LO status bar annoyances

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
44 messages Options
Next » 123
spaetz spaetz
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

LO status bar annoyances

Am I the only one finding the current status bar pretty much useless?

About the only thing I actually use there, is the zoom slidebar (and I
wouldn't use that if I were able to have a single "set 'optimal' zoom
button in my toolbar which doesn't seem possible).

- What annoys me most is the "document modified indicator". If it is
  unmodified, I see some *empty* separators in the status bar (why do we
  show empty separators? these should GO GO GO away) and the mouse
  tooltip over the *empty* separator says "this document has not been
  modified". When I type, I get a document with an exclamation mark, and
  the tooltip changes to "this document has been modified".

  a) This is  the standard state of my documents (see,  I tend to modify
     docs in  a editor,  DOH), and that  exclamation mark  purports some
     sense of urgency and failure.

  b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
     always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
     with it.

- I have to single-click on the INSRT and STD->EXT->ADD->BLK and
  language selection thingies, but to double-click on the Page 1/1 and
  "Default" for something to happen. I just found out by coincidence
  today that I can launch some action for the latter.

- Despite being a heavy writer user, I have no clue what EXT/ADD/BLK
  mean, or what they are being used for (so I never use it). They have
  no tooltip whatsoever to give me a clue either. The toolbar help
  button unfortunately launches the generic help, rather then the more
  useful "what's this". In a "what's this" mode, I do see a tooltip help
  (why not always????), saying this is about the selection mode. What
  the selection mode EXTEND, ADD, or BLOCK are, I have still no clue
  about. Perhaps a right-click on that thing could offer to open a more
  elaborate help page? (keep the tooltip always in any case).

  And more fundamentally, do people really change the selection style in
  their documents to something else? Ever? Does this really require a
  statusbar item?

  Help text: Anyway after much search I found the entry in the help page
  that refers to that feature. I only had to "what's this" the item, to
  get to know about "Selection Mode" and search the help until it
  discovered the "selection modes in text" item. It has very useful
  help. BLK means: "A block of text can be selected.". /me slaps
  heads. How could I not know!!1! (err, can't I select a block of text
  with the STD as well? How dot they differ? But that's a topic for
  another day :).


- Randomly trying out things and clicking on an empty area in the status
  bar, brought up a dialog window titled "Fields" which offered me to
  insert the "Author"->"Name", if I get it right (playing a bit dumb
  here). It also has a checkbox for "Fixed content" (who doesn't want to
  fix there content, but that is also for another day). Anyway, clicking
  (actually double-clicking required this time) on an *empty* area
  should not open mysterious dialog boxes.

Where in the code is that collection of mysteries being placed on the
statusbar and should I file bugs to put this rant into :-)?

Sebastian

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

attachment0 (203 bytes) Download Attachment
Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

Sebastian Spaeth wrote:
> Am I the only one finding the current status bar pretty much useless?
>
Nope. I hear you, pretty much unconditionally. Adding UX tag &
Cc-ing my favourite UX homie. :)
 
Cheers,

-- Thorsten

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

attachment0 (205 bytes) Download Attachment
spaetz spaetz
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by spaetz
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:26:54 +0100, Sebastian Spaeth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Am I the only one finding the current status bar pretty much useless?

May I propose these changes to the writer statusbar? These have been
achieved by modifying a few lines of .xml and are much cleaner IMHO.

See the old and the new one attached in this file (the real thing, not
just a mockup):


Changes:

1) Don't autosize the Page number, page style, and language dialog. They
look much better when using just the space they need.

2) Remove the Selection mode thing. Unless people are really using
that.

3) Remove that horrid page layout thing. I doubt people switch from
single to double page layout that often to warrant a status bar entry.

4) Don't show zoom percentages. It doesn't really provide info in a
writer doc, and we have magnetic markers for the 100% anyway.

What was not easily fixable is:
- Show useful tolltips for the remaining entries
- Ideally make the INSRT/OVER thing just be a non-click status
information thingie. Most keyboards have a dedicated key for that.
- Consistently let's launch things on single or double-click but not one
or the other in some cases.

Review/Feedback?

Sebastian

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

attachment0 (203 bytes) Download Attachment
statusbars.png (13K) Download Attachment
Nigel Hawkins Nigel Hawkins
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 12:12 +0100, Sebastian Spaeth wrote:
> 2) Remove the Selection mode thing. Unless people are really using
> that.

I use it. Probably not often enough to warrant it being on the status
bar permanently, but it does get used.

Nigel

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by spaetz
Hi Sebastian,

On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 11:26 +0100, Sebastian Spaeth wrote:

> - What annoys me most is the "document modified indicator". If it is
>   unmodified, I see some *empty* separators in the status bar (why do we
>   show empty separators? these should GO GO GO away) and the mouse
>   tooltip over the *empty* separator says "this document has not been
>   modified". When I type, I get a document with an exclamation mark, and
>   the tooltip changes to "this document has been modified".
>
>   a) This is  the standard state of my documents (see,  I tend to modify
>      docs in  a editor,  DOH), and that  exclamation mark  purports some
>      sense of urgency and failure.
>
>   b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
>      always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
>      with it.

Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
whether or not the document is currently modified.  A lot of people were
using the save icon status for that purpose, but some users (including
myself) also didn't like the fact that you can't always save the
document especially when the app *thinks* it's not modified (note: there
are times when the document is marked unmodified, but some data are
modified such as the cursor position, zoom level etc.).

In response to this, LibreOffice provides a configuration option to
allow users to be able to always save the current document.  Turning on
this option, however, leaves the save icon always enabled (and
rightfully so), which to those users who were using it to see the
document modified status takes away that visual clue.  Hence the
document modified status icon on the status bar was placed as a
replacement.  Some of us even think that we should turn on this option
by default.  Currently it's off by default.

So, that's the background on this indicator.  I'm afraid we can't remove
this unless there is really really good reason to do so. ;-)

Kohei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> >   b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
> >      always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
> >      with it.
>
> Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
> and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> whether or not the document is currently modified.
>
Hi Kohei,

ok, but maybe there are other means to get that info across? The
status bar, generally, uses up precious horizontal screen real
estate, for very little benefit.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten, who likes the '*' prefix on the window title bar

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

attachment0 (205 bytes) Download Attachment
Regina Henschel Regina Henschel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by spaetz
Hi Sebastian,

Sebastian Spaeth schrieb:
> Am I the only one finding the current status bar pretty much useless?

Yes ;)

To learn more about the status bar have a look at
http://www.ooowiki.de/StatusLeiste. It is in German and needs an update,
but the text shows, that the status bar is a great tool.

To get all the nice extended tips, I have added the button "Extended
Tips" (German "Aktive Hilfe") (category "Application") to the symbol
bar, so that I can switch it easily on and off.

kind regards
Regina
_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 16:11 +0100, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

> Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> > >   b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
> > >      always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
> > >      with it.
> >
> > Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
> > and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> > whether or not the document is currently modified.
> >
> Hi Kohei,
>
> ok, but maybe there are other means to get that info across?

Sure, if you have any good suggestions.

> The
> status bar, generally, uses up precious horizontal screen real
> estate, for very little benefit.

Well, status bar contains info about status, and document modified
"status" fits the bill, no? ;-)

> -- Thorsten, who likes the '*' prefix on the window title bar

Indeed, but just to put this in prospective, I've received tons of angry
emails from users when I suggested to always enable the save icon.  They
also said that things like a small '*' in the title bar would not be
obvious enough.

Obviously many users feel very *emotional* about this issue, and I found
it out the hard way.

Kohei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kevin Hunter Kevin Hunter
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Kohei Yoshida-2
At 9:54am -0500 Tue, 30 Nov 2010, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> Sorry I have to disagree there. I'm the one who put that icon there,
> and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> whether or not the document is currently modified. A lot of people
> were using the save icon status for that purpose, but some users
> (including myself) also didn't like the fact that you can't always
> save the document especially when the app *thinks* it's not modified
> (note: there are times when the document is marked unmodified, but
> some data are modified such as the cursor position, zoom level
> etc.).

Guilty as charged.  That's how I've historically known if it's time to
save.  (Because I can't be bothered to remember if I've done anything,
right?! ;-) )  But seriously, when I'm at a lull in thinking, I'll
glance there because I'm wary of the (historically) fairly regular
crashes of OO/LO and don't want to lose too much work.  I think I was
aware that the status icon was there, but it's not in my repertoire to
look there because it's somewhat hard to find (takes me a second to find
it, as opposed to the bigger, more distinct icon in the upper left).

Would not one response be that the logic behind the enabling/disabling
of the save button ought to be updated?  If a document can be saved, the
save button ought to be enabled, yes?

(Note, I'm strategically not making any statement about the icon.  :-)
yet.)

Kevin
_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Regina Henschel Regina Henschel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens
Hi Thorsten,

Thorsten Behrens schrieb:

> Kohei Yoshida wrote:
>>>    b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
>>>       always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
>>>       with it.
>>
>> Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
>> and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
>> whether or not the document is currently modified.
>>
> Hi Kohei,
>
> ok, but maybe there are other means to get that info across? The
> status bar, generally, uses up precious horizontal screen real
> estate, for very little benefit.

I too think, that this info can be removed from the status bar. But if
the save icon in the symbol bar is always enabled, a new place is
needed. Many applications on WinXp set an asterix in the title bar. Is
that possible on other OS too?

kind regards
Regina
_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Kevin Hunter
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 10:34 -0500, Kevin Hunter wrote:

> At 9:54am -0500 Tue, 30 Nov 2010, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> > Sorry I have to disagree there. I'm the one who put that icon there,
> > and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> > whether or not the document is currently modified. A lot of people
> > were using the save icon status for that purpose, but some users
> > (including myself) also didn't like the fact that you can't always
> > save the document especially when the app *thinks* it's not modified
> > (note: there are times when the document is marked unmodified, but
> > some data are modified such as the cursor position, zoom level
> > etc.).
>
> Guilty as charged.  That's how I've historically known if it's time to
> save.  (Because I can't be bothered to remember if I've done anything,
> right?! ;-) )  But seriously, when I'm at a lull in thinking, I'll
> glance there because I'm wary of the (historically) fairly regular
> crashes of OO/LO and don't want to lose too much work.  I think I was
> aware that the status icon was there, but it's not in my repertoire to
> look there because it's somewhat hard to find (takes me a second to find
> it, as opposed to the bigger, more distinct icon in the upper left).

Well, I'm not sure if it's *that* hard to find.  I myself find it easy
enough to see the lower middle part of the window in the corner of my
eye. :-)  Sebastian even found it annoying enough, which tells us that
it was rather close to being "right in your face" for him. ;-)

BTW, it was originally a simple textural '*' in that small window of the
status bar, which was pretty much ignored by almost all users that I've
come in contact with.

> Would not one response be that the logic behind the enabling/disabling
> of the save button ought to be updated?  

Sure, any suggestions are welcome for this.

> If a document can be saved, the
> save button ought to be enabled, yes?

Absolutely.  And when the document can be always saved, the icon remains
enabled at all times.  But many users didn't like that and started
filing bugs left and right for it.

Kohei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Regina Henschel
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 16:42 +0100, Regina Henschel wrote:

> Hi Thorsten,
>
> Thorsten Behrens schrieb:
> > Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> >>>    b) We warn when closing a modified doc anyway, so there is no need to
> >>>       always warn me and use up precious space. I propose to just do away
> >>>       with it.
> >>
> >> Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
> >> and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> >> whether or not the document is currently modified.
> >>
> > Hi Kohei,
> >
> > ok, but maybe there are other means to get that info across? The
> > status bar, generally, uses up precious horizontal screen real
> > estate, for very little benefit.
>
> I too think, that this info can be removed from the status bar. But if
> the save icon in the symbol bar is always enabled, a new place is
> needed. Many applications on WinXp set an asterix in the title bar. Is
> that possible on other OS too?

I too think that the title bar would be the most logical place to put
this info if we were to find a replacement location.  But I'm not sure
if it can be easily identified by those users who currently rely on the
save icon status.  The save icon is big and obvious, whereas an '*' in
the title bar is not as equally obvious.  Also, not all Windows apps
follow this practice, the most significant one being MS Office, though
in MS Office's case, it doesn't show document modified status *at all*,
anywhere.  In fact, none of the standard apps in Windows 7 (notepad,
wordpad, paint etc) show asterisks at all.  The only app that still
shows asterisks are Vistual Studio 2010, though not in the title bar but
in the file name tab.

BTW, I guess I'm the only one who thinks that the status bar is the most
logical place to put the document status info?  To me, some of the other
tools currently on the status bar are not logically placed, but I do
find the document status logically fit in there.  Plus it's the smallest
of all the controls currently on the status bar.  Removing that would
not radically improve the real estate of the status bar.

Kohei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Joe Smith Joe Smith
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Kohei Yoshida-2
On 11/30/2010 09:54 AM, Kohei Yoshida wrote:

>
> Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
> and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> whether or not the document is currently modified.  A lot of people were
> using the save icon status for that purpose, but some users (including
> myself) also didn't like the fact that you can't always save the
> document especially when the app *thinks* it's not modified (note: there
> are times when the document is marked unmodified, but some data are
> modified such as the cursor position, zoom level etc.).
>
> In response to this, LibreOffice provides a configuration option...

Is there a use case to justify exposing any of this to users?

 From what I've seen, users only expect one thing: a way to reliably
save their work.

A "force save" function could be useful in some unusual situations, but
it's only interesting to experts. Provide it as a function that can be
bound if needed, or just use Save As and don't change the name.

Some feedback as to whether the save request was completed is nice but
optional. If present, it should be unobtrusive and not (permanently)
shown on the status bar. A mysterious but attention-grabbing icon
definitely seems a step in the wrong direction.

I think Sebastian has raised a number of good points. Forcing users to
deal with stuff that only experts care about is a huge problem with OOo;
I sincerely hope LibO can do better.

<Joe

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Tor Lillqvist Tor Lillqvist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

>  From what I've seen, users only expect one thing: a way to reliably
> save their work.

Of course, that is just because users of traditional desktop OSes have learned it the hard way that you need to "save" your document often in order to avoid data loss in case of crashes and whatnot.

In environments that have dared leave this whole document being edited vs. file in file system paradigm, like most (?) iOS apps, and probably also other mobile OS apps, there is no separate "save" functionality. And users seem to like it very much.

--tml


_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Joe Smith
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 12:30 -0500, Joe Smith wrote:

> On 11/30/2010 09:54 AM, Kohei Yoshida wrote:
> >
> > Sorry I have to disagree there.  I'm the one who put that icon there,
> > and the reason for that was to have a visually obvious way to tell
> > whether or not the document is currently modified.  A lot of people were
> > using the save icon status for that purpose, but some users (including
> > myself) also didn't like the fact that you can't always save the
> > document especially when the app *thinks* it's not modified (note: there
> > are times when the document is marked unmodified, but some data are
> > modified such as the cursor position, zoom level etc.).
> >
> > In response to this, LibreOffice provides a configuration option...
>
> Is there a use case to justify exposing any of this to users?

Can you expand on what you mean by 'any of this'?

>  From what I've seen, users only expect one thing: a way to reliably
> save their work.

Yes, and to me it's equally important to give the users the ability to
save the document regardless of whether or not the app *thinks* the
document is modified (which is often wrong in some circumstances).

> A "force save" function could be useful in some unusual situations, but
> it's only interesting to experts.

Nobody is talking about "forced save" here.  You still have to hit
Ctrl-S to save the document.  We are talking about always *enabling* the
save action.

KOhei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Kohei Yoshida-2
Hi Kohei,

Kohei Yoshida wrote (30-11-10 17:25)

> [...]
> Removing that would
> not radically improve the real estate of the status bar.

   Indeed.
   Plus that I guess there are quite some interesting Calc/Excel issues
out there, waiting for 'some love', as Thorsten always can say so kindly.

   As you wrote in another mail (and rewritten a bit by me): the smaller
the control, the stronger the feelings seem to be ;-)

Cor

--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Joe Smith
Hi Joe,

Joe Smith wrote (30-11-10 18:30)
> I think Sebastian has raised a number of good points. Forcing users to
> deal with stuff that only experts care about is a huge problem with OOo;
> I sincerely hope LibO can do better.

Information given by the status bar, plus the control options it gives,
often is important for users I advise. That are users that do more than
copy paste - Ctrl-A - set font size and name, yes. But really expert ..
that is only a part of them.


Regards,
Cor


--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Kohei Yoshida-2 Kohei Yoshida-2
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 19:44 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:

> Hi Kohei,
>
> Kohei Yoshida wrote (30-11-10 17:25)
>
> > [...]
> > Removing that would
> > not radically improve the real estate of the status bar.
>
>    Indeed.
>    Plus that I guess there are quite some interesting Calc/Excel issues
> out there, waiting for 'some love', as Thorsten always can say so kindly.
>
>    As you wrote in another mail (and rewritten a bit by me): the smaller
> the control, the stronger the feelings seem to be ;-)

:-)

Well, all I'm trying to do is to make sure that whoever will make the
decision understand the rationale and background behind the placement of
the document modified icon in the status bar.  I've done what I did
based of several iterations of trials and errors, lots of discussions
with the Oracle folks & some vocal OOo users, lots of bug reports filed
etc etc etc.  So the decision was not made in some random fashion.

As long as that's understood, and if we still believe that icon needs to
go, then I'm fine with it.  I would personally be disappointed for sure,
but we are here for the greater vision.

Kohei

--
Kohei Yoshida, LibreOffice hacker, Calc
<[hidden email]>

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens
Hi Thorsten, hi Sebastian, all! :-)

Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 12:00 +0100 schrieb Thorsten Behrens:
> Sebastian Spaeth wrote:
> > Am I the only one finding the current status bar pretty much useless?
> >
> Nope. I hear you, pretty much unconditionally. Adding UX tag &
> Cc-ing my favourite UX homie. :)

I hope you know to whom you sent your mail ;-) But, mmh, since we
finally want to come in touch with some more UX guys, how about adding
the Design mailing list for such issues?

Although I'd like to refer to some of the issues already discussed here,
I feel free to start a new thread - to keep some thoughts in one place.
But what to think about? Well, it seems the discussion is about: the
"document changed" indication, and the status bar in general.


STATUS BAR

Let's start with the latter ... Sebastian named the thread "LibreOffice
status bar annoyances" and he is somehow right. There are issues
resulting from a very old and a "driven by constraints" design. For
example, the little '*' is mainly caused by the need for a very compact
symbol - here, please think in 480px width.

Some more issues of the current design:
      * The indicators mix information and invisible actions (click,
        double-click for some surprise)
      * Information is shown by hiding it (document changed status,
        document signed status)
      * It misses charm with all its "INSRT", "BLK" and "STD" (And, when
        the block selection has been introduced, the menu has been
        changed to introduce a bit more clutter, sigh.)
      * It looks very dated and cluttered

Agreed?

Concerning the "dated look": The OOo guys reworked the status bar to
remove some of the lines and boxes. Here is some discussion [1], and the
issue [2].

Concerning the weird information representation: Within the discussions
of the "new" zoom slider, I started to add ideas how to rework the
status bar. Today, I would have done it a bit different, but maybe it's
interesting for you to look at antique (3 years old) data :-) [3]

You may notice, that the selection modes thing has been changed, and
that all the items in the status bar got their own visual symbol to
improve the representation. I also added "no outline level" ("Keine
Gliederungsebene") to teach the user what the slot is used for (today,
it is empty). This might have helped to reduce the hazzles one could
read today on the TDF discuss list [4].

Concerning the "view selectors" at the bottom: Some of you might not use
it, but we should be careful to remove something which had been
intentionally added by Microsoft some years ago. I'm sure they did some
serious research ... especially when looking on our totally screwed UI
that hides these options in the "Zoom ..." dialog (a side note: we do
have a view menu).


DOCUMENT CHANGED INDICATION

I read all the comments very carefully and I understand some thoughts
and concerns. However, the constraints / requirements do support Kohei's
solution (if we want to keep the current save toolbar icon approach).

A solution should:
      * just work
      * be unobtrusive (don't catch attention if it isn't required,
        don't waste space)
      * be self-explanatory (if possible)

Concerning the latter, this is impossible with any approach. But to
inform the user, the title bar totally misses any kind of tool tip or
help text that explains its use(fulness).

But the current solution isn't perfect, of course. Current issues:
      * The extended help tip still mentions the '*' for a changed
        document.
      * For unsaved documents, the normal tool tip mentions "The
        document has not been modified since the last save." (Small
        issue, may not be changed).
      * The red "!" is indeed a bit strange considering the importance
        of this message.
      * The icon does not communicate any behavioral difference - it is
        just a status information, but looks very similar to the view
        mode buttons etc.
      * The "double-click behavior" is inconsistent to all platforms I
        know of. It may even be problematic for some users ...
        personally, I would remove it.

But how to address the issues you raised? My personal take:
      * Keep the status indicator where it is (in the status bar)
      * If the document is unmodified, add some very subtle document
        shape. Then, there is a reason for showing a tool tip and the
        "What's that?!" effect may be reduced.
      * For the modified document, reduce the "warning" level and -
        maybe - just show a document icon with a yellow star in it. This
        a) is similar to the old '*', and b) is used for to indicate new
        documents on certain platforms.

And, just a small intentional idea - what about adding a bit more value
to this "feature". For example, add the "Document is modified. Saved XXX
minutes ago." time to the tool tip. If things go wrong, people tend to
look at their data files to know how long they have been working on this
document - so discarding any changes might then be safe.


Well, I hope this helped anyhow ... I don't know :-)

Cheers,
Christoph


[1]
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance:Status_Meetings:2010-01-18

[2] http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=108321

[3]
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7j1oz1mNWErztZKj45Bycw?feat=directlink

[4] http://go.mail-archive.com/O4_kyh7rx0A5Mr-71f6bi_TzM_4=

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [UX] LO status bar annoyances

Hi Christoph, all,

Christoph Noack wrote (30-11-10 22:31)

> Some more issues of the current design:
> [...]
>
> Agreed?

I do not object improving the Status Bar. Although I tend to find other
subjects more important. But that is just me of course, who fights more
with compatibility issues then with lacking/superfluous info on a bar at
the bottom of the window.

Speaking about info: there is an OOo issue to add the column position in
the text (and the height ? can't remember that)  to the status bar.
People know that from Word.
And now that we say wordprocessor: we have a status bar to in Calc,
Impress, Draw, ...
Pls keep in mind if possible improvements are valid for those too.

> Well, I hope this helped anyhow ... I don't know :-)

Who would dare to deny that? I surely not ;-)

Ciao - Cor

--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Next » 123