Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
34 messages Options
12 « Prev
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi all,

it is already 1:30 am, so wildly jumping into the discussion ... :-)

Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 00:02 +0200 schrieb Astron:
> Hi everybody,
>
> as the person who created the original version of sharp-triangled
> Extensions & Templates logo (ie [1]): I absolutely second Nik's
> request. If you need more of an eyecatcher, just make the entire image
> (a little) larger. The current logo looks butchered badly (and it is,
> given that I and later you modified Nik's good original logo).

I also second Nik's request for several reasons. Furthermore, I'd like
to add that the current logo needs an enormous amount of space that eats
away space for the actual content of the page. I would even suggest to
make the pages close to the default LibreOffice site, so that users feel
at home (whilst knowing where to look for the logo).

By the way, I know that you explained to me that its not possible to
combine the Extensions and the Templates page ... so an idea for the
future. The "X" could also be used for "LibreOffice E*x*tras" covering
both topics.

> Overall, though, the focus shouldn't be on the logo too much, but
> rather on the content: a grid of newly-uploaded/curated/rave-reviewed
> extensions and only two lines of text would be great.
>
> By the way, your (Nik's) homepage proposal looks good apart from the
> fact that there's still no action on the site (see above).

+1

The question to me is, what arethe most important tasks on the website?
I guess ...
     1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
        initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
        items -> from here, people should be able to get further
        collections)
     2. Getting information about LibreOffice (to know that this is an
        official page, to get information about "us" if the user
        approaches the page by accident)
     3. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)

Our interest might also be to: ask for donations.

Personally, I consider this a starting point for further "User oriented"
changes.

By the way, there are many categories to chose from (on the Templates
page). It might be helpful if we could consider the survey results what
people do with LibreOffice / OOo to make finding items easier. Does that
sound interesting?

[...]

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
nik-2 nik-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hullllloooooooooo again TEAM!

Great, constructive feedback all around people! ;

- Astron: thank you millions for your support and for being open to
changes to your modified logo. Also, well-spotted with the footer
segmented-green-border. It was also the one element that I was most
displeased with before submitting, but it was 2:00am and I grew
tired+lazy and submitted anyway. Self-imposed deadlines: a Designer's
best friend and worst enemy (other than clients! ... ha, I joke)
I think what you suggest would indeed work better.

- Andrew: thanks for the thumbs-up. Gradients are a UI's saviour y'know.

- Christoph: Boss, I couldn't agree more, action-items are very much
required. And IMAGES! which is our greatest downfall so far. But as I
mentioned, I assumed that content-discussions may have already taken
place and I wasn't about to radically contradict the outcomes. While I
have opinions of what could be on that site, I will leave the
content-discussion/decisions to people more capable such as yourself and
our Usability-brethren (but I will add some suggestions below rather
than being cryptic). Having said that, I don't think we need to get the
contents perfect before the Design can be fixed. I personally would love
to see some more iterative implementation because I have come to realise
that sometimes we (the Design Team) aim for perfection and action never
occurs as a result of our hesitation. But the Extensions site is LIVE.
Any immediate improvement that can be implemented NOW, should not be
suspended because of a perfect improvement that might happen LATER.
But... (and it gives me more pride than you can imagine to say this, now
that we have formalised leadership that we have been craving for EVER)
it IS your call =)

- Andreas: attention is a funny thing in Graphic Design, when trying to
balance "size" with "empty-space" you have to remember that there is an
inverse-bell-curve, where too much or too little empty space /attracts/
attention and a "balanced" compromise makes people feel comfortable, but
uninterested. For the logo I think we should go with this "boring"
balance because like you say, the logo isn't the major player on that
page, the Navigation is. But interesting to note in that principle, is
that something SMALL, when surrounded by luxuriant empty space, catches
attention. While I've never formalised that in any discussion on-list so
far, I think that is the method LibO should employ in its branding
language. It should become our mantra. Empty space (not necessarily
/white/, but /negative/) is our friend.

...

Personally, if you don't mind my opinion, I would actually change the
landing page quite a bit. An explanation IS essential, but if I were to
land on an exentsions site, the MOST Important thing I'd like to see is
a big fat search box or categorised index. Maybe some of the best-rated
/ most-popular / newest-addition extensions. I would like to see a
prominent "add an extension" and information/interview with Extension
developers.

And on a personal note, all of this constant emphasis on donation is
really starting to change my impression of LibO. A LOT! We went from a
philosophy-driven endeavour which emphasised its focus on freedom (both
speech AND expense) which rarely requested money.... to a seemingly
money-hungry enterprise that wants more donations - more donations -
MORE DONATIONS!

I know donations are our lifeblood, so don't get me wrong, but I think
we should be doing this in a much more elegant way than banner-ads /
home-page-hugging mentions of donations and never-ending mentions of
money. Firefox does quite well by emphasising it's "community of
volunteers" which makes you feel like supporting them, rather than
all-consuming "donate NOW" instructions. Again, just my humble, and
always controversial, opinions and nothing more.

Yet another long Email. I'll try and do more /Designing/ and less
/writing/ with my remaining time.
And sorry for top-posting.
-Nik


On 11.10.23 10:35, Christoph Noack wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> it is already 1:30 am, so wildly jumping into the discussion ... :-)
>
> Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 00:02 +0200 schrieb Astron:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> as the person who created the original version of sharp-triangled
>> Extensions&  Templates logo (ie [1]): I absolutely second Nik's
>> request. If you need more of an eyecatcher, just make the entire image
>> (a little) larger. The current logo looks butchered badly (and it is,
>> given that I and later you modified Nik's good original logo).
> I also second Nik's request for several reasons. Furthermore, I'd like
> to add that the current logo needs an enormous amount of space that eats
> away space for the actual content of the page. I would even suggest to
> make the pages close to the default LibreOffice site, so that users feel
> at home (whilst knowing where to look for the logo).
>
> By the way, I know that you explained to me that its not possible to
> combine the Extensions and the Templates page ... so an idea for the
> future. The "X" could also be used for "LibreOffice E*x*tras" covering
> both topics.
>
>> Overall, though, the focus shouldn't be on the logo too much, but
>> rather on the content: a grid of newly-uploaded/curated/rave-reviewed
>> extensions and only two lines of text would be great.
>>
>> By the way, your (Nik's) homepage proposal looks good apart from the
>> fact that there's still no action on the site (see above).
> +1
>
> The question to me is, what arethe most important tasks on the website?
> I guess ...
>       1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
>          initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
>          items ->  from here, people should be able to get further
>          collections)
>       2. Getting information about LibreOffice (to know that this is an
>          official page, to get information about "us" if the user
>          approaches the page by accident)
>       3. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
>
> Our interest might also be to: ask for donations.
>
> Personally, I consider this a starting point for further "User oriented"
> changes.
>
> By the way, there are many categories to chose from (on the Templates
> page). It might be helpful if we could consider the survey results what
> people do with LibreOffice / OOo to make finding items easier. Does that
> sound interesting?
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi Nik, *,

Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 04:31:34 schrieb Nik:
(...)

> - Andreas: attention is a funny thing in Graphic Design, when trying to
> balance "size" with "empty-space" you have to remember that there is an
> inverse-bell-curve, where too much or too little empty space /attracts/
> attention and a "balanced" compromise makes people feel comfortable, but
> uninterested. For the logo I think we should go with this "boring"
> balance because like you say, the logo isn't the major player on that
> page, the Navigation is. But interesting to note in that principle, is
> that something SMALL, when surrounded by luxuriant empty space, catches
> attention. While I've never formalised that in any discussion on-list so
> far, I think that is the method LibO should employ in its branding
> language. It should become our mantra. Empty space (not necessarily
> /white/, but /negative/) is our friend.
>

I played a bit around on my local box and made some changes to the css. I also
changed the logo to - hopefully - the original. The search-bar is placed now right to
the top-main-navbar. I changed the color of the heading to green.

The logo walked up the hill a bit to the top of the site. The height of the top-main-
navbar is smaller now.

> ...
>
> Personally, if you don't mind my opinion, I would actually change the
> landing page quite a bit. An explanation IS essential, but if I were to
> land on an exentsions site, the MOST Important thing I'd like to see is
> a big fat search box or categorised index. Maybe some of the best-rated
> / most-popular / newest-addition extensions. I would like to see a
> prominent "add an extension" and information/interview with Extension
> developers.
>

Hmm. If we want to get such search into the landing page, we had to make the
Extension-Center (Plone Software Center) the default page (not tried it out yet) and
add some content to it (special fields with some content: our current text; or text
with links to longer explanations).

> And on a personal note, all of this constant emphasis on donation is
> really starting to change my impression of LibO. A LOT! We went from a
> philosophy-driven endeavour which emphasised its focus on freedom (both
> speech AND expense) which rarely requested money.... to a seemingly
> money-hungry enterprise that wants more donations - more donations -
> MORE DONATIONS!
>
> I know donations are our lifeblood, so don't get me wrong, but I think
> we should be doing this in a much more elegant way than banner-ads /
> home-page-hugging mentions of donations and never-ending mentions of
> money. Firefox does quite well by emphasising it's "community of
> volunteers" which makes you feel like supporting them, rather than
> all-consuming "donate NOW" instructions. Again, just my humble, and
> always controversial, opinions and nothing more.

That's an issue that should be discussed on the website-list or on Foundation-
discuss-list. We need donations to run the services, because they eat up a lot of
money (and not-payed time of volunteers: but therefor we need no money).

Regards,
Andreas
--
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de 

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi Nik, *,

to fast, forgot to insert the link to a screenshot from my local playground.

Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 11:50:44 schrieb Andreas Mantke:

> Hi Nik, *,
>
> Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 04:31:34 schrieb Nik:
> (...)
>
> > - Andreas: attention is a funny thing in Graphic Design, when trying to
> > balance "size" with "empty-space" you have to remember that there is an
> > inverse-bell-curve, where too much or too little empty space /attracts/
> > attention and a "balanced" compromise makes people feel comfortable, but
> > uninterested. For the logo I think we should go with this "boring"
> > balance because like you say, the logo isn't the major player on that
> > page, the Navigation is. But interesting to note in that principle, is
> > that something SMALL, when surrounded by luxuriant empty space, catches
> > attention. While I've never formalised that in any discussion on-list so
> > far, I think that is the method LibO should employ in its branding
> > language. It should become our mantra. Empty space (not necessarily
> > /white/, but /negative/) is our friend.
>
> I played a bit around on my local box and made some changes to the css. I
> also changed the logo to - hopefully - the original. The search-bar is
> placed now right to the top-main-navbar. I changed the color of the
> heading to green.
>
> The logo walked up the hill a bit to the top of the site. The height of the
> top-main- navbar is smaller now.

Here is the link to the screenshot:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Liboextensionscenterchangesheader01.png

Regards,
Andreas
--
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de 

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

In reply to this post by nik-2
Hi Nik, all!

Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 13:31 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> And on a personal note, all of this constant emphasis on donation is
> really starting to change my impression of LibO. A LOT! We went from
> a
> philosophy-driven endeavour which emphasised its focus on freedom
> (both
> speech AND expense) which rarely requested money.... to a seemingly
> money-hungry enterprise that wants more donations - more donations -
> MORE DONATIONS!

Ah, very good point ... thanks for the reminder. Of course, the
donations are currently "just" required to pay for the infrastructure
etc. So yes, it might make more sense to explain people what the overall
project is about and how they can contribute to support us. From OOo
experience we know, that some people chose it because they want to
contribute, but don't know how / don't want to spend time.

So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.

Interest of the people approaching the page:
     1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
        initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
        items -> from here, people should be able to get further
        collections)
     2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
        manual work, so we have to help here)
     3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to other
        people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
        to find what he might need)
     4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)

The interest of the LibreOffice community:
     A. Getting information about LibreOffice (to know that this is an
        official page, to get information about "us" if the user
        approaches the page by accident)
     B. Ask for joining the community / supporting LibO (e.g. spreading
        the word, joining the community as explained on our "Get
        Involved" on the main page).

Comments? Ideas? I hope the list helps us to keep focus when it comes to
the content design.


I searched a bit how the "old" page was designed, maybe some bits and
pieces are helpful:
http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html
and
http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite3.html
and
http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_TemplateSite.html

A bit crowded when it comes to the Template Preview. However ...

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi Christoph, *,

Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 15:58:07 schrieb Christoph Noack:

> Hi Nik, all!
>
> Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 13:31 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> > And on a personal note, all of this constant emphasis on donation is
> > really starting to change my impression of LibO. A LOT! We went from
> > a
> > philosophy-driven endeavour which emphasised its focus on freedom
> > (both
> > speech AND expense) which rarely requested money.... to a seemingly
> > money-hungry enterprise that wants more donations - more donations -
> > MORE DONATIONS!
>
> Ah, very good point ... thanks for the reminder. Of course, the
> donations are currently "just" required to pay for the infrastructure
> etc. So yes, it might make more sense to explain people what the overall
> project is about and how they can contribute to support us. From OOo
> experience we know, that some people chose it because they want to
> contribute, but don't know how / don't want to spend time.
>

but that is not a discussion task only for designer. I created the Donation-Portlet
because there was a discussion and request on other lists (If I remember correctly
the website list).
Thus the discussion had to take place on the Website- or the Foundation-Discuss-List,
because otherwise we'll discuss this topic again and again on different lists.


> So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.
>
> Interest of the people approaching the page:
>      1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
>         initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
>         items -> from here, people should be able to get further
>         collections)
>      2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
>         manual work, so we have to help here)

Yes. But there is a link to a howto, that Gustavo and others wrote about this topic,
on every extension project page. I worked on the code of Plone Software Center to
make it posible that there is a hyperlink (and not only a text-link) to the howto.
If it helps, I can put the link also on the homepage.

>      3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to other
>         people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
>         to find what he might need)

Do you think about sending mails with links to other people?

>      4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
>

I need your proposals. Then I could look into the code of Plone Software Center (PSC)
and Plone, what could be done / changed.

Regards,
Andreas
--
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de 

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christophe Strobbe Christophe Strobbe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

In reply to this post by nik-2
Hi,

At 17:01 22-10-2011, Nik wrote:
>Hi Andreas, all,
>
>as promised, a mockup;
>http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:PROP_ExtensionsSite_111022NS.jpg

Is the grey footer also part of the design you are working on?
The contrast between the white text and the grey background is just
sufficient, but the contrast between the black text and the grey
background is too low; the same applies to the grey text and the grey
background.

(See the Contrast Analyser listed at
<http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/User_Experience/Tools#Evaluation>;
unfortunately only available on Windows and Mac OS.)

Best regards,

Christophe



>I've kept it realistic and in-line with the current site
>format/contents so that it would be easier to implement.
>The search box could always be moved back outside the Navbar if it
>causes hassles to implement.
>I envisage that the "only in current section" and other search
>options (categories) would pop up upon clicking the "plus" alongside
>the search field. Similarly, the full list of languages be made
>visible upon clicking the down-arrow next to the current language.
>I have more adventurous ideas, but they can wait.
>
>That gets the ball rolling. Let me know what you think.
>-Nik




--
Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD
Research Group on Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442
B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee
BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51
http://www.docarch.be/
Twitter: @RabelaisA11y
---
Open source for accessibility: results from the AEGIS project
www.aegis-project.eu
---
Please don't invite me to Facebook, Quechup or other "social
networks". You may have agreed to their "privacy policy", but I haven't.


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

In reply to this post by Andreas Mantke
Hi Andreas,

before I start ... thanks for being here with us. And being so patient
to answer all our questions :-)

Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 17:16 +0200 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
> Hi Christoph, *,
>
> Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 15:58:07 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> > Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 13:31 +1100 schrieb Nik:
[...]
> but that is not a discussion task only for designer. I created the Donation-Portlet
> because there was a discussion and request on other lists (If I remember correctly
> the website list).
> Thus the discussion had to take place on the Website- or the Foundation-Discuss-List,
> because otherwise we'll discuss this topic again and again on different lists.

Absolutely! Discussions will take place ... and this was the reason for
me to start the "what is important for users and us"-list. I think that
hasn't been clear from my side (sorry). Once we defined the "user tasks"
with the highest priority (or things we really need to avoid, like e.g.
advertising), it will be much easier to decide.


> > So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.
> >
> > Interest of the people approaching the page:
> >      1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
> >         initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
> >         items -> from here, people should be able to get further
> >         collections)
> >      2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
> >         manual work, so we have to help here)
>
> Yes. But there is a link to a howto, that Gustavo and others wrote about this topic,
> on every extension project page. I worked on the code of Plone Software Center to
> make it posible that there is a hyperlink (and not only a text-link) to the howto.
> If it helps, I can put the link also on the homepage.

Okay, thanks. But, I propose to wait a bit longer until we have the full
list (I assume that people who never used a wiki will be confused when
forwarded to another page that looks different).

> >      3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to other
> >         people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
> >         to find what he might need)
>
> Do you think about sending mails with links to other people?

May be one solution, yes. But do the other think that this might be
helpful / desired for such a page?

> >      4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
> >
>
> I need your proposals. Then I could look into the code of Plone Software Center (PSC)
> and Plone, what could be done / changed.

Yep.

By the way, is there any page that covers the Extension/Template-Center
development (something like our Whiteboard pages)?

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi Christoph, *,

Am Montag, 24. Oktober 2011, 21:23:54 schrieb Christoph Noack:
(...)

> Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 17:16 +0200 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
> > Hi Christoph, *,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 15:58:07 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> > > Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 13:31 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> [...]
>
> > but that is not a discussion task only for designer. I created the
> > Donation-Portlet because there was a discussion and request on other
> > lists (If I remember correctly the website list).
> > Thus the discussion had to take place on the Website- or the
> > Foundation-Discuss-List, because otherwise we'll discuss this topic
> > again and again on different lists.
>
> Absolutely! Discussions will take place ... and this was the reason for
> me to start the "what is important for users and us"-list. I think that
> hasn't been clear from my side (sorry). Once we defined the "user tasks"
> with the highest priority (or things we really need to avoid, like e.g.
> advertising), it will be much easier to decide.
>

but that is not a design-only-thing. It should in my opinion be discussed on the
lists, I suggest above.
I created the donation portlet, because there was a strong request for it. If we
would go in another direction or will change the focus, it should discussed on the
international discuss list or the website list. And it is no fun for a developer, if
he had to do everything again and again (You know groundhog day ;-)

> > > So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.
> > >
> > > Interest of the people approaching the page:
> > >      1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
> > >      
> > >         initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
> > >         items -> from here, people should be able to get further
> > >         collections)
> > >      
> > >      2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
> > >      
> > >         manual work, so we have to help here)
> >
> > Yes. But there is a link to a howto, that Gustavo and others wrote about
> > this topic, on every extension project page. I worked on the code of
> > Plone Software Center to make it posible that there is a hyperlink (and
> > not only a text-link) to the howto. If it helps, I can put the link also
> > on the homepage.
>
> Okay, thanks. But, I propose to wait a bit longer until we have the full
> list (I assume that people who never used a wiki will be confused when
> forwarded to another page that looks different).
>

But the howto is on our main LibreOffice webpage. Currently it could not be stored in
binary file format on the extensions-site, because there is an issue with the
blobstorrage (where all binary files go) (only for files from the website outside the
Plone Software Center).

> > >      3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to
> > >      other
> > >      
> > >         people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
> > >         to find what he might need)
> >
> > Do you think about sending mails with links to other people?
>
> May be one solution, yes. But do the other think that this might be
> helpful / desired for such a page?
>

If you have a description and maybe a mockup, you can post it to the wikipage (see
below).

> > >      4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
> >
> > I need your proposals. Then I could look into the code of Plone Software
> > Center (PSC) and Plone, what could be done / changed.
>
> Yep.
>
> By the way, is there any page that covers the Extension/Template-Center
> development (something like our Whiteboard pages)?

Yes, started longer time ago:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Exitensions-website

Regards,
Andreas
--
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de 

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi Andreas!

Am Montag, den 24.10.2011, 21:57 +0200 schrieb Andreas Mantke:

> Am Montag, 24. Oktober 2011, 21:23:54 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> (...)
> > Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 17:16 +0200 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
> > > Hi Christoph, *,
> > >
> > > Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 15:58:07 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> > > > Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 13:31 +1100 schrieb Nik:
> > [...]
> >
> > > but that is not a discussion task only for designer. I created the
> > > Donation-Portlet because there was a discussion and request on
> other
> > > lists (If I remember correctly the website list).
> > > Thus the discussion had to take place on the Website- or the
> > > Foundation-Discuss-List, because otherwise we'll discuss this
> topic
> > > again and again on different lists.
> >
> > Absolutely! Discussions will take place ... and this was the reason
> for
> > me to start the "what is important for users and us"-list. I think
> that
> > hasn't been clear from my side (sorry). Once we defined the "user
> tasks"
> > with the highest priority (or things we really need to avoid, like
> e.g.
> > advertising), it will be much easier to decide.
> >
>
> but that is not a design-only-thing. It should in my opinion be
> discussed on the
> lists, I suggest above.

And I agreed to that ... I just think its easier to prepare a balanced
list of important / less important things being based on an UX
perspective. That should make it easier to get the others involved (my
hope).

> I created the donation portlet, because there was a strong request for
> it. If we
> would go in another direction or will change the focus, it should
> discussed on the
> international discuss list or the website list. And it is no fun for a
> developer, if
> he had to do everything again and again (You know groundhog day ;-)

Well, I don't think that the donation portlet is a bad idea ... but as
Nik pointed out (which I agree to), it may convey the wrong message.
Especially for people approaching the page ... having not even found an
extension / template that might help them. That's also UX input ...

So, back to the Calc named ranges.

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Logo for Templates Site (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout)

In reply to this post by nik-2
Hi,

Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 04:31:34 schrieb Nik:
(...)

> - Andreas: attention is a funny thing in Graphic Design, when trying to
> balance "size" with "empty-space" you have to remember that there is an
> inverse-bell-curve, where too much or too little empty space /attracts/
> attention and a "balanced" compromise makes people feel comfortable, but
> uninterested. For the logo I think we should go with this "boring"
> balance because like you say, the logo isn't the major player on that
> page, the Navigation is. But interesting to note in that principle, is
> that something SMALL, when surrounded by luxuriant empty space, catches
> attention. While I've never formalised that in any discussion on-list so
> far, I think that is the method LibO should employ in its branding
> language. It should become our mantra. Empty space (not necessarily
> /white/, but /negative/) is our friend.

because I made some changes to the proposals and maybe the logo is not in the same
style like the one for the extensions site, I ask for new logo for the templates
site. I will use that for the step by step update of the site layout.

Regards,
Andreas
--
## Developer LibreOffice
## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de

--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Hi all,

I would love to jump into some of the new discussions (like Citrus UI),
but I feel that its also important to finish the discussion of the
Extension page. For those who might be unaware - the Extension website
has been announced to the public. There has been some nice coverage
(e.g. the German publisher heise a.k.a. h-online) featured it. So let's
start to make it perfect ;-)

Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 15:58 +0200 schrieb Christoph Noack:
[...]

> So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.
>
> Interest of the people approaching the page:
>      1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
>         initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
>         items -> from here, people should be able to get further
>         collections)
>      2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
>         manual work, so we have to help here)
>      3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to other
>         people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
>         to find what he might need)
>      4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
>
> The interest of the LibreOffice community:
>      A. Getting information about LibreOffice (to know that this is an
>         official page, to get information about "us" if the user
>         approaches the page by accident)
>      B. Ask for joining the community / supporting LibO (e.g. spreading
>         the word, joining the community as explained on our "Get
>         Involved" on the main page).

Anything missing? Any comments from an "User-oriented Engineering"
point-of-view?

What I'm thinking about is

Item 2.5: Currently, people need to pick extensions bit-by-bit. What
we're missing (not now, but if we become more popular) is a way to
suggest Extensions to users - fitting to their needs.

        Examples how this could be done:
              * Prepared collections by users / teams, e.g. the
                "Professional Writer" pack, the "Extension Developer"
                pack
              * Automatically created proposals like "Other people that
                downloaded XYZ also downloaded ABC".

Item 3.5: People want to provide feedback on downloaded extensions.
Either indirectly via the Extension Page, or directly to the developer
of an extension.

> I searched a bit how the "old" page was designed, maybe some bits and
> pieces are helpful:
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html
> and
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite3.html
> and
> http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_TemplateSite.html
>
> A bit crowded when it comes to the Template Preview. However ...

A related topic: The OOo extension site used so called "landing pages"
when the download of content started ... maybe something to think about
what we could achieve with it.

So, what do you think? Is this list (the primary use cases) complete
enough?

Cheers,
Christoph


--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Discussion about Extensions-Site-Layout

Hi all,

just a quick update ... I've moved the use case list and the "Twitter, G
+ and Facebook in extension and templates?" discussion to the wiki page
covering the Extension website:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Extensions-website#Requirements_and_Constraints

Sorry for the drafty look and the unrefined formulation ... but I
thought its more important to conserve that than waiting even longer. So
please feel free to improve those thoughts.

It would be cool if somebody could start to draft some workflows /
screenflows based on these lists ... and then we'll can ask Andreas how
easy (or hard) it is to incorporate these.

Cheers,
Christoph


Am Mittwoch, den 02.11.2011, 22:02 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack:

> Hi all,
>
> I would love to jump into some of the new discussions (like Citrus UI),
> but I feel that its also important to finish the discussion of the
> Extension page. For those who might be unaware - the Extension website
> has been announced to the public. There has been some nice coverage
> (e.g. the German publisher heise a.k.a. h-online) featured it. So let's
> start to make it perfect ;-)
>
> Am Sonntag, den 23.10.2011, 15:58 +0200 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> [...]
> > So, refining the tasks list ... open for discussion, of course.
> >
> > Interest of the people approaching the page:
> >      1. Getting extensions / templates ... so users should get an
> >         initial idea (so showing e.g. the most recent or best rated
> >         items -> from here, people should be able to get further
> >         collections)
> >      2. Getting help how to install Extensions (currently it is still
> >         manual work, so we have to help here)
> >      3. Making it possible to "forward" information / templates to other
> >         people (use case: advanced user "helps" less experienced person
> >         to find what he might need)
> >      4. Upload their own content (this needs refinement as well ...)
> >
> > The interest of the LibreOffice community:
> >      A. Getting information about LibreOffice (to know that this is an
> >         official page, to get information about "us" if the user
> >         approaches the page by accident)
> >      B. Ask for joining the community / supporting LibO (e.g. spreading
> >         the word, joining the community as explained on our "Get
> >         Involved" on the main page).
>
> Anything missing? Any comments from an "User-oriented Engineering"
> point-of-view?
>
> What I'm thinking about is
>
> Item 2.5: Currently, people need to pick extensions bit-by-bit. What
> we're missing (not now, but if we become more popular) is a way to
> suggest Extensions to users - fitting to their needs.
>
>         Examples how this could be done:
>               * Prepared collections by users / teams, e.g. the
>                 "Professional Writer" pack, the "Extension Developer"
>                 pack
>               * Automatically created proposals like "Other people that
>                 downloaded XYZ also downloaded ABC".
>
> Item 3.5: People want to provide feedback on downloaded extensions.
> Either indirectly via the Extension Page, or directly to the developer
> of an extension.
>
> > I searched a bit how the "old" page was designed, maybe some bits and
> > pieces are helpful:
> > http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite.html
> > and
> > http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_ExtensionsSite3.html
> > and
> > http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_TemplateSite.html
> >
> > A bit crowded when it comes to the Template Preview. However ...
>
> A related topic: The OOo extension site used so called "landing pages"
> when the download of content started ... maybe something to think about
> what we could achieve with it.
>
> So, what do you think? Is this list (the primary use cases) complete
> enough?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Alexander Wilms Alexander Wilms
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Logo for Templates Site

In reply to this post by Andreas Mantke
Hi,

I already posted this icon on the mailing list some time ago, but I
improved it and the whole mock-up a bit, trying to mimic the look of the
original Plone software center
(http://plone.org/products/plonesoftwarecenter)

Thus vertical space is saved, we have one or two eye-catchers and
achieve a clean look:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:TemplateRepository.jpg

Hope you like it

Alex

Am 28.10.2011 20:30, schrieb Andreas Mantke:

> Hi,
>
> Am Sonntag, 23. Oktober 2011, 04:31:34 schrieb Nik:
> (...)
>> - Andreas: attention is a funny thing in Graphic Design, when trying to
>> balance "size" with "empty-space" you have to remember that there is an
>> inverse-bell-curve, where too much or too little empty space /attracts/
>> attention and a "balanced" compromise makes people feel comfortable, but
>> uninterested. For the logo I think we should go with this "boring"
>> balance because like you say, the logo isn't the major player on that
>> page, the Navigation is. But interesting to note in that principle, is
>> that something SMALL, when surrounded by luxuriant empty space, catches
>> attention. While I've never formalised that in any discussion on-list so
>> far, I think that is the method LibO should employ in its branding
>> language. It should become our mantra. Empty space (not necessarily
>> /white/, but /negative/) is our friend.
> because I made some changes to the proposals and maybe the logo is not in the same
> style like the one for the extensions site, I ask for new logo for the templates
> site. I will use that for the step by step update of the site layout.
>
> Regards,
> Andreas



--
Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

12 « Prev