Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Howdy,

I was working with some screen shots and wanted to put together a graphic
covering the new notebook UI in the desktop version of LO and show the
newer LO platforms. This would be used for a couple of social media posts.

I used the community LO logo and wanted to run this by the list here and
make sure there is no problems with how I am using this.

A copy is on the NC server, direct link if you have an account there is
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/f/84126

So take a look, I might still make a change or two, but I wouldn't change
the logo usage at this point. Also I'll leave the jpeg in the shared
Marketing folder there if you like.

Thanks and best wishes,

Drew

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K-J LibreOffice K-J LibreOffice
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hi Drew,
Am 23.11.2018 um 01:01 schrieb Drew Jensen:
[...]

> So take a look, I might still make a change or two, but I wouldn't change
> the logo usage at this point. Also I'll leave the jpeg in the shared
> Marketing folder there if you like.

The background is for me somehow a kind of ironic: An oldish background
while talking about the newer LO platforms.

Perhaps you can provide a link and a QR-Code on the poster where the
user finds a description of changing the UI (notebook bar, Persona) or
to documentation or so.


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k-j

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kainz.a kainz.a
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

As LibO has very different UI's on different devices or cause the user can
choise it's not that easy to make a good poster about it (to much content).

LibO work on different OS on different devices and in addition LibO can
change according to the users need.

I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
Poster.

eg.

LibreOffice on Windows: with Tabbed Toolbar and Colibre Icons -> perfect
fit on Win10
LibreOffice on GTK: with Grouped compact Toolbar and Elementary icons ->
Grouped compact will follow the only main functions in the UI approach from
Gnome.
LibreOffice on OS-X: with global menu and Standard Toolbar -> Global
menubar fit's OS-X users workflow
LibreOffice Online: with gdoc's UI and Breeze icon -> your Office suite for
everywhere

Fancy screenshot with personas whatever to show what's possible, but at
least I would make a second poster with what's possible.

cheers
Andreas_K

Am Fr., 23. Nov. 2018 um 08:34 Uhr schrieb K-J LibreOffice <
[hidden email]>:

> Hi Drew,
> Am 23.11.2018 um 01:01 schrieb Drew Jensen:
> [...]
>
> > So take a look, I might still make a change or two, but I wouldn't change
> > the logo usage at this point. Also I'll leave the jpeg in the shared
> > Marketing folder there if you like.
>
> The background is for me somehow a kind of ironic: An oldish background
> while talking about the newer LO platforms.
>
> Perhaps you can provide a link and a QR-Code on the poster where the
> user finds a description of changing the UI (notebook bar, Persona) or
> to documentation or so.
>
>
> --
> Grüße
> k-j
>
> Member of TheDocumentFoundation
> https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/
> https://de.libreoffice.org
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/
>
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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Well, thanks for all the good feedback.

I have to agree with most of it - this piece ended being a bad decision,
and of course adding some adornments ended up making it a bad idea with a
pretty background (or as an old saying where I live would put it, You can
put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig).

Anyway - will scratch that piece and try to focus on the Toolbar change.

Will keep you posted.

Best wishes,

Drew

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:47 AM Mike Saunders <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> >
> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> one
> > Poster.
>
> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>
> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>
> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> on social media ;-) )
>
> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>
> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>
> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>
> Mike
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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kainz.a kainz.a
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

We add one or two release ago gradients maybe you can use one. I would love
to see that you can do awesome things with the defaults.

There is a white to gray gradient.

Cheers

Am Fr., 23. Nov. 2018, 20:07 hat Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
geschrieben:

> Well, thanks for all the good feedback.
>
> I have to agree with most of it - this piece ended being a bad decision,
> and of course adding some adornments ended up making it a bad idea with a
> pretty background (or as an old saying where I live would put it, You can
> put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig).
>
> Anyway - will scratch that piece and try to focus on the Toolbar change.
>
> Will keep you posted.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:47 AM Mike Saunders <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> > >
> > > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> > one
> > > Poster.
> >
> > Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> > I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> > Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> > can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
> >
> > The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> > focus on one or two variants of it and say:
> >
> > * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> > changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> > on social media ;-) )
> >
> > * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
> >
> > * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
> >
> > IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> > same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> > but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> > if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> > screenshots, I think we can make it work...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
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> >
>
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Great, I had intended to mention that in the last email, I could see that a
different look was in use recently.

Is the wiki the place to find the details and artifacts still?

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:14 PM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We add one or two release ago gradients maybe you can use one. I would
> love to see that you can do awesome things with the defaults.
>
> There is a white to gray gradient.
>
> Cheers
>
> Am Fr., 23. Nov. 2018, 20:07 hat Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
> geschrieben:
>
>> Well, thanks for all the good feedback.
>>
>> I have to agree with most of it - this piece ended being a bad decision,
>> and of course adding some adornments ended up making it a bad idea with a
>> pretty background (or as an old saying where I live would put it, You can
>> put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig).
>>
>> Anyway - will scratch that piece and try to focus on the Toolbar change.
>>
>> Will keep you posted.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 3:47 AM Mike Saunders <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>> > one
>> > > Poster.
>> >
>> > Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>> > I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>> > Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>> > can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>> >
>> > The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>> > focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>> >
>> > * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
>> > changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
>> > on social media ;-) )
>> >
>> > * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>> >
>> > * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>> >
>> > IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
>> > same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
>> > but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
>> > if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
>> > screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > --
>> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> > Problems?
>> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
>> > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>> >
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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>> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>>
>

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Nigel Verity Nigel Verity
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

In reply to this post by Mike Saunders
Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the user permits experimental features.

This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

Regards

Nige
________________________________
From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]>
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Howdy Mike,

I will reply in line.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Mike
>
> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
> user permits experimental features.
>

Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
are still experimental.


>
> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
> should be considered.
>

With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
old and stayed as that look is).

Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
top level View menu.

When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.

The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
menu also.

It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the
Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions
turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs
drop down menu.

Best wishes,

Drew


> Regards
>
> Nige
> ________________________________
> From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Hello,
>
> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> >
> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> one
> > Poster.
>
> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>
> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>
> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> on social media ;-) )
>
> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>
> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>
> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>
> Mike
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
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Nigel Verity Nigel Verity
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Drew/Mike

That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.

It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure this can be automated without being intrusive

Nige
________________________________
From: Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; Tdf Marketing
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Howdy Mike,

I will reply in line.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
Mike

With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the user permits experimental features.

Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected are still experimental.


This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu should be considered.

With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as old and stayed as that look is).

Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the top level View menu.

When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed. The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.

The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level menu also.

It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs drop down menu.

Best wishes,

Drew


Regards

Nige
________________________________
From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

Hello,

On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>
> I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in one
> Poster.

Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.

The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
focus on one or two variants of it and say:

* What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
on social media ;-) )

* Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)

* How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!

IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
screenshots, I think we can make it work...

Mike

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kainz.a kainz.a
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
is in finishing.

Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity <[hidden email]>
geschrieben:

> Drew/Mike
>
> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>
> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
> this can be automated without being intrusive
>
> Nige
> ________________________________
> From: Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]; Tdf Marketing
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Howdy Mike,
>
> I will reply in line.
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Mike
>
> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
> user permits experimental features.
>
> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
> are still experimental.
>
>
> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
> should be considered.
>
> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
> old and stayed as that look is).
>
> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
> top level View menu.
>
> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>
> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
> from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
> menu also.
>
> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with the
> Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some functions
> turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the All Tabs
> drop down menu.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
> Regards
>
> Nige
> ________________________________
> From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]<mailto:
> [hidden email]>>
> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:
> [hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
> LibreOffice'.
>
> Hello,
>
> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
> >
> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
> one
> > Poster.
>
> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>
> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>
> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
> on social media ;-) )
>
> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>
> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>
> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>
> Mike
>
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
> is in finishing.
>

I have the task of writing the draft for the Calc guide appendix on the
Notebookbar interface changes. Likely that will feed the work on the
Getting Started Guide appendix of the same name.

Adding another UI  will add plenty of work.

I would also hope you mean it when you say it will be finished, because
from a system perspective and IMO tabbed notebook bar was not.
Customization is lost when the new UI is active (extension or user added
buttons not available, extension and user added menus not available) and a
number of keyboard shorts cuts (which actually require the top level menus)
no longer function. I would of thought such details required to be moved
from experimental to standard feature.

Then there are changes, for instance buttons of similar name and function
between standard toolbar and notebook bar actually function slightly
differently (don't know how many of those there are but there have been a
few found and confirmed that the change in behavior is intentional).

Best wishes,

Drew



>
> Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity <[hidden email]>
> geschrieben:
>
>> Drew/Mike
>>
>> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>>
>> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
>> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
>> this can be automated without being intrusive
>>
>> Nige
>> ________________________________
>> From: Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: [hidden email]; Tdf Marketing
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>> LibreOffice'.
>>
>> Howdy Mike,
>>
>> I will reply in line.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> Mike
>>
>> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
>> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
>> user permits experimental features.
>>
>> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
>> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
>> are still experimental.
>>
>>
>> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
>> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
>> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
>> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
>> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
>> should be considered.
>>
>> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
>> old and stayed as that look is).
>>
>> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
>> top level View menu.
>>
>> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
>> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
>> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>>
>> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always available
>> from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the top level
>> menu also.
>>
>> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with
>> the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some
>> functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the
>> All Tabs drop down menu.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Drew
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nige
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]<mailto:
>> [hidden email]>>
>> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:
>> [hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>> LibreOffice'.
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>> >
>> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>> one
>> > Poster.
>>
>> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>>
>> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>>
>> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
>> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
>> on social media ;-) )
>>
>> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>>
>> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>>
>> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
>> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
>> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
>> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
>> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> --
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>> <mailto:marketing%[hidden email]>
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Infographic 'Changing Face of LibreOffice'.

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 5:56 PM Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 2:42 PM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I plan to have at least also groupedbar compact out of experimental. Work
>> is in finishing.
>>
>
> I have the task of writing the draft for the Calc guide appendix on the
> Notebookbar interface changes. Likely that will feed the work on the
> Getting Started Guide appendix of the same name.
>
> Adding another UI  will add plenty of work.
>
> I would also hope you mean it when you say it will be finished, because
> from a system perspective and IMO tabbed notebook bar was not.
> Customization is lost when the new UI is active (extension or user added
> buttons not available, extension and user added menus not available) and a
> number of keyboard shorts cuts (which actually require the top level menus)
> no longer function. I would of thought such details required to be moved
> from experimental to standard feature.
>
> Then there are changes, for instance buttons of similar name and function
> between standard toolbar and notebook bar actually function slightly
> differently (don't know how many of those there are but there have been a
> few found and confirmed that the change in behavior is intentional).
>

And finally, the help system - there is no online help for the Notebook bar
(except for a two paragraph mention, which says it is experimental and how
to turn it on and off - so 50% of what is there is wrong in other words) -
I would expect that on-line help should also of been a prerequisite for
graduation from experimental.

Now I'm done.



>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
>
>>
>> Am Sa., 24. Nov. 2018, 18:36 hat Nigel Verity <[hidden email]>
>> geschrieben:
>>
>>> Drew/Mike
>>>
>>> That answers all the points I raised. Thanks very much.
>>>
>>> It would be both interesting and useful to capture some stats about how
>>> popular the notebookbar vs standard toolbar prove to be, but I'm not sure
>>> this can be automated without being intrusive
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: 24 November 2018 16:52
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: [hidden email]; Tdf Marketing
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Howdy Mike,
>>>
>>> I will reply in line.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:56 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> With the notebookbar coming out of experimental I'm assuming it will be
>>> selected from the "User Interface" item on the "View" menu, as now when the
>>> user permits experimental features.
>>>
>>> Yes, but only one item is added to the view menu, 'Tabbed'. The other
>>> versions of a notebookbar visible when experimental features is selected
>>> are still experimental.
>>>
>>>
>>> This gives 9 options, of which 6 relate to an MS Office type of menu
>>> system. I can't help thinking this will confuse as many people as it
>>> impresses. Has a decision been made as to which option is the default for a
>>> user selecting the notebookbar rather than the classic menu? Perhaps a
>>> one-click method to toggle between the default notebookbar and classic menu
>>> should be considered.
>>>
>>> With 6.2 the default look after installation is the Standard Toolbar (as
>>> old and stayed as that look is).
>>>
>>> Switching to the Tabbed (notebook bar) is available, by module, from the
>>> top level View menu.
>>>
>>> When the Tabbed (notebook bar) is visible the top level menu is removed.
>>> The Tabbed bar now offers two drop down menus, one is available across all
>>> tabs, there is  also a tab specific menu.
>>>
>>> The ability to change back to the Standard Toolbar UI is always
>>> available from the All Tabs drop down menu, which of course restores the
>>> top level menu also.
>>>
>>> It should also me noted that secondary toolbars can still be used with
>>> the Tabbed (notebook bar), this is controlled both by context (some
>>> functions turn on secondary tool bars) or by the user from an item on the
>>> All Tabs drop down menu.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Drew
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Nige
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]<mailto:
>>> [hidden email]>>
>>> Sent: 23 November 2018 08:46
>>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:
>>> [hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Infographic 'Changing Face of
>>> LibreOffice'.
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> On 23/11/2018 09:09, kainz.a wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I would recommend to focus on some toppics and don't mix everything in
>>> one
>>> > Poster.
>>>
>>> Yep, I agree! Drew, it's a great idea and thanks for working on it, but
>>> I think we need to focus on one thing at a time with the messaging.
>>> Otherwise people may get the idea that LibreOffice is too complicated,
>>> can't decide on a cohesive interface etc.
>>>
>>> The NotebookBar is going to be a big deal for LO 6.2, so we need to
>>> focus on one or two variants of it and say:
>>>
>>> * What it is (a new, OPTIONAL user interface design -- we're not
>>> changing everything! Otherwise we'll get a huge amount of angry comments
>>> on social media ;-) )
>>>
>>> * Why it's great (work with items in context, faster workflow etc.)
>>>
>>> * How to try it -- and super important, how to go back!
>>>
>>> IMO we need to simultaneously communicate that LibreOffice 6.2 has the
>>> same reliable, trusted, familiar user interface as previous releases,
>>> but is also modern, forward-looking and adaptable. This isn't easy, but
>>> if we do it right and not overload people with lots of information and
>>> screenshots, I think we can make it work...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> <mailto:marketing%[hidden email]>
>>> Problems?
>>> https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.libreoffice.org%2Fget-help%2Fmailing-lists%2Fhow-to-unsubscribe%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5ae347b9ee304b43613a08d651205a41%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636785596730236770&amp;sdata=iXaelFM%2FB%2FYeORGUeU3qjc4on9HgvyYkGZjdd1E%2FlXI%3D&amp;reserved=0
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