Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
59 messages Options
Next » 123
jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi All -

So I have been using spreadsheet for about 10 years to keep track of a
goal that I set my first year of college (reading a million pages before
I die). That being said, I keep adding things to it and it's becoming
more and more complicated. This week I decided I wanted to add yet
another thing - I want to track series that I read and for it to
generate the "next book in the series" after I complete a book. I think
I've figured out how to do this with spreadsheet using match and index
but I'm just debating if it's time for me to really sit down and create
a database with the info.

The file is located here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2kdRhc960qdQTN1TGQxUXhVX0k


Thoughts much appreciated - I have a bit of experience with Access and
am pretty good at "learning by doing" but don't want to change to
database just for the sake of changing. Kind of looking for pros and
cons. Thanks in advance!


Best,
Joel

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Mark LaPierre Mark LaPierre
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

On 08/06/14 23:46, Joel Madero wrote:

> Hi All -
>
> So I have been using spreadsheet for about 10 years to keep track of a
> goal that I set my first year of college (reading a million pages before
> I die). That being said, I keep adding things to it and it's becoming
> more and more complicated. This week I decided I wanted to add yet
> another thing - I want to track series that I read and for it to
> generate the "next book in the series" after I complete a book. I think
> I've figured out how to do this with spreadsheet using match and index
> but I'm just debating if it's time for me to really sit down and create
> a database with the info.
>
> The file is located here:
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2kdRhc960qdQTN1TGQxUXhVX0k
>
>
> Thoughts much appreciated - I have a bit of experience with Access and
> am pretty good at "learning by doing" but don't want to change to
> database just for the sake of changing. Kind of looking for pros and
> cons. Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Best,
> Joel
>

Hey Joel,

A database is great for generating reports from your data.  They are
also a great way to enforce data consistency which makes reporting so
much easier.

Databases are also a fine way to enforce business rules.  Stuff like not
allowing someone to enter a date for completing a process step before
the previous steps have their dates in place.

They are also great configuration management tools.  The database can
keep previous versions of a record safe for future reference.  Say you
have a widget.  The database records all the desired meta-data
concerning the design and creation of the widget.  Then it's discovered
that the widget has the wrong size hole in it.  The database can save
the original records and create a new record for the new revision.  A
database can record what revision of each widget was employed in a
certain application.

Generally there are thousands of widgets all in varying states of
revision and acceptance.  Databases are great for tracking change.  If
your data set changes over time then a database is a great way to track
that change.

Databases are also better at managing large data sets as you are finding
out with your current spreadsheets.

Have you read the BASE guide yet?  There's some really good database
design concepts illustrated there.  You really want to structure your
database in a way that you can expand and restructure the database later
when you decide to add features such as the "next in a series" concept
you mentioned above.

I've perused your Google docs spreadsheet.  I think it would be quite
easy to import that into a database.

--
    _
   °v°
  /(_)\
   ^ ^  Mark LaPierre
Registered Linux user No #267004
https://linuxcounter.net/
****

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

In reply to this post by jmadero
Just wanted to bump this to see if anyone has thoughts. Worst case I'm
going to just dive into Database and see what I can learn but I'm hoping to
get a little feedback before spending time which might be totally pointless
as I really don't have the time to just throw away ;) Thanks again in
advance!


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi All -
>
> So I have been using spreadsheet for about 10 years to keep track of a
> goal that I set my first year of college (reading a million pages before I
> die). That being said, I keep adding things to it and it's becoming more
> and more complicated. This week I decided I wanted to add yet another thing
> - I want to track series that I read and for it to generate the "next book
> in the series" after I complete a book. I think I've figured out how to do
> this with spreadsheet using match and index but I'm just debating if it's
> time for me to really sit down and create a database with the info.
>
> The file is located here: https://docs.google.com/file/
> d/0B2kdRhc960qdQTN1TGQxUXhVX0k
>
>
> Thoughts much appreciated - I have a bit of experience with Access and am
> pretty good at "learning by doing" but don't want to change to database
> just for the sake of changing. Kind of looking for pros and cons. Thanks in
> advance!
>
>
> Best,
> Joel
>



--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Joel,

Well, on the one hand, changing to a database does mean learning
databases, and putting in a certain amount of time to develop it,
although you should be able to pull in the data from the spreadsheet.
There's also no clear gain, if the spreadsheet works for you, what do
you gain by going to a database? And because databases are a little
more structured, it means changes are harder to make. On the other
hand, it does make things a little neater, and more formalised. Keeping
track of things may be easier, at least mentally.

The point at which one should switch from spreadsheet to database is
always hard to find. Personally, I would switch with this, but I
already know databases pretty well, so it would be that much easier for
me to set up, and I'd probably find it easier to make changes and add
functionality.

I find such large spreadsheets unwieldy, because you have to work with
the actual data, whereas databases you work with the data container,
and the database applies that to the actual data. Pulling up the
correct information is simply a matter of writing a simple (for me)
query, whereas in a spreadsheet you have to manually select the correct
cells, type in formula to exclude values, etc., etc.

So basically, if it works, why change it? But if you do change to a
database, you may end up with something that is neater and
cleaner, meaning that it is easier to find the information in all the
data, but maybe slightly harder to just change in an ad-hoc kind of
way, which itself can be both good and bad.

Just my thoughts. If you do go ahead with the database idea, feel free
to ping me with further questions when you get into it. I'd be glad to
help if I can find the time. I know databases pertty well, if not Base
so well.

Paul



On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 09:29:39 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just wanted to bump this to see if anyone has thoughts. Worst case I'm
> going to just dive into Database and see what I can learn but I'm
> hoping to get a little feedback before spending time which might be
> totally pointless as I really don't have the time to just throw
> away ;) Thanks again in advance!
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Joel Madero <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All -
> >
> > So I have been using spreadsheet for about 10 years to keep track
> > of a goal that I set my first year of college (reading a million
> > pages before I die). That being said, I keep adding things to it
> > and it's becoming more and more complicated. This week I decided I
> > wanted to add yet another thing
> > - I want to track series that I read and for it to generate the
> > "next book in the series" after I complete a book. I think I've
> > figured out how to do this with spreadsheet using match and index
> > but I'm just debating if it's time for me to really sit down and
> > create a database with the info.
> >
> > The file is located here: https://docs.google.com/file/
> > d/0B2kdRhc960qdQTN1TGQxUXhVX0k
> >
> >
> > Thoughts much appreciated - I have a bit of experience with Access
> > and am pretty good at "learning by doing" but don't want to change
> > to database just for the sake of changing. Kind of looking for pros
> > and cons. Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Joel
> >
>
>
>


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hey Paul,

First thanks for your thoughts :)


>
> Well, on the one hand, changing to a database does mean learning
> databases, and putting in a certain amount of time to develop it,
> although you should be able to pull in the data from the spreadsheet.
> There's also no clear gain, if the spreadsheet works for you, what do
> you gain by going to a database? And because databases are a little
> more structured, it means changes are harder to make. On the other
> hand, it does make things a little neater, and more formalised. Keeping
> track of things may be easier, at least mentally.
>

Neater is exactly what I'm aiming for. Currently it's kind of all over the
place and with me continuously adding things I am always debating where to
put things, how to organize, how to easily view it, etc.. etc... So neater
is a big + for me.

>
> The point at which one should switch from spreadsheet to database is
> always hard to find. Personally, I would switch with this, but I
> already know databases pretty well, so it would be that much easier for
> me to set up, and I'd probably find it easier to make changes and add
> functionality.
>
Sure - I like to learn though so if it's not too steep of a learning curve
(again I've used Access a little) then I think with some dedication I could
get it done.

>
> I find such large spreadsheets unwieldy, because you have to work with
> the actual data, whereas databases you work with the data container,
> and the database applies that to the actual data. Pulling up the
> correct information is simply a matter of writing a simple (for me)
> query, whereas in a spreadsheet you have to manually select the correct
> cells, type in formula to exclude values, etc., etc.
>

Unwieldy is where I'm at with this thing, and it's only getting worse ;)


>
> So basically, if it works, why change it? But if you do change to a
> database, you may end up with something that is neater and
> cleaner, meaning that it is easier to find the information in all the
> data, but maybe slightly harder to just change in an ad-hoc kind of
> way, which itself can be both good and bad.
>

It does indeed work and I'm pretty good with spreadsheets generally but -
well at my old job we had someone who had a 1.5 gig spreadsheet (and it was
absurd) and his logic was the same "it works" - I had a hard time not
saying "it works but it doesn't work RIGHT" - I'm starting to feel like my
spreadsheet doesn't work right (from functionality to organization to me
just being happy with it)

>
> Just my thoughts. If you do go ahead with the database idea, feel free
> to ping me with further questions when you get into it. I'd be glad to
> help if I can find the time. I know databases pertty well, if not Base
> so well.
>

I will most definitely take you up on this. I guess my first step would be
a table that just has:
UniqueID
Author
Book Title
Series Name

That sound right? I'm going to start after work today.


Best,
Joel

P.S. I won't lose functionality that I have in spreadsheet when
using database right? Basically everything you can do in a spreadsheet you
can accomplish in a database?
--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Joel,



On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 10:07:27 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Neater is exactly what I'm aiming for. Currently it's kind of all
> over the place and with me continuously adding things I am always
> debating where to put things, how to organize, how to easily view it,
> etc.. etc... So neater is a big + for me.
>
> Unwieldy is where I'm at with this thing, and it's only getting
> worse ;)
>
> It does indeed work and I'm pretty good with spreadsheets generally
> but - well at my old job we had someone who had a 1.5 gig spreadsheet
> (and it was absurd) and his logic was the same "it works" - I had a
> hard time not saying "it works but it doesn't work RIGHT" - I'm
> starting to feel like my spreadsheet doesn't work right (from
> functionality to organization to me just being happy with it)

Well, sounds like changing to a database is the way to go, then :)


> I will most definitely take you up on this. I guess my first step
> would be a table that just has:
> UniqueID
> Author
> Book Title
> Series Name
>
> That sound right? I'm going to start after work today.

Well, you have a few choices:

a) you could have one table for books read and one for the books still
to read, and when you've read a book you have the database transfer the
record from the one table to the other.

b) you could have a table for all books, and a flag in the table to
show when it's read

c) you could have a table for all books, and another table with your
rating and such details that gets a record added when you've read the
book

Unfortunately, such choices are the ones we need to make when designing
the database, and it can sometimes be hard to know which is the best
choice.

Your current spreadsheet looks a little like scenario (a) with the two
worksheets, but it's not the best idea for the database, I feel.
Scenario (c) avoids having to have nulls in the table, but the data will
only ever be used joined to the first table, so it essentially comes
down to the same thing. I lean towards scenario (b) myself.

As such, the table would be called Books, and have the following fields:

BookID (or UniqueID, or just ID)
Author
Title
SeriesName
-------------
DateRead
Rating
Pages
StoryOrCitations (perhaps this field should be split?)
CharacterOrDepth (perhaps this field should be split?)
Lessons
WritingStyle
Ending
Overall
Size
LocNum
Type

The fields above the line should not allow nulls, the ones below the
line should. Thank a little about which fields you actually use, I
think some of them look like they are only partly used, maybe you
changed your mind on some of them.

Mostly the fields should be either an integer, or a varchar, with one
date.

Adding books should be easy, if a book has not been read, everything
below the line will be a null, if the book has been read, everything
below the line should be not null, even if it is simply blank.

So the flag to tell if the book has been read would be if it has a date
that is not null.

That should be something to get started with.


> P.S. I won't lose functionality that I have in spreadsheet when
> using database right? Basically everything you can do in a
> spreadsheet you can accomplish in a database?

Well, you shouldn't lose any functionality, databases can do everything
you can in a spreadsheet, and more, it's just a question of how hard it
is. Mostly what you seem to be using the spreadsheet for is pretty
straightfoward stuff, so you should be able to get all that done in a
database without too much hassle.



Paul

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Again - and thanks!



>
> Well, you have a few choices:
>
> a) you could have one table for books read and one for the books still
> to read, and when you've read a book you have the database transfer the
> record from the one table to the other.
>
> b) you could have a table for all books, and a flag in the table to
> show when it's read
>
> c) you could have a table for all books, and another table with your
> rating and such details that gets a record added when you've read the
> book
>

So my thought was to have three tables -
*Table - BooksRead*
Author
Book
SeriesName (can allow Null because most books are not in a series)
Pages

*Table - Series*
SeriesName (not unique per row)
BookName (This + SeriesName would be unique)
Read (binary true/false auto set dependeing on if the book is in BooksRead
or not)

*Table - Rating*
Each category (ie, story, ending, character development, etc...)
Overall - auto calculated based on combo of other values
(here I'd love to have some kind of graphical representation of my ratings,
like stars, incremented by half star, 1-5 star total)

*So then what would be left is:*
Figuring out how to summarize my data like I do in the spreadsheet (pages
read per year, pages remaining, pages read per month, etc....)

Figuring out how to get some printout of "next book in series" - I suspect
some kind of query would work that checks in "Series" table and finds the
"next" book in a given series that does not have a true value in "Read"
field. In spreadsheet I was going to use match/index to accomplish this.

Other cool things like summarizing my opinions of particular authors, a
list of "want to read" books independent of the series. Possibly add genre
somewhere and a randomized "suggest a book" thing.

At some point I'd love to figure out how to pull series data from some
source so I don't have to manually add books that are in a series. Some
series have 50+ books, entering them all manually might be brutal ;)

Sound feasible?

Best,
Joel









--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Joel,


On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 10:53:12 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So my thought was to have three tables -
> *Table - BooksRead*
> Author
> Book
> SeriesName (can allow Null because most books are not in a series)
> Pages
>
> *Table - Series*
> SeriesName (not unique per row)
> BookName (This + SeriesName would be unique)
> Read (binary true/false auto set dependeing on if the book is in
> BooksRead or not)

This just duplicates information in the BooksRead table, not a good idea


> *Table - Rating*
> Each category (ie, story, ending, character development, etc...)
> Overall - auto calculated based on combo of other values
> (here I'd love to have some kind of graphical representation of my
> ratings, like stars, incremented by half star, 1-5 star total)

Calculating the overall value may be tricky, depending on how the other
fields are done, and almost impossible if you want to give descriptive
ratings like you have in places in the spreadsheet. Once you've gotten
it down to a number, though, showing stars instead of the number is
doable, I'm just not sure how easy in Base.

Also, with the above setup, you don't have anywhere to record books you
want to read (except in the series table, and so only books in a
series), like you have in the spreadsheet.


> *So then what would be left is:*
> Figuring out how to summarize my data like I do in the spreadsheet
> (pages read per year, pages remaining, pages read per month, etc....)

That would be some form of report, and once the data is in proper
tables, fairly easy to do.


> Figuring out how to get some printout of "next book in series" - I
> suspect some kind of query would work that checks in "Series" table
> and finds the "next" book in a given series that does not have a true
> value in "Read" field. In spreadsheet I was going to use match/index
> to accomplish this.

Something like select all the books in the series table that don't have
an entry in the read books table (going by name, author and series),
ordering that list by the number of the book in the series, and showing
only the first entry of the resulting list, should do it.

Maybe not a simple query, but pretty easy to whip up if you know a
little SQL.

> Other cool things like summarizing my opinions of particular authors,
> a list of "want to read" books independent of the series. Possibly
> add genre somewhere and a randomized "suggest a book" thing.

All easier to do in a database than a spreadhseet.


> At some point I'd love to figure out how to pull series data from some
> source so I don't have to manually add books that are in a series.
> Some series have 50+ books, entering them all manually might be
> brutal ;)

Hrm, that may require a little actual programming...


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Paul <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 10:53:12 -0700
> Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > So my thought was to have three tables -
> > *Table - BooksRead*
> > Author
> > Book
> > SeriesName (can allow Null because most books are not in a series)
> > Pages
> >
> > *Table - Series*
> > SeriesName (not unique per row)
> > BookName (This + SeriesName would be unique)
> > Read (binary true/false auto set dependeing on if the book is in
> > BooksRead or not)
>
> This just duplicates information in the BooksRead table, not a good idea
>

Not really seeing duplicated info here. I was thinking that I'd enter most
of my data in the BooksRead table - when I enter it would have a binary "is
this book in a series" - if I push yes then it would pop up a dialog for me
to enter the series info if it's not already in the series table and
possibly ask "do you want to enter all books in this series now?" so then
it would populate the series table after I enter the single book in
"BooksRead"

Best,
Joel



--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Joel,


On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 11:38:19 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Paul <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Joel,
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 10:53:12 -0700
> > Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > So my thought was to have three tables -
> > > *Table - BooksRead*
> > > Author
> > > Book
> > > SeriesName (can allow Null because most books are not in a series)
> > > Pages
> > >
> > > *Table - Series*
> > > SeriesName (not unique per row)
> > > BookName (This + SeriesName would be unique)
> > > Read (binary true/false auto set dependeing on if the book is in
> > > BooksRead or not)
> >
> > This just duplicates information in the BooksRead table, not a good
> > idea
> >
>
> Not really seeing duplicated info here. I was thinking that I'd enter
> most of my data in the BooksRead table - when I enter it would have a
> binary "is this book in a series" - if I push yes then it would pop
> up a dialog for me to enter the series info if it's not already in
> the series table and possibly ask "do you want to enter all books in
> this series now?" so then it would populate the series table after I
> enter the single book in "BooksRead"

Yes, but what would go into the Series table? SeriesName and BookName
are already in the BooksRead table, and the read flag just indicates
that it is in the BooksRead table.

The only time there wouldn't be duplication is if you entered books into
the series table that you hadn't read yet.

Paul

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

>
> Yes, but what would go into the Series table? SeriesName and BookName
> are already in the BooksRead table, and the read flag just indicates
> that it is in the BooksRead table.
>

So the Series Table would have all books in a series and this way I could
query the next book to be read in a series. So for an example:

Book Table:
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (...) SeriesName="Harry Potter"


Series Table:
Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (Read)
Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (Unread)
Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (Unread)
....

Then if I set up some kind of a report that told me the next book in the
series, when I query "Harry Potter" it would give me "Harry Potter and the
Chamber of Secrets" (and possibly list all other books in the series that
are not yet read, or list all books in the series, highlight the ones that
are unread, or some such thing)


What I don't want is my main table to include both read and "want to read"
books - I like keeping the "what I've read" completely separate as this is
what I'm most interested in for tracking purposes (to meet my goal) and
what not.

Best,
Joel
--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Joel,


On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 12:02:55 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > Yes, but what would go into the Series table? SeriesName and
> > BookName are already in the BooksRead table, and the read flag just
> > indicates that it is in the BooksRead table.
> >
>
> So the Series Table would have all books in a series and this way I
> could query the next book to be read in a series. So for an example:
>
> Book Table:
> Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (...) SeriesName="Harry Potter"
>
>
> Series Table:
> Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (Read)
> Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (Unread)
> Harry Potter | Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (Unread)
> ....

In this case, one book would be duplicated, and duplication is
usually a bad idea.

It would be better to put all the books into a single Books table.


> Then if I set up some kind of a report that told me the next book in
> the series, when I query "Harry Potter" it would give me "Harry
> Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" (and possibly list all other books
> in the series that are not yet read, or list all books in the series,
> highlight the ones that are unread, or some such thing)

This can still be done if they are all in a Books table.

> What I don't want is my main table to include both read and "want to
> read" books - I like keeping the "what I've read" completely separate
> as this is what I'm most interested in for tracking purposes (to meet
> my goal) and what not.

Well, this is a big deal in a spreadsheet, where all that data is just
smooshed together and you have trouble visually separating it, but in a
database this isn't actually a problem. By design, tables are meant to
hold lots of data like this, and you query just the data you want at
any given time. It is better to design it as one big table, and pull
out only the data you want to see, than to separate it into multiple
tables that hold duplicate data. With duplicate data you are not only
wasting storage space (perhaps very little in this case, but in
principle a bad thing), but also bringing in the possibility of that
data differing in the different locations in which it is stored,
and then which copy do you trust?

Note that any data can be corrupted, but with multiple copies of the
data in a database, differing programs or a bug in your program can
cause the data to differ.

Your scenario also doesn't account for non-series books that you
haven't read. If that is yet a third table, then things are getting
messy. So the best design is one table for books both read and unread,
including series information, but if you really want to separate them
out, then one table for read books, and one for unread books, both
including series information, is the best way to go, I think, with the
front-end transferring the books between the two tables when you've read
them.


Paul

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hey Paul,



> In this case, one book would be duplicated, and duplication is
> usually a bad idea.
>
> It would be better to put all the books into a single Books table.
>

I'm here to learn so I'll take your advice and do a single table.


>
> > Then if I set up some kind of a report that told me the next book in
> > the series, when I query "Harry Potter" it would give me "Harry
> > Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" (and possibly list all other books
> > in the series that are not yet read, or list all books in the series,
> > highlight the ones that are unread, or some such thing)
>
> This can still be done if they are all in a Books table.
>

+1


>
> > What I don't want is my main table to include both read and "want to
> > read" books - I like keeping the "what I've read" completely separate
> > as this is what I'm most interested in for tracking purposes (to meet
> > my goal) and what not.
>
> Well, this is a big deal in a spreadsheet, where all that data is just
> smooshed together and you have trouble visually separating it, but in a
> database this isn't actually a problem. By design, tables are meant to
> hold lots of data like this, and you query just the data you want at
> any given time. It is better to design it as one big table, and pull
> out only the data you want to see, than to separate it into multiple
> tables that hold duplicate data. With duplicate data you are not only
> wasting storage space (perhaps very little in this case, but in
> principle a bad thing), but also bringing in the possibility of that
> data differing in the different locations in which it is stored,
> and then which copy do you trust?
>

Sounds reasonable.

So questions (again thank you much for your guidance, I'm definitely
starting the process tonight):

when I make the form to enter new data (ie. a new read book) can it be
designed to where it searches the current books in Books table and then if,
and only if, it doesn't find a match (based on author + book title), it
starts a new form for me to enter new data?

For a series, is there a way for me to do like "enter a series" and then it
would prompt  ("how many books in this series") and when I put in 5, it
would then auto fill author + series name, so all I have to do is enter
book titles for the 5 books and all 5 would be added to the Books table?

Reading books twice - I don't do this often, but when I do, I expect the
pages to count twice. Best way to accomplish this is to have another field
called "Count" and then page count would be Page Count * Count (# of times
read)?

I'm getting excited about this as I've come up with another cool idea that
might be easy. I'm going to link books to the library, so for "next book in
series" would be a link that I could click and easily put on hold at the
library :) I think that this would be both awesome and relatively easy
(assuming the library has a standard method of searching which I suspect it
does).

Best,
Joel
--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Hi Mark -

So crazy, I found your email response on my phone but for the life of me I
can't find it in either gmail or thunderbird (makes me concerned I'm losing
emails :( )

That being said I figured I'd just reply to your comments. First thanks so
much for taking the time to respond. As you might have seen, Paul has
convinced me that a database is the way to go and I have some ideas as to
how I'll begin the process. All of the benefits you provided seem like
additional proof that my spreadsheet is no longer the best way to keep
track of my life time goal of a million pages.

What did you mean by "generally there are thousands of widgets all in
varying states of revision and acceptance." What are these widgets and how
do I find them?

For the last comment - I have not read the BASE guide. I know that as a
Linux user this is horrible for me to say but I'm really a "learn by doing
and failing and repeating" than a "read a book." This is for quite a few
reasons but the main one being that I don't have the time to read a book
where much of the info will be superfluous. I like pinging the list and
jumping in the IRC channel and asking specific questions and crossing my
fingers someone is nice enough to give me bite sized chunks of info that I
can work with. The most frustrating thing as a non Computer Science person
is jumping into a IRC chat (one in particular comes to mind) asking a
simple question and have someone say "read this 50 page manual" when
usually it's a 1 time thing that I need it for and usually it boils down to
a single command or a few at most that I need to run. Additionally, half
the time I don't understand the books so I have to do a ton of googling to
interpret what I'm reading. I'm a soon to be lawyer and I really just don't
have the time to spend reading a ton of documentation  (that being said, I
love our documentation team, and they do in fact do incredible work).


Thanks again!


Best,
Joel


On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey Paul,
>
>
>
>> In this case, one book would be duplicated, and duplication is
>> usually a bad idea.
>>
>> It would be better to put all the books into a single Books table.
>>
>
> I'm here to learn so I'll take your advice and do a single table.
>
>
>>
>> > Then if I set up some kind of a report that told me the next book in
>> > the series, when I query "Harry Potter" it would give me "Harry
>> > Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" (and possibly list all other books
>> > in the series that are not yet read, or list all books in the series,
>> > highlight the ones that are unread, or some such thing)
>>
>> This can still be done if they are all in a Books table.
>>
>
> +1
>
>
>>
>> > What I don't want is my main table to include both read and "want to
>> > read" books - I like keeping the "what I've read" completely separate
>> > as this is what I'm most interested in for tracking purposes (to meet
>> > my goal) and what not.
>>
>> Well, this is a big deal in a spreadsheet, where all that data is just
>> smooshed together and you have trouble visually separating it, but in a
>> database this isn't actually a problem. By design, tables are meant to
>> hold lots of data like this, and you query just the data you want at
>> any given time. It is better to design it as one big table, and pull
>> out only the data you want to see, than to separate it into multiple
>> tables that hold duplicate data. With duplicate data you are not only
>> wasting storage space (perhaps very little in this case, but in
>> principle a bad thing), but also bringing in the possibility of that
>> data differing in the different locations in which it is stored,
>> and then which copy do you trust?
>>
>
> Sounds reasonable.
>
> So questions (again thank you much for your guidance, I'm definitely
> starting the process tonight):
>
> when I make the form to enter new data (ie. a new read book) can it be
> designed to where it searches the current books in Books table and then if,
> and only if, it doesn't find a match (based on author + book title), it
> starts a new form for me to enter new data?
>
> For a series, is there a way for me to do like "enter a series" and then
> it would prompt  ("how many books in this series") and when I put in 5, it
> would then auto fill author + series name, so all I have to do is enter
> book titles for the 5 books and all 5 would be added to the Books table?
>
> Reading books twice - I don't do this often, but when I do, I expect the
> pages to count twice. Best way to accomplish this is to have another field
> called "Count" and then page count would be Page Count * Count (# of times
> read)?
>
> I'm getting excited about this as I've come up with another cool idea that
> might be easy. I'm going to link books to the library, so for "next book in
> series" would be a link that I could click and easily put on hold at the
> library :) I think that this would be both awesome and relatively easy
> (assuming the library has a standard method of searching which I suspect it
> does).
>
> Best,
> Joel
> --
> *Joel Madero*
> LibreOffice QA Volunteer
> [hidden email]
>
>


--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

In reply to this post by jmadero
Hi Joel,

In addition to the below, you'll need to think about what database you
want to use. With Base, you can use the built-in HSQLDB, but from all
reports you really don't want to do that. I'd suggest setting up
something like PostgreSQL or MariaDB on your machine, and using that
with Base as the frontend.

I'm not sure how much you know about this stuff or how closely you've
been following the discussions on this list regarding Base database
backends, but it isn't really that hard from what I gather, and it's
best to start off with a good setup, although you can opt to start off
simply with the builtin backend and migrate later, but that will mean a
little more work down the line.

On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:04:18 -0700
Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> when I make the form to enter new data (ie. a new read book) can it be
> designed to where it searches the current books in Books table and
> then if, and only if, it doesn't find a match (based on author + book
> title), it starts a new form for me to enter new data?

This probably requires a macro in Base, so I'm not sure exactly how
complicated this will get, but yes, it should be able to do this. With
constraints on the database (like a unique key on the author and
title) it should prevent you actually entering duplicate data (barring
a misspelling), but you of course want to know about that situation
before filling in the whole form, so probably a macro, or a button to
check the table for the book, before you continue filling in the form.

It should also be easy enough to make a search screen to find books in
the table, which is probably something you want anyway. So you could do
this before entering books that might already be in there, but that is
then a two step process, instead of the more straightforward process as
described above, although probably slightly simpler to set up.

This is something I would leave out for now, just get it working first,
then add these sorts of helpful things once the basic design is working.


> For a series, is there a way for me to do like "enter a series" and
> then it would prompt  ("how many books in this series") and when I
> put in 5, it would then auto fill author + series name, so all I have
> to do is enter book titles for the 5 books and all 5 would be added
> to the Books table?

This should be doable. I'm not sure exactly how to do it in Base, but it
is probably simplest with something like two entry forms, one that
just enters a single book, and one that takes an author and series name,
but a list of titles. Or maybe just a button on the entry form that says
"Add next in series", that would re-bring up the entry form with those
fields prepopulated.

Again, probably just get a single book entry screen going first, then
add or adapt it to do series.


> Reading books twice - I don't do this often, but when I do, I expect
> the pages to count twice. Best way to accomplish this is to have
> another field called "Count" and then page count would be Page Count
> * Count (# of times read)?

Best to call this something like ReadCount. You want your names to be
descriptive, without being horrendously long.

So the table would have a PageCount and a ReadCount, and any report
that you design would have a field called ReadPageCount, that would
show PageCount * ReadCount, but it wouldn't be stored in the database
(no need, and it would again be a case of duplication).


> I'm getting excited about this as I've come up with another cool idea
> that might be easy. I'm going to link books to the library, so for
> "next book in series" would be a link that I could click and easily
> put on hold at the library :) I think that this would be both awesome
> and relatively easy (assuming the library has a standard method of
> searching which I suspect it does).

You would need to have some way of interfacing with the library system,
but yes, assuming they have such a thing, it can be done. Again, I'm
unsure of the limits with Base, but it is probably doable through a
macro. This might be a bit advanced, I'm not sure. Best to leave it
till all the rest is working :)


Paul

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

m.a.riosv m.a.riosv
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

In reply to this post by jmadero
Hi Joel,

please don't think in reading the documentation like wasted time but an invested time. It can really help to learn the basis, which I'm sure will be useful for ever, specially what is learned about SQL. And IMO without at least a quick read not easy even to ask for help.

With the documentation there is a complete sample used in it Database used in Base Handbook 

There are also a good help and samples in the English and Spanish ApacheOO forum
Database examples
Ejemplos bases de datos.

Thanks Paul for their good advices.

Miguel Ángel.
jmadero jmadero
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database


On 08/08/2014 03:30 PM, m.a.riosv wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> please don't think in reading the documentation like wasted time but an
> invested time. It can really help to learn the basis, which I'm sure will be
> useful for ever, specially what is learned about SQL. And IMO without at
> least a quick read not easy even to ask for help.

Sure I truly didn't mean that. I mean I literally don't have the time
(as in I put in about 75-80 hour work weeks + I have a wife whom I try
to spend time with as much as possible + my additional LibreOffice
duties both in QA and otherwise. So for me, I just can't read all the
documentation for each component to learn every thing there is to learn
so that I can use 1% of it for one hobby project. Just not going to
happen. Please don't think I find reading documentation generally to be
a waste of time.


Best,
Joel


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Mark LaPierre Mark LaPierre
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

In reply to this post by Paul Steyn
On 08/08/14 16:23, Paul wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> In addition to the below, you'll need to think about what database you
> want to use. With Base, you can use the built-in HSQLDB, but from all
> reports you really don't want to do that. I'd suggest setting up
> something like PostgreSQL or MariaDB on your machine, and using that
> with Base as the frontend.
>
> I'm not sure how much you know about this stuff or how closely you've
> been following the discussions on this list regarding Base database
> backends, but it isn't really that hard from what I gather, and it's
> best to start off with a good setup, although you can opt to start off
> simply with the builtin backend and migrate later, but that will mean a
> little more work down the line.
>
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:04:18 -0700
> Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> when I make the form to enter new data (ie. a new read book) can it be
>> designed to where it searches the current books in Books table and
>> then if, and only if, it doesn't find a match (based on author + book
>> title), it starts a new form for me to enter new data?
>
> This probably requires a macro in Base, so I'm not sure exactly how
> complicated this will get, but yes, it should be able to do this. With
> constraints on the database (like a unique key on the author and
> title) it should prevent you actually entering duplicate data (barring
> a misspelling), but you of course want to know about that situation
> before filling in the whole form, so probably a macro, or a button to
> check the table for the book, before you continue filling in the form.
>
> It should also be easy enough to make a search screen to find books in
> the table, which is probably something you want anyway. So you could do
> this before entering books that might already be in there, but that is
> then a two step process, instead of the more straightforward process as
> described above, although probably slightly simpler to set up.
>
> This is something I would leave out for now, just get it working first,
> then add these sorts of helpful things once the basic design is working.
>
>
>> For a series, is there a way for me to do like "enter a series" and
>> then it would prompt  ("how many books in this series") and when I
>> put in 5, it would then auto fill author + series name, so all I have
>> to do is enter book titles for the 5 books and all 5 would be added
>> to the Books table?
>
> This should be doable. I'm not sure exactly how to do it in Base, but it
> is probably simplest with something like two entry forms, one that
> just enters a single book, and one that takes an author and series name,
> but a list of titles. Or maybe just a button on the entry form that says
> "Add next in series", that would re-bring up the entry form with those
> fields prepopulated.
>
> Again, probably just get a single book entry screen going first, then
> add or adapt it to do series.
>
>
>> Reading books twice - I don't do this often, but when I do, I expect
>> the pages to count twice. Best way to accomplish this is to have
>> another field called "Count" and then page count would be Page Count
>> * Count (# of times read)?
>
> Best to call this something like ReadCount. You want your names to be
> descriptive, without being horrendously long.
>
> So the table would have a PageCount and a ReadCount, and any report
> that you design would have a field called ReadPageCount, that would
> show PageCount * ReadCount, but it wouldn't be stored in the database
> (no need, and it would again be a case of duplication).
>
>
>> I'm getting excited about this as I've come up with another cool idea
>> that might be easy. I'm going to link books to the library, so for
>> "next book in series" would be a link that I could click and easily
>> put on hold at the library :) I think that this would be both awesome
>> and relatively easy (assuming the library has a standard method of
>> searching which I suspect it does).
>
> You would need to have some way of interfacing with the library system,
> but yes, assuming they have such a thing, it can be done. Again, I'm
> unsure of the limits with Base, but it is probably doable through a
> macro. This might be a bit advanced, I'm not sure. Best to leave it
> till all the rest is working :)
>
>
> Paul
>

The BASE file is actually a zip file that contains the individual files
for each table in the database.  If you use the built in HSQLDB while
you develop your database you can later open the BASE file in an archive
manager of your choosing and extract those tables into an external HSQLDB.

What I'm getting to here is that you don't have to set up a separate
back end DB while you are developing your database.  You can use local
tables for all that until you get the database to behave the way you
want it to.  Only then will you have to consider splitting your DB into
a front end that contains all the forms, reports, and Basic code, and a
back end that contains the tables that hold your data.

When you're ready to split your DB, probably months from now, I can find
the instructions for you.

--
    _
   °v°
  /(_)\
   ^ ^  Mark LaPierre
Registered Linux user No #267004
https://linuxcounter.net/
****

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
OogieM OogieM
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

In reply to this post by jmadero
I havne't used Base, but I have taken a very complex spreadsheet and designed an SQL database from it when it became unwieldy. Key things I'd suggest, more tables is not bad, in fact the more the better if it clearly separates data into one table. Do not duplicate data. If you have a field whose contents are duplicated then that really probably needs to be a separate table.

2 books I found invaluable for helping me design my system are

Beginning Database Design by Clare Churcher and Beginning SQL Queries also by Clare Churcher. They were the most readable and understandable of the lot.

If I were doing your system I'd do the following:
Book table
        Title
        number of pages
        Foreign key links to an authors table and a series table
        boolean read or not or else a link to a table read status see below
Authors
        Name
Series
        Name of series like Dragons of Pern or Harry Potter
Read status
        started
        finished
        wanted

Linking should be by query.

On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Joel Madero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just wanted to bump this to see if anyone has thoughts. Worst case I'm
> going to just dive into Database and see what I can learn but I'm hoping to
> get a little feedback before spending time which might be totally pointless
> as I really don't have the time to just throw away ;) Thanks again in
> advance!
>
>

Eugenie (Oogie) McGuire
Desert Weyr, LLC - Black Welsh Mountain Sheep http://www.desertweyr.com/ 
LambTracker - Open Source SW for Shepherds http://www.lambtracker.com
Paonia, CO USA


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Paul Steyn Paul Steyn
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Currently Using Spreadsheet for Personal Project - Thinking About Database

Really good suggestions!


On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 10:50:48 -0600
Oogie McGuire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do not duplicate data. If you have a field whose contents are
> duplicated then that really probably needs to be a separate table.

Yes, true. Note that if a field is duplicated, is suggests
consolidating into one table, but if the contents of a field are
duplicated, it suggests splitting it off into its own table.


> If I were doing your system I'd do the following:
> Book table
> Title
> number of pages
> Foreign key links to an authors table and a series table
> boolean read or not or else a link to a table read status see
> below
> Authors
> Name
> Series
> Name of series like Dragons of Pern or Harry Potter
> Read status
> started
> finished
> wanted

Having a separate table for Authors and Series is a good idea. I didn't
want to confuse the OP with a whole bunch of tables straight off the
bat, but you're dead right, it is probably best to get to grips with
this now, rather than need it later and not have it designed in.

And a status table allowing more than just read or unread is a good
idea too. It adds flexibility to the system.

This does make the system a little more complicated. You will have
more forms, more dropdowns on the book entry form, and will have to
remember to do things like add the authors before you add their books,
but this added complexity will pay off in terms of extra flexibility
later.

This is also really the big conceptual difference between a spreadsheet
and a database. In a spreadsheet you start just capturing a few books,
and just retype things like author names, and then you end up with lots
of books, and things start getting harder and harder to keep track of.
In a database you start off by separating everything out into different
bits, then combine them in the different ways you need them, and
everything is slightly more complicated (especially to begin with), but
actually easier to work with in the long run.

To Joel (the OP):
You'll need to read up on one-to-many and many-to-many relationships if
you aren't already familiar with them.

Some of the less used columns in you spreadsheet, like "Loc", I'm not
clear on what they're used for and where they should go, and rating
has been used in different ways, so again I'm not sure how you intend
to use that. You do kind of need to decide on one way and stick to it
throughout. An advantage of spreadsheets is that you can just do stuff
in that sort of ad-hoc manner as it seems appropriate to the individual
instance, but in databases, because of the extra structure, you need to
stick to one way of doing things. But that does make it more
consistant, and therefore easier to work with in the long run.


Paul

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Next » 123