LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

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All:

Between the talk about LibreOffice branding, and creating documentation
for LibreOffice, has anybody considered the template to be used for
LibreOffice Documentation?

@ Do we use the same template as OOoAuthors, with the following changes:
* Replace the OpenOffice.org logo with the LibreOffice logo;
* Replace the OOo Blue colour scheme with the LibreOffice branding palette;

@ Or do we a create a brand new template, ignoring the existing
OOoAuthors template;

@ Do we create a brand new template, including aspects of the existing
OOoAuthors template;

@ Do we do something else;

jonathon
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Andy Brown Andy Brown
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Hi Jonathon,

On Wed Nov 03 2010 11:19:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  jonathon wrote:

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>
> All:
>
> Between the talk about LibreOffice branding, and creating documentation
> for LibreOffice, has anybody considered the template to be used for
> LibreOffice Documentation?
>
> @ Do we use the same template as OOoAuthors, with the following changes:
> * Replace the OpenOffice.org logo with the LibreOffice logo;
> * Replace the OOo Blue colour scheme with the LibreOffice branding palette;

My personal feeling is that we do this.  Easier in the long term to just
changes than to completely redo with work.  May as well start from
scratch if we do that.

Andy

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Ron Faile Ron Faile
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation




________________________________
From: Andy Brown <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:35:40 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Hi Jonathon,

On Wed Nov 03 2010 11:19:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  jonathon wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> All:
>
> Between the talk about LibreOffice branding, and creating documentation
> for LibreOffice, has anybody considered the template to be used for
> LibreOffice Documentation?
>
> @ Do we use the same template as OOoAuthors, with the following changes:
> * Replace the OpenOffice.org logo with the LibreOffice logo;
> * Replace the OOo Blue colour scheme with the LibreOffice branding palette;

My personal feeling is that we do this.  Easier in the long term to just changes
than to completely redo with work.  May as well start from scratch if we do
that.

Andy

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deleted

I've done some work on modifying the existing OOo template (see  attached). Jean
added the new logo and text colors and I've made some  edits to the text and
updated all the page styles from OOo to LibO.  Which ever way we go, I think we
need to agree on a new font for all the  docs. The current DejaVu font seems
hard to read to me. The character  spacing seems a bit odd. Maybe something more
clear and modern.

Ron
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Jeff Prater Jeff Prater
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by jonathon-6
> @ Or do we a create a brand new template, ignoring the existing
> OOoAuthors template;
>
>
I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally
rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
that makes any sense.

I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
"Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
which direction to scroll/flip through the document.

Just my $0.02.

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Ron Faile Ron Faile
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

>I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally

>rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
>and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
>that makes any sense.

>I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
>easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
>"Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
>reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
>which direction to scroll/flip through the document.

I agree on all points.

Ron
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Jean Weber Jean Weber
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by Jeff Prater
On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 19:19 -0400, Jeff Prater wrote:
> > @ Or do we a create a brand new template, ignoring the existing
> > OOoAuthors template;
> >
> >
> I haven't been involved all that much, but I would suggest totally
> rebranding the documentation. Personally, I never much cared for the layout
> and looks of the OOo guides--I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
> that makes any sense.

True, but a lot of more modern looks do not output well to any format
other than PDF. In fact, some of the formatting in the current OOo books
does not work when output to HTML and some is a bit messy when output to
wiki format. Post-processing may clean it up, but more manual
intervention may be necessary. This is something to consider --and
test-- when deciding which output formats and layouts are wanted.

>
> I would like the documents to use outline numbering because it makes it
> easier to reference previous portions of the document. Instead of saying
> "Please reference the Formatting Paragraphs section," you would say "Please
> reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs." This way the user can easily identify
> which direction to scroll/flip through the document.


Outline numbering makes a book look much more "technical" and can be
very offputting to ordinary users. So it's good in material for
sysadmins, developers, etc, but I would strongly advise against it in
end-user oriented books, despite the potential advantage you have
mentioned.

Also, on a practical note: you would need to investigate (test) how to
implement automated numbering in the individual chapter files so it
behaves (doesn't change) when part of a compiled book AND the table of
contents displays the correct section and page numbers. The TOC was the
problem in many systems we attempted to use. For example, I really
wanted to use page-numbering-by-chapter (so the page numbers in the
individual chapter files matched those in the compiled book), but the
TOC in the compiled book wouldn't do it correctly. I haven't checked
recently to see if this has changed.

--Jean


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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Ron:
>>-I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
>> that makes any sense.

I totally agree, the old template does look 'old'. With LibreOffice
being a 'new' product I think it is very important to rebrand and
modernise. An updated font and colour scheme will be very important to
make it appear 'new'.

>> I would like the documents to use outline numbering <> you would say "Please
>> reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs."

This sounds fantastic. I have found in my work as a professional end
user I always use outline numbering. It makes it look more
professional and brings with it some big advantages for ease of use. I
don't think it would make it unapproachable as Jean suggests as a lot
of end user products now use numbered outlines (See
Wikipedia:OpenOffice.org). I also think this more professional look
would also assist the LibreOffice product in breaking into enterprise
markets.

Jean:
> Also, on a practical note: you would need to investigate (test) how to
> implement automated numbering in the individual chapter files so it
> behaves (doesn't change) when part of a compiled book AND the table of
> contents displays the correct section and page numbers. The TOC was the
> problem in many systems we attempted to use. For example, I really
> wanted to use page-numbering-by-chapter (so the page numbers in the
> individual chapter files matched those in the compiled book), but the
> TOC in the compiled book wouldn't do it correctly. I haven't checked
> recently to see if this has changed.

This is a challenge. The good part is that if the chapter and
numbering system does not allow us to do this we can alter the program
so that it can handle this requirement, and it is a very important
requirement for many professional end users.

Michael Wheatland (Wheatbix)
www.wheatland.com.au

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour scheme.
It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
the professional look.

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ

What do you all think?


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ron:
>>>-I always thought they looked a bit "old" if
>>> that makes any sense.
>
> I totally agree, the old template does look 'old'. With LibreOffice
> being a 'new' product I think it is very important to rebrand and
> modernise. An updated font and colour scheme will be very important to
> make it appear 'new'.
>
>>> I would like the documents to use outline numbering <> you would say "Please
>>> reference 7.2 Formatting Paragraphs."
>
> This sounds fantastic. I have found in my work as a professional end
> user I always use outline numbering. It makes it look more
> professional and brings with it some big advantages for ease of use. I
> don't think it would make it unapproachable as Jean suggests as a lot
> of end user products now use numbered outlines (See
> Wikipedia:OpenOffice.org). I also think this more professional look
> would also assist the LibreOffice product in breaking into enterprise
> markets.
>
> Jean:
>> Also, on a practical note: you would need to investigate (test) how to
>> implement automated numbering in the individual chapter files so it
>> behaves (doesn't change) when part of a compiled book AND the table of
>> contents displays the correct section and page numbers. The TOC was the
>> problem in many systems we attempted to use. For example, I really
>> wanted to use page-numbering-by-chapter (so the page numbers in the
>> individual chapter files matched those in the compiled book), but the
>> TOC in the compiled book wouldn't do it correctly. I haven't checked
>> recently to see if this has changed.
>
> This is a challenge. The good part is that if the chapter and
> numbering system does not allow us to do this we can alter the program
> so that it can handle this requirement, and it is a very important
> requirement for many professional end users.
>
> Michael Wheatland (Wheatbix)
> www.wheatland.com.au
>

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Carlos Jenkins Carlos Jenkins
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Hi!

2010/11/4 Michael Wheatland <[hidden email]>

> I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour
> scheme.
> It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
> the professional look.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ
>
> What do you all think?
>
OMG, that font is hard to read :( What font are you using? Or is because of
the distribution media?

Cheers

--
http://www.cjenkins.net/
http://csl-tec.softwarelibrecr.org/

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

The font is Liberation Sans. Suitable Name, and one of the better GPL fonts.

It looks like Google translates the pages into image files.
You can find it here in ODT format:

www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockUp.odt
or
www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockup.pdf

I have embedded the font in the pdf version or you should have the
Liberation Fonts installed.


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Carlos Jenkins <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> 2010/11/4 Michael Wheatland <[hidden email]>
>
>> I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour
>> scheme.
>> It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
>> the professional look.
>>
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ
>>
>> What do you all think?
>>
> OMG, that font is hard to read :( What font are you using? Or is because of
> the distribution media?
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> http://www.cjenkins.net/
> http://csl-tec.softwarelibrecr.org/
>
> --
> E-mail to [hidden email] for instructions on how to unsubscribe
> List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/documentation/
> All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Le 2010-11-04 07:40, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

> The font is Liberation Sans. Suitable Name, and one of the better GPL fonts.
>
> It looks like Google translates the pages into image files.
> You can find it here in ODT format:
>
> www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockUp.odt
> or
> www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockup.pdf
>
> I have embedded the font in the pdf version or you should have the
> Liberation Fonts installed.
>
>

Liberation fonts are installed by default on most, if not all, Linux
boxes. Not sure of Win boxes, and I suspect not by default as they are
meant as replacement for the set of MS ariel etc. fonts.

Marc



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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Le 2010-11-04 07:40, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

BTW .. you may be interested in keeping an eye on a thread on the
marketing mailist "Change icon?". I don't know if this affects you if
the changes are adopted.

Marc


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Ron Faile Ron Faile
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
On 11/4/2010 6:40 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote:

> The font is Liberation Sans. Suitable Name, and one of the better GPL fonts.
>
> It looks like Google translates the pages into image files.
> You can find it here in ODT format:
>
> www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockUp.odt
> or
> www.wheatland.com.au/libreoffice/LibreOfficeMockup.pdf
>
> I have embedded the font in the pdf version or you should have the
> Liberation Fonts installed.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Carlos Jenkins<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> 2010/11/4 Michael Wheatland<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> I have made a mock up document with the LibreOffice branding and colour
>>> scheme.
>>> It also includes the number outline system, which personally I love
>>> the professional look.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B93nEslnhQO_YjAwMDE1ZDctNDM3MC00MTE0LTk5NDItNzlhZGFjNWQyODlh&hl=en&authkey=CKSL9MgJ
>>>
>>> What do you all think?
>>>
>> OMG, that font is hard to read :( What font are you using? Or is because of
>> the distribution media?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>> http://www.cjenkins.net/
>> http://csl-tec.softwarelibrecr.org/
>>
>> --
>> E-mail to [hidden email] for instructions on how to unsubscribe
>> List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/documentation/
>> All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>>
>>
I like the more modern look and the numbering. Can we remove the 'this
pdf is designed to be read...' section? Or move it down lower in the
document and give it a Printing Tips help tip so it's not on the title
page? I like the Liberation Sans font. Not so much the Serif. The Sans
really goes well with the LibreOffice logo. Can we maybe have the
hyperlinks in Liberation Sans as well?

On the Joomla templates page
http://www.joomlart.com/demo/#drupal-themes.joomlart.com/jd_purity under
Paragraph Styles, it shows some nicely formatted paragraphs for
information, cautions, etc. that I think we could adapt and would look
great in our documents. Especially the information icon with blue text
and maybe add a blue line above and below the information box. It would
make those sections of our documents stand out in a professional way.

Ron



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Jeff Prater Jeff Prater
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

I'm mainly a Windows user so I don't know much about fonts on Apple and
Linux systems. Are there specific fonts that are installed on all three
platforms? I'm sure Microsoft's Cambria font wouldn't be installed on a
Linux system, but what about Arial, Times New Roman, or even Georgia?

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Carlos Jenkins Carlos Jenkins
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

2010/11/4 Jeff Prater <[hidden email]>

> I'm mainly a Windows user so I don't know much about fonts on Apple and
> Linux systems. Are there specific fonts that are installed on all three
> platforms? I'm sure Microsoft's Cambria font wouldn't be installed on a
> Linux system, but what about Arial, Times New Roman, or even Georgia?
>
Be default no... and legally installed I think no. Those are propietary
fonts :( But we have free fonts too :D

BTW, Michael, the PDF looks better, it was the distribution media that
affected legibility :D

Cheers

--
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http://csl-tec.softwarelibrecr.org/

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by Jeff Prater
There is quite often arguements in the Ubuntu community regarding
fonts and the copyright that Microsoft holds for work that is made
using them. I don't think Microsoft would ever think about using this
copyright, yet they still persist with it and do not release their
fonts in an open way. You will find that Arial, TNR and Courier New
are read as 'Liberation Sans', 'Liberation Serif', 'Liberation Mono' ,
in Linux. Not sure about Macx,

The Liberation font set was an outcome of one of these arguements
across multiple communities that had been raging for some time.
I love the fonts, I think they are on par with MS fonts for screen
reading, I haven't really looked at printed typeface with them.

I think we should be using open licence fonts and the following links
are what I believe are the best of the bunch GPL Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(font)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2B_Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Libertine

The document that I sent out was simply a demonstration of what it
could look like.
Being new to the documentation team I don't want to push my views too
far and respect the work that has come before me, it is amazing how
much is there.

I think the larger Documentation team must discuss the numbered
outline before pushing it any further.
Also are we still going to have OOoAuthor trademarks on the
documentation or are we happy to associate the LibreOffice
documentation entirely with 'The Document Foundation' even if some
development is occurring on OOoAuthors?

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

In reply to this post by Jeff Prater
Le 2010-11-04 21:09, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

============

I think we should be using open licence fonts and the following links
are what I believe are the best of the bunch GPL Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_(font)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%2B_Fonts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Libertine

============

I believe that the Liberation font family is normally included in any
Linux OS. The font was constructed by RedHat as direct replacement to MS
primary fonts such as Ariel etc. They are also available for MSWin boxes
as downloads.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts

Marc




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Jeff Prater Jeff Prater
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

I just installed the Liberation fonts on my computer because they weren't
already installed. I think it would be nice if OpenOffice were to install
these fonts when the program itself was installed. This way everyone who
decided to look at the guides would have the correct fonts installed
automatically.

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

Le 2010-11-05 07:28, Jeff Prater a écrit :
> I just installed the Liberation fonts on my computer because they weren't
> already installed. I think it would be nice if OpenOffice were to install
> these fonts when the program itself was installed. This way everyone who
> decided to look at the guides would have the correct fonts installed
> automatically.
>

Hi Jeff:

In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to
install rather than have a programme install it for you without your
permission. The user should always be in charge.

Are you on a Windows box?

Marc


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Jeff Prater Jeff Prater
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Re: LibreOffice Branding and Documentation

>
> In these cases, I think that it is always best to suggest to the user to
> install rather than have a programme install it for you without your
> permission. The user should always be in charge.
>
> Are you on a Windows box?
>
>
I don't understand the "permission" aspect of having LibreOffice install
fonts automatically. If a user is voluntarily installing the program, then
they should accept whatever modifications the program performs. If would be
one thing if LibreOffice was installing a virus--it's simply installing
fonts which provide for a better user experience. It seems like it would
make sense for it to install free, open source fonts, especially if the
documentation is going to use a font other users may not have. We use
OpenOffice exclusively in my organization, and I can honestly tell you not a
single computer (300 of them) has the Liberation fonts installed. If I
wanted to distribute the documentation guide to my coworkers, they would not
be able to view it in its entirety.

And yes, I use Windows exclusively.

Jeff

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Next » 123