Headings with custom list not working

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steelej steelej
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Headings with custom list not working

I am trying to create headings using a Custom List to define the heading format. This is not working. It should be trivial.

What I am doing is the create a Custom List using Outline and making the levels on the left margin - e.g. "Doc Headings2

1.    Heading 1
1.1. Heading 2
1.1.3 Heading 3

The preview in the List style shows exactly what I want.

I then create custom Heading styles, each derived from Heading 1, Heading 2 and Heading 3 - DocHdg 1, Doc Hdg 2 and DocHdg 3

In each case I set the Outline Level to 1, 2, 3 respectively. I then apply my custom headings and get

1. DocHdg 1
2. DocHdg 2
3. DocHdg 3

This is not what I expected or wanted. In other words the Outline level in the Paragraph Style is being ignored and level 1 list formatting is being applied

The Status bar shows the numbering format as "Doc Heading : Level 1 Outline 1" (or 2 or 3 depending on the style chosen) which at least explains why the behaviour is happening.

Why is the Outline level in the style being ignored and Level 1 being applied?
Is this a bug?

I can see no rationale for the observed behaviour but the way in which I expected LO to work seems logical and would give great flexibility.
Mirosław Zalewski Mirosław Zalewski
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

On 11/11/2011 at 23:26, steelej <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am trying to create headings using a Custom List to define the heading
> format. This is not working. It should be trivial.

Why are you not using Tools → Outline Numbering?

> This is not what I expected or wanted. In other words the Outline level in
> the Paragraph Style is being ignored and level 1 list formatting is being
> applied

I am afraid that you have to manually adjust level using Demote one level
button from Bullets and Numbering toolbar. Or by placing cursor at beginning
of the line and pressing Tab (but you probably know that).

Hopefully someone has better solution, though.
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Mirosław Zalewski

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steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

I agree that using the standard headings and customising inbuilt outline numbering style will work. What it will not do however is to allow a separate numbering style for special sections such as appendices, or with some documents a set of annexes, each containing their own appendices.

It seems that the Open office/Libre office approach to Templates makes sense. I have been using Templates with Microsoft Word for nearly 20 years for a wide variety of (computer system related) technical documents including design specifications and proposal material. These documents often have to conform with precise document structures imposed by the client.

I use Libre Office on my home computers and am currently trying to generate an "all purpose" LO Template that I can use for a series of "How to" documents targeted at my local computer club members, and my professional pride wants these to be properly structured. I have enough experience to know what I need to include in such a Template having created a large number of Word Templates in the past.

I also have a talk scheduled for early January where I want to show the computer club members how to use LO Templates and intend to cover how to use styles effectively. I intend to use the Template mentioned above as the basis of my talk.

It is these two objectives that led me to discover that what I considered to be a major advantage to LO does not in fact work properly. Why is the Outline Level being ignored and a Level 1 being substituted?

I will have to avoid the introduction of Appendices for now until I can find a way of doing it, and live with the inbuilt outline style. I am however very disappointed that custom lists do not work with Headings although frustratingly they almost do.

Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

steelej wrote (12-11-11 12:11)
> I agree that using the standard headings and customising inbuilt outline
> numbering style will work. What it will not do however is to allow a
> separate numbering style for special sections such as appendices, or with
> some documents a set of annexes, each containing their own appendices.

For those I create separate styles, based on default, with the same
properties as the heading styles. For these separate styles I set the
numbering at the tab Outline & Numbering.
Including in the TOC can be done by the button Additional styles at the
tab Index/table of the Insert Index/table dialog.

HTH,

(cc-ing you, since you're not subscribed to the list)

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steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

Yes - I will have to explore workarounds. I have not looked at Table of Contents yet but am adept with MS Word and LO usually does similar things. I do not foresee a problem there (but then I did not see a problem with Headings, it seemed so intuitive )

The Headings issue is the only case I have found so far where something that is relatively easy to do in MS Word seems to be very well designed in LO but not correctly implemented. I cannot envisage any situation where the Outline Level, as defined in the Style ,should not be used. Why should it always enforce Level 1 whatever you put in the Outline Level?

What I want to do is have a style like

Document title (no number)
1. Heading 1
1.1. Heading 2
1.1.1 Heading 3

for the main body of the document and

Appendix A appendix title
A.1 appendix Hdg 1
A.1.1 Appendix Hdg 2
A.1.1.1 Appendix Hdg 3

For appendices - this should be simple. I might also want a difference heading style for the legal preamble at the front.

I have done all this many times in Word.
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

steelej wrote (12-11-11 23:59)
> Yes - I will have to explore workarounds. I have not looked at Table of
> [...]

erm, you mean 'documentation' ;-)
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/

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steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

I do believe in reading documentation! It is an area where LO is generally quite good but still has some gaps and I find experimentation is necessary. Tables of contents seem to be very straightforward so far. I will be preparing a simple guide for a talk early January on an introduction to styles and how to create and use them. I will be willing to offer this (assuming I can solve my heading issue!)

I am still a bit confused for example about Chapters and exactly where the Chapter number can be included. From what I have read this can be added to Captions as a prefix. I have failed to find any mention of it in connection with Heading styles. I have sometimes had to include a field into the numbering styles in Word to get the presentation I want and it takes a bit on ingenuity to get this into the number definition but it does work. I have not tried this in LO yet.

Note that Captioning is something I personally added to MS Word 2 with a set of Macros. MS implementation in Office 95 and onwards is functionally identical. I have often wondered if they were one of the 100 people I offered it to as shareware in 1992 (and never received a penny).
Tom Tom
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

Hi :)
I prefer the GPL and similar copyleft licences because even tho you still get no money it is still theoretically possible to sell Cds and stuff with the software on it.  More importantly if someone uses your code they can't suddenly re-licence it and block you from using your own work anywhere else. 
Regards from
Tom :)

--- On Sun, 13/11/11, steelej <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: steelej <[hidden email]>
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Headings with custom list not working
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, 13 November, 2011, 23:59

I do believe in reading documentation! It is an area where LO is generally
quite good but still has some gaps and I find experimentation is necessary.
Tables of contents seem to be very straightforward so far. I will be
preparing a simple guide for a talk early January on an introduction to
styles and how to create and use them. I will be willing to offer this
(assuming I can solve my heading issue!)

I am still a bit confused for example about Chapters and exactly where the
Chapter number can be included. From what I have read this can be added to
Captions as a prefix. I have failed to find any mention of it in connection
with Heading styles. I have sometimes had to include a field into the
numbering styles in Word to get the presentation I want and it takes a bit
on ingenuity to get this into the number definition but it does work. I have
not tried this in LO yet.

Note that Captioning is something I personally added to MS Word 2 with a set
of Macros. MS implementation in Office 95 and onwards is functionally
identical. I have often wondered if they were one of the 100 people I
offered it to as shareware in 1992 (and never received a penny).

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Mirosław Zalewski Mirosław Zalewski
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

In reply to this post by steelej
steelej,

I think that there is no obvious way to achieve what you want. I think that
you could experiment with outline numbering. I mean, there are 10 styles
total, while most of time you need like 3 or 4; so you can pretend that
instead of 10 styles you have two times 5 styles and adjust 6-10 completely
different than 1-5. I did not test it myself, but it may work.

Anyway, this is only dirty workaround. I have submitted enhancement request on
LO bugzilla. You can read it:
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42920>

Please add any comments if necessary and feel free to add yourself to CC list,
so you will get e-mail notification for any new comment.
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Mirosław Zalewski

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

Hi Mirosław,

Mirosław Zalewski wrote (14-11-11 14:15)

> I think that there is no obvious way to achieve what you want.

Sorry that I did not make some time before for more explanation.

> I have submitted enhancement request on
> LO bugzilla. You can read it:
> <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42920>

I'll add a file there with how it can be done properly, IMHO

Please have a look and comment.
Thanks,

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steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

In reply to this post by Tom
<quote author="Tom">
Hi :)
I prefer the GPL and similar copyleft licences because even tho you still get no money it is still theoretically possible to sell Cds and stuff with the software on it.  More importantly if someone uses your code they can't suddenly re-licence it and block you from using your own work anywhere else. 
Regards from
Tom :)

I am using the Creative Commons licenses for documents. I did hope to get some return in 1992 when I made the Word Macros  available via USENET. the WWW was not widely available then!! I did encrypt them but I was sure even then that the encryption was crackable.
steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
Cor Nouws wrote
Hi Mirosław,

Mirosław Zalewski wrote (14-11-11 14:15)

> I think that there is no obvious way to achieve what you want.

Sorry that I did not make some time before for more explanation.

> I have submitted enhancement request on
> LO bugzilla. You can read it:
> <https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42920>

I'll add a file there with how it can be done properly, IMHO

Please have a look and comment.
Thanks,

--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
I have read your request and hope that the suggestion is soon adopted.

Thank you

Meanwhile I will just use a single Outline style and look into appendices later

John
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

Hi John,

steelej wrote (14-11-11 20:56)
> Cor Nouws wrote:
>> Mirosław Zalewski wrote (14-11-11 14:15)

>>> I have submitted enhancement request on LO bugzilla. You can read
>>> it: &lt;https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42920&gt;
>>
>> I'll add a file there with how it can be done properly, IMHO
>>
>> Please have a look and comment. Thanks,
>
> I have read your request and hope that the suggestion is soon
> adopted.
>
> Thank you
>
> Meanwhile I will just use a single Outline style and look into
> appendices later

Hey ho !
Looks as if you did not read the post that you replied to :-)

Your  " I have read your request and hope ... " refers to the submitted
issue.
However, I post you a solution, and you skip reading that?
Should I really feel disappointed :-\   or will you be checking the
document later and reply again :-)

Thanks!
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steelej steelej
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

Cor Nouws wrote
.......

Hey ho !
Looks as if you did not read the post that you replied to :-)

Your  " I have read your request and hope ... " refers to the submitted
issue.
However, I post you a solution, and you skip reading that?
Should I really feel disappointed :-\   or will you be checking the
document later and reply again :-)

Thanks!
--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
I did read it - honest. Your second post was not there at the time!

I have now created a bugzilla account and will add some comments in there.
John
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Headings with custom list not working

steelej wrote (14-11-11 23:57)
> I did read it - honest. Your second post was not there at the time!

Ah, OK, Can happen indeed!

> I have now created a bugzilla account and will add some comments in there.

Look forward to your comments. See how far we can get,

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