Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X
ver.10.11.3)

You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.

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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

Le 11/03/2016 01:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :

Hi Larry,

> LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime
> Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X ver.10.11.3)
>
> You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.
>


Install the JDK instead, it really isn't that hard. A PITA yes, but not
hard.


Alex


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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In reply to this post by Larry Gusaas
Le 11/03/2016 01:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :
> LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime
> Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X ver.10.11.3)
>
> You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.
>

Cf. bug 96163

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96163

Alex


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Uwe Altmann Uwe Altmann
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In reply to this post by Alex Thurgood
Hi

Am 11.03.16 um 10:18 schrieb Alexander Thurgood:

> Install the JDK instead, it really isn't that hard. A PITA yes, but not
> hard.

Wow - that helps! Find it here:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk8-downloads-2133151.html
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Uwe Altmann

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In reply to this post by Alex Thurgood


On 2016-03-11, 4:18 AM Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 11/03/2016 01:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :
>> LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime
>> Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X ver.10.11.3)
>>
>> You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.
>>
> Cf. bug 96163
>
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96163
>
> Alex
>
That is not a fix but a workaround. Fix it.

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

On 3/11/2016 12:51 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2016-03-11, 4:18 AM Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>> Le 11/03/2016 01:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :
>>> LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime
>>> Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X ver.10.11.3)
>>>
>>> You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.
>>>
>> Cf. bug 96163
>>
>> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96163

> That is not a fix but a workaround. Fix it.

Since this is only a problem on Mac, are you sure it isn't a bug caused
by Apple/OSX?

Maybe THEY should 'fix it'.

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1


On 2016-03-11, 12:47 PM Tanstaafl wrote:

> On 3/11/2016 12:51 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2016-03-11, 4:18 AM Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>> Le 11/03/2016 01:47, Larry Gusaas a écrit :
>>>> LibreOffice 5.1.1 on Macs still doesn't recognize Java Runtime
>>>> Environment (JRE 1.8.0_73 & OS X ver.10.11.3)
>>>>
>>>> You need to fix this bug. Can't use database without JRE.
>>>>
>>> Cf. bug 96163
>>>
>>> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96163
>> That is not a fix but a workaround. Fix it.
> Since this is only a problem on Mac, are you sure it isn't a bug caused
> by Apple/OSX?

Yes I am. Pre 5.1 versions of LibreOffice worked (and still work) on OS X.
Code changes in 5.1 broke the use of JRE on Macs

> Maybe THEY should 'fix it'.

Why? Change in LibreOffice code broke it. Nothing to do with Apple.

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jmadero jmadero
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1



>
>
> Why? Change in LibreOffice code broke it. Nothing to do with Apple.
>
Proof? Maybe we fixed something that just triggered a bug already in
Java....do you have some objective proof that this is our bug?


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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1



On 2016-03-11, 1:30 PM Joel Madero wrote:
>> Why? Change in LibreOffice code broke it. Nothing to do with Apple.
>>
> Proof? Maybe we fixed something that just triggered a bug already in
> Java....do you have some objective proof that this is our bug?

Proof??? JRE works with 5.0 and doesn't work with 5.1. That is pretty objective  proof.
LibreOffice code changed and now does not find JRE on OS X.

In case you weren't paying attention when 5.1.0 came out, here are some posts from a thread
"Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs"
from the [hidden email] mailing list. Note the comment /*"I'm not sure we did
ourselves a favour with that change..."*/.

>         On 02/11/2016 04:16 PM, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>         Le 10/02/2016 23:46, Larry Gusaas a écrit :
>>>         As I said in my original post, i reinstalled LibreOffice 5.0.4. Java is
>>>         recognized in the Preference settings. There is a bug in LO 5.1 which
>>>         prevents LibreOffice finding Java.
>>
>>          From what I recall, it was a deliberate code change in the way that the
>>         Java path is detected, but obviously not tested enough.
>
>         On 12 feb. 2016, at 14:09, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
>>         Le 12/02/2016 13:36, Stephan Bergmann a écrit :
>>>         The fix for<https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94716>
>>>         "FILEOPEN: LibO terminates when loading Oracle's Java on OS X 10.10 and
>>>         10.11," replacing the need to install Apple's Java 6 in addition to an
>>>         Oracle JRE or JDK with the requirement to install an Oracle JDK, not a
>>>         JRE.  I'm not sure we did ourselves a favour with that change...
>>>
>>         That's the one.
>>
>>         Most people rarely download a JDK when a JRE is largely sufficient for
>>         almost everything they might need to launch a Java application,
>>         especially as the JRE updates can be configured to be automatic, whereas
>>         the JDK can not. A user must be aware by looking up for themselves that
>>         there is a newer version of the JDK available (this doens't even happen
>>         on Windows to my knowledge). The change made in that bug report means
>>         that users have to choose between either foregoing Java functionality in
>>         LibreOffice and receiving annoying nag messages that no Java is
>>         installed, or else download and install a larger JDK (in comparison to
>>         just the JRE) that they then have to manually update from time to time.
>>
>>
>>
>>         Alex


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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

Why is this thread in the tdf-discuss list?

On 3/11/2016 3:28 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Proof??? JRE works with 5.0 and doesn't work with 5.1. That is pretty objective  proof.
> LibreOffice code changed and now does not find JRE on OS X.
>
> In case you weren't paying attention when 5.1.0 came out, here are some posts from a thread
> "Java broke on LO 5.1 on Macs"
> from the [hidden email] mailing list. Note the comment /*"I'm not sure we did
> ourselves a favour with that change..."*/.

And in that very thread - started by you - it was explained - to you -
that this was a *deliberate* code change to address a *broken* JRE
provided by Apple (the fact that you had to have the Java6 JRE installed
to get the Jave8 JRE installed is a clue that something wasn't right,
no?)...

I quote V Stuart Foote:

> No, Oracle  must fix the JRE, or Apple must correct OS X Java system calls.
> Until then, LO for tdf#94716 now requires use of the unaffected JDK -- at
> the expense of OS X users now having to install the JDK rather than a broken
> JRE to access the Java runtimes.
>
> See Oracle's notes:
> http://bugs.java.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7131356
>
> The LibreOffice details are in  tdf#74877
> <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74877>    and  
> tdf#94716 <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94716>  
>
> LibreOffice has no skin in the game beyond running the Java based HSQLDB
> for Base internal database--and when we fully move to FireBird very little
> requirement for Java going forward.  Java runtime -- from a JRE or JDK
> becomes irrelevant to the project.

So, you are complaining about a Mac bug here... please take it to the
appropriate place (wherever you report Mac bugs)...

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1


On 2016-03-11, 2:39 PM Tanstaafl wrote:
> So, you are complaining about a Mac bug here... please take it to the
> appropriate place (wherever you report Mac bugs)...

No. It is a LibreOffice bug. You broke the usability of LibreOffice on Macs with your code
change. It worked before.

Any new user of LibreOffice on Macs will find out the database doesn't work. Is that the
impression your want Mac users to have of LibreOffice? Do you care about your users? It is not
Apples's responsibility to make your software usable, it is LibreOffice's responsibility to
make their product work on Mac's. It did so before the update to 5.1.

Attitudes like you make me want to tell all Mac users to not use LibreOffice,


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"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No. It is a LibreOffice bug. You broke the usability of LibreOffice
> on Macs with your code change.

*I* broke it? Sorry Larry I'm just a user like you.

> It worked before.

Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Libreoffice *fixed* a bug that brought to light a Mac bug.

Deal with it.

It isn't Libreoffice's responsibility to 'work around' everyone else's bugs.

> Any new user of LibreOffice on Macs will find out the database
> doesn't work.

No - they will find that a *few* features/functions won't work.

The reality is *most* will never know it.

> It is not Apples's responsibility to make your software usable

There is a *bug* in Apple's provided JRE package that has been there for
a very long time.

The Libreoffice devs finally decided to make a change to their code that
stops 'working around' Apple's long standing bug (at least thats how I
read the comments)...

There is a simple workaround that *you* can employ - install the JDK -
until Apple fixes *their* JRE package bug.

Enjoy...

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RichardH RichardH
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

Seems that from Mac users point of view,
there was no bug until LibO fixed their bug
and exposed the Mac bug.

Wonder who the Mac users will blame?


On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Tanstaafl <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > No. It is a LibreOffice bug. You broke the usability of LibreOffice
> > on Macs with your code change.
>
> *I* broke it? Sorry Larry I'm just a user like you.
>
> > It worked before.
>
> Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
>
> Libreoffice *fixed* a bug that brought to light a Mac bug.
>
> Deal with it.
>
> It isn't Libreoffice's responsibility to 'work around' everyone else's
> bugs.
>
> > Any new user of LibreOffice on Macs will find out the database
> > doesn't work.
>
> No - they will find that a *few* features/functions won't work.
>
> The reality is *most* will never know it.
>
> > It is not Apples's responsibility to make your software usable
>
> There is a *bug* in Apple's provided JRE package that has been there for
> a very long time.
>
> The Libreoffice devs finally decided to make a change to their code that
> stops 'working around' Apple's long standing bug (at least thats how I
> read the comments)...
>
> There is a simple workaround that *you* can employ - install the JDK -
> until Apple fixes *their* JRE package bug.
>
> Enjoy...
>
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> Problems?
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>

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl


On 2016-03-11, 4:11 PM Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> No. It is a LibreOffice bug. You broke the usability of LibreOffice
>> on Macs with your code change.
> *I* broke it? Sorry Larry I'm just a user like you.

It's obvious that "you" on a product mailing list refers to the LibreOffice developers.Quit
being pedantic.

>> It worked before.
> Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
>
> Libreoffice *fixed* a bug that brought to light a Mac bug.

No. LibreOffice broke it's usability on OS X. If it makes a product for OS X it should work for
OS X as it currently exists.
It did not bring to light a Mac bug. The requirement for the older Apple developed version of
Java to be installed has been known for several years and is mentioned in the installation notes.

By the way, the bug is in Java. The installation of the old Apple Java is the long-known
workaround. The current version broke that functionality.

> Deal with it.

Yeah. Mac users will deal with it. They'll quit using LibreOffice.

> It isn't Libreoffice's responsibility to 'work around' everyone else's bugs.

It is LibreOffice's responsibility to make their product work on the platforms they make it for.

>
>> Any new user of LibreOffice on Macs will find out the database
>> doesn't work.
> No - they will find that a *few* features/functions won't work.
>
> The reality is *most* will never know it.

The lack of Java also affects some extensions .
That is no excuse for making software that doesn't work

>> It is not Apples's responsibility to make your software usable
> There is a *bug* in Apple's provided JRE package that has been there for
> a very long time.
>
> The Libreoffice devs finally decided to make a change to their code that
> stops 'working around' Apple's long standing bug (at least thats how I
> read the comments)...

Actually, it's a bug in Java. You obviously didn't do a lot of research. Are you a Mac user?

> There is a simple workaround that *you* can employ - install the JDK -
> until Apple fixes *their* JRE package bug.

And that fact is not mentioned in the installation instructions or in the release note. And
until the release of 5.1 there was no need to install the JDK. And, unless you are a developer,
there is no other need for it. Besides, it takes up a lot more disk space on your computer.

I have my own workaround. Use a different product.

This bug will create a very negative impression of LibreOffice among Mac users. That is why I
keep reiterating that LibreOffice needs to fix the problem

Obviously you don't care about Mac users.

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Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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jmadero jmadero
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

Please take this off discuss@ list, it belongs at best on dev list, QA
list, or user list....discuss list isn't the appropriate place.

You can also report a bug (no clue if you did), it will get closed as
NOTOURBUG if it's not our bug.

Thanks.


Best,
Joel

On 03/11/2016 03:22 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

>
>
> On 2016-03-11, 4:11 PM Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 3/11/2016 4:19 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> No. It is a LibreOffice bug. You broke the usability of LibreOffice
>>> on Macs with your code change.
>> *I* broke it? Sorry Larry I'm just a user like you.
>
> It's obvious that "you" on a product mailing list refers to the
> LibreOffice developers.Quit being pedantic.
>
>>> It worked before.
>> Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
>>
>> Libreoffice *fixed* a bug that brought to light a Mac bug.
>
> No. LibreOffice broke it's usability on OS X. If it makes a product
> for OS X it should work for OS X as it currently exists.
> It did not bring to light a Mac bug. The requirement for the older
> Apple developed version of Java to be installed has been known for
> several years and is mentioned in the installation notes.
>
> By the way, the bug is in Java. The installation of the old Apple Java
> is the long-known workaround. The current version broke that
> functionality.
>
>> Deal with it.
>
> Yeah. Mac users will deal with it. They'll quit using LibreOffice.
>
>> It isn't Libreoffice's responsibility to 'work around' everyone
>> else's bugs.
>
> It is LibreOffice's responsibility to make their product work on the
> platforms they make it for.
>
>>
>>> Any new user of LibreOffice on Macs will find out the database
>>> doesn't work.
>> No - they will find that a *few* features/functions won't work.
>>
>> The reality is *most* will never know it.
>
> The lack of Java also affects some extensions .
> That is no excuse for making software that doesn't work
>
>>> It is not Apples's responsibility to make your software usable
>> There is a *bug* in Apple's provided JRE package that has been there for
>> a very long time.
>>
>> The Libreoffice devs finally decided to make a change to their code that
>> stops 'working around' Apple's long standing bug (at least thats how I
>> read the comments)...
>
> Actually, it's a bug in Java. You obviously didn't do a lot of
> research. Are you a Mac user?
>
>> There is a simple workaround that *you* can employ - install the JDK -
>> until Apple fixes *their* JRE package bug.
>
> And that fact is not mentioned in the installation instructions or in
> the release note. And until the release of 5.1 there was no need to
> install the JDK. And, unless you are a developer, there is no other
> need for it. Besides, it takes up a lot more disk space on your computer.
>
> I have my own workaround. Use a different product.
>
> This bug will create a very negative impression of LibreOffice among
> Mac users. That is why I keep reiterating that LibreOffice needs to
> fix the problem
>
> Obviously you don't care about Mac users.
>


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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

On 2016-03-11, 5:32 PM Joel Madero wrote:
> Please take this off discuss@ list, it belongs at best on dev list, QA
> list, or user list....discuss list isn't the appropriate place.
Why???
I am not a developer and don't follow that list.
I am not asking for help.

I am reporting a problem with the usability of your product on one of the platforms you build
it for. The developers broke that function. There are bug reports and previous discussions
about it on various list.

Shouldn't Discuss list be an appropriate place to discuss problems with the usability of the
product on specific platforms and the impression a broken product will leave on the users of
LibreOffice, and the likelihood of their continuing to use it or to recommend it to others.

--
_________________________________

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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jmadero jmadero
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In short....no.

On 03/11/2016 03:49 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

> On 2016-03-11, 5:32 PM Joel Madero wrote:
>> Please take this off discuss@ list, it belongs at best on dev list, QA
>> list, or user list....discuss list isn't the appropriate place.
> Why???
> I am not a developer and don't follow that list.
> I am not asking for help.
>
> I am reporting a problem with the usability of your product on one of
> the platforms you build it for. The developers broke that function.
> There are bug reports and previous discussions about it on various list.
>
> Shouldn't Discuss list be an appropriate place to discuss problems
> with the usability of the product on specific platforms and the
> impression a broken product will leave on the users of LibreOffice,
> and the likelihood of their continuing to use it or to recommend it to
> others.
>


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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

On 2016-03-11, 5:55 PM Joel Madero wrote:
> In short....no.

Gee. Very in-depth answer.
Or do you, like some others here, not care about Mac users perceptions of LibreOffice?

Since I am not on the developer list (and it is not available through Gmane, which is the only
way I follow these and other lists) this seemed like the most appropriate list.

--
_________________________________

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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jmadero jmadero
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

All I said was this isn't the appropriate place to discuss w/e opinions
you have. You've gotten a crystal clear answer, your responses are "sure
Java has some issues but TDF has a responsibility to offer some hacky
solution to work around THEIR bug." We've rejected that proposal (which
is pretty obvious why we would) and yet you continue to say the same
thing. If there are open bug reports - awesome. There is no need for
more (in particular since you're not offering to help implement a fix).

I'll dare to ask....have you bothered Java with perpetual emails about
THEIR bug or are you sticking solely to this list?


Best,
Joel

On 03/11/2016 04:29 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

> On 2016-03-11, 5:55 PM Joel Madero wrote:
>> In short....no.
>
> Gee. Very in-depth answer.
> Or do you, like some others here, not care about Mac users perceptions
> of LibreOffice?
>
> Since I am not on the developer list (and it is not available through
> Gmane, which is the only way I follow these and other lists) this
> seemed like the most appropriate list.
>


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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Java still broke on LibreOffice 5.1.1

In other word you don't give a fuck about Mac users.

I am now going to recommend, on all forums and users lists I provide support on, that Mac users
not use LibreOffice.

Just goes to show what a bunch of a-holes LibreOffice developers are.

On 2016-03-11, 6:33 PM Joel Madero wrote:

> All I said was this isn't the appropriate place to discuss w/e opinions
> you have. You've gotten a crystal clear answer, your responses are "sure
> Java has some issues but TDF has a responsibility to offer some hacky
> solution to work around THEIR bug." We've rejected that proposal (which
> is pretty obvious why we would) and yet you continue to say the same
> thing. If there are open bug reports - awesome. There is no need for
> more (in particular since you're not offering to help implement a fix).
>
> I'll dare to ask....have you bothered Java with perpetual emails about
> THEIR bug or are you sticking solely to this list?
>
>
> Best,
> Joel
>
> On 03/11/2016 04:29 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
>> On 2016-03-11, 5:55 PM Joel Madero wrote:
>>> In short....no.
>> Gee. Very in-depth answer.
>> Or do you, like some others here, not care about Mac users perceptions
>> of LibreOffice?
>>
>> Since I am not on the developer list (and it is not available through
>> Gmane, which is the only way I follow these and other lists) this
>> seemed like the most appropriate list.
>>
> __________
>


--
_________________________________

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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