Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

Hi all,

in the today's marketing conference call (Agenda at [1]), some people
mentioned that the number of mails and the diversity of topics is a bit
too much for a single mailing list like marketing.

So my (unofficial) question is, whether you think that another
communication channel (mailing list, in the first step) might help.
What do you think?

Personally, I think that the combination of topics like "artwork",
"usability", "branding", "visual design", ... would make sense. On the
one hand, it prevents coming up with far too many lists", on the other
hand, it might engage collaboration of those, who hadn't the chance to
work together (in the past).

An additional rationale is that there are already some other people
ready to join - a separate mailing list would make it more easy for them
to follow the topics.

Cheers,
Christoph

PS: "Unofficial question" (see above) means, that I am interested in
what you think about that. Once we are clear what to do, we might ask
the SC to set this up ... but not if we consider this unhelpful.

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#Agenda


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bedipp bedipp
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

Hi Christoph, all,

Christoph Noack schrieb:

> Hi all,
>
> in the today's marketing conference call (Agenda at [1]), some people
> mentioned that the number of mails and the diversity of topics is a bit
> too much for a single mailing list like marketing.
>
> So my (unofficial) question is, whether you think that another
> communication channel (mailing list, in the first step) might help.
> What do you think?
>
> Personally, I think that the combination of topics like "artwork",
> "usability", "branding", "visual design", ... would make sense. On the
> one hand, it prevents coming up with far too many lists", on the other
> hand, it might engage collaboration of those, who hadn't the chance to
> work together (in the past).

I agree that it is not easy to follow the threads on the topics you
mention, but from our experience with the OOo Art project and even more
the Branding Initiative there are important topics to be shared between
the "general marketing" guys and the "designers/artist" working on
branding and visual design.

Perhaps it could be a compromise to add dedicated [TAG]s to the subject
of artwork, UX and design related topics, so they can be found very
easily while not leaving the marketing list.

I'd propose to use the tag [DESIGN], as it covers not only artwork,
branding and visual design, but usability design and UI design too.

If this tag is not sufficient to differ these topics from general
marketing, we should definitely ask for a dedicated list (and consistent
with the tag I'd call it [hidden email] - what actually has been
Christoph's idea I present now shamelessly)

Best regards

Bernhard

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

Hi, :-)

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:57, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree that it is not easy to follow the threads on the topics you mention,
> but from our experience with the OOo Art project and even more the Branding
> Initiative there are important topics to be shared between the "general
> marketing" guys and the "designers/artist" working on branding and visual
> design.

My idea would be that we shouldn't get *too* granular about this. I'd
see two lists: 1) Marketing (event organization, flyers, templates,
certification planning/design, etc) and 2) Artwork (technical
graphics, branding graphics, mime graphics, UX, UI, etc).

Obviously, there are quite a few subjects of overlapping interest, so
having just two lists makes it easier for people to monitor both but
primarily contribute to the list more central to their particular area
of expertise.

> Perhaps it could be a compromise to add dedicated [TAG]s to the subject of
> artwork, UX and design related topics, so they can be found very easily
> while not leaving the marketing list.

Tags depend on *posting discipline*, and this seems to break down
fairly quickly after one lays down the ground rules...

Further to the discussions during to the conference call, my POV
concerning "communications channels" is that lists don't make a good
information storage medium. People quote badly, people go OT, people
rant, and ideas and info easily get lost in the noise. They *can* be
good for brainstorming. But very soon after each important thread
reaches a natural conclusion, someone needs to collate and summarize
the results and then post them to the wiki.

Really, personally, I prefer forums. I know different people have
different preferences, though.

(Google Wave is also great for brainstorming, in many ways, but takes
some getting used to, and also demands "posting discipline".)

It's useful to have an "IM" medium, too, as a complement for the
above. IMHO, communal Skype chats are better than IRC: easier for many
people to access and use. Plus a great feature of Skype chats is that
you can *unsay and edit* your posts when you say something
stupid/incorrect/regrettable.

I really enjoy the conference calls, and feel that those discussions
facilitate good communication and enable quick arrival at a conclusion
about the topic under discussion (*providing* that people maintain
good discipline). I'd definitely like to see these continue regularly.

HTH. 0.2 cents. :-)

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

P.S. If it's not already done, I'd recommend that TDF set-up Google
Apps for documentfoundation.org and/or libreoffice.org. There's a host
of really useful stuff for collaboration, etc. Plus you can fulfill
your mail needs without busting your heads configuring and maintaining
a mail server.

David Nelson

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Le 2010-11-12 02:26, David Nelson a écrit :

Hi David et al:

> Hi, :-)
>
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 07:57, Bernhard Dippold
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> I agree that it is not easy to follow the threads on the topics you mention,
>> but from our experience with the OOo Art project and even more the Branding
>> Initiative there are important topics to be shared between the "general
>> marketing" guys and the "designers/artist" working on branding and visual
>> design.
>
> My idea would be that we shouldn't get *too* granular about this. I'd
> see two lists: 1) Marketing (event organization, flyers, templates,
> certification planning/design, etc) and 2) Artwork (technical
> graphics, branding graphics, mime graphics, UX, UI, etc).

I also agree. I think that tags will eventually break down. If we were
to establish 2 mailing lists, the marketing members should then make a
commitment to join both mailists and lurk on the mailist that is of
least importance to that member. This would hopefully satisfy the notion
that the sharing of information between the two groups will still flow
from one group to the next. OR we could have a wiki where a quick
summary of monthly discussions were posted for membership perusal.

>
> Obviously, there are quite a few subjects of overlapping interest, so
> having just two lists makes it easier for people to monitor both but
> primarily contribute to the list more central to their particular area
> of expertise.
>
>> Perhaps it could be a compromise to add dedicated [TAG]s to the subject of
>> artwork, UX and design related topics, so they can be found very easily
>> while not leaving the marketing list.
>
> Tags depend on *posting discipline*, and this seems to break down
> fairly quickly after one lays down the ground rules...
>
> Further to the discussions during to the conference call, my POV
> concerning "communications channels" is that lists don't make a good
> information storage medium. People quote badly, people go OT, people
> rant, and ideas and info easily get lost in the noise. They *can* be
> good for brainstorming. But very soon after each important thread
> reaches a natural conclusion, someone needs to collate and summarize
> the results and then post them to the wiki.
>
> Really, personally, I prefer forums. I know different people have
> different preferences, though.

You may want to consider our Nabble Gateway
(http://www.documentfoundation.org/nabble/). It sinks with the mailists,
Gmane and itself. All messages are seen on all 3 mediums. Nabble has the
same structure of forums.

>
> (Google Wave is also great for brainstorming, in many ways, but takes
> some getting used to, and also demands "posting discipline".)
>
> It's useful to have an "IM" medium, too, as a complement for the
> above. IMHO, communal Skype chats are better than IRC: easier for many
> people to access and use. Plus a great feature of Skype chats is that
> you can *unsay and edit* your posts when you say something
> stupid/incorrect/regrettable.

I also thought that Skype chats would be a good alternative until I
realized that I had forgotten the "mantra" that I was trying to perform
on the lists where ever needed: "many of our users have only dial-up or
mobile phone connections. More often these connection are quite slow and
limit certain activities." Skype under these conditions are definitely
not a good alternative. As a rule, we should always try to find
solutions that will include the possibility of 100% participation of our
membership. Otherwise we risk marginalizing that segment of our user
base that live by lesser means or live in areas where the connectivity
alternatives are such that only dial-up or mobile phone connections are
possible. These groups are often disregarded for the sake of expediency
and relegated to lesser roles in organisations. Let's find ways that
will permit 100% participation where possible.

In this case, I suggest we keep the Talkyoo setup as a telephone
connection is all that is needed (notwithstanding long distance charges
where applicable). Also, Talkyoo has generously provided and is
sponsoring our phone conferencing. This is another way for us to
encourage corporate sponsorship fro LibreOffice.

>
> I really enjoy the conference calls, and feel that those discussions
> facilitate good communication and enable quick arrival at a conclusion
> about the topic under discussion (*providing* that people maintain
> good discipline). I'd definitely like to see these continue regularly.

Yes, they are quite productive. Let's keep doing our regular monthly
meetings.


Cheers

Marc



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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by davidnelson
David,
As a part of the website development team I thought I might share some
info which relates directly to what you were saying.

> Further to the discussions during to the conference call, my POV
> concerning "communications channels" is that lists don't make a good
> information storage medium. People quote badly, people go OT, people
> rant, and ideas and info easily get lost in the noise. They *can* be
> good for brainstorming. But very soon after each important thread
> reaches a natural conclusion, someone needs to collate and summarize
> the results and then post them to the wiki.

We found exactly the same thing within the website team that too many
rants were getting in the way of progress on many topics. With the
steering committee's decision to move to Drupal within 6 months, the
team who are currently working on the implementation had to tackle
these exact issues. We have come up with a way to satisfy all (most)
of our community with forums which would also allow mailing list
functionality for those who would actually still choose to use it.

For those interested the official Drupal development site is located at:
www.libreofficeaustralia.org
(sorry about the localisation, but I plan an Aussie group setup after
it goes live on libreoffice.org)
P.S. Anyone with Drupal theme experience would be greatly appreciated.

Until the Drupal site is setup this kind of functionality will not be
'officially' available, but in the meantime the website team has been
chatting through the mailing list, tracking the ideas and progress on
the wiki and turning great ideas into reality. See:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website

> (Google Wave is also great for brainstorming, in many ways, but takes
> some getting used to, and also demands "posting discipline".)

A 'Wave' is an open source federated communication protocol. In
'non-geeklish' we can install a wave server on our server and use
either a web based client or desktop clients to access the server.
This is a great idea. I will float the idea in the website mailing
list and see what kind of response I get.

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by bedipp
Bernhard Dippold wrote (12-11-10 00:57)

> I agree that it is not easy to follow the threads on the topics you

I too have to make choices, and do skip threads.

> mention, but from our experience with the OOo Art project and even more
> the Branding Initiative there are important topics to be shared between
> the "general marketing" guys and the "designers/artist" working on
> branding and visual design.

Indeed. So one, at most two lists, is best, AFAIAC.

Ciao - Cor

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi, :-)

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 19:56, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> A 'Wave' is an open source federated communication protocol. In
> 'non-geeklish' we can install a wave server on our server and use
> either a web based client or desktop clients to access the server.
> This is a great idea. I will float the idea in the website mailing
> list and see what kind of response I get.

Actually, Michael, I feel that TDF could actually lighten its workload
quite a bit by relying on outside services from robust sources such as
Google for quite a few things, and would then be able to focus its
efforts on deploying and maintaining those things for which it really
feels the effort is worthwhile, such as the blog and the wiki. Google
Apps provides Wave - and lots of other useful collaboration
facilities. Why re-invent the wheel?

0.2 cents. ;-)

David Nelson

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Ivan M. Ivan M.
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by bedipp
Hi all,

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bernhard Dippold
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> I'd propose to use the tag [DESIGN], as it covers not only artwork, branding
> and visual design, but usability design and UI design too.
>
> If this tag is not sufficient to differ these topics from general marketing,
> we should definitely ask for a dedicated list (and consistent with the tag
> I'd call it [hidden email] - what actually has been Christoph's idea
> I present now shamelessly)

+1. I think it's a good term that encompasses UX as well (if we don't
want separate UX/branding lists).

Regards,
Ivan.

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

In reply to this post by davidnelson
>  Why re-invent the wheel?
>  - David

Because google has announced it will be removing the wheel before the
end of next year.
Google has also open sourced the blueprints for the wheel and made it
very easy to construct your own wheel.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/03/Missing_Wheel.jpg
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

Le 2010-11-12 22:04, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

>>   Why re-invent the wheel?
>>   - David
>
> Because google has announced it will be removing the wheel before the
> end of next year.
> Google has also open sourced the blueprints for the wheel and made it
> very easy to construct your own wheel.
>
> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/03/Missing_Wheel.jpg
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html
>

Many people found Wave too confusing and the learning curve was still to
steep for regular users. I belong to groups who tried and it was
abandoned. I think Wave was trying to be too much of a cooperative
"Swiss army knife" and forgot that people want simplicity.

It wouldn't surprise me if Google came back with a modified version that
is less daunting for simple users. To make it work, you must have mass
appeal and a simple and seamless operation.

Marc


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

Hi, :-)

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 12:19, Marc Paré <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 2010-11-12 22:04, Michael Wheatland a écrit :
>>>
>>>  Why re-invent the wheel?
>>>  - David
>>
>> Because google has announced it will be removing the wheel before the
>> end of next year.
>> Google has also open sourced the blueprints for the wheel and made it
>> very easy to construct your own wheel.
>>
>> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/03/Missing_Wheel.jpg
>> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html
>>
>
> Many people found Wave too confusing and the learning curve was still to
> steep for regular users. I belong to groups who tried and it was abandoned.
> I think Wave was trying to be too much of a cooperative "Swiss army knife"
> and forgot that people want simplicity.

Google Wave was just a possibility mentioned; I'm not even sure if it
would be a popular choice. It's a great tool, but involves a bit of a
learning curve for many people. The public Wave service was
discontinued earlier this year, IIRC. But it is still offered as a
Labs product in Google Apps (I'm talking about Google Apps for domains
and organizations).

However, whether or not Wave lives on, I feel that Google Apps has a
number of other extremely useful tools that TDF/LibO could use, and it
was more those wheels I was suggesting that we don't re-invent. :-)

David Nelson

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?

I do agree with you on using Google apps David.
Of the 4 domains I own I run GApps on all of them due to the ease of
management. I moved to Gmail almost 10 years ago, and have never
looked at another email client since.

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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[COMMUNICATION] Better conferencing? (was: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

In reply to this post by marcpare4
Hi all!

Besides the mailing list I mentioned initially (will discuss this in
another mail), some people already mentioned different communication
channels. I'd like to add my thoughts based on some years collaboration
- both at work and within OOo.

Am Freitag, den 12.11.2010, 04:25 -0500 schrieb Marc Paré:

> > (Google Wave is also great for brainstorming, in many ways, but
> takes
> > some getting used to, and also demands "posting discipline".)
> >
> > It's useful to have an "IM" medium, too, as a complement for the
> > above. IMHO, communal Skype chats are better than IRC: easier for
> many
> > people to access and use. Plus a great feature of Skype chats is
> that
> > you can *unsay and edit* your posts when you say something
> > stupid/incorrect/regrettable.
>
> I also thought that Skype chats would be a good alternative until I
> realized that I had forgotten the "mantra" that I was trying to
> perform on the lists where ever needed: "many of our users have only
> dial-up or mobile phone connections.

Very good point! A mailing list is something which does not only work
for people with "low bandwidth", but also with (temporarily) no Internet
connection at all. Many people I know, do work on emails and such stuff
when away from home (sitting in a train, on the way to their day
jobs, ...). This "work offline" requirement had already been mentioned
by Bernhard.

Another thing to have in mind is, that some people do feel uncomfortable
when using certain communication channels. For example, in Germany
people usually are a bit more cautious when large companies process /
own a lot of data (Facebook, Google ... just to name a few). For them it
is important to "own" the data.

The latter point can also extended a bit. If a company decides to stop
their business ... what happens with the data?

Finally - there needs to be a balance between "ready to serve" solution
and "having control". Based on my experience with several i-Teams and
the UX project, it would have been great to have a "virtual meeting
room". Not only a phone conference, but a virtual whiteboard, audio
streaming, desktop sharing, chat, ... without installation of any kind
of additional software on the Desktop. Open-Source software (of course)
and platform neutral.

Quite a number of wishes, or? Well, there is a project that I've been
watching since some time ... OpenMeetings [1]. Today, I gave the demo a
try (again) and everything worked flawlessly - so might this be
something that drives collaboration? In my opinion: Yes.

You may also want to watch the video / read the blog covering the latest
features - have a look at [2]. Or, check the demo installation at [3]
(Name: test, Password: test).

By the way, the installation instructions [4] recommend "OOo in headless
mode". Shouldn't this be "LibO in headless mode"? :-)

This may improve things for the website team, the marketing team, the
design team, ... What do you think?

Cheers,
Christoph

[1] http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
[2] http://opensourcewebconferencing.blogspot.com/
[3] http://www.openmeetings.de/openmeetings/
[4] http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/wiki/OpenOfficeConverter


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Re: [COMMUNICATION] Better conferencing? (was: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [DESIGN] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

Hi, :-)

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 05:17, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I also thought that Skype chats would be a good alternative until I
>> realized that I had forgotten the "mantra" that I was trying to
>> perform on the lists where ever needed: "many of our users have only
>> dial-up or mobile phone connections.

It's true that this is a consideration not to lose sight of. But many
"Web 2.0" possibilities are out of range for these people. Yet,
happily, not the conference calls, however.

> Very good point! A mailing list is something which does not only work
> for people with "low bandwidth", but also with (temporarily) no Internet
> connection at all. Many people I know, do work on emails and such stuff
> when away from home (sitting in a train, on the way to their day
> jobs, ...). This "work offline" requirement had already been mentioned
> by Bernhard.

Point taken... But then it's preferable for people to maintain good
"posting discipline" in all respects (proper quoting, etc.). There are
people on this list that need frequent reminding about that... ;-)

> Another thing to have in mind is, that some people do feel uncomfortable
> when using certain communication channels. For example, in Germany
> people usually are a bit more cautious when large companies process /
> own a lot of data (Facebook, Google ... just to name a few). For them it
> is important to "own" the data.

Yes, this is an important consideration, and a complex topic. But it
would be there even if TDF installed OpenMeeting "in-house"...
Possibly more so, in fact, because when the info/interaction is via
"public" services such as Google Apps, Skype, etc., TDF and
participants are accepting the provider's terms of service, and the
onus of responsibility weighs a *little* less on TDF? It's a subject
that could become a long and involved discussion...

> Quite a number of wishes, or? Well, there is a project that I've been
> watching since some time ... OpenMeetings [1]. Today, I gave the demo a
> try (again) and everything worked flawlessly - so might this be
> something that drives collaboration? In my opinion: Yes.

It's a terrific-looking tool, and could be a very good solution...
subject to addressing the above-mentioned legal/ethical issues.

> This may improve things for the website team, the marketing team, the
> design team, ... What do you think?

+1... Thanks for the interesting idea/links. :-)

David Nelson

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[COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Hi all,

thanks for all your replies concerning the "next step mailing list".
Since this is a short summary, I do reply to my initial mail ...

SUMMARY

So here is a short summary with focus on the mailing list:
      * Using tags within the subjects (like [Design]) might be an
        interim solution, but might break down soon, since posting
        discipline varies
      * People ask to not go too granular concerning mailing lists. Two
        of them should suit our needs and keep the so required
        collaboration.
      * One of the mailing list should target Marketing stuff (the
        current one), the other mailing one focus on overall Design
        aspects (the new one).
      * Further evaluation of communication channels should be done
        (IRC, voice calls, phone conferences, Google Wave,
        OpenConferencing, forums, ...)

Another thought from my side: I know some people who are currently a bit
hesitant to join. They do prefer a bit more streamlined communication
that is "pre-filtered" by a topic based mailing list.

I also would like to keep some consistency concerning the names of our
groups. For example, the mailing list "[hidden email]" is used
by "LibreOffice Website Team".

This leads to the following proposal I've made up by adding some more
additional discussions and the experience we gathered in the past.


PROPOSAL

Set up a new mailing list called "[hidden email]" for the so
called "LibreOffice Design Team".

The current "LibreOffice Marketing Team" mailing list
"[hidden email]" might be used for discussions on:
      * marketing strategy (requirements, target groups, ...)
      * marketing material (flyers, presentations, ...)
      * promotional stuff (press releases)
      * event organization (conferences, trade fairs, ...)
      * ...

The "LibreOffice Design Team" using the new mailing list
"[hidden email]" will care about two main topics:
      * Visual Design and Artwork (artwork, branding, graphical aspects
        of UI design ... for the software and the websites)
      * User Experience Design (interaction design, usability,
        ergonomics, user research, ... for the software and the
        websites)


Finally, I hope you support this proposal to make our work more
efficient and to - of course - add some more fun! :-)

I'll forward this proposal to the Steering Committee, who should decide
on that. Again, thanks for all your input!

Cheers,
Christoph

Am Freitag, den 12.11.2010, 00:39 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack:

> Hi all,
>
> in the today's marketing conference call (Agenda at [1]), some people
> mentioned that the number of mails and the diversity of topics is a bit
> too much for a single mailing list like marketing.
>
> So my (unofficial) question is, whether you think that another
> communication channel (mailing list, in the first step) might help.
> What do you think?
>
> Personally, I think that the combination of topics like "artwork",
> "usability", "branding", "visual design", ... would make sense. On the
> one hand, it prevents coming up with far too many lists", on the other
> hand, it might engage collaboration of those, who hadn't the chance to
> work together (in the past).
>
> An additional rationale is that there are already some other people
> ready to join - a separate mailing list would make it more easy for them
> to follow the topics.
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> PS: "Unofficial question" (see above) means, that I am interested in
> what you think about that. Once we are clear what to do, we might ask
> the SC to set this up ... but not if we consider this unhelpful.
>
> [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#Agenda
>
>



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yorick yorick
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Re: [COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 23:30:01 Christoph Noack wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> thanks for all your replies concerning the "next step mailing list".
> Since this is a short summary, I do reply to my initial mail ...
>
> SUMMARY
>
> So here is a short summary with focus on the mailing list:
>       * Using tags within the subjects (like [Design]) might be an
>         interim solution, but might break down soon, since posting
>         discipline varies
>       * People ask to not go too granular concerning mailing lists. Two
>         of them should suit our needs and keep the so required
>         collaboration.
>       * One of the mailing list should target Marketing stuff (the
>         current one), the other mailing one focus on overall Design
>         aspects (the new one).
>       * Further evaluation of communication channels should be done
>         (IRC, voice calls, phone conferences, Google Wave,
>         OpenConferencing, forums, ...)
>
> Another thought from my side: I know some people who are currently a bit
> hesitant to join. They do prefer a bit more streamlined communication
> that is "pre-filtered" by a topic based mailing list.
>
> I also would like to keep some consistency concerning the names of our
> groups. For example, the mailing list "[hidden email]" is used
> by "LibreOffice Website Team".
>
> This leads to the following proposal I've made up by adding some more
> additional discussions and the experience we gathered in the past.
>
>
> PROPOSAL
>
> Set up a new mailing list called "[hidden email]" for the so
> called "LibreOffice Design Team".
>
> The current "LibreOffice Marketing Team" mailing list
> "[hidden email]" might be used for discussions on:
>       * marketing strategy (requirements, target groups, ...)
>       * marketing material (flyers, presentations, ...)
>       * promotional stuff (press releases)
>       * event organization (conferences, trade fairs, ...)
>       * ...
>
> The "LibreOffice Design Team" using the new mailing list
> "[hidden email]" will care about two main topics:
>       * Visual Design and Artwork (artwork, branding, graphical aspects
>         of UI design ... for the software and the websites)
>       * User Experience Design (interaction design, usability,
>         ergonomics, user research, ... for the software and the
>         websites)
>
>
> Finally, I hope you support this proposal to make our work more
> efficient and to - of course - add some more fun! :-)

Definite +1 from me

Cheers
GL


>
> I'll forward this proposal to the Steering Committee, who should decide
> on that. Again, thanks for all your input!
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> Am Freitag, den 12.11.2010, 00:39 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > in the today's marketing conference call (Agenda at [1]), some people
> > mentioned that the number of mails and the diversity of topics is a bit
> > too much for a single mailing list like marketing.
> >
> > So my (unofficial) question is, whether you think that another
> > communication channel (mailing list, in the first step) might help.
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Personally, I think that the combination of topics like "artwork",
> > "usability", "branding", "visual design", ... would make sense. On the
> > one hand, it prevents coming up with far too many lists", on the other
> > hand, it might engage collaboration of those, who hadn't the chance to
> > work together (in the past).
> >
> > An additional rationale is that there are already some other people
> > ready to join - a separate mailing list would make it more easy for them
> > to follow the topics.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christoph
> >
> > PS: "Unofficial question" (see above) means, that I am interested in
> > what you think about that. Once we are clear what to do, we might ask
> > the SC to set this up ... but not if we consider this unhelpful.
> >
> > [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/ConfCalls#Agenda

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Le 2010-11-16 05:30, Christoph Noack a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> thanks for all your replies concerning the "next step mailing list".
> Since this is a short summary, I do reply to my initial mail ...
>
> SUMMARY
>
> So here is a short summary with focus on the mailing list:
>        * Using tags within the subjects (like [Design]) might be an
>          interim solution, but might break down soon, since posting
>          discipline varies
>        * People ask to not go too granular concerning mailing lists. Two
>          of them should suit our needs and keep the so required
>          collaboration.
>        * One of the mailing list should target Marketing stuff (the
>          current one), the other mailing one focus on overall Design
>          aspects (the new one).
>        * Further evaluation of communication channels should be done
>          (IRC, voice calls, phone conferences, Google Wave,
>          OpenConferencing, forums, ...)
>
> Another thought from my side: I know some people who are currently a bit
> hesitant to join. They do prefer a bit more streamlined communication
> that is "pre-filtered" by a topic based mailing list.
>
> I also would like to keep some consistency concerning the names of our
> groups. For example, the mailing list "[hidden email]" is used
> by "LibreOffice Website Team".
>
> This leads to the following proposal I've made up by adding some more
> additional discussions and the experience we gathered in the past.
>
>
> PROPOSAL
>
> Set up a new mailing list called "[hidden email]" for the so
> called "LibreOffice Design Team".
>
> The current "LibreOffice Marketing Team" mailing list
> "[hidden email]" might be used for discussions on:
>        * marketing strategy (requirements, target groups, ...)
>        * marketing material (flyers, presentations, ...)
>        * promotional stuff (press releases)
>        * event organization (conferences, trade fairs, ...)
>        * ...
>
> The "LibreOffice Design Team" using the new mailing list
> "[hidden email]" will care about two main topics:
>        * Visual Design and Artwork (artwork, branding, graphical aspects
>          of UI design ... for the software and the websites)
>        * User Experience Design (interaction design, usability,
>          ergonomics, user research, ... for the software and the
>          websites)
>
>
> Finally, I hope you support this proposal to make our work more
> efficient and to - of course - add some more fun! :-)
>
> I'll forward this proposal to the Steering Committee, who should decide
> on that. Again, thanks for all your input!
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>

Thanks Christoph for working this out. It all makes sense.

Marc


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bedipp bedipp
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Re: [COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

In reply to this post by yorick
... just to repeat it in short...

Graham Lauder schrieb:

> On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 23:30:01 Christoph Noack wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> thanks for all your replies concerning the "next step mailing list".
>> [...]
>>
>> PROPOSAL
>>
>> Set up a new mailing list called "[hidden email]" for the so
>> called "LibreOffice Design Team".[...]
>
> Definite +1 from me

+1

Bernhard

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: [COMMUNICATION] New Mailing List / Structure Proposal for the SC (Re: Do we need a separate mailing list for artwork/usability/branding...?)

Le 2010-11-16 17:24, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

> ... just to repeat it in short...
>
> Graham Lauder schrieb:
>> On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 23:30:01 Christoph Noack wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> thanks for all your replies concerning the "next step mailing list".
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> PROPOSAL
>>>
>>> Set up a new mailing list called "[hidden email]" for the so
>>> called "LibreOffice Design Team".[...]
>>
>> Definite +1 from me
>
> +1
>
> Bernhard
>

+1

Marc


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