FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

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Simon Cropper (The foss Workflow Guides) Simon Cropper (The foss Workflow Guides)
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FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

Hi,

Writer has the ability so define a number of rows at the top of a table
that will repeat if the table extends over the page.

http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Repeating_a_Table_Header_on_a_New_Page

This sort of functionality would be great in Calc. At present it is
necessary to manually manipulate the sheet to put a header at the top of
each page.

Even if the process is not dynamic as for writer. It would be good if a
tool could be created that automatically moved the headers to the right
spot (~ automatic cut and paste based on page size).

Assuming a square table a designated number of rows at the top of the
table could be tagged as header rows by the user. These could then be
propagated down the matrix and inserted at the top of where the current
page break occurs. These duplicate headers are also marked as headers
but also that they are duplicates. If the page size changes and the tool
run again the duplicate headers are removed and the process repeated.

This sort of routine would save considerable time manipulating quite
sizable tables that can extend over many pages.

--
Cheers Simon

    Simon Cropper
    Principal Consultant
    Botanicus Australia Pty Ltd
    PO Box 160, Sunshine, VIC
    W: www.botanicusaustralia.com.au

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Harold Fuchs Harold Fuchs
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page


"Simon Cropper" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

>Hi,
>
>Writer has the ability so define a number of rows at the top of a table
>that will repeat if the table extends over the page.
>
>http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Repeating_a_Table_Header_on_a_New_Page
>
>This sort of functionality would be great in Calc. At present it is
>necessary to manually manipulate the sheet to put a header at the top of
>each page.
>
>Even if the process is not dynamic as for writer. It would be good if a
>tool could be created that automatically moved the headers to the right
>spot (~ automatic cut and paste based on page size).
>
>Assuming a square table a designated number of rows at the top of the table
>could be tagged as header rows by the user. These could then be propagated
>down the matrix and inserted at the top of where the current page break
>occurs. These duplicate headers are also marked as headers but also that
>they are duplicates. If the page size changes and the tool run again the
>duplicate headers are removed and the process repeated.
>
>This sort of routine would save considerable time manipulating quite
>sizable tables that can extend over many pages.
>
>
<snip>

>From Calc's Help pages under "Headings>Repeating rows/columns as"
=== begin quote ===
Printing Rows or Columns on Every Page
If you have a sheet that is so large that it will be printed multiple pages,
you can set up rows or columns to repeat on each printed page.
As an example, If you want to print the top two rows of the sheet as well as
the first column (A)on all pages, do the following:
1. Choose Format - Print Ranges - Edit. The Edit Print Ranges dialogue box
appears.
2. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area.
The dialogue box shrinks so that you can see more of the sheet.
3. Select the first two rows and, for this example, click cell A1 and drag
to A2.
In the shrunken dialogue box you will see $1:$2. Rows 1 and 2 are now rows
to repeat.
4. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area. The dialogue
box is restored again.
5. If you also want column A as a column to repeat, click the icon at the
far right of the Columns to repeat area.
6. Click column A (not in the column header).
7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat area.

Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and footers
to be printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.
=== end quote ===

--
Harold Fuchs
London, England



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Tom Tom
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

See below for replies ...




________________________________
From: Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 8:44:57
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
Header on a New Page


"Simon Cropper" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> Hi,
>
> Writer has the ability so define a number of rows at the top of a table that
>will repeat if the table extends over the page.
>
> http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Repeating_a_Table_Header_on_a_New_Page
>
> This sort of functionality would be great in Calc. At present it is necessary
>to manually manipulate the sheet to put a header at the top of each page.
>
> Even if the process is not dynamic as for writer. It would be good if a tool
>could be created that automatically moved the headers to the right spot (~
>automatic cut and paste based on page size).
>
> Assuming a square table a designated number of rows at the top of the table
>could be tagged as header rows by the user. These could then be propagated down
>the matrix and inserted at the top of where the current page break occurs. These
>duplicate headers are also marked as headers but also that they are duplicates.
>If the page size changes and the tool run again the duplicate headers are
>removed and the process repeated.
>
> This sort of routine would save considerable time manipulating quite sizable
>tables that can extend over many pages.
>
>
<snip>

> From Calc's Help pages under "Headings>Repeating rows/columns as"
=== begin quote ===
Printing Rows or Columns on Every Page
If you have a sheet that is so large that it will be printed multiple pages, you
can set up rows or columns to repeat on each printed page.
As an example, If you want to print the top two rows of the sheet as well as the
first column (A)on all pages, do the following:
1. Choose Format - Print Ranges - Edit. The Edit Print Ranges dialogue box
appears.
2. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area.
The dialogue box shrinks so that you can see more of the sheet.
3. Select the first two rows and, for this example, click cell A1 and drag to
A2.
In the shrunken dialogue box you will see $1:$2. Rows 1 and 2 are now rows to
repeat.
4. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area. The dialogue box
is restored again.
5. If you also want column A as a column to repeat, click the icon at the far
right of the Columns to repeat area.
6. Click column A (not in the column header).
7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat area.

Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and footers to be
printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.
=== end quote ===

-- Harold Fuchs
London, England



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Ahah, i thought this question ambiguous.  It could be about
1. Printing (neatly solved by Harold Fuchs and something i didn't know.  Excel
does this in "Page Set-up")
2. Onscreen

For Onscreen just click on any cell then go up to the menus and click on

Window - Freeze

Then try scrolling up&down or side-to-side to see the effect.  Then unfreeze and
set the freeze corner exactly where you need it.

Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



     
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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

Hi Tom,

First of all, thank you very much for trying to abide by the list
guidelines wrt inline-posting... and yes, I'm top-posting this for a
reason - sometimes top-posting is ok... ;)

One thing you are forgetting, which is now making your replies very
painful to discern/read, is to snip/trim/cut any unnecessary and/or
irrelevant content in the quoted text... hint: you *never* want to quote
the entire message, since that would include list footers, people's
signatures, etc, etc. Usually only a sentence or small paragraph is
enough to preserve context...

Also, you are apparently using the Yahoo Webmail client, which doesn't
seem to use the standard quote character '>' for showing quotes in plain
text emails... this is too bad, because it makes inline-posting
extremely easy, both for composing and reading/comprehension. There are
plenty of examples of how clean/neat these replies can/should be from
myself and others who have been discussing this in the bottom vs top
posting thread...

You might consider using a real mail client, like Thunderbird, that
handles quotes properly and easily - in Thunderbird, if you
highlight/select some text before clicking reply, *only* that text is
included in the quoted text in your reply... I use this feature all the
time...

But regardless, at a minimum you should always endeavor to delete any
unnecessary quoted text, leaving only enough to show context... in this
case, your reply could/should have looked something like:

***************** Begin example

On 2011-02-17 4:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

<snip>

7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat
area.

Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and
footers to be
printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.

-- Harold Fuchs
London, England
=== end quote ===

Ahah, i thought this question ambiguous.  It could be about
1. Printing (neatly solved by Harold Fuchs and something i didn't
know.  Excel does this in "Page Set-up")
2. Onscreen

For Onscreen just click on any cell then go up to the menus and click on
Window - Freeze

Then try scrolling up&down or side-to-side to see the effect.  Then
unfreeze and set the freeze corner exactly where you need it.

Regards from
Tom :)

***************** End example

instead of the mess (no offense) below, which I'm intentionally quoting
in it's entirety below so you can compare...

Last hint: bottom posting + 'mindlessly quoting the entire message' is
far worse than top-posting... most people who argue against
bottom/inline posting do so while failing to recognize the need to trim
the quoted text...

On 2011-02-17 4:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

> See below for replies ...
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 8:44:57
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
> Header on a New Page
>
>
> "Simon Cropper" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Writer has the ability so define a number of rows at the top of a table that
>> will repeat if the table extends over the page.
>>
>> http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Repeating_a_Table_Header_on_a_New_Page
>>
>> This sort of functionality would be great in Calc. At present it is necessary
>> to manually manipulate the sheet to put a header at the top of each page.
>>
>> Even if the process is not dynamic as for writer. It would be good if a tool
>> could be created that automatically moved the headers to the right spot (~
>> automatic cut and paste based on page size).
>>
>> Assuming a square table a designated number of rows at the top of the table
>> could be tagged as header rows by the user. These could then be propagated down
>> the matrix and inserted at the top of where the current page break occurs. These
>> duplicate headers are also marked as headers but also that they are duplicates.
>> If the page size changes and the tool run again the duplicate headers are
>> removed and the process repeated.
>>
>> This sort of routine would save considerable time manipulating quite sizable
>> tables that can extend over many pages.
>>
>>
> <snip>
>
>> From Calc's Help pages under "Headings>Repeating rows/columns as"
> === begin quote ===
> Printing Rows or Columns on Every Page
> If you have a sheet that is so large that it will be printed multiple pages, you
> can set up rows or columns to repeat on each printed page.
> As an example, If you want to print the top two rows of the sheet as well as the
> first column (A)on all pages, do the following:
> 1. Choose Format - Print Ranges - Edit. The Edit Print Ranges dialogue box
> appears.
> 2. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area.
> The dialogue box shrinks so that you can see more of the sheet.
> 3. Select the first two rows and, for this example, click cell A1 and drag to
> A2.
> In the shrunken dialogue box you will see $1:$2. Rows 1 and 2 are now rows to
> repeat.
> 4. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area. The dialogue box
> is restored again.
> 5. If you also want column A as a column to repeat, click the icon at the far
> right of the Columns to repeat area.
> 6. Click column A (not in the column header).
> 7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat area.
>
> Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and footers to be
> printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.
> === end quote ===
>
> -- Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>
>
>
> -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/
> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
>
>
> Ahah, i thought this question ambiguous.  It could be about
> 1. Printing (neatly solved by Harold Fuchs and something i didn't know.  Excel
> does this in "Page Set-up")
> 2. Onscreen
>
> For Onscreen just click on any cell then go up to the menus and click on
>
> Window - Freeze
>
> Then try scrolling up&down or side-to-side to see the effect.  Then unfreeze and
> set the freeze corner exactly where you need it.
>
> Good luck and regards from
> Tom :)

--

Best regards,

Charles

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Luuk Luuk
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On 17-02-11 13:01, Charles Marcus wrote:

> Hi Tom,
>
> Also, you are apparently using the Yahoo Webmail client, which doesn't
> seem to use the standard quote character '>' for showing quotes in plain
> text emails... this is too bad, because it makes inline-posting
> extremely easy, both for composing and reading/comprehension. There are
> plenty of examples of how clean/neat these replies can/should be from
> myself and others who have been discussing this in the bottom vs top
> posting thread...
>
In web-mail of yahoo  (mail.yahoo.com)
Under Option/More Options/General
put a mark before "Quote the text of the original message"

You do have to logout/login before this seems to take effect.

--
Luuk




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Luuk Luuk
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
On 17-02-11 13:01, Charles Marcus wrote:
> You might consider using a real mail client, like Thunderbird, that
> handles quotes properly and easily - in Thunderbird, if you
> highlight/select some text before clicking reply, *only* that text is
> included in the quoted text in your reply... I use this feature all the
> time...

I thought this mailing list was about promoting the use of LibeOffice,
an not of Thunderbird...

;-)

--
Luuk

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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

In reply to this post by Luuk
On 2011-02-17 7:31 AM, Luuk wrote:
> On 17-02-11 13:01, Charles Marcus wrote:
>> Also, you are apparently using the Yahoo Webmail client, which doesn't
>> seem to use the standard quote character '>' for showing quotes in plain
>> text emails... this is too bad, because it makes inline-posting
>> extremely easy, both for composing and reading/comprehension. There are
>> plenty of examples of how clean/neat these replies can/should be from
>> myself and others who have been discussing this in the bottom vs top
>> posting thread...

> In web-mail of yahoo  (mail.yahoo.com)
> Under Option/More Options/General
> put a mark before "Quote the text of the original message"

Ummm... he already *is* quoting the *entire* message, so this is
obviously already enabled...

However, maybe there are some other options... haven't used my yahoo
account in ages, but lets go see... had to reactivate...

Nope, no other options to deal with this that I can see...

--

Best regards,

Charles

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Luuk Luuk
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On 17-02-11 13:56, Charles Marcus wrote:

> On 2011-02-17 7:31 AM, Luuk wrote:
>> On 17-02-11 13:01, Charles Marcus wrote:
>>> Also, you are apparently using the Yahoo Webmail client, which doesn't
>>> seem to use the standard quote character '>' for showing quotes in plain
>>> text emails... this is too bad, because it makes inline-posting
>>> extremely easy, both for composing and reading/comprehension. There are
>>> plenty of examples of how clean/neat these replies can/should be from
>>> myself and others who have been discussing this in the bottom vs top
>>> posting thread...
>> In web-mail of yahoo  (mail.yahoo.com)
>> Under Option/More Options/General
>> put a mark before "Quote the text of the original message"
> Ummm... he already *is* quoting the *entire* message, so this is
> obviously already enabled...
>
> However, maybe there are some other options... haven't used my yahoo
> account in ages, but lets go see... had to reactivate...
>
> Nope, no other options to deal with this that I can see...
>
Sorry, this was meant to make Tom Davies quoot properly....
but that piece of info was missing..

--
Luuk

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Tom Tom
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top-posting

In reply to this post by Luuk
Hi :)

I think those lovely, wonderful people at MicroSoft run Yahoo so i have been
thinking about moving to a different web-based email system but the choices are
limited to things such as Gmail.  In England there is a phrase "Out of the
frying pan into the fire" which sums up how i feel about such a move.  This
whole question about top-posting has shown me 3 things

1.  MicroSoft defaults are 'sometimes' sub-optimal
2.  MicroSoft gives Freedom FROM Choice whereas OpenSource 'sometimes' offers
Freedom OF Choice.
3.  The list can't handle normal office users.

The first point is not news; it's more 'olds'.  Same with the 2nd point.  The
3rd point is an unpopular idea in this list that leads to bullying and is just
sad for an "Office Suite" list = it's an office suite for techies & geeks, not
for normal corporate or mainstream office users.  While people harangue or
harass or bully me about stating this rather than considering why i might make
this claim it remains one of the reasons that blocks LibreOffice and OpenOffice
from widespread mainstream usage.  

Regards from
Tom :)





________________________________
From: Luuk <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 12:36:37
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
Header on a New Page

On 17-02-11 13:01, Charles Marcus wrote:
> You might consider using a real mail client, like Thunderbird, that
> handles quotes properly and easily - in Thunderbird, if you
> highlight/select some text before clicking reply, *only* that text is
> included in the quoted text in your reply... I use this feature all the
> time...

I thought this mailing list was about promoting the use of LibeOffice,
an not of Thunderbird...

;-)

--
Luuk

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Tom Tom
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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
Ahah, at last.  Thanks for helping rather than blaming.  This type of answer is
one of the perfect ways of handling the problem.  It is the type of thing that
make LO great.  


Unfortunately it shows that bottom posting involves more work than most office
workers are prepared to do and if we demand that they do all this then they will
often consider it easier to reinstall MS Office rather than deal with this.  I
know that is ridiculous.  Mostly they wont have un-installed MS Office so there
is even less reason for them to stay with LO.

Regards from
Tom :)





________________________________
From: Charles Marcus <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 12:01:41
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
Header on a New Page

Hi Tom,

First of all, thank you very much for trying to abide by the list
guidelines wrt inline-posting... and yes, I'm top-posting this for a
reason - sometimes top-posting is ok... ;)

One thing you are forgetting, which is now making your replies very
painful to discern/read, is to snip/trim/cut any unnecessary and/or
irrelevant content in the quoted text... hint: you *never* want to quote
the entire message, since that would include list footers, people's
signatures, etc, etc. Usually only a sentence or small paragraph is
enough to preserve context...

Also, you are apparently using the Yahoo Webmail client, which doesn't
seem to use the standard quote character '>' for showing quotes in plain
text emails... this is too bad, because it makes inline-posting
extremely easy, both for composing and reading/comprehension. There are
plenty of examples of how clean/neat these replies can/should be from
myself and others who have been discussing this in the bottom vs top
posting thread...

You might consider using a real mail client, like Thunderbird, that
handles quotes properly and easily - in Thunderbird, if you
highlight/select some text before clicking reply, *only* that text is
included in the quoted text in your reply... I use this feature all the
time...

But regardless, at a minimum you should always endeavor to delete any
unnecessary quoted text, leaving only enough to show context... in this
case, your reply could/should have looked something like:

***************** Begin example

On 2011-02-17 4:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

<snip>

7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat
area.

Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and
footers to be
printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.

-- Harold Fuchs
London, England
=== end quote ===

Ahah, i thought this question ambiguous.  It could be about
1. Printing (neatly solved by Harold Fuchs and something i didn't
know.  Excel does this in "Page Set-up")
2. Onscreen

For Onscreen just click on any cell then go up to the menus and click on
Window - Freeze

Then try scrolling up&down or side-to-side to see the effect.  Then
unfreeze and set the freeze corner exactly where you need it.

Regards from
Tom :)

***************** End example

instead of the mess (no offense) below, which I'm intentionally quoting
in it's entirety below so you can compare...

Last hint: bottom posting + 'mindlessly quoting the entire message' is
far worse than top-posting... most people who argue against
bottom/inline posting do so while failing to recognize the need to trim
the quoted text...

On 2011-02-17 4:11 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

> See below for replies ...
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 8:44:57
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
> Header on a New Page
>
>
> "Simon Cropper" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Writer has the ability so define a number of rows at the top of a table that
>> will repeat if the table extends over the page.
>>
>> http://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Repeating_a_Table_Header_on_a_New_Page
>>
>> This sort of functionality would be great in Calc. At present it is necessary

>> to manually manipulate the sheet to put a header at the top of each page.
>>
>> Even if the process is not dynamic as for writer. It would be good if a tool
>> could be created that automatically moved the headers to the right spot (~
>> automatic cut and paste based on page size).
>>
>> Assuming a square table a designated number of rows at the top of the table
>> could be tagged as header rows by the user. These could then be propagated down
>>
>> the matrix and inserted at the top of where the current page break occurs.
>>These
>>
>> duplicate headers are also marked as headers but also that they are duplicates.
>>
>> If the page size changes and the tool run again the duplicate headers are
>> removed and the process repeated.
>>
>> This sort of routine would save considerable time manipulating quite sizable
>> tables that can extend over many pages.
>>
>>
> <snip>
>
>> From Calc's Help pages under "Headings>Repeating rows/columns as"
> === begin quote ===
> Printing Rows or Columns on Every Page
> If you have a sheet that is so large that it will be printed multiple pages,
>you
>
> can set up rows or columns to repeat on each printed page.
> As an example, If you want to print the top two rows of the sheet as well as
>the
>
> first column (A)on all pages, do the following:
> 1. Choose Format - Print Ranges - Edit. The Edit Print Ranges dialogue box
> appears.
> 2. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area.
> The dialogue box shrinks so that you can see more of the sheet.
> 3. Select the first two rows and, for this example, click cell A1 and drag to
> A2.
> In the shrunken dialogue box you will see $1:$2. Rows 1 and 2 are now rows to
> repeat.
> 4. Click the icon at the far right of the Rows to repeat area. The dialogue box
>
> is restored again.
> 5. If you also want column A as a column to repeat, click the icon at the far
> right of the Columns to repeat area.
> 6. Click column A (not in the column header).
> 7. Click the icon again at the far right of the Columns to repeat area.
>
> Rows to repeat are rows from the sheet. You can define headers and footers to
>be
>
> printed on each print page independently of this in Format - Page.
> === end quote ===
>
> -- Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>
>
>
> -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
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>
>
> Ahah, i thought this question ambiguous.  It could be about
> 1. Printing (neatly solved by Harold Fuchs and something i didn't know.  Excel

> does this in "Page Set-up")
> 2. Onscreen
>
> For Onscreen just click on any cell then go up to the menus and click on
>
> Window - Freeze
>
> Then try scrolling up&down or side-to-side to see the effect.  Then unfreeze
>and
>
> set the freeze corner exactly where you need it.
>
> Good luck and regards from
> Tom :)

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Charles

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Re: top-posting

In reply to this post by Tom
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
:
> The first point is not news; it's more 'olds'.  Same with the 2nd point.  The
> 3rd point is an unpopular idea in this list that leads to bullying and is just
> sad for an "Office Suite" list = it's an office suite for techies & geeks, not
> for normal corporate or mainstream office users.  While people harangue or
> harass or bully me about stating this rather than considering why i might make
> this claim it remains one of the reasons that blocks LibreOffice and OpenOffice
> from widespread mainstream usage.
>

Tom, to be perfectly honest, while I really hate to bounce around in a
thread trying to figure out who said what in what order because of
mixed top, inline and bottom posting, it is possible (thought backing
up the thread is easier and clearer).

I object more to things like excessive blank lines (they add nothing
but a need to scroll through more space), introductory smileys (not
needed, waste of space like blank lines, etc.) and complete reposting
of large chunks of messages that a) were already posted on the thread
and b) don't relate directly to the current reply.

Why?

Because it makes me work harder to find what I need to know, weeded
out from that which I already knew.  Often as not, it only takes a
little effort to trim the excess, and that includes both top
(typically earlier replies) and bottom (mainly the footer, but
anything after the last new part of the reply).

Brevity is not only the soul of wit, it is in the essence of problem
solving - cut away that which is not directly relevant and you are
left with a clearer path to the solution, especially in email
discussions.

Just my $0.02.  FTR, I think most of your posts are very helpful to
the less experienced or sophisticated users, and sometimes even old
hats like me.

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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

In reply to this post by Tom
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
:
>
> Unfortunately it shows that bottom posting involves more work than most office
> workers are prepared to do and if we demand that they do all this then they will
> often consider it easier to reinstall MS Office rather than deal with this.  I
> know that is ridiculous.  Mostly they wont have un-installed MS Office so there
> is even less reason for them to stay with LO.
>

Wellll, not really.  If you bottom post, on your way down through the
text to which you are replying, you can delete that which is not
needed in the reply.  (Not "you" personally, but anyone.)

Going back and proofreading a response is also a good idea - makes it
easier to see if what you said is legible....

And I often forget that last step, too.

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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

In reply to this post by Tom
On 2011-02-17 1:43 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Ahah, at last. Thanks for helping rather than blaming. This type of
> answer is one of the perfect ways of handling the problem. It is the
> type of thing that make LO great.
>
> Unfortunately it shows that bottom posting involves more work than
> most office workers are prepared to do and if we demand that they do
> all this then they will often consider it easier to reinstall MS
> Office rather than deal with this. I know that is ridiculous. Mostly
> they wont have un-installed MS Office so there is even less reason
> for them to stay with LO.

Are you seriously suggesting that taking 3-5 seconds to select/delete
some text 'involves more work than most office workers are prepared to do'?

It is a simple matter, really... all it takes is to stop, think about
it, and just try it.

All you would have had to do for this message I'm replying to was, start
at about the end of my first or second paragraph, highlight everything
below it, hit the delete button on your keyboard, then add your ===End
Quote=== and hit enter a few times, type your reply then click send.

If that is too much work for you or anyone else for that matter, then I
accuse you (and them) of being (a) lazy sob(s)... ;)

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Charles

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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Charles Marcus
<[hidden email]> wrote:
:
>
> If that is too much work for you or anyone else for that matter, then I
> accuse you (and them) of being (a) lazy sob(s)... ;)
>

Boo hoo (sobs? :-)!

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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On 2011-02-17 2:25 PM, MR ZenWiz wrote:
> Boo hoo (sobs? :-)!

SOB... 'Son of a ...'... ;)

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Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table Header on a New Page

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Charles Marcus
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2011-02-17 2:25 PM, MR ZenWiz wrote:
>> Boo hoo (sobs? :-)!
>
> SOB... 'Son of a ...'... ;)
>
Oh, I thought it was a typo (for slob).  Slobs sobbing about SOBs - it
just gets worse and worse....

I should have slept in another 15 minutes or so....

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top-posting

In reply to this post by MR ZenWiz





________________________________
From: MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 19:21:05
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: FEATURE REQUEST: CALC -- Repeating a Table
Header on a New Page

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
:
>
> Unfortunately it shows that bottom posting involves more work than most office
> workers are prepared to do and if we demand that they do all this then they
>will
> often consider it easier to reinstall MS Office rather than deal with this.  I
> know that is ridiculous.  Mostly they wont have un-installed MS Office so
there
> is even less reason for them to stay with LO.
>

Wellll, not really.  If you bottom post, on your way down through the
text to which you are replying, you can delete that which is not
needed in the reply.  (Not "you" personally, but anyone.)

Going back and proofreading a response is also a good idea - makes it
easier to see if what you said is legible....

And I often forget that last step, too.

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Hi :)

Yes, "on your way down" and "delete that which is not needed" and "Going back
and proofreading" do all take time and require effort that top-posting doesn't
require.  you might only have a 'small' amount of emails to deal with and 'ample
time' but office workers get hassled if they 'waste time' in that sort of way
unless they are sufficiently high-up in which case they are not going to follow
rules set by some outsider that has no impact on their pay-packet.
Regards from
Tom :)



     
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Re: top-posting

In reply to this post by MR ZenWiz
All the problems listed are solved by simply top-posting.  The reply is seen
instantly upon opening the email so no scrolling down is required.  If the email
doesn't instantly make sense then scrolling down puts it in context.  The more
people argue against top-posting the more i see why it is such a much better
way.  At first i was prepared to accept that there might be technical reasons
why bottom posting is better but now i am beginning to think that anything
except top posting is insane.  Still, i do sometimes have time to waste with
insanities otherwise i would have given up on LO much earlier in this thread.  


Regards from
Tom :)





________________________________
From: MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 17 February, 2011 19:15:56
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] top-posting

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
:
> The first point is not news; it's more 'olds'.  Same with the 2nd point.  The
> 3rd point is an unpopular idea in this list that leads to bullying and is just
> sad for an "Office Suite" list = it's an office suite for techies & geeks, not
> for normal corporate or mainstream office users.  While people harangue or
> harass or bully me about stating this rather than considering why i might make
> this claim it remains one of the reasons that blocks LibreOffice and
OpenOffice
> from widespread mainstream usage.
>

Tom, to be perfectly honest, while I really hate to bounce around in a
thread trying to figure out who said what in what order because of
mixed top, inline and bottom posting, it is possible (thought backing
up the thread is easier and clearer).

I object more to things like excessive blank lines (they add nothing
but a need to scroll through more space), introductory smileys (not
needed, waste of space like blank lines, etc.) and complete reposting
of large chunks of messages that a) were already posted on the thread
and b) don't relate directly to the current reply.

Why?

Because it makes me work harder to find what I need to know, weeded
out from that which I already knew.  Often as not, it only takes a
little effort to trim the excess, and that includes both top
(typically earlier replies) and bottom (mainly the footer, but
anything after the last new part of the reply).

Brevity is not only the soul of wit, it is in the essence of problem
solving - cut away that which is not directly relevant and you are
left with a clearer path to the solution, especially in email
discussions.

Just my $0.02.  FTR, I think most of your posts are very helpful to
the less experienced or sophisticated users, and sometimes even old
hats like me.

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Re: top-posting

On 2011-02-17 2:58 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> All the problems listed are solved by simply top-posting.

I give up.

Some people simply cannot see the forest for the trees...

Have a nice life Tom...

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Charles

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Re: top-posting

In reply to this post by Tom
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
:
>
> Yes, "on your way down" and "delete that which is not needed" and "Going back
> and proofreading" do all take time and require effort that top-posting doesn't
> require.  you might only have a 'small' amount of emails to deal with and 'ample
> time' but office workers get hassled if they 'waste time' in that sort of way
> unless they are sufficiently high-up in which case they are not going to follow
> rules set by some outsider that has no impact on their pay-packet.

The above reply displays a complete and utter disregard for anything
remotely approaching netiquette.

ANY reply deserves to be proofread - if you're going to take the time
to write it, you ought to read it.

The rest is just disrepectful crap - if you're going to help people,
do it well.  If that's too much trouble, don't do it at all.

I routinely process 200-300 emails a day in addition to my full-time
job, so I don't need lectures on what value to place on my time.  I
participate in these discussions to assist those who need it,
sometimes to guide those who don't know how, sometimes more sharply
than others, but clearly some ingrates aren't worth the effort.

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