[Forum]How will the forum be organized?

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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[Forum]How will the forum be organized?

https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
etc.)?
Regards
Ricardo

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James Wilde-2 James Wilde-2
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?


On Jan 9, 2011, at 16:04 , RGB ES wrote:

> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
> They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
> them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
> how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
> site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
> etc.)?

Good stuff, Ricardo.

I would imagine that the main headers will have to reflect the structure of the mailing lists, such as users, website, documentation, discuss, moderators and I believe there are one or two others that I'm not subscribed to.  I assume there is some way to determine which ones one has access to.  I wouldn't expect anyone but moderators and of course the systems people to have or need access to, say, the moderators forum for example.  And there might be a small section for off-topic stuff, such as a forum called introductions, where people could say hello, etc.   Somewhere, perhaps in the OT section, there should be a forum for suggestions and requests.

Within users, there should be the usual subdivisions of, say, getting, installing, and then one for each of the applications.  Also an announce forum, which might be read-only.

I'm assuming the moderators can fix so-called sticky threads, ones which remain at the top of the subdivision, such as forum rules, etc.  And I'm also assuming that the moderators can move threads if they appear in the wrong subdivision or even division.  And might even have the ability to make a person's account read-only if (s)he gets too stroppy.  That way the stroppy person can still see the messages, but cannot post except perhaps by sending a post to the moderators.

Naturally one expects that it will grow organically, and fora and sections will be added as they seem to be necessary, but it would be good to have a basic structure in place when it opens.

And BTW, I assume that there will be a prominent link on - preferably - the home page called Forum.

//James


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J.B. Nicholson-Owens J.B. Nicholson-Owens
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Forums bi-directionally cooperating with extant mailing lists?

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
RGB ES wrote:
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/

Will the forums be bi-directional where forum posts are echoed on the
appropriate mailing list in a non-thread-breaking way and vice versa?
It would be nice to not have to go to two separate places (mailing lists
and the new forums) to read what's going on.

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James Wilde-2 James Wilde-2
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Re: Forums bi-directionally cooperating with extant mailing lists?


On Jan 9, 2011, at 23:52 , J.B. Nicholson-Owens wrote:

> RGB ES wrote:
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
>
> Will the forums be bi-directional where forum posts are echoed on the appropriate mailing list in a non-thread-breaking way and vice versa? It would be nice to not have to go to two separate places (mailing lists and the new forums) to read what's going on.
>

That was the plan, but the forum and/or mailing list experts were not sure how soon it would be feasible.  And I'm not sure how a single mailing list like users would be able to handle postings to and from a subdivision like, say, the Calc section of the forum, let alone Joe Doe's thread in the Calc forum on how to format a date cell.  However, the mailing list can, of course, thread messages, so it shouldn't be impossible.

//James


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eskroni eskroni
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by James Wilde-2
Hi,

I feel bad to bring you bad news, but if I remember this correctly,
the forum, that comes with Silverstripe won't be used. Right now it is
just used for the people who want to work on the homepage to register
so that they can be given the appropriate rights.

Reason for not using those forums was that there are already a few
(good!) fora out there and we don't want to fight against them. In
contrast, I think, it was planned to link to those forums from our
website.

HTH

Sigrid

 PS: If I have written complete nonsense, then I'm sure, that one of
the founders / administrators will correct me. ;)

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Forums bi-directionally cooperating with extant mailing lists?

In reply to this post by J.B. Nicholson-Owens
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/

The forum  module on the website is meant for
user-registration/user-profile management.

> Will the forums be bi-directional where forum posts are echoed on the
> appropriate mailing list in a non-thread-breaking way and vice versa?

Nabble provides such an interface - currently it is being looked how
to incorporate it into the libreoffice.org website, until this is
down, you can reach it via
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/
There you'll find the LO mailinglists.

> It
> would be nice to not have to go to two separate places (mailing lists and
> the new forums) to read what's going on.

See above, the forums are not meant to be used (that's why there are
no acutal forums, and the page is not linked.

ciao
Christian

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by eskroni
Hi Sophie, *,

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 12:51 AM, Sigrid Carrera
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  PS: If I have written complete nonsense, then I'm sure, that one of
> the founders / administrators will correct me. ;)

No, your explanation was totally correct - the forum is only meant to
allow people to create an account to work on the website and to manage
their profile. Using the forum module just was easier than to write
user-login and user-profile management pages myself.

The only thing I could imagine using it would be to discuss
silverstripe/website specific problems, but then again: I personally
prefer the mailinglists.

For user support, the existing, dedicated forums should be used.

ciao
Christian

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

Hi, :-)

The idea I have presented to Christian is this:

The project has decided not to use forums as such for the English NL
main site on libreoffice.org

Instead, we have a Nabble interface to the mailing lists:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org

Nabble provides quite similar functionality to forums, while actually
being just a "front end" for the mailing lists.

Therefore, Nabble is a solution that caters to both mailing list
proponents and forum proponents.
More importantly, it gives site visitors and inexperienced users a
means of easily reading the mailing lists, with all the comfort and
convenience of a forum.

As part of the work being completed on the libreoffice.org site,
Christian and I are trying to integrate the Nabble interface into the
libreoffice.org site under the "Get Help" heading... with luck, you
will see it by today or tomorrow.

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: Forums bi-directionally cooperating with extant mailing lists?

In reply to this post by Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
Hi, :-)

The idea I have presented to Christian is this:

The project has decided not to use forums as such for the English NL
main site on libreoffice.org

Instead, we have a Nabble interface to the mailing lists:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org

Nabble provides quite similar functionality to forums, while actually
being just a "front end" for the mailing lists.

Therefore, Nabble is a solution that caters to both mailing list
proponents and forum proponents.
More importantly, it gives site visitors and inexperienced users a
means of easily reading the mailing lists, with all the comfort and
convenience of a forum.

As part of the work being completed on the libreoffice.org site,
Christian and I are trying to integrate the Nabble interface into the
libreoffice.org site under the "Get Help" heading... with luck, you
will see it by today or tomorrow.

David Nelson

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Andy Brown Andy Brown
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
On Sun Jan 09 2011 07:04:12 GMT-0800 (PST)  RGB ES wrote:
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
> They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
> them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
> how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
> site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
> etc.)?
> Regards
> Ricardo
>

Why add another forum?  There is already a LibO Forum at
http://libreofficeforum.org/forum .  The "Official" OOo Forum at
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ not only supports OOo but
off shoots such as Libo, NeoOffice and StarOffice.  The "Un-official"
Forum at http://www.oooforum.org/ is the oldest and largest OOo related
support forum around and has received LibO questions and answers in the
past few months.

Andy

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 16:04 +0100, RGB ES wrote:
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
> They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
> them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
> how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
> site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
> etc.)?
> Regards
> Ricardo
>

Howdy Ricardo,

May I just ask first, before responding to others. You where part of the
discussion on the user services forum, I think, at least I am pretty
sure you would have read the last discussion in the admin area.

So - do you think we should have a LibreOffice web forum?

Thanks

Drew



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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by davidnelson
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 08:24 +0800, David Nelson wrote:
> Instead, we have a Nabble interface to the mailing lists:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org 

Personally I would not use the forum functions in the nabble interface,
but as a straight view to the mailing list archives I don't see a
problem. I would explain why not the forum functions if you like, in a
follow up mail.

But for this email, if you guys want to integrate it I don't see why it
would not be easily done - I would think, don't know, it should be very
similar to adding the twitter notification box, or a CSE js.

There are pros and cons - Language is one. English only for the nabble
interface. But that isn't maybe a problem, if one limits it to the en
pages...anyway that would be the NL teams call I would say.

You can link in at any level - so a page can start at the user list, or
can start at the libreoffice level above, or a NL level.

For myself I would not use nabble as a substitute for a full forum, or
one of the newer forum/rate/FAQ style systems - but different subject
and different thread on the ML.

But that is just what I think, I registered the nabble site and intended
to make it public, I would not of used the forum functions, but since
then it's moved to the main site so it's not my call anymore.

Best wishes,

Drew





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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by Andy Brown
> >
>
> Why add another forum?  There is already a LibO Forum at
> http://libreofficeforum.org/forum .  The "Official" OOo Forum at
> http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ not only supports OOo but
> off shoots such as Libo, NeoOffice and StarOffice.  The "Un-official"
> Forum at http://www.oooforum.org/ is the oldest and largest OOo related
> support forum around and has received LibO questions and answers in the
> past few months.
>
Hi Andy


You missed one - there is a new site wanting to offer LibreOffice
support

- one of the newer UX designs, which to me looks pretty much like taking
the most common mods I see at support oriented web forums and throwing
away most of the fluff - then tie it into a wiki/FAQ and voila much
different and I think better experience.

- you can see the type of site here:
http://ask.debian.net/


The new LO specific site I think is http://libreoffice.shapado.com 

Anyway - I noticed the site a few days ago and the operators have
mentioned it on the lists, en and fr a few times.

Some will not want forums no matter what, for their own reasons and I
would not be so bold as to guess why. Some still want more cake.

Anyway - you are correct that for the moment the applications are close
enough that any of the existing sites can give reasonable help, that
will change quickly I think.

Best wishes,

Drew






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Andy Brown Andy Brown
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

On Sun Jan 09 2011 19:33:06 GMT-0800 (PST)  drew wrote:

> Hi Andy
>
>
> You missed one - there is a new site wanting to offer LibreOffice
> support
>
> - one of the newer UX designs, which to me looks pretty much like taking
> the most common mods I see at support oriented web forums and throwing
> away most of the fluff - then tie it into a wiki/FAQ and voila much
> different and I think better experience.
>
> - you can see the type of site here:
> http://ask.debian.net/
>
>
> The new LO specific site I think is http://libreoffice.shapado.com 

Thanks for the link.  Have added it to my list. :)  It is a new one for me.

> Anyway - I noticed the site a few days ago and the operators have
> mentioned it on the lists, en and fr a few times.
>
> Some will not want forums no matter what, for their own reasons and I
> would not be so bold as to guess why. Some still want more cake.

Since my computer time dates back to the old BBS days I prefer email
over forums but I can understand why some others would prefer forums,
for one time questions and not wanting to get overloaded with emails.

> Anyway - you are correct that for the moment the applications are close
> enough that any of the existing sites can give reasonable help, that
> will change quickly I think.

 From the replies I have seen on the forums there will be people around
that are following and using LibO so even if the differences get far
apart there will be those that can and will help.

> Best wishes,
>
> Drew

Hope you Holidays where happy and rewarding.

Andy

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 19:54 -0800, Andy Brown wrote:

>
> Since my computer time dates back to the old BBS days I prefer email
> over forums but I can understand why some others would prefer forums,
> for one time questions and not wanting to get overloaded with emails.
>

Actually, IMO, it isn't a question of web forums vs no web forums,
assuming our efforts are successful and a large number of LibreOffice
users materialize - something I feel strongly will happen - then sites
will open to support them, beyond just these two. OO.o (extended and
unofficial) had nearly two dozen different web forums or wikis scattered
about, and I bet I missed a few.

This is good I think, these third party support sites - it is the
economic engine of the FOSS world if you think about it.

The question is, I believe, only that of whether there is a web forum
within the project domains and I do understand that different people can
come to honest differences of opinion on the merit of that.

Thanks

Drew


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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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[libreoffice-website] [Forum] How will the forum be organized?

*** I have cross posted this mail to the website mailing list, for
discussions about web infrastructre ***

The feedback that I have already got from users interested in the
discussions around the Drupal project is that forums are a very
important mechanism in sourcing and providing help to end users.

One discussion that I had outside of the mailing list regarding the
support structure of arguably one of the more successful open source
projects, Ubuntu.

The structure for end users to source expert support for all aspects
of the product hinges off the Wiki and the forums. There is a little
more formal structure within these forums due to the breadth of the
software that is supported, and usually when you can't work out
something the wiki or forum is the first search result, containing
detailed troubleshooting and problem solving for almost any issue an
end user is likely to encounter.

IMO The provision of product specific support structures that is
dedicated to the product, in our case LibreOffice, is not only
essential for non-technical end users, it is one of the best marketing
tools available for an open source community. Your average end user
will likely never search through mailing list threads, even if they
contain exactly the information they are looking for. A well presented
forum running from a dedicated forum system such as vBulletin or phpBB
provides the end user with interface familiarity and branding which
builds trust in the brand and community.

Both phpBB and vBulletin are able to be fully integrated with all
major CMS systems to include single sign on, profile and session
sharing.
For Example:
Drupal: http://drupal.org/node/32879  http://drupal.org/project/phpbb
Joomla: http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/communication/forum-bridges
Plone :https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum/server/Plone

As I understand it, Silverstripe is a long way behind all the major
CMS systems in terms of 3rd party integration, but looking through the
forums I have seen that there are a few people who have hacked
Silverstripe in order to allow some basic functionality:
http://www.silverstripe.org/archive/show/2593

If we did provide a user forum, which I believe we should, using a
dedicated forum system will provide far more functionality and
usability, as well as regular security updates than we could ever hope
to code and maintain ourselves without drawing on resources that could
be used for development of LibreOffice.

What do others think? Is the forum support option important for trust
building and familiarity? What system would we use?

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: Forums bi-directionally cooperating with extant mailing lists?

In reply to this post by J.B. Nicholson-Owens
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 8:22 AM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
>
> Will the forums be bi-directional where forum posts are echoed on the
> appropriate mailing list in a non-thread-breaking way and vice versa? It
> would be nice to not have to go to two separate places (mailing lists and
> the new forums) to read what's going on.

A section of the website team working on the goal of a more powerful
website based on Drupal is working on this at the moment.
Drupal has this functionality out of the box with a bit of configuration.
It also allows messages across other communication media such as XMPP,
SMS or social networks to be replied to, but we haven't got that far
yet. :)

If you wanted more information or have ideas about what functionality
you would like to see please feel free to ask.

Michael Wheatland

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James Wilde-2 James Wilde-2
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
Sorry Ricardo - and everyone else.  I've obviously missed something in here.  It was presumably the Nabble interface I was thinking of.

//James

On Jan 9, 2011, at 16:04 , RGB ES wrote:

> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/forums/
> They are "hidden" (no link on the help page) and you cannot post on
> them yet, but they exists and you can register ;) So my question is:
> how those forums will be organized? There will be one for each local
> site or only one on English? Categories? Organization (moderators,
> etc.)?
> Regards
> Ricardo
>
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Stefan Weigel Stefan Weigel
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

In reply to this post by eskroni
Hi,

Am 10.01.2011 00:51, schrieb Sigrid Carrera:

> Reason for not using those forums was that there are already a few
> (good!) fora out there and we don't want to fight against them. In
> contrast, I think, it was planned to link to those forums from our
> website.

Yes. This has been disussed and explained at length.

We do not want to devide the knowledge and experience, that is
contained in the few well-proven forums, that have been existing for
years. We´d better point to these, rather than establishing yet
another forum.

That´s why I even advocate closing down http://libreofficeforum.org/

However, there is lots of discussion about creating yet another
forum. And I fear lots of energy is being put into this. Kind of
makes me desperate.

Stefan




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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: [Forum]How will the forum be organized?

Hi Stefan, * :-)

On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 18:21, Stefan Weigel
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> However, there is lots of discussion about creating yet another
> forum. And I fear lots of energy is being put into this. Kind of
> makes me desperate.

But given that Nabble is simply an interface onto our own mailing
lists, can I assume you don't have anything against a Nabble
integration into the libreoffice.org website, under "Get Help"?

(Can possibly be configured for read-only access, or can allow sending
to lists after login.)

David Nelson

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