+Enter, Alt+Enter all close (OK)
> - Calc, Format Cells (Ctrl+1): Enter closes (OK), but Ctr+Enter,
> Alt+Enter do nothing.
>
> Ultimate utter confusion..
> Heiko: help :)
>


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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

Gerhard Weydt wrote on 5/15/19 12:12 PM:
> Hi Cor,
>
> your examples are not completely correct: In the cases of Alt+F12 (tools
> -> options -> user data) and Ctrl+1 (cell formatting) Enter triggers the
> button that _has the focus_ - as it should do! Only Alt+Enter and

I talk about master + gtk3. And tested well what I wrote.

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

In reply to this post by Gerhard Weydt
Hi Gerhardt,

Gerhard Weydt wrote on 5/15/19 12:12 PM:

> button that _has the focus_

> default button.

I've forgotten to say that those do not have to be the same.

Cor

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htietze htietze
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Re: Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
My take: make it simple. Enter closes the dialog when no other control occupies the focus. In that case I wouldn't implement any other key combination like ctrl or alt+enter to simulate the action. (And, of course, the alt+O = _Okay hotkey resp. alt+C for _Close at the macro organizer).

On 14.05.19 14:16, Cor Nouws wrote:

> Hi Gerhard,
>
> Gerhard Weydt wrote on 5/13/19 5:20 PM:
>
>>> I explained the situations where it's different.
>>> And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize
>>> dlg.
>>>
>> But Enter works well for Macros -> Organise Macros and Macros ->
>> Organise Dialogs! So why do you say it's different?
>
> I stumbled over it, with the dlg Basic Macro Organiser, tab Libraries,
> having the focus on Import. Of course hitting Alt+Enter was not what
> intended to do, but since I did, I was suprised. Now it looks, as if is
> in more situations. But for sure not always.
>
> E.g.:
> - Alt+F12: Enter, Ctr+Enter, Alt+Enter all close (OK)
> - Calc, Format Cells (Ctrl+1): Enter closes (OK), but Ctr+Enter,
> Alt+Enter do nothing.
>
> Ultimate utter confusion..
> Heiko: help :)
>

--
Dr. Heiko Tietze
UX designer
Tel. +49 (0)179/1268509


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