How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

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Dave Barton-4 Dave Barton-4
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How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Since I got no response to an earlier post to this list, I attempted
to post in the Ask forum. Numerous attempts to post failed. I guess a
bug report in Bugzilla is now the only option.

I recall some murmurings about TDF seeking an alternative to the Ask
software. In my opinion, this should happen sooner rather than later.

Dave

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Rob Rob
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Dave,

I never had a problem with ask. I just get there the easy way by clicking Help -> Get help online.
Type you question (or keyword) to find equivalent questions and answers, after that click the orange button to ask the question.

Success,
Rob.

> Op 16 feb. 2021, om 13:52 heeft Dave Barton <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Since I got no response to an earlier post to this list, I attempted
> to post in the Ask forum. Numerous attempts to post failed. I guess a
> bug report in Bugzilla is now the only option.
>
> I recall some murmurings about TDF seeking an alternative to the Ask
> software. In my opinion, this should happen sooner rather than later.
>
> Dave
>
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Dave Barton-4 Dave Barton-4
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Thanks for taking the time to reply Rob.
Unfortunately my experience of Ask is the total opposite of yours.
I log into Ask enter my question, add the details, tags, go through
the "I'm not a robot" reCAPTCHA and click the "Ask Your Question"
button and ZIP, nothing happens.
Tried with 4 different browsers and 3 OS, with same result.

Dave

-------- Original Message --------
From: Rob Jasper [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 14:33 UTC
To: Dave Barton
Cc: LibreOffice Users
Subject: [libreoffice-users] How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

> Dave,
>
> I never had a problem with ask. I just get there the easy way by
> clicking Help -> Get help online. Type you question (or keyword) to
> find equivalent questions and answers, after that click the orange
> button to ask the question.
>
> Success, Rob.
>
>> Op 16 feb. 2021, om 13:52 heeft Dave Barton
>> <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Since I got no response to an earlier post to this list, I
>> attempted to post in the Ask forum. Numerous attempts to post
>> failed. I guess a bug report in Bugzilla is now the only option.
>>
>> I recall some murmurings about TDF seeking an alternative to the
>> Ask software. In my opinion, this should happen sooner rather
>> than later.
>>
>> Dave

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Dave Barton-4 Dave Barton-4
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Hi Don,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Yes, as I said in my previous post "I log into Ask".

Even though I am not a fan of forums, I have posted to Ask in the past
and I was able to get my question listed. I guess there is some kind
of pretend AI sniffing at Ask questions and coming up with false
positives. Although I find it impossible to see anything in my very
reasonable and rational question which would trigger this defect.

Dave

-------- Original Message --------
From: Don Morse [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 17:43 UTC
To: Dave Barton
Subject: [libreoffice-users] How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

> just used it myself, aside from "Tags" getting upset with me based
> on what I was entering, it worked perfectly.
>
> you do have to be logged in to use the feature.
>
>
> don.m
>
> On 2/16/21 7:31 AM, Dave Barton wrote:
>> Thanks for taking the time to reply Rob. Unfortunately my
>> experience of Ask is the total opposite of yours. I log into Ask
>> enter my question, add the details, tags, go through the "I'm not
>> a robot" reCAPTCHA and click the "Ask Your Question" button and
>> ZIP, nothing happens. Tried with 4 different browsers and 3 OS,
>> with same result.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -------- Original Message -------- From: Rob Jasper
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 14:33
>> UTC To: Dave Barton Cc: LibreOffice Users Subject:
>> [libreoffice-users] How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?
>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> I never had a problem with ask. I just get there the easy way
>>> by clicking Help -> Get help online. Type you question (or
>>> keyword) to find equivalent questions and answers, after that
>>> click the orange button to ask the question.
>>>
>>> Success, Rob.
>>>
>>>> Op 16 feb. 2021, om 13:52 heeft Dave Barton
>>>> <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>
>>>> Since I got no response to an earlier post to this list, I
>>>> attempted to post in the Ask forum. Numerous attempts to
>>>> post failed. I guess a bug report in Bugzilla is now the only
>>>> option.
>>>>
>>>> I recall some murmurings about TDF seeking an alternative to
>>>> the Ask software. In my opinion, this should happen sooner
>>>> rather than later.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>


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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

In reply to this post by Dave Barton-4
Dave,

Like Rob, I've never had a problem with the mechanics of asking on AskLibO, but a few weeks ago asked a "meta"-question related to yours ("LO help communities", Jan.21, if you want to look it up in Nabble): How to determine the best place to ask a question. LO has a rich panoply of help resources -- most notably AsLibO and this list, with some great people sharing their knowledge on both, but usually (with notable exceptions) staying within one venue. [AskLibO tends to get more traffic than this list.]

Given that diversity, and the fact that time is limited, it's perfectly reasonable that people with knowledge, and a conscientious willingness to share it, simply won't see questions for which they might have answers. I don't know how to mitigate that problem, because I don't know how to integrate the web-based AskLibO with a mailing list (or even with the web-based Nabble forum).

Reading between lines of the archives, I infer that the Ask system is or was a project of Drew Jensen, who has been extremely helpful also as a content contributor to LO in lots of ways, including on this list (and the earlier OO list), as well as on AskLibO. Your LO email address indicates that you may know him or have worked with him. Maybe you could take it up with him directly on both these issues. Likely he has answers about your posting problems, and he may have thoughts, from his Ask experience, about the number of questions that don't make it to the full range of people with answers. If there are concerns in TDF about the Ask system, that could be a particularly apt discussion at this time.

John


On 2021-02-16 10:31, Dave Barton wrote:

> Thanks for taking the time to reply Rob.
> Unfortunately my experience of Ask is the total opposite of yours.
> I log into Ask enter my question, add the details, tags, go through
> the "I'm not a robot" reCAPTCHA and click the "Ask Your Question"
> button and ZIP, nothing happens.
> Tried with 4 different browsers and 3 OS, with same result.
>
> Dave
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Rob Jasper
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 14:33 UTC
> To: Dave Barton
> Cc: LibreOffice Users
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I never had a problem with ask. I just get there the easy way by
>> clicking Help -> Get help online. Type you question (or keyword) to
>> find equivalent questions and answers, after that click the orange
>> button to ask the question.
>>
>> Success, Rob.
>>
>>> Op 16 feb. 2021, om 13:52 heeft Dave Barton het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> Since I got no response to an earlier post to this list, I
>>> attempted to post in the Ask forum. Numerous attempts to post
>>> failed. I guess a bug report in Bugzilla is now the only option.
>>>
>>> I recall some murmurings about TDF seeking an alternative to the
>>> Ask software. In my opinion, this should happen sooner rather
>>> than later.
>>>
>>> Dave

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sophie sophie
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Hi all,

Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask forum
by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members regularly
answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a Q&A forum, it is
the most appropriate at the moment and we can extend it to serve other
purposes on the future.
The difficulty is currently to migrate the Ask archive to Discourse, but
that will be worked out by our infra team on the next months.

Concerning your difficulty to post on the forum, Dave, you should ask
for help on the website list, I will have a look at your account on Ask,
but it's better to describe your problem on this list.

Le 16/02/2021 à 19:59, John Kaufmann a écrit :
> Dave,
>
[...]

Kind regards
Sophie

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IRC: sophi
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Ade Malsasa Akbar Ade Malsasa Akbar
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask forum
by Discourse.

Hi sophi, that is a good news! Thank you very much and we are waiting
happily for that. Greetings to all LibreOffice developers.

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Dave Barton-4 Dave Barton-4
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

In reply to this post by sophie
On 17/02/2021 09:06, sophi wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask forum
> by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members regularly
> answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a Q&A forum, it is
> the most appropriate at the moment and we can extend it to serve other
> purposes on the future.
> The difficulty is currently to migrate the Ask archive to Discourse, but
> that will be worked out by our infra team on the next months.
>
> Concerning your difficulty to post on the forum, Dave, you should ask
> for help on the website list, I will have a look at your account on Ask,
> but it's better to describe your problem on this list.
>
> Le 16/02/2021 à 19:59, John Kaufmann a écrit :
>> Dave,
>>
> [...]
>
> Kind regards
> Sophie

Hi Sophie,

Thanks for the update on the possible future of our forum.

I doubt my account is the cause of the issue, because I have no trouble
logging into Ask. The problem only manifests itself when I try to post.
However, I will follow your recommendation and post on the website list.

Best Regards
Dave

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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

In reply to this post by sophie
On 2021-02-17 04:06, sophi wrote:

> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask forum
> by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members regularly
> answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a Q&A forum, it is
> the most appropriate at the moment and we can extend it to serve other
> purposes on the future.
> The difficulty is currently to migrate the Ask archive to Discourse, but
> that will be worked out by our infra team on the next months.

Looks interesting, and seems to have potential to subsume also the mailing list system. (It needs to be integrated with a MTA, which it does not provide, but merging web and mailing list forums seems to be an explicit objective.) If so, that could solve the problem of which forum (AskLibO or mailing list) to use for a question. Is the intent to also migrate the mailing lists to Discourse?


BTW, it was amusing to learn that not everyone is a fan. The Wikipedia description is the third hit on a search "discourse forum" in both DuckDuckGo and Google, but they summarize it differently:
        Google:     "Discourse is an open source Internet forum and mailing list management software application ..."
        DuckDuckGo: "Discourse is an awful open source Internet forum and mailing list management software application ..."
:-)
FWIW, I look forward to seeing it,
-John

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Dave Howorth Dave Howorth
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:03:41 -0500
John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2021-02-17 04:06, sophi wrote:
>
> > Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask
> > forum by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members
> > regularly answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a
> > Q&A forum, it is the most appropriate at the moment and we can
> > extend it to serve other purposes on the future.
> > The difficulty is currently to migrate the Ask archive to
> > Discourse, but that will be worked out by our infra team on the
> > next months.  
>
> Looks interesting, and seems to have potential to subsume also the
> mailing list system. (It needs to be integrated with a MTA, which it
> does not provide, but merging web and mailing list forums seems to be
> an explicit objective.) If so, that could solve the problem of which
> forum (AskLibO or mailing list) to use for a question. Is the intent
> to also migrate the mailing lists to Discourse?

I seriously hope not! Discourse works OK as a forum but the mailing
list side is very much a poor cousin. Far easier and better to use a
plain mailing list IME & IMHO.

> BTW, it was amusing to learn that not everyone is a fan. The
> Wikipedia description is the third hit on a search "discourse forum"
> in both DuckDuckGo and Google, but they summarize it differently:
> Google:     "Discourse is an open source Internet forum and mailing
> list management software application ..." DuckDuckGo: "Discourse is
> an awful open source Internet forum and mailing list management
> software application ..." :-) FWIW, I look forward to seeing it, -John
>


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sophie sophie
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

Hi all,

Le 17/02/2021 à 16:22, Dave Howorth a écrit :

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:03:41 -0500
> John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-02-17 04:06, sophi wrote:
>>
>>> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask
>>> forum by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members
>>> regularly answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a
>>> Q&A forum, it is the most appropriate at the moment and we can
>>> extend it to serve other purposes on the future.
>>> The difficulty is currently to migrate the Ask archive to
>>> Discourse, but that will be worked out by our infra team on the
>>> next months.  
>>
>> Looks interesting, and seems to have potential to subsume also the
>> mailing list system. (It needs to be integrated with a MTA, which it
>> does not provide, but merging web and mailing list forums seems to be
>> an explicit objective.) If so, that could solve the problem of which
>> forum (AskLibO or mailing list) to use for a question. Is the intent
>> to also migrate the mailing lists to Discourse?
>
> I seriously hope not! Discourse works OK as a forum but the mailing
> list side is very much a poor cousin. Far easier and better to use a
> plain mailing list IME & IMHO.

haha! this is always the same: some dislike it, others want it
absolutely ;-) So to make it clear, we will not replace mailing lists,
but maybe, as we do between IRC/Telegram/Matrix, add a bridge between
Discourse and the mailing lists, something like what Nabble is doing
currently (allowing then to remove Nabble which is an external service),
making everybody happy :) This will be in a second step, moving from Ask
is the first, we have several languages hosted on Ask, so it's a huge move.

Cheers
Sophie

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IRC: sophi
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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

In reply to this post by Dave Howorth
On 2021-02-17 10:22, Dave Howorth wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:03:41 -0500 John Kaufmann wrote:
>> On 2021-02-17 04:06, sophi wrote:
>>
>>> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask
>>> forum by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members
>>> regularly answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a
>>> Q&A forum, it is the most appropriate at the moment and we can
>>> extend it to serve other purposes on the future. ...
>>
>> Looks interesting, and seems to have potential to subsume also the
>> mailing list system. (It needs to be integrated with a MTA, which it
>> does not provide, but merging web and mailing list forums seems to be
>> an explicit objective.) If so, that could solve the problem of which
>> forum (AskLibO or mailing list) to use for a question. Is the intent
>> to also migrate the mailing lists to Discourse?
>
> I seriously hope not! Discourse works OK as a forum but the mailing
> list side is very much a poor cousin. Far easier and better to use a
> plain mailing list IME & IMHO.

I sympathize, Dave; I also like a mailing list or newsgroup. It sounds like you know Discourse and find the mailing list side wanting. But if Discourse is an attempt to serve in a single forum users comfortable in both media, it may at least /become/ a solution to the problem of a fragmented user knowledge base.

I'm hopeful,
-John

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Dave Howorth Dave Howorth
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:36:34 -0500
John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2021-02-17 10:22, Dave Howorth wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:03:41 -0500 John Kaufmann wrote:  
> >> On 2021-02-17 04:06, sophi wrote:
> >>  
> >>> Just to let you know, we, at TDF, are working on replacing the Ask
> >>> forum by Discourse. We have had a test period with the members
> >>> regularly answering on Ask. If Discourse is not fully replacing a
> >>> Q&A forum, it is the most appropriate at the moment and we can
> >>> extend it to serve other purposes on the future. ...  
> >>
> >> Looks interesting, and seems to have potential to subsume also the
> >> mailing list system. (It needs to be integrated with a MTA, which
> >> it does not provide, but merging web and mailing list forums seems
> >> to be an explicit objective.) If so, that could solve the problem
> >> of which forum (AskLibO or mailing list) to use for a question. Is
> >> the intent to also migrate the mailing lists to Discourse?  
> >
> > I seriously hope not! Discourse works OK as a forum but the mailing
> > list side is very much a poor cousin. Far easier and better to use a
> > plain mailing list IME & IMHO.  
>
> I sympathize, Dave; I also like a mailing list or newsgroup. It
> sounds like you know Discourse and find the mailing list side
> wanting. But if Discourse is an attempt to serve in a single forum
> users comfortable in both media, it may at least /become/ a solution
> to the problem of a fragmented user knowledge base.

In my experience it becomes a way of forcing the email users to use the
web forum instead. The only purpose the email interface serves in
practice is notifying of web posts.

Even a bridge as Sophie suggests is likely to kill the mailing list
IMHO.

> I'm hopeful,
> -John

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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?


On 2021-02-17 16:07, Dave Howorth wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:36:34 -0500 John Kaufmann wrote:
> ...
>> ... It sounds like you know Discourse and find the mailing list
>> side wanting. But if Discourse is an attempt to serve in a single
>> forum users comfortable in both media, it may at least /become/ a
>> solution to the problem of a fragmented user knowledge base.
>
> In my experience it becomes a way of forcing the email users to use
> the web forum instead. The only purpose the email interface serves
> in practice is notifying of web posts.

AskLibO already gives us that. I have to believe (and certainly hope) Discourse offers something more.

> Even a bridge as Sophie suggests is likely to kill the mailing list IMHO.

If "kill" means changing the list address, that may be a price worth paying for a larger user base. (FTM, I wonder how the larger user base on AskLibO will react/adapt to Discourse.) If it means losing anyone now on the mailing list, I can only hope that is incorrect.

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Dave Howorth Dave Howorth
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Re: How to ask a question on Ask LibreOffice?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:03:24 -0500
John Kaufmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2021-02-17 16:07, Dave Howorth wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:36:34 -0500 John Kaufmann wrote:
> > ...  
> >> ... It sounds like you know Discourse and find the mailing list
> >> side wanting. But if Discourse is an attempt to serve in a single
> >> forum users comfortable in both media, it may at least /become/ a
> >> solution to the problem of a fragmented user knowledge base.  
> >
> > In my experience it becomes a way of forcing the email users to use
> > the web forum instead. The only purpose the email interface serves
> > in practice is notifying of web posts.  
>
> AskLibO already gives us that. I have to believe (and certainly hope)
> Discourse offers something more.
>
> > Even a bridge as Sophie suggests is likely to kill the mailing list
> > IMHO.  
>
> If "kill" means changing the list address,

Why on earth would you think 'kill' might mean changing a list address?

It means reducing the number of users of it to zero. i.e. the number of
users who use the mailing list and do not use the forum. The mailing
list will cease to exist as an entity. It will fall off its perch.

> that may be a price worth
> paying for a larger user base. (FTM, I wonder how the larger user
> base on AskLibO will react/adapt to Discourse.) If it means losing
> anyone now on the mailing list, I can only hope that is incorrect.


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