Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

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Hal Parker Hal Parker
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Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

I was under the impression (which could well be wrong) that the working
files for Writer are now the ones in Alfresco, and the Alfresco files are
not being copied to the wiki (at least not until publication).

If the Writer Guide files on the wiki are indeed not being updated from the
Alfresco files, it seems to me that we should remove the list of them (or at
least the links to the files themselves) from the wiki. Or just hide them,
or do something to discourage distressed readers from sending us corrections
to things we've already dealt with.

I notice that the Documentation/Development page has been amended to refer
to work being done on Alfresco.

Hal

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

Hi, :-)

My 2 cents would be that all "draft/working copies" of files should
disappear from the wiki and go to Alfresco. Then, when we have a
user-ready, finished publication, we'd post a copy on the wiki, for
posting a download link on the wiki documentation page and on the
documentation page of the libreoffice.org website.

(The documentation page of the libreoffice.org website [1] is now
being linked to from the LibreOffice software, when the user doesn't
have Help installed, so it would be great if we can consider that as a
place to be updated with links whenever we publish new content.)

AFAIK, Jean Weber is posting stuff from odfauthors.org on the wiki,
and - IMHO - we should move it over to Alfresco and then zap the link
on the wiki page to that original upload by Jean, to ensure that we
don't have people accessing multiple instances of a file.

I don't know if Jean will decide to either upload directly to her
account on the Alfresco site, or if she will decide to upload both to
the wiki and Alfresco, or if she considers that the wiki is her
preferred drop point...

[1] https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/documentation/

David Nelson

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 14:04 +0800, David Nelson wrote:

> Hi, :-)
>
> My 2 cents would be that all "draft/working copies" of files should
> disappear from the wiki and go to Alfresco. Then, when we have a
> user-ready, finished publication, we'd post a copy on the wiki, for
> posting a download link on the wiki documentation page and on the
> documentation page of the libreoffice.org website.
>
> (The documentation page of the libreoffice.org website [1] is now
> being linked to from the LibreOffice software, when the user doesn't
> have Help installed, so it would be great if we can consider that as a
> place to be updated with links whenever we publish new content.)
>
> AFAIK, Jean Weber is posting stuff from odfauthors.org on the wiki,
> and - IMHO - we should move it over to Alfresco and then zap the link
> on the wiki page to that original upload by Jean, to ensure that we
> don't have people accessing multiple instances of a file.

I haven't posted anything to the wiki for weeks, and had no plans to add
any more files to the wiki now that Alfresco is the workspace for LibO
docs. I agree with what Hal and you have said about getting rid of the
Writer Guide files on the wiki.

> I don't know if Jean will decide to either upload directly to her
> account on the Alfresco site, or if she will decide to upload both to
> the wiki and Alfresco, or if she considers that the wiki is her
> preferred drop point...

Doesn't matter to me, but thanks for bringing this up, because the other
guides (Calc, Draw, Math) are ready for the LibO team to work on. I've
posted previously to this list about them, but I assume everyone is
focused on other things, including the Writer Guide rebranding, at this
time and will get to the other books in due course.

If/when someone from the LibO team decides to tackle the Calc Guide or
any other guides, they can pick up the OOo version from ODFAuthors or
ask me, or Hal, or anyone else with both an ODFAuthors account and an
Alfresco account, to provide copies to the Alfresco site as a start to
rebranding.

Jeremy, perhaps when you have a bit of time, you could make spaces, or
whatever they're called, for the other books, ready to receive the
files.

--Jean


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Ron Faile Ron Faile
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Hal Parker
On 1/27/2011 11:49 PM, Hal Parker wrote:

> I was under the impression (which could well be wrong) that the working
> files for Writer are now the ones in Alfresco, and the Alfresco files are
> not being copied to the wiki (at least not until publication).
>
> If the Writer Guide files on the wiki are indeed not being updated from the
> Alfresco files, it seems to me that we should remove the list of them (or at
> least the links to the files themselves) from the wiki. Or just hide them,
> or do something to discourage distressed readers from sending us corrections
> to things we've already dealt with.
>
> I notice that the Documentation/Development page has been amended to refer
> to work being done on Alfresco.
>
> Hal
>
Hi Hal, all

I disagree. I think the Getting Started guide chapters are well enough
along to be considered almost final for a first release. They just need
to be reviewed by someone before being considered final for 3.3. If we
remove the Writer Guide files, what are the users going to read if they
need some documentation? Especially since 3.3 was just released and many
people will be visiting the site. They need to be able to download
something, even if it's not finished. The wiki is a working space as
well, in every area of the project.

I also thought that the documentation development page for working files
should not have been deleted so quickly. Alfresco is only in it's
infantcy as far as implementation goes. It would have been nice to have
kept it until things are more ironed out.

Just my opinion though.
Ron

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Hal Parker Hal Parker
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Ron Faile <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/27/2011 11:49 PM, Hal Parker wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression (which could well be wrong) that the working
>> files for Writer are now the ones in Alfresco, and the Alfresco files are
>> not being copied to the wiki (at least not until publication).
>>
>> If the Writer Guide files on the wiki are indeed not being updated from
>> the
>> Alfresco files, it seems to me that we should remove the list of them (or
>> at
>> least the links to the files themselves) from the wiki. Or just hide them,
>> or do something to discourage distressed readers from sending us
>> corrections
>> to things we've already dealt with.
>>
>> I notice that the Documentation/Development page has been amended to refer
>> to work being done on Alfresco.
>>
>> Hal
>>
>>  Hi Hal, all
>
> I disagree. I think the Getting Started guide chapters are well enough
> along to be considered almost final for a first release. They just need to
> be reviewed by someone before being considered final for 3.3. If we remove
> the Writer Guide files, what are the users going to read if they need some
> documentation? Especially since 3.3 was just released and many people will
> be visiting the site. They need to be able to download something, even if
> it's not finished. The wiki is a working space as well, in every area of the
> project.
>
> I also thought that the documentation development page for working files
> should not have been deleted so quickly. Alfresco is only in it's infantcy
> as far as implementation goes. It would have been nice to have kept it until
> things are more ironed out.
>
> Just my opinion though.
>
>
The Getting Started guide is well enough advanced to have on the docs page
of the wiki, and they are there.

But the Writer Guide chapters on the wiki were out of date. The Docs page on
the main LibO website never did link to anything except the Getting Started
guide.

Hal

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
Yesterday, I wrote:
> If/when someone from the LibO team decides to tackle the Calc Guide or
> any other guides, they can pick up the OOo version from ODFAuthors or
> ask me, or Hal, or anyone else with both an ODFAuthors account and an
> Alfresco account, to provide copies to the Alfresco site as a start to
> rebranding.
>
> Jeremy, perhaps when you have a bit of time, you could make spaces, or
> whatever they're called, for the other books, ready to receive the
> files.

I just noticed that those spaces are there. Probably have been for some
time, but I hadn't noticed. Sorry, Jeremy; you're probably wondering
"what is she on about?" :-)

Shall I start uploading the OOo files to the Drafts folders for Draw,
Calc, Math, for people to work on rebranding when they have a chance?

The OOo Impress Guide, btw, needs more updating. Michele Zarri is
working on it, though I don't have a estimated date when he'll had the
revised draft ready.

--Jean





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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Ron Faile
Hi, :-)

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:06, Ron Faile <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If we remove the
> Writer Guide files, what are the users going to read if they need some
> documentation? Especially since 3.3 was just released and many people will
> be visiting the site. They need to be able to download something, even if
> it's not finished.

This week, I'll start contributing work on the remaining chapters that
need attention, and I hope we'll get an acceptable version to
publishable status *very quickly*.

> I also thought that the documentation development page for working files
> should not have been deleted so quickly. Alfresco is only in it's infantcy
> as far as implementation goes. It would have been nice to have kept it until
> things are more ironed out.

IMHO, Jeremy and Samphan's work is ready for start of docs work, and -
by starting work with the existing Alfresco workflow they've produced
- we can quickly fix anything we run across.

In any case, I've finished the work on the website that I was doing.
So, from now on, I'll be working to get up to speed with Alfresco and
the current situation in docs, and will be actively taking part in the
work you guys are doing.

[1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
Hi Jean, :-)

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:18, Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Shall I start uploading the OOo files to the Drafts folders for Draw,
> Calc, Math, for people to work on rebranding when they have a chance?

Yes, please, that would be great.

David Nelson

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 16:38 +0800, David Nelson wrote:

> Hi Jean, :-)
>
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:18, Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Shall I start uploading the OOo files to the Drafts folders for Draw,
> > Calc, Math, for people to work on rebranding when they have a chance?
>
> Yes, please, that would be great.
>
> David Nelson
>

I'll start on that later tonight or tomorrow, in between preparing for
the cyclone that's forecast to arrive around 04:00 or so on Monday.

I may (probably will) be off the air, except possibly for the phone, for
some time on Monday or even longer; downed power lines are quite common
here in big winds and the UPS holding up our router will do so only for
a few hours.

--Jean


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Tom Tom
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Alfresco

In reply to this post by Ron Faile
Hi :)

I think David and all have got Alfresco organised very well already and are
quite quick to respond if things need doing.

At this point i think we need to move over to alfresco en-masse to see if anyone
has any minor glitches with it as they work.  I think that is the fastest way to
completing our first published result too.

Plenty of people have been beta-testing our implementation of Alfresco and it's
ready for general use.  Hanging back would create problems now imo.  Heck, even
i have used it successfully!

Regards from
Tom :)





________________________________
From: Ron Faile <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 2:06:27
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

On 1/27/2011 11:49 PM, Hal Parker wrote:

> I was under the impression (which could well be wrong) that the working
> files for Writer are now the ones in Alfresco, and the Alfresco files are
> not being copied to the wiki (at least not until publication).
>
> If the Writer Guide files on the wiki are indeed not being updated from the
> Alfresco files, it seems to me that we should remove the list of them (or at
> least the links to the files themselves) from the wiki. Or just hide them,
> or do something to discourage distressed readers from sending us corrections
> to things we've already dealt with.
>
> I notice that the Documentation/Development page has been amended to refer
> to work being done on Alfresco.
>
> Hal
>
Hi Hal, all

I disagree. I think the Getting Started guide chapters are well enough along to
be considered almost final for a first release. They just need to be reviewed by
someone before being considered final for 3.3. If we remove the Writer Guide
files, what are the users going to read if they need some documentation?
Especially since 3.3 was just released and many people will be visiting the
site. They need to be able to download something, even if it's not finished. The
wiki is a working space as well, in every area of the project.

I also thought that the documentation development page for working files should
not have been deleted so quickly. Alfresco is only in it's infantcy as far as
implementation goes. It would have been nice to have kept it until things are
more ironed out.

Just my opinion though.
Ron

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Tom Tom
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
Ouch, so you and Egypt will be offline at the same time.  Good luck and take
care!

Regards from
Tom :)




________________________________
From: Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 9:10:49
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 16:38 +0800, David Nelson wrote:

> Hi Jean, :-)
>
> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:18, Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Shall I start uploading the OOo files to the Drafts folders for Draw,
> > Calc, Math, for people to work on rebranding when they have a chance?
>
> Yes, please, that would be great.
>
> David Nelson
>

I'll start on that later tonight or tomorrow, in between preparing for
the cyclone that's forecast to arrive around 04:00 or so on Monday.

I may (probably will) be off the air, except possibly for the phone, for
some time on Monday or even longer; downed power lines are quite common
here in big winds and the UPS holding up our router will do so only for
a few hours.

--Jean


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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Draft Writer Guide files on the wiki

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
Hi Jean, :-)

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 17:10, Jean Hollis Weber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll start on that later tonight or tomorrow, in between preparing for
> the cyclone that's forecast to arrive around 04:00 or so on Monday.

Well, take care and good luck with it. We've been on the edge of one
here, too, for a few days, judging by the constant rain.

David Nelson

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Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Tom
Hi Tom, *,

there is a world outside Alfresco inside our OpenSource-Project!

Am Samstag, 29. Januar 2011, 10:28:31 schrieb Tom Davies:
> Hi :)
>
> I think David and all have got Alfresco organised very well already and are
> quite quick to respond if things need doing.
>
> At this point i think we need to move over to alfresco en-masse to see if
> anyone has any minor glitches with it as they work.  I think that is the
> fastest way to completing our first published result too.
>

If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other languages,
they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in ODF-Fileformat. It is
also necessary that the current status of every document is written on this list.
This is necessary from two reasons:
-- new volunteers / other members are only able to jump in, if they know about the
upcomming work,
-- translation teams / other parts of our community are not aware of new documents or
prospective new documents (they had to look for volunteers to do the work asap).

> Plenty of people have been beta-testing our implementation of Alfresco and
> it's ready for general use.  Hanging back would create problems now imo.
> Heck, even i have used it successfully!

The Alfresco site is only one choice to do the documentation work. There are other
ways and our members are free to choose the way that fits best for them (or their
group).

Regards,
Andreas
--
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## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
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Hal Parker Hal Parker
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Re: Alfresco

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Andreas Mantke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tom, *,
>
> there is a world outside Alfresco inside our OpenSource-Project!
>
> Am Samstag, 29. Januar 2011, 10:28:31 schrieb Tom Davies:
> > Hi :)
> >
> > I think David and all have got Alfresco organised very well already and
> are
> > quite quick to respond if things need doing.
> >
> > At this point i think we need to move over to alfresco en-masse to see if
> > anyone has any minor glitches with it as they work.  I think that is the
> > fastest way to completing our first published result too.
> >
>
> If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other
> languages,
> they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in
> ODF-Fileformat. It is
> also necessary that the current status of every document is written on this
> list.
> This is necessary from two reasons:
> -- new volunteers / other members are only able to jump in, if they know
> about the
> upcomming work,
> -- translation teams / other parts of our community are not aware of new
> documents or
> prospective new documents (they had to look for volunteers to do the work
> asap).
>
> > Plenty of people have been beta-testing our implementation of Alfresco
> and
> > it's ready for general use.  Hanging back would create problems now imo.
> > Heck, even i have used it successfully!
>
> The Alfresco site is only one choice to do the documentation work. There
> are other
> ways and our members are free to choose the way that fits best for them (or
> their
> group).
>
>
I think each group (language team, or at least a group working on a
particular book) needs to choose where to coordinate that work. The English
team, or its leaders anyway, appear to have chosen to use Alfresco. If some
members of the team work elsewhere, then we run a great risk of duplication
and confusion.

Of course, that does not need to affect any other language team's decision.

Nor, in my opinion, does it mean that people working on a new book, or some
other documentation project within LibreOffice, need to use Alfresco.

Hal

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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Andreas Mantke
On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 11:12 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote:

> If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other languages,
> they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in ODF-Fileformat.

*Published* documents are going on the wiki. Alfresco is only for
working on the docs.

--Jean


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Hal Parker Hal Parker
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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Andreas Mantke
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Andreas Mantke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other
> languages,
> they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in
> ODF-Fileformat.


As Jean just posted, published docs are going on the wiki.


> It is
> also necessary that the current status of every document is written on this
> list.
> This is necessary from two reasons:
> -- new volunteers / other members are only able to jump in, if they know
> about the
> upcomming work,
> -- translation teams / other parts of our community are not aware of new
> documents or
> prospective new documents (they had to look for volunteers to do the work
> asap).
>
>
I agree we should be mentioning on the list which docs we are working on and
at what stage.

I also think it would be good to restore to the wiki the table of chapters
with who is working on what, at what stage. The links don't need to be
there, but for quickly looking up the status of things, it's handy. Or at
least it is if people continue to fill in the table as we were doing before.

Hal

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Andreas Mantke Andreas Mantke
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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Jean Weber
Hi Jean,

Am Samstag, 29. Januar 2011, 11:24:36 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber:
> On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 11:12 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> > If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other
> > languages, they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in
> > ODF-Fileformat.
>
> *Published* documents are going on the wiki. Alfresco is only for
> working on the docs.

OK. But we need status messages about the documents, so that every member of this
list is aware about upcomming / finished work. I explained in my last why this
messages are necessary (you are working on the authors-list very successful this way
;-)

Regards,
Andreas
--
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## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows
## http://LibreOffice.org
## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org)
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Tom Tom
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Re: Alfresco

I think a place we can look-up status would be very much more useful and MUCH
less annoying than the email blizzard.

It was a good idea to check it out and see how it went and seemed like a great
idea at the time.

Regards from
Tom :)




________________________________
From: Andreas Mantke <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sat, 29 January, 2011 10:37:32
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Alfresco

Hi Jean,

Am Samstag, 29. Januar 2011, 11:24:36 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber:
> On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 11:12 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> > If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other
> > languages, they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in
> > ODF-Fileformat.
>
> *Published* documents are going on the wiki. Alfresco is only for
> working on the docs.

OK. But we need status messages about the documents, so that every member of
this

list is aware about upcomming / finished work. I explained in my last why this
messages are necessary (you are working on the authors-list very successful this
way

;-)

Regards,
Andreas
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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Andreas Mantke
On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 11:37 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote:

> Hi Jean,
>
> Am Samstag, 29. Januar 2011, 11:24:36 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber:
> > On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 11:12 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> > > If the adapted documents from ODFAuthors should be translated into other
> > > languages, they had to be published outside Alfresco (wiki, website) in
> > > ODF-Fileformat.
> >
> > *Published* documents are going on the wiki. Alfresco is only for
> > working on the docs.
>
> OK. But we need status messages about the documents, so that every member of this
> list is aware about upcomming / finished work. I explained in my last why this
> messages are necessary (you are working on the authors-list very successful this way
> ;-)

Yes, I agree. I see Hal has just said something too.

--Jean


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Re: Alfresco

In reply to this post by Tom
On Sat, 2011-01-29 at 10:39 +0000, Tom Davies wrote:
> I think a place we can look-up status would be very much more useful and MUCH
> less annoying than the email blizzard.
>
> It was a good idea to check it out and see how it went and seemed like a great
> idea at the time.

Having both emails and a status page on the wiki is IMO best.

I am often limited to using my phone for Internet access. Email works,
but accessing a wiki (or most websites) is just too painful to
contemplate except when absolutely necessary.

When I get an iPad, my views might change... ;-)

--Jean


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