Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?


There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was

So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,

I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?

We really need to know.

The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
research the package before downloading and installing it.

Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.

So I am asking LO users the question.
Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?

The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
3.5.x comes out.

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John R. Sowden John R. Sowden
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

On 06/02/2012 07:46 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

>
> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>
> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>
> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>
> We really need to know.
>
> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users
> would research the package before downloading and installing it.
>
> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>
> So I am asking LO users the question.
> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>
> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs
> till 3.5.x comes out.
>
I am a business user.  What issues are you thinking about that might
determine if the product is "business ready".  I usually wait for a
couple of weeks to upgrade until all the dust settles.  I don't research
the pkg.  I use the same features usually, so I just see how LO works
differently with the features that I use.

John


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

>
> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>
> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>
> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>
> We really need to know.
>
> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>
> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>
> So I am asking LO users the question.
> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>
> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
> 3.5.x comes out.
>

What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like
me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely
untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of
bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The
overall service quality of this particular user list is really bad.

The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but
not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it
serves both projects.


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Spencer Graves-2 Spencer Graves-2
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

On 6/2/2012 8:37 AM, Andreas Säger wrote:

> Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>>
>> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>>
>> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>>
>> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>>
>> We really need to know.
>>
>> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
>> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>>
>> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
>> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>>
>> So I am asking LO users the question.
>> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>>
>> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
>> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
>> 3.5.x comes out.
>>
>
> What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user
> like me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a
> completely untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after
> writing a bunch of bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view
> on the project. The overall service quality of this particular user
> list is really bad.
>
> The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5
> but not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker
> where it serves both projects.


       What does it need to do to be "business ready"?


       I don't know, but I suspect that Google probably uses it.  I
heard over a year ago that Google employees were forbidden to use MS
Windows:  The primary alternatives were Mac OS and Linux.  I was also
told that Google paid people full time to do nothing but contribute to
open source projects.  I suspect they probably have the same attitude
today towards MS Office as toward the operating system.


       I've used LibreOffice or Open Office for over 3 years now as a
100% replacement for MS Office.  I was motivated by two things:  (a) I
had lost my job and resolved to pay for software only if I could not
find a comparable, Free Open-Source Software (FOSS) alternative.  (b) I
saw no need to pay Microsoft for forcing me to learn where they hid all
the controls on their new version.  Since then, I've had some
compatibility problems with LO import and export of MS Word documents,
and I still cannot control LO Impress as good as I could MS PowerPoint.  
On the other hand, I've started using the LO "Synchronize Labels"
feature, and I never used a comparable feature in MS Word;  it may be
there, but I never used it.


       Spencer Graves
p.s.  I'm the President of a start-up.  We have not hired anyone new but
if and when we do, I plan to ask them to try LO before I pay for MS
Office.  My Chief Engineer still has MS Office and has not seen a need
to try LO -- and the incompatibility problems have not been sufficient
for me to push him to use LO.  I'm not sure, but I think my Chief
Financial Officer uses LO.



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Jude DaShiell Jude DaShiell
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

No.  Not ready for Government academic or business users.  What's worse,
the accessibility problems "inferior jre" with windows registry patch
merged didn't start in libreoffice at all.  Those same problems exist in
openoffice 3.45 which I think is its current version.  Something or
somethings were broken before the import or copy over of code from
openoffice to libreoffice.  The accessibility problems put libreoffice
in a Section 508 violation situation.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2012, Spencer Graves wrote:

> On 6/2/2012 8:37 AM, Andreas S?ger wrote:
> > Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> > >
> > > There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
> > >
> > > So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
> > >
> > > I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
> > >
> > > We really need to know.
> > >
> > > The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
> > > research the package before downloading and installing it.
> > >
> > > Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
> > > will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
> > >
> > > So I am asking LO users the question.
> > > Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
> > >
> > > The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
> > > but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
> > > 3.5.x comes out.
> > >
> >
> > What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like me
> > or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely untypical
> > user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of bug reports.
> > Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The overall service
> > quality of this particular user list is really bad.
> >
> > The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but not
> > in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it serves
> > both projects.
>
>
>       What does it need to do to be "business ready"?
>
>
>       I don't know, but I suspect that Google probably uses it.  I heard over
> a year ago that Google employees were forbidden to use MS Windows:  The
> primary alternatives were Mac OS and Linux.  I was also told that Google paid
> people full time to do nothing but contribute to open source projects.  I
> suspect they probably have the same attitude today towards MS Office as toward
> the operating system.
>
>
>       I've used LibreOffice or Open Office for over 3 years now as a 100%
> replacement for MS Office.  I was motivated by two things:  (a) I had lost my
> job and resolved to pay for software only if I could not find a comparable,
> Free Open-Source Software (FOSS) alternative.  (b) I saw no need to pay
> Microsoft for forcing me to learn where they hid all the controls on their new
> version.  Since then, I've had some compatibility problems with LO import and
> export of MS Word documents, and I still cannot control LO Impress as good as
> I could MS PowerPoint.  On the other hand, I've started using the LO
> "Synchronize Labels" feature, and I never used a comparable feature in MS
> Word;  it may be there, but I never used it.
>
>
>       Spencer Graves
> p.s.  I'm the President of a start-up.  We have not hired anyone new but if
> and when we do, I plan to ask them to try LO before I pay for MS Office.  My
> Chief Engineer still has MS Office and has not seen a need to try LO -- and
> the incompatibility problems have not been sufficient for me to push him to
> use LO.  I'm not sure, but I think my Chief Financial Officer uses LO.
>
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------
Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>


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Jude DaShiell Jude DaShiell
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Spencer Graves-2
Correction what I wrote applies only to the Windows version.  I don't
have g.u.i. installed on Linux, I need something stable to use and
haven't tried this on my mac yet.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2012, Spencer Graves wrote:

> On 6/2/2012 8:37 AM, Andreas S?ger wrote:
> > Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> > >
> > > There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
> > >
> > > So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
> > >
> > > I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
> > >
> > > We really need to know.
> > >
> > > The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
> > > research the package before downloading and installing it.
> > >
> > > Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
> > > will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
> > >
> > > So I am asking LO users the question.
> > > Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
> > >
> > > The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
> > > but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
> > > 3.5.x comes out.
> > >
> >
> > What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like me
> > or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely untypical
> > user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of bug reports.
> > Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The overall service
> > quality of this particular user list is really bad.
> >
> > The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but not
> > in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it serves
> > both projects.
>
>
>       What does it need to do to be "business ready"?
>
>
>       I don't know, but I suspect that Google probably uses it.  I heard over
> a year ago that Google employees were forbidden to use MS Windows:  The
> primary alternatives were Mac OS and Linux.  I was also told that Google paid
> people full time to do nothing but contribute to open source projects.  I
> suspect they probably have the same attitude today towards MS Office as toward
> the operating system.
>
>
>       I've used LibreOffice or Open Office for over 3 years now as a 100%
> replacement for MS Office.  I was motivated by two things:  (a) I had lost my
> job and resolved to pay for software only if I could not find a comparable,
> Free Open-Source Software (FOSS) alternative.  (b) I saw no need to pay
> Microsoft for forcing me to learn where they hid all the controls on their new
> version.  Since then, I've had some compatibility problems with LO import and
> export of MS Word documents, and I still cannot control LO Impress as good as
> I could MS PowerPoint.  On the other hand, I've started using the LO
> "Synchronize Labels" feature, and I never used a comparable feature in MS
> Word;  it may be there, but I never used it.
>
>
>       Spencer Graves
> p.s.  I'm the President of a start-up.  We have not hired anyone new but if
> and when we do, I plan to ask them to try LO before I pay for MS Office.  My
> Chief Engineer still has MS Office and has not seen a need to try LO -- and
> the incompatibility problems have not been sufficient for me to push him to
> use LO.  I'm not sure, but I think my Chief Financial Officer uses LO.
>
>
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------
Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Jude DaShiell
Am 02.06.2012 21:18, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> No.  Not ready for Government academic or business users.  What's worse,
> the accessibility problems "inferior jre" with windows registry patch
> merged didn't start in libreoffice at all.  Those same problems exist in
> openoffice 3.45 which I think is its current version.  Something or
> somethings were broken before the import or copy over of code from
> openoffice to libreoffice.  The accessibility problems put libreoffice
> in a Section 508 violation situation.
>


Government, academic or business users all have administrators who can
find their way to roll out a productive version of some office suite
plus some with MS Office work station.

There is nothing wrong with version 3.3.4 or even OOo 3.3. Both are rock
stable and produce perfectly valid ODF.

Unfortunately, the project has far too many fan boys, consumers and
complainers but there are not enough determined contributors and
testers. I have no idea which problem you are writing about. Without
issue number the problem does not exist.


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Tom Tom
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Andreas Säger
Hi :)
I think it's important to test-drive a new branch on one non-production machine as soon as possible so that they can post bug-reports about their favourite features if there is a problem.  Then a quick try of the various sub-point releases to check single issues would be smart.  There is usually a noticeable drop off in the number of questions to the list once a branch reaches .4 but this last week or so there seems to have been a spike instead. 
However, most of those questions have not been about the 3.5.4 (or have been tested on other releases too) so it's got to be worth trying the 3.5.4.
Regards from
Tom :) 


--- On Sat, 2/6/12, Andreas Säger <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Andreas Säger <[hidden email]>
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 16:37

Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

>
> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>
> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>
> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>
> We really need to know.
>
> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>
> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>
> So I am asking LO users the question.
> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>
> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
> 3.5.x comes out.
>

What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like
me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely
untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of
bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The
overall service quality of this particular user list is really bad.

The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but
not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it
serves both projects.


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

On 06/02/2012 04:40 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> I think it's important to test-drive a new branch on one non-production machine as soon as possible so that they can post bug-reports about their favourite features if there is a problem.  Then a quick try of the various sub-point releases to check single issues would be smart.  There is usually a noticeable drop off in the number of questions to the list once a branch reaches .4 but this last week or so there seems to have been a spike instead.  
> However, most of those questions have not been about the 3.5.4 (or have been tested on other releases too) so it's got to be worth trying the 3.5.4.
> Regards from
> Tom :)  
+1 about testing.

The real issue is not whether a specific release is "business ready" but
rather does the specific release meet your needs or does it have
improvements, bug fixes, etc that make it better for you.

I use 3.5.4.2 from the repository for both business and personal use and
do not have any issues for what I need and do with it. But I have
limited business needs with the most important issue being the ability
to open and to create docx and xlsx files from and for others.

>
>
> --- On Sat, 2/6/12, Andreas Säger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Andreas Säger <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 16:37
>
> Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>>
>> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>>
>> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>>
>> We really need to know.
>>
>> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
>> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>>
>> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
>> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>>
>> So I am asking LO users the question.
>> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>>
>> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
>> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
>> 3.5.x comes out.
>>
> What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like
> me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely
> untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of
> bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The
> overall service quality of this particular user list is really bad.
>
> The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but
> not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it
> serves both projects.
>
>


--
Jay Lozier
[hidden email]


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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Tom

I was told by one member of the list that was part of TDF, do not
remember who since it was months ago, that business users would research
the product or its line BEFORE they would install it.

For me, I look at the "annoying bug list" listed near the bottom of the
release info page for info.  There are bugs for Writer and other parts
of LO that are not something I can ignore, but there is no "easy to see"
indicator that that bug has been fixed.  There is only red or black
text.  The bugs that could be show stoppers for me could have been fixed
now, since I first looking at bugs in 3.5.x line.

So, I have been using 3.4.6 on Linux and Windows.
Now, I am looking at 3.5.4 in some test on a WinXP laptop.

The real big thing is how ready is this line to be used for business
users.  During the 3.3.x and 3.4.x line crossover, you keep getting told
that this version is ready and that version is not.  But now on the web
site people were told to download and use 3.5.x since 3.5.0 came out.  I
do not think anyone would offer their boss a copy of 3.5.0 to be used in
their business.

I have given out many, many, DVDs with LO on it to local people, local
businesses, and local government offices.  I want to give out a new DVD
with 3.5.x on it but I have never been told that the current version of
3.5.x is ready for these businesses and such.

Would 3.5.4 be considered ready to give to a large local business or
local government office?  Are there any "show stoppers" that are still
there that needs to be fixed before you would give it to your boss in a
business or other non-personal users?

That is the problem for me.  First we had a guide for a version being
ready for business and enterprise users.  Now it is more like who cares
or they will find out for themselves.

I do not know of any professional IT person who would offer a major
package to their boss with the an attitude of "lets find out if it will
work", instead of "these sources indicates it should work, so lets look
into it more".



On 06/02/2012 04:40 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> I think it's important to test-drive a new branch on one non-production machine as soon as possible so that they can post bug-reports about their favourite features if there is a problem.  Then a quick try of the various sub-point releases to check single issues would be smart.  There is usually a noticeable drop off in the number of questions to the list once a branch reaches .4 but this last week or so there seems to have been a spike instead.
> However, most of those questions have not been about the 3.5.4 (or have been tested on other releases too) so it's got to be worth trying the 3.5.4.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> --- On Sat, 2/6/12, Andreas Säger<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
> From: Andreas Säger<[hidden email]>
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 16:37
>
> Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>>
>> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>>
>> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>>
>> We really need to know.
>>
>> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
>> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>>
>> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
>> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>>
>> So I am asking LO users the question.
>> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>>
>> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
>> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
>> 3.5.x comes out.
>>
> What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like
> me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely
> untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of
> bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The
> overall service quality of this particular user list is really bad.
>
> The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but
> not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it
> serves both projects.
>
>


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Jay Lozier
Am 02.06.2012 23:26, Jay Lozier wrote:

> I use 3.5.4.2 from the repository for both business and personal use and
> do not have any issues for what I need and do with it. But I have
> limited business needs with the most important issue being the ability
> to open and to create docx and xlsx files from and for others.
>>

Can you please explain why you create docx and xlsx and not doc and xls?


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Am 02.06.2012 23:29, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> I do not know of any professional IT person who would offer a major
> package to their boss with the an attitude of "lets find out if it will
> work", instead of "these sources indicates it should work, so lets look
> into it more".
>

Yes, sure. Recently I visited a law firm where everybody was forced to
work with MSOffice 2010 but without any training. We had to compose a
rather complex document with lots of tables and the only suitable
software at hand was the office on my laptop. I loaded their .dot
template (which contained some useful styles), pasted unformatted text
into it, pasted some WinWord tables into a spreadsheet and composed a
well styled document from a collection of snippets while our lawyer
could concentrate on the content.
This could not be done in MS Office because nobody knew how to get
certain well known commands out of the ribbon.


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Andreas Säger
On 06/02/2012 05:50 PM, Andreas Säger wrote:

> Am 02.06.2012 23:26, Jay Lozier wrote:
>
>> I use 3.5.4.2 from the repository for both business and personal use and
>> do not have any issues for what I need and do with it. But I have
>> limited business needs with the most important issue being the ability
>> to open and to create docx and xlsx files from and for others.
>>>
>
> Can you please explain why you create docx and xlsx and not doc and xls?
>
>
To keep others happy, actually I save in both MSO and MSOX formats for
different MS users. But I always create and save in ODF formats for the
originals. The conversion is done as the last step and no one has
reported any problems with the MSOX formats. Most of the MS users I deal
with do not know I was not using some version of MSO office.

More importantly for me is the reverse: MSO/MSOX to ODF. When I receive
a document, again I save as ODF for my "original" and keep the MSO/MSOX
unchanged.

--
Jay Lozier
[hidden email]


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Andreas Säger
On 06/02/2012 06:06 PM, Andreas Säger wrote:

> Am 02.06.2012 23:29, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>> I do not know of any professional IT person who would offer a major
>> package to their boss with the an attitude of "lets find out if it will
>> work", instead of "these sources indicates it should work, so lets look
>> into it more".
>>
>
> Yes, sure. Recently I visited a law firm where everybody was forced to
> work with MSOffice 2010 but without any training. We had to compose a
> rather complex document with lots of tables and the only suitable
> software at hand was the office on my laptop. I loaded their .dot
> template (which contained some useful styles), pasted unformatted text
> into it, pasted some WinWord tables into a spreadsheet and composed a
> well styled document from a collection of snippets while our lawyer
> could concentrate on the content.
> This could not be done in MS Office because nobody knew how to get
> certain well known commands out of the ribbon.
>
>
Unfortunately for MSO users its use the ribbon only, no option to use a
different interface.

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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Jay Lozier
Am 03.06.2012 01:21, Jay Lozier wrote:
>>
>> Can you please explain why you create docx and xlsx and not doc and xls?
>>
>>
> To keep others happy,

How can you be sure that you keep others happy with a poorly supported
file format? Why should a user of MSO be unhappy with doc/xls being a
second native file format of his/her office program?
He will never see any difference between doc and docx made by
LibreOffice except that chances are much higher to get a broken docx.
When you import docx back into LibO chances are higher that you do not
see the same document as the sender does because there are plenty of
features that do exist in MSO but not in LibO.
I think there is not a single _technical_ reason to export OOXML as long
as MS supports their old binary formats. And for the more _emotional_
part: OOXML is made to fight ODF.


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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

On 06/02/2012 07:35 PM, Andreas Säger wrote:

> Am 03.06.2012 01:21, Jay Lozier wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you please explain why you create docx and xlsx and not doc and
>>> xls?
>>>
>>>
>> To keep others happy,
>
> How can you be sure that you keep others happy with a poorly supported
> file format? Why should a user of MSO be unhappy with doc/xls being a
> second native file format of his/her office program?
> He will never see any difference between doc and docx made by
> LibreOffice except that chances are much higher to get a broken docx.
> When you import docx back into LibO chances are higher that you do not
> see the same document as the sender does because there are plenty of
> features that do exist in MSO but not in LibO.
> I think there is not a single _technical_ reason to export OOXML as
> long as MS supports their old binary formats. And for the more
> _emotional_ part: OOXML is made to fight ODF.
>
>
The real problem is that ODF 1.2 is not supported by MS and I am not
sure if MSO XP supports any ODF formats. The reasons for the MSOX
formats are thus political not technical. I use Linux almost exclusively
but must work with a MS dominated situation in the US. If I have no
problems with MSOX using Linux it is easier to promote LO (and Linux) as
viable options to others.

I understand your reservations about MSO formats but my problem is not
technical. In the US, most people are unaware of any FOSS or commercial
alternatives to MSO. When they find out I do not need MSO they are very
surprised, shocked may be more accurate. For example, US governmental
agencies (at all levels) almost exclusively use MSO and do not use any
other file formats except pdf. I understand the situation in Europe is
friendlier to LO than in the US

--
Jay Lozier
[hidden email]


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Tom Tom
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Hi :)
The 3.5.0 was blatantly not ready for business use and was not stable, as we saw from the number of problems people had on the lists, problems that were often solved by going back to 3.4.x.  It was absurd to claim that 3.5.0 or 3.5.1 or 3.5.2 were stable. 

The 3.5.3 seemed to generate less problems for people, or at least less that made it to the list but that could have been that people had given up on even trying any in the 3.5.x branch  and perhaps walked away from LO at all by that point. 

The question about 3.5.4 is one that you can only answer for yourself by testing it yourself.  We have learned to NOT trust it when TDF officials tell us that something is stable or enterprise-ready so the only opinion you can really count on is your own (unless you trust biased fanboys).  The 3.4.6 is plenty stable enough, has dealt with security issues that earlier releases theoretically had and and has enough functionality for most office needs.  So, i would recommend the 3.4.6 for business users but test-drive the 3.5.4 for myself. 

Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sat, 2/6/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 22:29


I was told by one member of the list that was part of TDF, do not remember who since it was months ago, that business users would research the product or its line BEFORE they would install it.

For me, I look at the "annoying bug list" listed near the bottom of the release info page for info.  There are bugs for Writer and other parts of LO that are not something I can ignore, but there is no "easy to see" indicator that that bug has been fixed.  There is only red or black text.  The bugs that could be show stoppers for me could have been fixed now, since I first looking at bugs in 3.5.x line.

So, I have been using 3.4.6 on Linux and Windows.
Now, I am looking at 3.5.4 in some test on a WinXP laptop.

The real big thing is how ready is this line to be used for business users.  During the 3.3.x and 3.4.x line crossover, you keep getting told that this version is ready and that version is not.  But now on the web site people were told to download and use 3.5.x since 3.5.0 came out.  I do not think anyone would offer their boss a copy of 3.5.0 to be used in their business.

I have given out many, many, DVDs with LO on it to local people, local businesses, and local government offices.  I want to give out a new DVD with 3.5.x on it but I have never been told that the current version of 3.5.x is ready for these businesses and such.

Would 3.5.4 be considered ready to give to a large local business or local government office?  Are there any "show stoppers" that are still there that needs to be fixed before you would give it to your boss in a business or other non-personal users?

That is the problem for me.  First we had a guide for a version being ready for business and enterprise users.  Now it is more like who cares or they will find out for themselves.

I do not know of any professional IT person who would offer a major package to their boss with the an attitude of "lets find out if it will work", instead of "these sources indicates it should work, so lets look into it more".



On 06/02/2012 04:40 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> I think it's important to test-drive a new branch on one non-production machine as soon as possible so that they can post bug-reports about their favourite features if there is a problem.  Then a quick try of the various sub-point releases to check single issues would be smart.  There is usually a noticeable drop off in the number of questions to the list once a branch reaches .4 but this last week or so there seems to have been a spike instead. However, most of those questions have not been about the 3.5.4 (or have been tested on other releases too) so it's got to be worth trying the 3.5.4.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
> --- On Sat, 2/6/12, Andreas Säger<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
> From: Andreas Säger<[hidden email]>
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, 2 June, 2012, 16:37
>
> Am 02.06.2012 16:46, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>> There seems to be differenting opinions on how business ready 3.5.3 was
>>
>> So now that LO 3.5.4 is out,
>>
>> I ask the users, is it ready to be deployed to my/our business users?
>>
>> We really need to know.
>>
>> The last "official" word on the 3.5.x line was that business users would
>> research the package before downloading and installing it.
>>
>> Well, I do not know how they will to all that research, or where they
>> will get the documentation for it, before downloading it.
>>
>> So I am asking LO users the question.
>> Is 3.5.4 ready for our business and/or enterprise users?
>>
>> The doc people are work hard to get more 3.5.x line documentation out,
>> but to be honest about it people can still use 3.3.x and 3.4.x docs till
>> 3.5.x comes out.
>>
> What is the problem with 3.5? What are your conclusions when a user like
> me or Tom states that everything is fine with 3.5? I am a completely
> untypical user who skipped the whole 3.4 series after writing a bunch of
> bug reports. Tom has an entirely non-technical view on the project. The
> overall service quality of this particular user list is really bad.
>
> The bug tracker can tell all unresolved issues that do exist in 3.5 but
> not in 3.4? Don't ask me how. I file my bugs to the AOO tracker where it
> serves both projects.
>
>


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Tom Tom
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by John R. Sowden
Hi :)
Smart move!  If more of us tried very early releases, preferably when still at alpha or beta testing stages then we could each quickly check that the 'obvious' (but different for each of us) things we use.  For those rare flukes where something might not work the way you expect then posting a bug-report at that point would be more likely to generate action and fixes. 

Devs are likely to be most interested in solving problems for things they are currently working on.  After official release interest is likely to wane at best or just drop-away completely.  Same as you & me & any other human beings.  Do you put most work into something that you are currently working on or something you ditched last year?  Why would devs be any different?  So the best tactic would be to catch them at the point they are most likely to be most keen by testing alpha and beta releases before anyone else gets their bug-reports in! ;)

Of course some devs do make a huge effort to rake back over old and dead stuff but most of the focus is likely to be on the new and exciting. 
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel
Get ahead of the game!  Unlike non-OpenSource projects you can get your things looked at, if you play it right (and have a little luck), even if you don't have any coding skill. 
Regards from
Tom :) 


--- On Sat, 2/6/12, John Sowden <[hidden email]> wrote:

<snip />

I am a business user.  What issues are you thinking about that might determine if the product is "business ready".  I usually wait for a couple of weeks to upgrade until all the dust settles.  I don't research the pkg.  I use the same features usually, so I just see how LO works differently with the features that I use.

John


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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by krackedpress
Le 02/06/12 23:29, webmaster-Kracked_P_P a écrit :
>

Hi,


> Would 3.5.4 be considered ready to give to a large local business or
> local government office?  Are there any "show stoppers" that are still
> there that needs to be fixed before you would give it to your boss in a
> business or other non-personal users?


Accessibility issues are probably the biggest hurdle to widespread
adoption in government and administration, the Java framework has been
screwed up at some point and that causes accessibility tools, most
notably screenreaders, to either no longer work, or cause the app to
crash - not a satisfactory state of affairs if your
firm/administration/unit has to provide accessible office tools as part
of its legal requirements.


The issue of instability with Apple's accessibility tools has been
ongoing since the release of LO from version 3.3, and is still not resolved.

I have been reading on the accessibility and developer lists more
recently how NVDA (Windows) has also stopped working.

Until issues like these are fixed, there will be no hope of LO being
taken up administrations/companies/institutions with a requirement to
cater for people with disabilities. It is hoped that IBM's recent
contribution to the Apache OO project of parts of the Lotus Symphony
code, most notably the accessibility framework code, will be able to be
integrated into the LO trunk code and thereby improve the situation, but
for the moment, the developers are still waiting for the dust to settle
around the code release.


Alex


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Is 3.5.4 ready for business users?

In reply to this post by Jude DaShiell
Am 02.06.2012 21:18, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> No.  Not ready for Government academic or business users.  What's worse,
> the accessibility problems "inferior jre" with windows registry patch
> merged didn't start in libreoffice at all.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46114#c7 [Resolved, not a
bug, configuration error due to bad screen reader manual]


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