[DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

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Aurélien Naldi Aurélien Naldi
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[DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

Hi,

I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice days,
but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas on
realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.

My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style should
not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting. To
address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace the
formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes). Some
of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that a
partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
my workflow in LibreOffice.

I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
know if I'm doing this wrong!
Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
the mailing list?

You can find a mockup here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fp2vqqmlj1k4msjx%2FLO_wireframe.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEUGdCeKHQ5g_FaNvqyCuIvAUSXEw>
Excuse my poor artistic skills!

PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
changes, but would need some guidance.


Best.

--
Aurélien Naldi

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Aurélien Naldi Aurélien Naldi
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Laurence Jeloudev <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Mockup link doesn't work.


It "works for me"! I wanted to avoid joining it to the message but here it
is.


On 14/06/2013, at 5:56 PM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice
> days,
> > but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas
> on
> > realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.
> >
> > My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
> > formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style
> should
> > not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting.
> To
> > address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace
> the
> > formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
> > properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes).
> Some
> > of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that
> a
> > partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
> > my workflow in LibreOffice.
> >
> > I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
> > know if I'm doing this wrong!
> > Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
> > the mailing list?
> >
> > You can find a mockup here:
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf Excuse my
> poor artistic skills!
>  >
> > PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
> > changes, but would need some guidance.
>

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lj lj
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

The link now works.



On 14/06/2013, at 6:14 PM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Laurence Jeloudev <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Mockup link doesn't work.
>
>
> It "works for me"! I wanted to avoid joining it to the message but here it
> is.
>
>
> On 14/06/2013, at 5:56 PM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice
>> days,
>>> but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas
>> on
>>> realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.
>>>
>>> My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
>>> formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style
>> should
>>> not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting.
>> To
>>> address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace
>> the
>>> formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
>>> properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes).
>> Some
>>> of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that
>> a
>>> partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
>>> my workflow in LibreOffice.
>>>
>>> I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
>>> know if I'm doing this wrong!
>>> Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
>>> the mailing list?
>>>
>>> You can find a mockup here:
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf Excuse my
>> poor artistic skills!
>>>
>>> PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
>>> changes, but would need some guidance.
>
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> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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Aurélien Naldi Aurélien Naldi
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

In reply to this post by Aurélien Naldi
Hi Mirek,

Thanks for the wiki page, If I can I will describe my proposal there as
well.
I think that I can join you on saturday.  If you see something missing from
the mockup that needs to be clarified before, please let me know.

For now I checked out the code from git, but it's not exactly easy to dive
in!

Best



On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Aurélien,
> Sorry for the late response.
>
> I agree that the current Style workflow isn't as simple or efficient as it
> could be.
>
> I resurrected an old whiteboard with a similar topic:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_management .
> Please tweak the scope according to what you would like to work on and add
> your proposal.
> We'll talk about the proposals next Saturday at 16:00 UTC on our weekly
> IRC chat [1] and try to agree on a tentative design. Do you think you could
> join us? If it's not a good time, we can reschedule.
>
> To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on our proposed
> EasyHack regarding styles :
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy to add the
> code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this message.)
>
> I'm really excited to have you onboard! :)
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice
>> days,
>> but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas
>> on
>> realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.
>>
>> My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
>> formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style should
>> not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting.
>> To
>> address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace the
>> formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
>> properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes). Some
>> of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that a
>> partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
>> my workflow in LibreOffice.
>>
>> I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
>> know if I'm doing this wrong!
>> Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
>> the mailing list?
>>
>> You can find a mockup here:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf<
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fp2vqqmlj1k4msjx%2FLO_wireframe.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEUGdCeKHQ5g_FaNvqyCuIvAUSXEw
>> >
>>
>> Excuse my poor artistic skills!
>>
>> PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
>> changes, but would need some guidance.
>>
>>
>> Best.
>>
>> --
>> Aurélien Naldi
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
> [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings
>



--
Aurélien Naldi

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Oskar Olsson Oskar Olsson
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

I've made some mockups for a color picker, color definer, colorization
icons for toolbar, format window layout, format toolbar layout and a new
icon for the wiki. I'm not sure where to put the things so currently they
are resting here: wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Mipmap

I hope to join in the meetin tomorrow (?) but I have to work during the day.
/Oskar

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Jan Holesovsky Jan Holesovsky
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

In reply to this post by Aurélien Naldi
Hi Aurelien,

Aurélien Naldi píše v Čt 27. 06. 2013 v 09:30 +0200:


> Thanks for the wiki page, If I can I will describe my proposal there
> as well.
>
> I think that I can join you on saturday.  If you see something missing
> from the mockup that needs to be clarified before, please let me know.
[...]
>        
>         To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on
>         our proposed EasyHack regarding styles :
>         https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy
>         to add the code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this
>         message.)

I've added the code pointers there, I hope that'll help you to get
started :-)  Unfortunately I'm just leaving for vacation for a week, so
cannot help you in case you get stuck - but please do appear on the
#libreoffice-dev IRC channel on irc.freenode.net, I believe there will
be enough people to help you!

All the best,
Kendy



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Aurélien Naldi Aurélien Naldi
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

In reply to this post by Aurélien Naldi
On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I resurrected an old whiteboard with a similar topic:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_management .
> Please tweak the scope according to what you would like to work on and add
> your proposal.
> We'll talk about the proposals next Saturday at 16:00 UTC on our weekly
> IRC chat [1] and try to agree on a tentative design. Do you think you could
> join us? If it's not a good time, we can reschedule.
>

Hi Mirek,

I added a brief description of my proposal there and I plan to join you on
IRC tonight.



> To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on our proposed
> EasyHack regarding styles :
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy to add the
> code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this message.)
>


The code pointer sure help a lot! I'll probably want to use the same class
for the character style selector.


Best

--
Aurélien Naldi


On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Aurélien,
> Sorry for the late response.
>
> I agree that the current Style workflow isn't as simple or efficient as it
> could be.
>
> I resurrected an old whiteboard with a similar topic:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_management .
> Please tweak the scope according to what you would like to work on and add
> your proposal.
> We'll talk about the proposals next Saturday at 16:00 UTC on our weekly
> IRC chat [1] and try to agree on a tentative design. Do you think you could
> join us? If it's not a good time, we can reschedule.
>
> To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on our proposed
> EasyHack regarding styles :
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy to add the
> code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this message.)
>
> I'm really excited to have you onboard! :)
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice
>> days,
>> but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas
>> on
>> realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.
>>
>> My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
>> formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style should
>> not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting.
>> To
>> address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace the
>> formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
>> properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes). Some
>> of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that a
>> partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
>> my workflow in LibreOffice.
>>
>> I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
>> know if I'm doing this wrong!
>> Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
>> the mailing list?
>>
>> You can find a mockup here:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf<
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fp2vqqmlj1k4msjx%2FLO_wireframe.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEUGdCeKHQ5g_FaNvqyCuIvAUSXEw
>> >
>>
>> Excuse my poor artistic skills!
>>
>> PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
>> changes, but would need some guidance.
>>
>>
>> Best.
>>
>> --
>> Aurélien Naldi
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
> [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings
>



--
Aurélien Naldi

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: [DISCUSS] Proposal to improve style workflow in writer

Hi Aurélien,
The whiteboard for the popover is up:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_Popover.
Feel free to tweak the scope based on what you're willing to do, then add a
proposal section alike to the one at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Whiteboard_Templateand
change the status to "Call for Proposals". Then you can add your own
proposal(s).

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Aurélien Naldi
<[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I resurrected an old whiteboard with a similar topic:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_management. Please tweak the scope according to what you would like to work on and
>> add your proposal.
>> We'll talk about the proposals next Saturday at 16:00 UTC on our weekly
>> IRC chat [1] and try to agree on a tentative design. Do you think you could
>> join us? If it's not a good time, we can reschedule.
>>
>
> Hi Mirek,
>
> I added a brief description of my proposal there and I plan to join you on
> IRC tonight.
>
>
>
>> To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on our proposed
>> EasyHack regarding styles :
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy to add
>> the code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this message.)
>>
>
>
> The code pointer sure help a lot! I'll probably want to use the same class
> for the character style selector.
>
>
> Best
>
> --
> Aurélien Naldi
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Mirek M. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Aurélien,
>> Sorry for the late response.
>>
>> I agree that the current Style workflow isn't as simple or efficient as
>> it could be.
>>
>> I resurrected an old whiteboard with a similar topic:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Style_management. Please tweak the scope according to what you would like to work on and
>> add your proposal.
>> We'll talk about the proposals next Saturday at 16:00 UTC on our weekly
>> IRC chat [1] and try to agree on a tentative design. Do you think you could
>> join us? If it's not a good time, we can reschedule.
>>
>> To get familiar with the LibO code, you could try working on our proposed
>> EasyHack regarding styles :
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62081 . Ask Kendy to add
>> the code pointers for that. (I'm ccing him on this message.)
>>
>> I'm really excited to have you onboard! :)
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Aurélien Naldi <[hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have been an irregular user of LibreOffice since the old staroffice
>>> days,
>>> but also a LaTeX user for longer texts. I would like to share some ideas
>>> on
>>> realistic improvements for people who want to use styles exclusively.
>>>
>>> My main gripe with the current GUI is that everything encourages ad-hoc
>>> formatting instead of reusing styling. I feel that the use of style
>>> should
>>> not require using the crowded style dialogs more than ad-hoc formatting.
>>> To
>>> address this, I propose two main changes: a "style toolbar" to replace
>>> the
>>> formatting toolbar, and a redesign of the stylist to let us edit common
>>> properties from the stylist directly (along with some other changes).
>>> Some
>>> of the proposed things may not be easy to implement now, but I feel that
>>> a
>>> partial implementation would not be problematic and would greatly improve
>>> my workflow in LibreOffice.
>>>
>>> I'm also a newcomer to this mailing list or to design work, thus let me
>>> know if I'm doing this wrong!
>>> Should I open an enhancement request instead of (or in addition to) using
>>> the mailing list?
>>>
>>> You can find a mockup here:
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2vqqmlj1k4msjx/LO_wireframe.pdf<
>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fp2vqqmlj1k4msjx%2FLO_wireframe.pdf&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEUGdCeKHQ5g_FaNvqyCuIvAUSXEw
>>> >
>>>
>>> Excuse my poor artistic skills!
>>>
>>> PS: I'm willing to contribute code if there is interest in this kind of
>>> changes, but would need some guidance.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aurélien Naldi
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems?
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Aurélien Naldi
>

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