Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

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avamk avamk
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Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

Hello,

I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010, Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read files saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as I can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to the strict format.

When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my file in the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:

(1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?

(2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the formats named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?

Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save in the OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...
krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
> Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read files
> saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as I
> can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to the
> strict format.
>
> When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my file in
> the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:
>
> (1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict
> OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?
>
> (2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the formats
> named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?
>
> Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document
> Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm
> sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save in the
> OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...
>
The problem with OOXML is the fact that each updated version of MS
Office seems to use a different version of OOXML.

My solution for Word users is to use .doc instead of .docx.  It works
well for me and the people I have to work with that do not use LibreOffice.

If you must use OOXML, do not use the generic Office Open XML.  That may
be the generic ISO standard that MS wanted but never used properly [IMO]
after ODF became the defacto International Standard. I would use the one
that states it is for MS Office 2007 / 2010 / 2013.

To be honest, I no longer use MS Office and stopped getting MSO with
2003 version.  I have used later version, but always removed them after
a few weeks.



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avamk avamk
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

Thanks krackedpress for your thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you have
been able to complete migrate away from Microsoft Office, and that it
has worked out well for you.

Unfortunately, regardless of which Microsoft Office format I save in -
the old Office 2003 (.doc), Office 2007+ (.docx), or Office Open XML
(OOXML .docx) - there are always countless problems when others open
my documents. This gets even worse for spreadsheets or presentations.
LibreOffice produced .pptx files are literally reported as corrupted
by Microsoft Office 2010 and do not even open (I've reported this
bug).

And no, I am not in a position to make everyone around me switch to
LibreOffice. I have already annoyed many colleagues by sending them
.docx/.xlsx/.pptx files saved by LibreOffice, because no one can open
them without serious trouble. This is especially true when my
colleagues include my boss.

Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
"Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
somewhere? Is someone managing this?

Assuming LibreOffice will continue to improve export to STRICT OOXML,
then there is a chance that Office 2013/2016 might be able to open
those files from LibreOffice.... one day.

On 11/12/2015, krackedpress [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
>> Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read files
>> saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as I
>> can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to
>> the
>> strict format.
>>
>> When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my file
>> in
>> the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:
>>
>> (1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict
>> OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?
>>
>> (2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the
>> formats
>> named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?
>>
>> Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document
>> Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm
>> sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save in
>> the
>> OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...
>>
> The problem with OOXML is the fact that each updated version of MS
> Office seems to use a different version of OOXML.
>
> My solution for Word users is to use .doc instead of .docx.  It works
> well for me and the people I have to work with that do not use LibreOffice.
>
> If you must use OOXML, do not use the generic Office Open XML.  That may
> be the generic ISO standard that MS wanted but never used properly [IMO]
> after ODF became the defacto International Standard. I would use the one
> that states it is for MS Office 2007 / 2010 / 2013.
>
> To be honest, I no longer use MS Office and stopped getting MSO with
> 2003 version. I have used later version, but always removed them after
> a few weeks.
edmund.laugasson edmund.laugasson
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

As there suppose to be full support for ODF in newest MS Office (MSO) -
http://www.itproportal.com/2015/03/30/microsoft-will-adopt-open-document-standards-following-government-battle/ 
- so why not use the ODF? Certainly the cooperation should not rely on
import-export. As far as I tested there is not such full support
regardless of that court case. Have anyone tested ODF support with
newest version of MSO?

Using e.g. MS OneDrive (https://onedrive.live.com/) among partners would
solve the online cooperation issue - then the same software and
fileformats are available for everyone.

As there is no online version (yet) of LibreOffice but there is MSO
online version (MS OneDrive) then people can use that. And it seems that
when the online version of LibreOffice comes then you have to set it up
in your private cloud in order to use it together online with partners.
Actually one instance of online LibreOffice is but not free -
https://www.rollapp.com/search?query=libreoffice

It is always better to promote ODF usage than OOXML whatever version.
Due to vendor lock-in I suspect that full compatibility with OOXML in
LibreOffice will never happen. Even if OOXML claims to be free - it is
still quite challenging to implement its support. Can anyone confirm the
full specification availaibility of OOXML? As MSO is using modified
version of OOXML and these modifications, as far as I know, are not
freely available then making full compatibility would be really
challenging...


On 23.12.2015 19:56, avamk wrote:
> .....
>
> Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
> support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
> question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
> "Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
> somewhere? Is someone managing this?

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Italo Vignoli-6 Italo Vignoli-6
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

In reply to this post by avamk
The issue is that MS Office does not support Strict OOXML as default, and
creating Strict OOXML with MS Office is close to impossible.


Il 23 dicembre 2015 9:31:58 PM avamk <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> Thanks krackedpress for your thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you have
> been able to complete migrate away from Microsoft Office, and that it
> has worked out well for you.
>
> Unfortunately, regardless of which Microsoft Office format I save in -
> the old Office 2003 (.doc), Office 2007+ (.docx), or Office Open XML
> (OOXML .docx) - there are always countless problems when others open
> my documents. This gets even worse for spreadsheets or presentations.
> LibreOffice produced .pptx files are literally reported as corrupted
> by Microsoft Office 2010 and do not even open (I've reported this
> bug).
>
> And no, I am not in a position to make everyone around me switch to
> LibreOffice. I have already annoyed many colleagues by sending them
> .docx/.xlsx/.pptx files saved by LibreOffice, because no one can open
> them without serious trouble. This is especially true when my
> colleagues include my boss.
>
> Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
> support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
> question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
> "Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
> somewhere? Is someone managing this?
>
> Assuming LibreOffice will continue to improve export to STRICT OOXML,
> then there is a chance that Office 2013/2016 might be able to open
> those files from LibreOffice.... one day.
>
> On 11/12/2015, krackedpress [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
>>> Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read files
>>> saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as I
>>> can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to
>>> the
>>> strict format.
>>>
>>> When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my file
>>> in
>>> the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:
>>>
>>> (1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict
>>> OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?
>>>
>>> (2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the
>>> formats
>>> named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?
>>>
>>> Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document
>>> Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm
>>> sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save in
>>> the
>>> OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...
>>>
>> The problem with OOXML is the fact that each updated version of MS
>> Office seems to use a different version of OOXML.
>>
>> My solution for Word users is to use .doc instead of .docx.  It works
>> well for me and the people I have to work with that do not use LibreOffice.
>>
>> If you must use OOXML, do not use the generic Office Open XML.  That may
>> be the generic ISO standard that MS wanted but never used properly [IMO]
>> after ODF became the defacto International Standard. I would use the one
>> that states it is for MS Office 2007 / 2010 / 2013.
>>
>> To be honest, I no longer use MS Office and stopped getting MSO with
>> 2003 version. I have used later version, but always removed them after
>> a few weeks.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Is-the-Office-Open-XML-option-strict-tp4168963p4169906.html
> Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> --
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>



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Italo Vignoli-6 Italo Vignoli-6
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

Yes, LibreOffice targets Strict in addition to Transitional (because Strict does not exist, as the process to save Strict with MS Office  is not limited to choosing Strict but also to the user behaviour, in a way that makes Strict almost impossible to obtain).

MS Office will create a Strict file only if the user saves the Document as Strict before doing ANY other thing (for instance, adding a single letter or a simple space), as otherwise MS Office creates a Transitional file.

In addition, MS Office opens Strict files as Transitional (the default format), so that the user must save it as Strict each time. If someone hits Ctrl-S, the file becomes Transitional and will NEVER revert to Strict.

You can try yourself. This is why I am repeating that a Strict file does not exist (by the way, Office for Mac does not support Strict, so if you have a single Mac user, Strict is gone). I have made several tests, and Strict is close to impossible to obtain when exchanging files.

I hope this explains the situation.

Italo Vignoli
Sent from Mobile

> Il giorno 24 dic 2015, alle ore 22:59, Advrk Aplmrkt <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
> Agreed. AFAIK Microsoft Office does not save Strict OOXML by default.
> However, starting with Microsoft Office 2013, Strict OOXML can be
> selected when saving files. Also, starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
> Strict OOXML files can always be read.
>
> I whole heartedly agree that ODF should be pushed more than OOXML
> (strict or not).
>
> That said, that still leaves my original very specific question unanswered:
>
> When saving to the "Office Open XML" format in LibreOffice's save
> dialog, does that target the published *strict* OOXML format? Thanks!
>
>> On 23/12/2015, Italo Vignoli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The issue is that MS Office does not support Strict OOXML as default, and
>> creating Strict OOXML with MS Office is close to impossible.
>>
>> Il 23 dicembre 2015 9:31:58 PM avamk <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>> Thanks krackedpress for your thoughts. I'm glad to hear that you have
>>> been able to complete migrate away from Microsoft Office, and that it
>>> has worked out well for you.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, regardless of which Microsoft Office format I save in -
>>> the old Office 2003 (.doc), Office 2007+ (.docx), or Office Open XML
>>> (OOXML .docx) - there are always countless problems when others open
>>> my documents. This gets even worse for spreadsheets or presentations.
>>> LibreOffice produced .pptx files are literally reported as corrupted
>>> by Microsoft Office 2010 and do not even open (I've reported this
>>> bug).
>>>
>>> And no, I am not in a position to make everyone around me switch to
>>> LibreOffice. I have already annoyed many colleagues by sending them
>>> .docx/.xlsx/.pptx files saved by LibreOffice, because no one can open
>>> them without serious trouble. This is especially true when my
>>> colleagues include my boss.
>>>
>>> Recent versions of Microsoft Office (2013 and 2016) at least claims to
>>> support the strict OOXML format, and that's why I asked my original
>>> question: Does LibreOffice target strict OOXML when I choose the
>>> "Office Open XML" format when saving a file??? Is this documented
>>> somewhere? Is someone managing this?
>>>
>>> Assuming LibreOffice will continue to improve export to STRICT OOXML,
>>> then there is a chance that Office 2013/2016 might be able to open
>>> those files from LibreOffice.... one day.
>>>
>>> On 11/12/2015, krackedpress [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 12/10/2015 12:23 PM, avamk wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just reading yesterday that starting with Microsoft Office 2010,
>>>>> Microsoft Office programs like Word and PowerPoint are able to read
>>>>> files
>>>>> saved in the Office Open XML (OOXML) "strict" format. In fact as far as
>>>>> I
>>>>> can tell Office 2013 or later natively supports reading and writing to
>>>>> the
>>>>> strict format.
>>>>>
>>>>> When saving in LibreOffice, I'm presented with the option to save my
>>>>> file
>>>>> in
>>>>> the "Office Open XML" format. My questions are:
>>>>>
>>>>> (1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is
>>>>> strict
>>>>> OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?
>>>>>
>>>>> (2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the
>>>>> formats
>>>>> named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, for software freedom purposes I prefer saving in the Open Document
>>>>> Format, but I would get endless complaints from colleagues saying I'm
>>>>> sending them weird and "corrupted" files... :( In fact even if I save
>>>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>> OOXML format I still get complaints, but at least I get less...
>>>>>
>>>> The problem with OOXML is the fact that each updated version of MS
>>>> Office seems to use a different version of OOXML.
>>>>
>>>> My solution for Word users is to use .doc instead of .docx.  It works
>>>> well for me and the people I have to work with that do not use
>>>> LibreOffice.
>>>>
>>>> If you must use OOXML, do not use the generic Office Open XML.  That may
>>>> be the generic ISO standard that MS wanted but never used properly [IMO]
>>>> after ODF became the defacto International Standard. I would use the one
>>>> that states it is for MS Office 2007 / 2010 / 2013.
>>>>
>>>> To be honest, I no longer use MS Office and stopped getting MSO with
>>>> 2003 version. I have used later version, but always removed them after
>>>> a few weeks.

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Owen Genat Owen Genat
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Re: Is the "Office Open XML" option strict?

In reply to this post by avamk
avamk wrote
(1) Does LibreOffice also save it in the "strict" OOXML format? Is strict OOXML fully implemented in LibreOffice?

(2) Is it better to save using the "Office Open XML" format, or the formats named like "Microsoft Word/Excel/Powerpoint 2007-2013 XML"?
Refer the related question on the Ask site here.