Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK


On 02/25/2014 05:54 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Makes perfect sense to me. I do think that software changes are often
> made as a result of the file formats rather than the programs themselves.
>
> A few years ago, most lawyers in the U.S. used WordPerfect, and they
> really liked it. It had some features that were very suitable for the
> law office. However, most of their corporate clients were using Word.
> (Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft). Over time, law offices
> began migrating to Word, not because they liked the program better,
> but because they needed file compatibility with their clients. Now,
> WordPerfect is all but an afterthought.
>
> I formerly worked in a local government law department. For years,
> each department was permitted to select its own programs. So, we used
> WordPerfect's office suite, while the finance department (which
> preferred Excel) used MS Office. The IT department got tired of
> supporting multiple office suites and decided the government offices
> all needed to standardize on one program. Since the IT department was
> under the authority of the finance department, you can guess which
> office suite was chosen. Despite our protestations, we were overruled
> and converted to Office. Even then, I would use OpenOffice when I
> didn't need to share files with others, just to assert my freedom.
>
> Virgil
>
If ODF formats were used like the UK wants then different groups can use
whatever program works best for them. As you noted US lawyers preferred
WordPerfect while accountants preferred Excel. This competition is what
MS fears because without vendor lock-in one can spend money one wants.


<snip>

> -----Original Message----- From: Jay Lozier
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:46 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in
> the UK
>
>
> On 02/25/2014 01:21 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> I haven't followed the entirety of this thread, but I live in a world
>> which is (sadly perhaps) dominated by M$.
>>
>> Here in the U.S., Asus is running commercials about how good their
>> netbooks are because they run "Office" (as opposed to Google Apps
>> online with a Chromebook). In other words, they portray *real*
>> computer users as using *real* programs like M$ Office. Now, I don't
>> particularly like the commercials, but they indicate to me how
>> mainstream M$ Office has become, almost to the point of blending
>> brand names with product times (Word is to word processing as
>> "Kleenex" is to facial tissues.) Again, I don't like it, but it's a
>> reality I live with.
>>
>> I often have to write documents that are sent to colleagues who are
>> using M$. What I write *must* be readable by their chosen program.
>> They are not going to listen to an LO evangelist proclaiming the
>> gospel of ODF. Heck, half of them can't even figure out how to put
>> page numbers on the bottom of their pages, let alone learn an
>> entirely new office suite with totally new concepts (page styles
>> anyone?).
>>
>> For most of my word processing work, I save my documents as .ODT.
>> When I need to share with an M$ colleague, I convert it to .DOC
>> (rather than insisting that they use LO, which they simply won't do).
>> It *generally* works okay, but numbered lists and bulleted lists get
>> messed up a bit, just because of the different ways the two programs
>> deal with those things.
>>
>> Having used PCs since my first Commodore 64 thirty years ago, I have
>> long given up on any hope of seeing a true "standard" file format.
>> Different programs perform tasks differently, and those differences
>> are reflected in the information that gets stored in the native file
>> formats. So, I don't see any hope of a true standard until all
>> programs work the same way. I had great hope for RTF, but that
>> bombed. Load an RTF file into four different word processors, and
>> you'll see four different documents.
>>
>> Virgil
>>
> I think the issue is MS claiming that using ODF formats as defaults will
> somehow break MSO. As I understand the issue, the UK government is
> specifying the file formats not the applications. Since they are
> proposing using ODF formats this levels the playing field and allows any
> application to compete on value not just LO or AOO. This includes other
> commercial products also. If MS loses the ODF fight in the UK and
> Europe, they are afraid that MSO market share will drop with time as
> people look for alternatives to paying MS a fee. The only cudgel MS has
> now file format lock-in but if many national governments refuse to play
> they can change the default formats nationally.
>
> If the UK goes through with ODF formats, first the UK government
> switches, then businesses and people who routinely directly interact
> with the government will change, then those on the periphery will
> change. They will change for the reason you alluded to; they want to
> keep up with only one version not two or three versions in different
> formats. Eventually the UK will use ODF formats almost everywhere. Note,
> I never said that users must change from MSO unless MS refuses to
> support ODF formats and refuses to backport parsers for MSO 2007 and
> 2010. However, Since several suites properly handle ODF already then it
> is easier for a user to switch to another suite (hopefully a FOSS
> solution).
>
> Assuming MS loses the ODF fight, then having MSO becomes less important
> to all users. Many are currently staying with Windows because of MSO. So
> a major impediment to using LO and Linux is removed for many, some will
> migrate to LO (or something else) and Linux and become permanently lost
> sales to MS. I am a Linux user and would love to only use ODF format for
> office files. I am a lost sale to MS; no Windows, no MSO, no other MS
> products because they do not release software for Linux. The longer I
> use Linux without any MS applications the more likely in the future I
> will ignore Linux releases from MS. I am becoming MS' worst nightmare; a
> user who does not use their products or services for anything. Multiply
> this in the UK, instead of a few percent of Linux desktop users you
> could have 15-20% very easily and very rapidly. especially with ChromeOS
> and SteamOS available. This is a noticeable effect in one country.
>
> Another effect of ODF in the UK is that UK companies will be using ODF
> formats in the future. Their overseas subsidiaries will be forced to
> adopt ODF formats to communicate internally so beachheads will be made
> unintentionally in other countries. This effect will be magnified if
> Europe follows the UK lead.
>
> The problem with RTF was it was another MS controlled format.
> <snip>
>

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Pedro Pedro
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Jay Lozier
Hi Jay

Jay Lozier wrote
 This effect will be magnified if Europe follows the UK lead.
Sorry to burst your UK centric bubble :)  Most European countries have already decided for ODF... UK is not leading, it's following.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption

Cheers,
Pedro
(from Portugal, who already adopted ODF 1.1 back in 2012 :) )
Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

Pedro

I stand corrected. Thanks,

I in the US where I am and the US tech press rarely mentions Europe is
moving towards ODF. (Snide comments about faux journalists being MS lap
dogs).

Jay
On 02/25/2014 06:13 PM, Pedro wrote:

> Hi Jay
>
>
> Jay Lozier wrote
>>   This effect will be magnified if Europe follows the UK lead.
> Sorry to burst your UK centric bubble :)  Most European countries have
> already decided for ODF... UK is not leading, it's following.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption
>
> Cheers,
> Pedro
> (from Portugal, who already adopted ODF 1.1 back in 2012 :) )
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Defending-ODF-against-OOXML-in-the-UK-tp4098594p4099013.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
Virgil Arrington wrote:
> A few years ago, most lawyers in the U.S. used WordPerfect, and they
> really liked it. It had some features that were very suitable for the
> law office. However, most of their corporate clients were using Word.
> (Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft). Over time, law offices
> began migrating to Word, not because they liked the program better,
> but because they needed file compatibility with their clients. Now,
> WordPerfect is all but an afterthought.

After one of one of the anti-trust cases, Microsoft received a large
document in WP format.  They had to go out and buy a copy of Word
Perfect, to read that document.  ;-)

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

I believe I read somewhere that it was the law firm that MS had hired that
was using WordPerfect.


-----Original Message-----
From: James Knott
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:42 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

Virgil Arrington wrote:
> A few years ago, most lawyers in the U.S. used WordPerfect, and they
> really liked it. It had some features that were very suitable for the
> law office. However, most of their corporate clients were using Word.
> (Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft). Over time, law offices
> began migrating to Word, not because they liked the program better,
> but because they needed file compatibility with their clients. Now,
> WordPerfect is all but an afterthought.

After one of one of the anti-trust cases, Microsoft received a large
document in WP format.  They had to go out and buy a copy of Word
Perfect, to read that document.  ;-)

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doug-2 doug-2
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

On 02/25/2014 07:21 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> I believe I read somewhere that it was the law firm that MS had hired
> that was using WordPerfect.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: James Knott
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 6:42 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in
> the UK
>
> Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> A few years ago, most lawyers in the U.S. used WordPerfect, and they
>> really liked it. It had some features that were very suitable for the
>> law office. However, most of their corporate clients were using Word.
>> (Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft). Over time, law offices
>> began migrating to Word, not because they liked the program better,
>> but because they needed file compatibility with their clients. Now,
>> WordPerfect is all but an afterthought.
>
> After one of one of the anti-trust cases, Microsoft received a large
> document in WP format.  They had to go out and buy a copy of Word
> Perfect, to read that document.  ;-)
>
I love it!  I still use WordPerfect on occasion. It has some features
that are
not duplicated anywhere else, as far as I know, and it is somewhat more
user-friendly
than OO and LO. (Sorry, LInux guys!) I actually use OO and LO, but when
I really
need to get down and dirty, WP is the place to be.

--doug

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

Doug wrote:
> but when I really
> need to get down and dirty, WP is the place to be.

Many years ago, I occasionally had to use WP at work.  I much preferred
Wordstar 2000.  Back then I was using PC-Write at home.  ;-)


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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington

Virgil,
I have not seen that commercial.  Maybe different cable companies or
different areas of the country have different commercials.

I hate companies who state if you do not use their product then you are
not a "real user or consumer, American, serious business, etc., etc..  I
have seen to many of these in print and on TV.

Yes, Word for word processing, like Kleenex for facial tissues, is
something that is hard to fight in the market.  Once it gets started,
you have a difficult time to get people to think that your "word"
represents your product.  I like "LibreOffice for liberate your office
from expensive license fees".  I think I just made that up.  Or
"LibreOffice - Always Free. No Fees Attached"

I finally got one lady to send our .doc files instead of .docx ones.  
She got the point that not everyone has the "latest and greatest"
version[s] of MS Office or their cloud version[s].

Yes, the UK needs to think "ODF" first and then choose the best software
that supports it.  LO is the best for ODF, as far as I have seen and
read in the tech articles.  But ODF vs. OOXML is a totally different
discussion/argument than MS Office vs. LibreOffice or AOO.

I started with mainframes, then with IBM PCs and "compatible to IBM
PCs".  My first "compatible to" system I built from a kit of
parts/boards back when PC-XT  came out.  Then 386, 486, etc. etc..  DOS
[MS and PC] to Windows.  Windows to Linux or Mac.  Yes over the years
there was no real standard for file formats.  Now there is, though.  The
International Standards people choose ODF. So now we can start asking
people to use the International Standard for office suite file formats -
ODF.  Sure MS really needs to get their act together and read/write ODF
properly so they to will offer "THE standard" -  ODF.

As for office personal that do not know how to put page numbers or use
bullets correctly, well every industry has their "lowest common
denominator" that cannot do the simple things.  But they are offset by
the people who can do things that you thought was impossible with the
product.  We just have to be patient with these under achievers and over
achievers.

I had a lady give me a "broken" desktop.  I saw the drive had only Linux
installed as the operating system.  I asked her what type of of Linux
she was using, since the drive was "half dead" and would not keep
mounted.  She asked me what Linux was.  She was using some version of
Linux and never knew that she was.  The guy who gave her the desktop did
not tell her it had Linux installed instead of Windows.  She just used
it and did not know what she was using.  Actually, I read some articles
a few years ago telling you how to make Ubuntu 10.xx and/or 11.xx look
like Windows XP or Vista.  Get them using the system and not tell them
that they are not using Windows.  They do not seem to notice.  She did not.

Yes, learning a new office suite can be challenging.  But how many have
you had to learn over the years?  PC-Write [DOS], WordStar, WordPerfect,
Word 95 MSO 97-2003.  MSO and its Ribbon menu system.  How many more did
you have to learn to support people in you office/work/college/etc.?  
Every time a new version of MSO comes out, you might have to learn some
new feature.  LO is not immune to needing to learn how to use the new
features and any menu system changes.  That is what is expected if you
keep your software up-to-date.  Yes, people do not like giving up their
favorite packages to comply to the new office/work-place standards, but
they do learn.  Give them a free office suite and guide them through
using both to start with.  Then ween off the users from MSO while
helping them use LO instead.  Later, the user will stop using MSO for
most things and you can remove it from their desktop.  Well I used MSO
2003 and OOo back and forth for a bit, till I was comfortable with OOo.  
Then I stopped using MSO. I still had it as a backup for about a year,
though.  In the spring of 2010, I went to a Ubuntu desktop so I could
not use MSO at all.  Of course, LO came out and I went to being a LO
user for both Ubuntu and Windows systems.  It will take time for the UK
and the rest of Europe to move to ODF, if they have not done so
already.  The same is true with the switch from MSO to LO or AOO. More
and more people, businesses, government agencies, are going to FOSS
packages to do their "business".  I think it will take many more years
to get a good market share of the Windows office suite market, but we
are slowly increasing our share and taking it away from MSO on the
desktop and laptop Windows market.  Now once we have LO for Android and
Mac "i" devices, then we will slowly build a market share there.

Slow and Steady.  Eat Away the MSO hold on the office suite market.

Desktops and Laptops are a "dead growth market" according to the "pad"
and tablet industry [Kindle and Nook included], but they are not dead.  
Business still NEED them for operating their businesses, since they can
do more than tablets.  I have a printer that will allow tablets to print
to it, but need a Windows system to run the needed software.  I have a
16 GB [or is it 32 GB] Nook.  Yet, it cannot handle the 6 TB drive space
that I have on this desktop I am typing from, plus the 6 TB worth of USB
backup drives.  AND NO, cloud storage will not work for "everyone".  I
think it is not a "safe" place to store your private and secure business
documents/files.  There are too many articles about how un-safe they can be.

oh well, I think I am rambling again in the wee hours of the morning.
Tim L. 3:11 am - it is time for bed....


On 02/25/2014 01:21 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:

> I haven't followed the entirety of this thread, but I live in a world
> which is (sadly perhaps) dominated by M$.
>
> Here in the U.S., Asus is running commercials about how good their
> netbooks are because they run "Office" (as opposed to Google Apps
> online with a Chromebook). In other words, they portray *real*
> computer users as using *real* programs like M$ Office. Now, I don't
> particularly like the commercials, but they indicate to me how
> mainstream M$ Office has become, almost to the point of blending brand
> names with product times (Word is to word processing as "Kleenex" is
> to facial tissues.) Again, I don't like it, but it's a reality I live
> with.
>
> I often have to write documents that are sent to colleagues who are
> using M$. What I write *must* be readable by their chosen program.
> They are not going to listen to an LO evangelist proclaiming the
> gospel of ODF. Heck, half of them can't even figure out how to put
> page numbers on the bottom of their pages, let alone learn an entirely
> new office suite with totally new concepts (page styles anyone?).
>
> For most of my word processing work, I save my documents as .ODT. When
> I need to share with an M$ colleague, I convert it to .DOC (rather
> than insisting that they use LO, which they simply won't do). It
> *generally* works okay, but numbered lists and bulleted lists get
> messed up a bit, just because of the different ways the two programs
> deal with those things.
>
> Having used PCs since my first Commodore 64 thirty years ago, I have
> long given up on any hope of seeing a true "standard" file format.
> Different programs perform tasks differently, and those differences
> are reflected in the information that gets stored in the native file
> formats. So, I don't see any hope of a true standard until all
> programs work the same way. I had great hope for RTF, but that bombed.
> Load an RTF file into four different word processors, and you'll see
> four different documents.
>
> Virgil
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Pedro
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:26 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK
>
> nabbler wrote
>> Good summary, worth more than 2 ยข! :)
>
> ;)
>
>
> nabbler wrote
>>> The problem here, as I see it, is that ODF is still in it's infancy.
>>> E.g.
>>> only recently ODF (under LibreOffice 4.1) started supporting font
>>> embedding
>>> which is an essential feature for anyone working with vector graphics,
>>> custom presentations or simply elegant text documents. MS supports font
>>> embedding since Word 6.0 (back in 1993!!!)
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/188324
>>>
>>
>> Isn't this issue affected by the fact that different operating systems
>> have different default fonts? If so, it would explain the relative
>> ease that the mono-platform m$ can solve this "problem".
>
> Not really. PDF which is an ubiquitous file format also has had
> support for
> font embedding for years. All modern OSes support TrueType and OpenType
> fonts. I think this is mostly related to the copyright licenses of the
> fonts
> which is more problematic in editable files than in fundamentally
> non-editable files (like PDF)
>
>
> nabbler wrote
>> and ignoring m$ fans (some paid by m$ perhaps?) would help by reducing
>> that evolution time...
>
> It's complicated :) If you want to attract large companies who want to
> migrate, at least the Import filter needs to be nearly perfect. I
> think the
> developers are wise enough to know when to ignore cheap CEOs who just
> want a
> replacement for their Office suite for free while still demanding to have
> perfect MS format Export...
>
> In any case LO (or any ODF based suite) can not afford to become an
> island.
> Not even Microsoft can :) That is why they pretend to support ODF
> (while at
> the same time most ODF files not created/modified in MS Office are either
> "corrupted" or will be "missing features"...)
>
> At the end of the day: it's better not to be a fundamentalist ;)
>
> Take care!
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Defending-ODF-against-OOXML-in-the-UK-tp4098594p4098967.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


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Jim Seymour Jim Seymour
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Virgil Arrington
As an aside: The following is why things are they way they are in
business, any more.

On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:54:35 -0500
"Virgil Arrington" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Since the IT department was
> under the authority of the finance department, ...
[snip]

We've avoided IT falling under control of the bean counters, where I
work.  If that ever changes: I'm outta here.

Regards,
Jim
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Jim Seymour Jim Seymour
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Jay Lozier
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 18:27:58 -0500
Jay Lozier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pedro
>
> I stand corrected. Thanks,
>
> I in the US where I am and the US tech press rarely mentions Europe
> is moving towards ODF. (Snide comments about faux journalists being
> MS lap dogs).
[snip]

More a case of the U.S. being U.S.-centric... to the point where the
rest of the world doesn't matter.  But that's another topic, for
another day, hopefully in another place ;)

Regards,
Jim
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Gordon Burgess-Parker-3 Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Jim Seymour
On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 06:59 -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:

> We've avoided IT falling under control of the bean counters, where I
> work.  If that ever changes: I'm outta here.

On the other side of the coin, I was a Group Management/Systems
accountant in a publicly-quoted IT company some years ago.
We had J D Edwards ERM system running on AIX. (And I have a few stories
about THAT as well!)
The Group Finance Department wanted a reporting tool to ensure integrity
of reporting.
We did some research and eventually purchased Hyperion - an
industry-standard reporting tool.
The IT dept refused to install it, saying they hadn't been "consulted".
One example of the organisation existing for the IT dept's benefit,
rather than the other way round! ;-)


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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> Now once we have LO for Android and Mac "i" devices,

There is a version of OpenOffice for Android now available.  That will
certainly meet your requirements for working with ODF on a tablet,
though you'll want one with a large display.


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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
Gordon wrote:

>The IT dept refused to install it, saying they hadn't been "consulted".
>One example of the organisation existing for the IT dept's benefit,
>rather than the other way round! ;-)

been there

Virgil

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Jim Seymour Jim Seymour
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 12:36:51 +0000
Gordon Burgess-Parker <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snip]
> The IT dept refused to install it, saying they hadn't been
> "consulted". One example of the organisation existing for the IT
> dept's benefit, rather than the other way round! ;-)

I guess I was being too subtle, by far :).  Was trying not to insult of
offend anybody.  My larger point was that corporate decisions these
days are more often made by people who add numbers than those who
innovate.

I agree, re: The role of I.T.  I.T. is not an end, but a means.

Regards,
Jim
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TomD TomD
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
Hi :)
Please can anyone with anything to say about ODF please post comments
to the consultation exercise
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20140220165521599
I think you can post even if you are not English or have trouble
writing in English.  Go for it!

My view is that ODF is the only format that really has true
interoperability at the moment.  In the future i suspect it will
become MUCH more widely prevalent and files stored in almost any other
format might struggle to be opened.

People might be using DocX quite a bit at the moment but each version
of MS Office seems to give fairly different results when trying to
display files written with other versions of MS Office.  The various
different implementations of MS's OOXML have been given different
names.  2007 and 2010 were using a "transistional OOXML" (ie NOT pure
as per the ISO standard and not the same as each other).  2013 and 365
supposedly use "strict" but in the future they might well change again
with no documentation describing the changes (unlike the well
documented changes between ODF 1.2 and "extended".  Also it's unlikely
that programs can easily switch between "strict" and whichever is used
as default (unlike OO and LO)

Regards from
Tom :)





On 26 February 2014 12:36, Gordon Burgess-Parker
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 06:59 -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
>
>> We've avoided IT falling under control of the bean counters, where I
>> work.  If that ever changes: I'm outta here.
>
> On the other side of the coin, I was a Group Management/Systems
> accountant in a publicly-quoted IT company some years ago.
> We had J D Edwards ERM system running on AIX. (And I have a few stories
> about THAT as well!)
> The Group Finance Department wanted a reporting tool to ensure integrity
> of reporting.
> We did some research and eventually purchased Hyperion - an
> industry-standard reporting tool.
> The IT dept refused to install it, saying they hadn't been "consulted".
> One example of the organisation existing for the IT dept's benefit,
> rather than the other way round! ;-)
>
>
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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Kracked wrote:

>The International Standards people choose ODF. So now we can start asking
>people to use the International Standard for office suite file formats -
>ODF.  Sure MS really needs to get their act together and read/write ODF
>properly so they to will offer "THE standard" -  ODF.

This reminds me of the '60s bumper sticker that read, "What if they held a
war and nobody showed up?" What if the International Standards people chose
a "standard" format and nobody listened? We can complain as much as we want
about MS not using the internationally accepted "standard," but as long as
the end users are flocking to Word and .DOCX, it is the de factor standard.
Again, I don't like it, but standards are determined by the marketplace, not
by the dictates of some international board.

If I asked a colleague to use ODF file formats because some International
board declared it to be the "standard," they would laugh me out of my
office. "Everybody uses Word," they would say, and I'd have to admit, they'd
be right.

I agree that MS should properly implement the standard. But, what if they
don't? People will still by Word and still send documents in DOCX format and
the rest of us will still stay up late complaining about it on LO list
serves.

*sigh*

Virgil


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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by Jim Seymour
Jim Seymour wrote:
> I agree, re: The role of I.T.  I.T. is not an end, but a means.

????   ;-)

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Gordon Burgess-Parker-3 Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

In reply to this post by James Knott
On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 07:58 -0500, James Knott wrote:
> Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
> > Now once we have LO for Android and Mac "i" devices,
>
> There is a version of OpenOffice for Android now available.  That will
> certainly meet your requirements for working with ODF on a tablet,
> though you'll want one with a large display.
>
>

If you're talking about Euro Office, it only supports odt at the moment.
Support for ods and odp is promised in future releases.
Having said that - it seems to work pretty well on a Kindle Fire HD...


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James Knott James Knott
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
>> There is a version of OpenOffice for Android now available.  That will
>> > certainly meet your requirements for working with ODF on a tablet,
>> > though you'll want one with a large display.
>> >
>> >
> If you're talking about Euro Office, it only supports odt at the moment.
> Support for ods and odp is promised in future releases.
> Having said that - it seems to work pretty well on a Kindle Fire HD...
>

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andropenoffice

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Gordon Burgess-Parker-3 Gordon Burgess-Parker-3
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Re: Defending ODF against OOXML in the UK

On Wed, 2014-02-26 at 10:08 -0500, James Knott wrote:

>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andropenoffice
>

That doesn't work on my Kindle - tried it and kept getting an error
message about not being able to download resources...


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