Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

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andrewH andrewH
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Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze. I am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it took nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent of CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure why this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and noodle away while waiting.

So of course, what I really want is a spreadsheet that reads more rows and doesn't crash. But I assume others are already asking for that, & do not know how to add anything helpful to that effort. So instead I am asking a more modest question: What is the best way to crash a frozen LibreOffice if I want to minimize the data and files lost?

Note that this is the question I started with. Now I have a new and more urgent question: Why won't LibreOffice start at all? See below.

When Calc froze, I closed it in the usual way with the usual upper-right close window button. This results in the message:

"The file '$(ARG1)' is corrupt and therefore cannot be opened. LibreOffice can try to repair the file.

LO can try to repair the file. The corruption could be the result of document manipulation or of structural document damage due to data transmission. We recommend that you do not trust the content  of the repaired document. Execution of macros is disabled for this document. Should LO repair the file?"

I choose <Yes> 

"Message "The file '$(ARG1)' could not be repaired and therefore cannot be opened."

The document recovery window said "recovery of your documents was finished" while the big spreadsheet still said "recovery in process" and a Writer file said "not recovered yet". Three Writer files said "recovery successful"Because no LibreOffice process seemed to be using much CPU time, I assumed that it was again frozen rather than still working (though "soffice.bin *32" still had 1.14 gig in memory) and hit the "finish" button.

I got a message, "Fatal Error - Bad Allocation" and nothing was recovered.

I tried opening Writer, and the document recovery box popped up again, but with one fewer Writer files listed. This time it started on the spreadsheet, never finished (though the window again said  "recovery of your documents was finished") and never got to the remaining files, though I let it run all night. In the morning I hit finis, and the recovery window disappeared with nothing taking its place.

I tried to start Writer again. Nothing happened - no error, no window, nothing. I tried opening a Writer document by clicking on it in Windows Explorer. Nothing. I tried opening a (different) Calc file.

Windows Task Manager shows five instances of soffice.bin *32 running, five instances of soffice.exe * 32, and four instances of swriter.exe *32

I am running LibreOffice 4.2 on Windows 7 64-bit with SP1, on a Dell i5 machine with 24 gig of RAM. I do not recall there being a separate 64-bit version, but the installer put it in my 64-bit programs directory.

Advice and suggestions most welcome.
Owen Genat Owen Genat
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

andrewH wrote
I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze. I am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down during auto-saving.

[...]

Because no LibreOffice process seemed to be using much CPU time, I assumed that it was again frozen rather than still working (though "soffice.bin *32" still had 1.14 gig in memory) and hit the "finish" button.

[...]

I am running LibreOffice 4.2 on Windows 7 64-bit with SP1, on a Dell i5 machine with 24 gig of RAM. I do not recall there being a separate 64-bit version, but the installer put it in my 64-bit programs directory.
There is only a 32 bit version of LO for Windows, so that is not an issue. It sounds to me as though the input filter is choking on the amount of data to be read. The RAM usage figures are smaller than I would expect for that amount of file data, although if it is uncompressed then it is less surprising cf. with my testing in this AskLO answer. I have pushed Calc v4.2 even higher on occasion. If it is a public dataset can you post a link for others to test?
Best wishes, Owen.
Andrew Pitonyak Andrew Pitonyak
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

In reply to this post by andrewH
On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:

> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze. I
> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated
> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and
> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a
> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it took
> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent of
> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure why
> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
> noodle away while waiting.

It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of data,

Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
open the file.

If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
running out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to
me, I can run a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine
has 32 GB of RAM...


--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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TomD TomD
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi :)
Try Gnumeric;
http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html

It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.

It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.

Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
different machines and different people using different OSes and
programs.

Regards from
Tom )




On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
>>
>> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze.
>> I
>> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated
>> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and
>> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a
>> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
>> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
>> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it took
>> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent of
>> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure why
>> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
>> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
>> noodle away while waiting.
>
>
> It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of data,
>
> Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot open
> the file.
>
> If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply running
> out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I can run
> a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> RAM...
>
>
> --
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Helen-2 Helen-2
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

I clicked the link, it took me to home page.   I click Download Gnumeric
and it takes me
back to the home page.   I've tried all the variations I can find -- how do
I download it?


On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi :)
> Try Gnumeric;
> http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
>
> It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
>
> It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
>
> Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
> eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> different machines and different people using different OSes and
> programs.
>
> Regards from
> Tom )
>
>
>
>
> On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> >>
> >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> freeze.
> >> I
> >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> pipe-separated
> >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
> and
> >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
> at a
> >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
> >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
> >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
> took
> >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent
> of
> >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
> why
> >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
> >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
> >> noodle away while waiting.
> >
> >
> > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
> data,
> >
> > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
> open
> > the file.
> >
> > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply running
> > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I can
> run
> > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> > RAM...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Pitonyak
> > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>


--
Helen Etters
using Linux, suse12.3

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timllloyd timllloyd
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi Helen,

if you are using linux it should be in the repos so install from there.

If windows I went to gnumeric.org. Underneath welcome it shows Gnumeric
1.12.13 and I clicked on the "get it from here" link.

On the next page I selected the link under windows, save to my computer,
etc.

Not sure what to do if you are  mac user :(

HTH

Tim
On 07/04/14 07:59, Helen wrote:

> I clicked the link, it took me to home page.   I click Download Gnumeric
> and it takes me
> back to the home page.   I've tried all the variations I can find -- how do
> I download it?
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi :)
>> Try Gnumeric;
>> http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
>>
>> It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
>> minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
>> or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
>> for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
>> spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
>>
>> It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
>> the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
>> bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
>>
>> Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
>> eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
>> suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
>> use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
>> different machines and different people using different OSes and
>> programs.
>>
>> Regards from
>> Tom )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
>>>> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
>> freeze.
>>>> I
>>>> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
>> pipe-separated
>>>> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
>> and
>>>> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
>> at a
>>>> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
>>>> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
>>>> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
>> took
>>>> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent
>> of
>>>> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
>> why
>>>> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
>>>> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
>>>> noodle away while waiting.
>>>
>>> It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
>> data,
>>> Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
>> open
>>> the file.
>>>
>>> If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply running
>>> out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I can
>> run
>>> a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
>>> RAM...
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Pitonyak
>>> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
>>> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems?
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>>
>


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TomD TomD
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi :)
Yeh, from  this page
http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
click the blue link in the paragraph about the Windows version.  That
should start downloading the exe file.

If you use Linux or Bsd then the best way is to use one of your
"package managers" (such as "Synaptic package manager") to install the
version in your repositories.
Regards from
Tom :)




On 6 April 2014 23:33, Tim Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Helen,
>
> if you are using linux it should be in the repos so install from there.
>
> If windows I went to gnumeric.org. Underneath welcome it shows Gnumeric
> 1.12.13 and I clicked on the "get it from here" link.
>
> On the next page I selected the link under windows, save to my computer,
> etc.
>
> Not sure what to do if you are  mac user :(
>
> HTH
>
> Tim
>
> On 07/04/14 07:59, Helen wrote:
>>
>> I clicked the link, it took me to home page.   I click Download Gnumeric
>> and it takes me
>> back to the home page.   I've tried all the variations I can find -- how
>> do
>> I download it?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi :)
>>> Try Gnumeric;
>>> http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
>>>
>>> It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
>>> minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
>>> or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
>>> for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
>>> spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
>>>
>>> It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
>>> the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
>>> bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
>>>
>>> Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
>>> eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
>>> suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
>>> use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
>>> different machines and different people using different OSes and
>>> programs.
>>>
>>> Regards from
>>> Tom )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
>>>
>>> freeze.
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
>>>
>>> pipe-separated
>>>>>
>>>>> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
>>>
>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
>>>
>>> at a
>>>>>
>>>>> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
>>>>> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
>>>>> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
>>>
>>> took
>>>>>
>>>>> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent
>>>
>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
>>>
>>> why
>>>>>
>>>>> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all
>>>>> the
>>>>> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
>>>>> noodle away while waiting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
>>>
>>> data,
>>>>
>>>> Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
>>>
>>> open
>>>>
>>>> the file.
>>>>
>>>> If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
>>>> running
>>>> out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I can
>>>
>>> run
>>>>
>>>> a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
>>>> RAM...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Pitonyak
>>>> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
>>>> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>>> Problems?
>>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>>> deleted
>>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems?
>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
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> deleted
>

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andrewH andrewH
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

In reply to this post by Andrew Pitonyak
Thanks for the offer, Andrew!

The original file is definitely bigger than the allowable limit. However, when I originally tried to import it, it opened up the first third of the file and allowed me to save it, and reopen it. However, when I tried to save it a second time, it crashed and the file was corrupted.

I am pretty sure the problem is not that I am running out of memory. I have 24 gig on a 64-bit machine. I think the program is just buggy when you try to run it at its absolute outside capacity limit.

So I have figured out how to open my file in R and save subsets small enough to open more reliably.

I wish the program checked for file size and offered a sensible list of options when it is too big, like opening the first N rows, or opening n rows after skipping m rows, or opening a taking a p percent sample of rows. But perhaps that is too much to hope for in a spreadsheet.

And thanks again for your thought and attention.

Warmest regards, Andrew


On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:

> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze. I
> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated
> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and
> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a
> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it took
> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent of
> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure why
> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
> noodle away while waiting.

It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of data,

Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
open the file.

If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
running out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to
me, I can run a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine
has 32 GB of RAM...


--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


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andrewH andrewH
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

In reply to this post by TomD
Thanks Tom!

Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to use Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database, Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it very hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if I can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded, which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census products are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so much. (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand (would you put material intended to explain something to the public in pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing one document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be easier.

Warmest regards, Andrew


On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi :)
Try Gnumeric;
http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html

It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.

It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.

Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
different machines and different people using different OSes and
programs.

Regards from
Tom )




On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
>>
>> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to freeze.
>> I
>> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a pipe-separated
>> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns and
>> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits at a
>> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can not
>> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking down
>> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it took
>> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25 percent of
>> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure why
>> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all the
>> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file and
>> noodle away while waiting.
>
>
> It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of data,
>
> Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot open
> the file.
>
> If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply running
> out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I can run
> a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> RAM...
>
>
> --
> Andrew Pitonyak
> My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Redefining Progress
(510) 507-4820
TomD TomD
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi :)
Ahh, Base seems to be better when the data is held externally.  Postgresql
should be an excellent choice for holding the data and then 'just' get Base
to connect to it.

I would have thought Calc would then be really good at displaying the
data?!  So i'm not sure what the problem is now.  Hopefully someone better
with databases might be more helpful!  Errr, most people on this mailing
list seem to be better with databases than me!
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)





On 17 April 2014 22:56, andrewH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Tom!
>
> Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to use
> Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database,
> Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it very
> hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if I
> can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded,
> which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census products
> are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so much.
> (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand (would
> you put material intended to explain something to the public in
> pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta
> data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy
> lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing one
> document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be easier.
>
> Warmest regards, Andrew
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi :)
> > Try Gnumeric;
> > http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
> >
> > It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> > minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> > or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> > for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> > spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
> >
> > It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> > the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> > bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
> >
> > Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
> > eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> > suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> > use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> > different machines and different people using different OSes and
> > programs.
> >
> > Regards from
> > Tom )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=0>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> > freeze.
> > >> I
> > >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> > pipe-separated
> > >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
> > and
> > >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
> > at a
> > >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can
> not
> > >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking
> down
> > >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
> > took
> > >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25
> percent
> > of
> > >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
> > why
> > >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all
> > the
> > >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file
> and
> > >> noodle away while waiting.
> > >
> > >
> > > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
> > data,
> > >
> > > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
> > open
> > > the file.
> > >
> > > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
> > running
> > > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I
> can
> > run
> > > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> > > RAM...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Pitonyak
> > > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=1>
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=2>
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> > below:
> >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4104190.html
> >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when
> > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
> >
> > .
> > NAML<
>
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> J. Andrew Hoerner
> Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> Redefining Progress
> (510) 507-4820
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105610.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
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>

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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Dear Tom -- Thanks for your attention to my problem.
I believe the problem with using Calc as a viewer is that I have 3.6 million lines of data.
But I am getting more comfortable with using R itself to answer these questions. I think part of my problem is that it is the nature of of legal training to try to andticipate every possible problem. But when the number of possible problems exceeds a certain level, my brain runs out of working memory even if my computer still has RAM.  Also, I set ambitious goals for allowing people to run my software on ordinary laptops a year or three old. I have to say that since I have scaled those back and got 24 gig of RAM instead, many problems seem more manageable, even without a database.

Peace, Andrew


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 6:39 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi :)
Ahh, Base seems to be better when the data is held externally.  Postgresql
should be an excellent choice for holding the data and then 'just' get Base
to connect to it.

I would have thought Calc would then be really good at displaying the
data?!  So i'm not sure what the problem is now.  Hopefully someone better
with databases might be more helpful!  Errr, most people on this mailing
list seem to be better with databases than me!
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)





On 17 April 2014 22:56, andrewH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Tom!
>
> Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to use
> Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database,
> Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it very
> hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if I
> can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded,
> which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census products
> are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so much.
> (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand (would
> you put material intended to explain something to the public in
> pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta
> data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy
> lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing one
> document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be easier.
>
> Warmest regards, Andrew
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > Hi :)
> > Try Gnumeric;
> > http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
> >
> > It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> > minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> > or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> > for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> > spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
> >
> > It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> > the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> > bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
> >
> > Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
> > eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> > suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> > use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> > different machines and different people using different OSes and
> > programs.
> >
> > Regards from
> > Tom )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=0>>
> > wrote:

> >
> > > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> > freeze.
> > >> I
> > >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> > pipe-separated
> > >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
> > and
> > >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
> > at a
> > >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can
> not
> > >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking
> down
> > >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
> > took
> > >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25
> percent
> > of
> > >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
> > why
> > >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all
> > the
> > >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file
> and
> > >> noodle away while waiting.
> > >
> > >
> > > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
> > data,
> > >
> > > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
> > open
> > > the file.
> > >
> > > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
> > running
> > > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I
> can
> > run
> > > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> > > RAM...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Pitonyak
> > > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=1>
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=2>
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> > below:
> >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4104190.html
> >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when

> > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
>
>
> > .
> > NAML<
>
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml

> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> J. Andrew Hoerner
> Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> Redefining Progress
> (510) 507-4820
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105610.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
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>
>

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J. Andrew Hoerner
Director, Sustainable Economics Program
Redefining Progress
(510) 507-4820
TomD TomD
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi :)
I think it's the same with programmer training.  Inevitably there are too
many variables or unknown factors that rarely occur.

One methodology to handle it is to "release early and release often" to get
"more eyeballs on the code".  Even if people can't see the code itself or
don't bother to look it still helps to have a real-world usable tool, even
if it can only work under limited conditions.  It being in use helps
prioritise issues that really need to be dealt with.  It also helps attract
attention from other people and some of those might be able to help.  Some
might only point out problems that hadn't been noticed before and that
might lead to a better understanding of some other problem.

Doing the first draft or building the first prototype is really tough but
once it's done it really helps figure out what needed to be done to build
the prototype.  Trying to be too perfect first time is rarely useful.
Regards from
Tom :)




On 1 May 2014 06:07, andrewH <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Tom -- Thanks for your attention to my problem.
> I believe the problem with using Calc as a viewer is that I have 3.6
> million lines of data.
> But I am getting more comfortable with using R itself to answer these
> questions. I think part of my problem is that it is the nature of of legal
> training to try to andticipate every possible problem. But when the number
> of possible problems exceeds a certain level, my brain runs out of working
> memory even if my computer still has RAM.  Also, I set ambitious goals for
> allowing people to run my software on ordinary laptops a year or three old.
> I have to say that since I have scaled those back and got 24 gig of RAM
> instead, many problems seem more manageable, even without a database.
>
> Peace, Andrew
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 6:39 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail
> Archive] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi :)
> > Ahh, Base seems to be better when the data is held externally.
>  Postgresql
> > should be an excellent choice for holding the data and then 'just' get
> > Base
> > to connect to it.
> >
> > I would have thought Calc would then be really good at displaying the
> > data?!  So i'm not sure what the problem is now.  Hopefully someone
> better
> > with databases might be more helpful!  Errr, most people on this mailing
> > list seem to be better with databases than me!
> > Good luck and regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 17 April 2014 22:56, andrewH <[hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4105676&i=0>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Tom!
> > >
> > > Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to
> > use
> > > Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database,
> > > Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it
> very
> > > hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if
> I
> > > can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded,
> > > which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census
> > products
> > > are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so
> > much.
> > > (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand
> > (would
> > > you put material intended to explain something to the public in
> > > pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta
> > > data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy
> > > lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing
> one
> > > document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be
> > easier.
> > >
> > > Warmest regards, Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail
> > Archive]
> > > <[hidden email] <http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4105676&i=1
> >>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi :)
> > > > Try Gnumeric;
> > > > http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
> > > >
> > > > It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> > > > minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> > > > or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> > > > for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> > > > spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
> > > >
> > > > It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> > > > the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> > > > bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
> > > >
> > > > Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a
> wider
> > > > eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> > > > suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> > > > use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> > > > different machines and different people using different OSes and
> > > > programs.
> > > >
> > > > Regards from
> > > > Tom )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]<
> > > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=0>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> > > > freeze.
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> > > > pipe-separated
> > > > >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30
> > columns
> > > > and
> > > > >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc
> > quits
> > > > at a
> > > > >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but
> can
> > > not
> > > > >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking
> > > down
> > > > >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file
> > it
> > > > took
> > > > >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25
> > > percent
> > > > of
> > > > >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not
> > sure
> > > > why
> > > > >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes,
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another
> file
> > > and
> > > > >> noodle away while waiting.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows
> > of
> > > > data,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you
> > cannot
> > > > open
> > > > > the file.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
> > > > running
> > > > > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me,
> I
> > > can
> > > > run
> > > > > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB
> > of
> > > > > RAM...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Andrew Pitonyak
> > > > > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > > > > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> > > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=1>
> > > > > Problems?
> > > > >
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > > > Posting guidelines + more:
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> > be
> > > > > deleted
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> > > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=2>
> > > > Problems?
> > > >
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > > Posting guidelines + more:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> > > > deleted
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> > discussion
> > > > below:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4104190.html
> > > >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when
> > > > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
> > >
> > >
> > > > .
> > > > NAML<
> > >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > J. Andrew Hoerner
> > > Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> > > Redefining Progress
> > > (510) 507-4820
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > View this message in context:
> > >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105610.html
> > > Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4105676&i=2>
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
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> > Problems?
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> > deleted
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> > below:
> >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105676.html
> >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when
> > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
> >
> > .
> > NAML<
>
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> J. Andrew Hoerner
> Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> Redefining Progress
> (510) 507-4820
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4107071.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
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> Problems?
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

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Jacqueline Tarleton Jacqueline Tarleton
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

In reply to this post by andrewH
"But I am getting more comfortable with using R itself to answer these..."

Excuse my ignorance - What is R?

This particular Thread has provided amazing details on the limitations of
Libre Office Calc, tips, hints, and workarounds- except do not know what is
R. I apologize in advance for not offering a solution. Jackie
On Apr 17, 2014 5:57 PM, "andrewH" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Tom!
>
> Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to use
> Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database,
> Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it very
> hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if I
> can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded,
> which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census products
> are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so much.
> (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand (would
> you put material intended to explain something to the public in
> pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta
> data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy
> lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing one
> document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be easier.
>
> Warmest regards, Andrew
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi :)
> > Try Gnumeric;
> > http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
> >
> > It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> > minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> > or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> > for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> > spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
> >
> > It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> > the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> > bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
> >
> > Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
> > eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> > suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> > use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> > different machines and different people using different OSes and
> > programs.
> >
> > Regards from
> > Tom )
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=0>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> > freeze.
> > >> I
> > >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> > pipe-separated
> > >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30 columns
> > and
> > >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc quits
> > at a
> > >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can
> not
> > >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking
> down
> > >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file it
> > took
> > >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25
> percent
> > of
> > >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not sure
> > why
> > >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all
> > the
> > >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file
> and
> > >> noodle away while waiting.
> > >
> > >
> > > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
> > data,
> > >
> > > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
> > open
> > > the file.
> > >
> > > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
> > running
> > > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I
> can
> > run
> > > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB of
> > > RAM...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Pitonyak
> > > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=1>
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=2>
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
> > below:
> >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4104190.html
> >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when
> > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
> >
> > .
> > NAML<
>
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> J. Andrew Hoerner
> Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> Redefining Progress
> (510) 507-4820
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105610.html
> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

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TomD TomD
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

Hi :)
i assumed it is a 3rd party database program that contains the tables of
data.  Base is usually excellent at linking to such external databases.  It
seems to be the best way of using Base and the default way of using it.

The idea is that Base then performs various functions through SQL code; to
sort, filter, concatenate, link and all the rest.  All this is done kinda
invisibly, or with a view that most normal users couldn't really cope
with.  Like watching a play from back-stage.

Then Calc or Writer get used to produce reports or forms or letters in a
user-friendly way.  The reports don't contain the data, neither does Base =
they are just like looking through different windows into the database
tables that are held externally.

So, i don't know what R is either.  I get the impression that if it is a
3rd party database program it's something hideously mangled = as if
produced by a micro-managing, non-expert committee.

Regards from
Tom :)




On 1 May 2014 13:36, Jacqueline Tarleton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> "But I am getting more comfortable with using R itself to answer these..."
>
> Excuse my ignorance - What is R?
>
> This particular Thread has provided amazing details on the limitations of
> Libre Office Calc, tips, hints, and workarounds- except do not know what is
> R. I apologize in advance for not offering a solution. Jackie
> On Apr 17, 2014 5:57 PM, "andrewH" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Tom!
> >
> > Gnumeric is a great product and I have used it before. I was hoping to
> use
> > Calc in this case because I am trying to learn to use the LO database,
> > Base, as a stand-alone or a front end for PostgreSQL. But I find it very
> > hard to define, use, and even just to import a file into a database if I
> > can not first look at it and determine how missing variables are coded,
> > which fields are character and which are numeric, etc. Some census
> products
> > are really good at giving users this kind of metadata, others not so
> much.
> > (The Economic Census metadata is hard enough to read and understand
> (would
> > you put material intended to explain something to the public in
> > pipe-delimited text?) that I have written to them asking for meta-meta
> > data). So I wanted to use Calc for exploration and base to do the heavy
> > lifting, in the hope that things might be easier if I stayed withing one
> > document family. Now I am thinking that some other approach will be
> easier.
> >
> > Warmest regards, Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:09 AM, TomD [via Document Foundation Mail
> Archive]
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi :)
> > > Try Gnumeric;
> > > http://www.gnumeric.org/download.html
> > >
> > > It's a dedicated spreadsheet program with a tiny footprint that uses
> > > minimal resources, so it's faster, lighter and more robust than Excel
> > > or Calc.  Many people find Gnumeric to be better than Calc or Excel
> > > for serious or hefty spreadsheets and/or for handling many more
> > > spreadsheets in a shorter time-frame.
> > >
> > > It can be installed alongside LibreOffice and/or MS Office.  It uses
> > > the same format as LibreOffice natively so most spreadsheets can be
> > > bounced between the 2 programs quite happily.
> > >
> > > Part of the advantage of LibreOffice is that it fits well into a wider
> > > eco-system and co-operates well with a wider range of programs and
> > > suites allowing you to tailor individual machines to specific
> > > use-cases and yet still retain the ability to share files between
> > > different machines and different people using different OSes and
> > > programs.
> > >
> > > Regards from
> > > Tom )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 April 2014 06:43, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <[hidden email]<
> > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=0>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 04/04/2014 07:44 PM, andrewH wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I am working with a data set that keeps causing my LibreOffice to
> > > freeze.
> > > >> I
> > > >> am pretty sure that this is only because it is big. It is a
> > > pipe-separated
> > > >> text from the US Economic Census imported into Calc, about 30
> columns
> > > and
> > > >> around a million rows. (The actual data set is bigger, but Calc
> quits
> > > at a
> > > >> million-odd. The complete file is about 0.8 gig.) I suspect but can
> > not
> > > >> prove that this is related to file handling somehow, e.g. breaking
> > down
> > > >> during auto-saving. The first time I saved the data as a Calc file
> it
> > > took
> > > >> nearly an hour with the "soffice.bin *32" process running at 25
> > percent
> > > of
> > > >> CPU time and using about 825 meg of memory the entire time. (Not
> sure
> > > why
> > > >> this is showing up as a 32-bit version).  And when Calc freezes, all
> > > the
> > > >> LibreOffice programs freeze. So I can't just switch to another file
> > and
> > > >> noodle away while waiting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It looks to me as though Calc cannot handle more than 1048576 rows of
> > > data,
> > > >
> > > > Do you have more rows than that? If yes, then I think that you cannot
> > > open
> > > > the file.
> > > >
> > > > If you have less than that, and, if you think that you are simply
> > > running
> > > > out of memory.... if you can figure out how to get the data to me, I
> > can
> > > run
> > > > a test on a 64 bit version (running on Linux). My machine has 32 GB
> of
> > > > RAM...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Pitonyak
> > > > My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
> > > > Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=1>
> > > > Problems?
> > > >
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > > Posting guidelines + more:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot
> be
> > > > deleted
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]<
> > http://user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=4104190&i=2>
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >  If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion
> > > below:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4104190.html
> > >  To unsubscribe from Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when
> > > frozen/LibreOffice will not start., click here<
> >
> > >
> > > .
> > > NAML<
> >
>
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > J. Andrew Hoerner
> > Director, Sustainable Economics Program
> > Redefining Progress
> > (510) 507-4820
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Intentionally-crashing-LibreOffice-when-frozen-LibreOffice-will-not-start-tp4104156p4105610.html
> > Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > --
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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: Intentionally crashing LibreOffice when frozen/LibreOffice will not start.

In reply to this post by Jacqueline Tarleton
Jacqueline Tarleton wrote
"But I am getting more comfortable with using R itself to answer these..."

Excuse my ignorance - What is R?

This particular Thread has provided amazing details on the limitations of
Libre Office Calc, tips, hints, and workarounds- except do not know what is
R.
You'll find what you seek here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28programming_language%29
http://www.r-project.org/

Stuart
Ruth Ann Ruth Ann
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keyboard shortcut to navigate tables

In reply to this post by Jacqueline Tarleton
Is there a keyboard shortcut that will let me move from cell to cell in
a table in Writer? I can not find any  mention of one in the help
section, and so far, the only way I know to move the cursor to the next
cell is to use the mouse.
Ruth Ann, Cincinnati, OH USA

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Ruth Ann Stewart, Cincinnati, OH
dba Cameo Canine
www.CameoCanine.com
[hidden email]


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marianne-x marianne-x
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Re: keyboard shortcut to navigate tables

On 5/1/2014 1:31 PM, Ruth Ann wrote:
> Is there a keyboard shortcut that will let me move from cell to cell
> in a table in Writer? I can not find any  mention of one in the help
> section, and so far, the only way I know to move the cursor to the
> next cell is to use the mouse.
> Ruth Ann, Cincinnati, OH USA
>
With portable-LO, 4.0.6.2, /Curtains7/, 64b, the four arrow keys move
one cell up, down, right, or left, at least for me.
Seems absurdly simple, so maybe there's more to it.

trj

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Brian Barker Brian Barker
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Re: keyboard shortcut to navigate tables

In reply to this post by Ruth Ann
At 13:31 01/05/2014 -0400, Ruth Ann wrote:
>Is there a keyboard shortcut that will let me move from cell to cell
>in a table in Writer? I can not find any mention of one in the help
>section, and so far, the only way I know to move the cursor to the
>next cell is to use the mouse.

Do the (four) keyboard arrow keys not work for you? You should also
find that Tab moves forward in the table and Shift+Tab similarly
backwards. For this reason, if you need to insert a Tab character in
a table cell, you need to use Ctrl+Tab instead of simple Tab.

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Ruth Ann Ruth Ann
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Re: keyboard shortcut to navigate tables now forms

In reply to this post by Ruth Ann
My apologies. I had asked about tables, and indeed, your information was
very useful. Thank you.

However, what I should have asked about was how to navigate on a page of
labels.
Sorry, I think when I look at the page, it looks like a table to me, so
I think of it that way. But in reality, it is a page of labels that I am
trying to navigate.
The arrow keys only move me around within each label, and the tab key
just inserts a tab into the text of the label.
Ruth Ann

On 5/1/2014 2:08 PM, Brian Barker wrote:

> At 13:31 01/05/2014 -0400, Ruth Ann wrote:
>> Is there a keyboard shortcut that will let me move from cell to cell
>> in a table in Writer? I can not find any mention of one in the help
>> section, and so far, the only way I know to move the cursor to the
>> next cell is to use the mouse.
>
> Do the (four) keyboard arrow keys not work for you? You should also
> find that Tab moves forward in the table and Shift+Tab similarly
> backwards. For this reason, if you need to insert a Tab character in a
> table cell, you need to use Ctrl+Tab instead of simple Tab.
>
> I trust this helps.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>


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Ruth Ann Stewart, Cincinnati, OH
dba Cameo Canine
www.CameoCanine.com
[hidden email]


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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: keyboard shortcut to navigate tables

In reply to this post by Ruth Ann
       The arrow keys work for me ...

       ok, that's technically not a short-cut  ;-)
           but it keeps things simple ... that KISs idea  ;-)

       PS - I see you're from Ohio;
            sure hope you & yours were able to avoid any problems from the
storms passing your way.



From: Ruth Ann <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, May 1, 2014 at 12:31 PM
Subject: [libreoffice-users] keyboard shortcut to navigate tables
To: [hidden email]


Is there a keyboard shortcut that will let me move from cell to cell in a
table in Writer? I can not find any  mention of one in the help section,
and so far, the only way I know to move the cursor to the next cell is to
use the mouse.
Ruth Ann, Cincinnati, OH USA

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Ruth Ann Stewart, Cincinnati, OH

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