LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

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Olivier Hallot Olivier Hallot
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LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

Hi

Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the
mathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred flipped E?

Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a bug is already
open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it?

Thanks in advance.
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Isaac Hummel-2 Isaac Hummel-2
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

On 05/03/2011 03:26 PM, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi
>
> Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the
> mathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred flipped E?
>
> Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a bug is
> already open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it?
>
> Thanks in advance.

This seems like something that fits much better in the LibreOffice-Users
mailing list (which is designed for questions like this). Maybe you'd
get a quicker response there.

http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/#users

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Jean-Baptiste_Faure Jean-Baptiste_Faure
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Olivier Hallot
Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a écrit :
> Hi
>
> Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the
> mathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred flipped E?
>
> Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a bug is already
> open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it?
>
> Thanks in advance.

Hi Olivier,

Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?

Best regards
JBF

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Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"



On 2011-05-04 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:

> Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a écrit :
>  
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the
>> mathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred flipped E?
>>
>> Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a bug is already
>> open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>    
> Hi Olivier,
>
> Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?
>
> Best regards
> JBF
>
>  

Is it ∃! or ∉
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols in case
unicode above is not transmitted by the list server and please advise if
the symbol is there.
steve

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Olivier Hallot Olivier Hallot
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

Hi

Thanks for the time to answer.

The symbol is not in the wikipage indicated.

It's an "∃ overlapped with /", or barred ∃, the negation of "exist" (∃).

I wonder if this symbol can be added to Math, and if there is a code
(unicode) for it.

Regards
Olivier



Em 04-05-2011 02:07, Steve Edmonds escreveu:

>
>
> On 2011-05-04 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>> Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Does anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent the
>>> mathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred flipped E?
>>>
>>> Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a bug is already
>>> open, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track it?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>> Hi Olivier,
>>
>> Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?
>>
>> Best regards
>> JBF
>>
>>
>
> Is it ∃! or ∉
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols in case
> unicode above is not transmitted by the list server and please advise if
> the symbol is there.
> steve
>

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Voicing the enterprise needs
LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese
+55-21-8822-8812

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Mike Hall Mike Hall
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

Unicode Character 'THERE DOES NOT EXIST' (U+2204)
==============================================================


see...www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2204/index.htm... easily found with a Google searchMikeOn 04/05/2011 11:07, Olivier Hallot wrote:HiThanks for the time to answer.The symbol is not in the wikipage indicated.It's an "∃ overlapped with /", or barred ∃, the negation of
      "exist" (∃).I wonder if this symbol can be added to Math, and if there is a
      code (unicode) for it.RegardsOlivierEm 04-05-2011 02:07, Steve Edmonds escreveu:On 2011-05-04 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a
          écrit :HiDoes anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to represent
            themathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred
            flipped E?Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a
            bug is alreadyopen, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to track
            it?Thanks in advance.Hi Olivier,Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?Best regardsJBFIs it ∃! or ∉Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbolsin
        caseunicode above is not transmitted by the list server and please
        advise ifthe symbol is there.steve--
Mike Hallwww.onepoyle.net
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Mike Hall Mike Hall
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

...should have added   ∄On 04/05/2011 11:12, Mike Hall wrote:Unicode Character 'THERE DOES NOT EXIST' (U+2204)
==============================================================


see...www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2204/index.htm... easily found with a Google searchMikeOn 04/05/2011 11:07, Olivier Hallot wrote:HiThanks for the time to answer.The symbol is not in the wikipage indicated.It's an "∃ overlapped with /", or barred ∃, the negation of
        "exist" (∃).I wonder if this symbol can be added to Math, and if there is a
        code (unicode) for it.RegardsOlivierEm 04-05-2011 02:07, Steve Edmonds escreveu:On 2011-05-04 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a
            écrit :HiDoes anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to
              represent themathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred
              flipped E?Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a
              bug is alreadyopen, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to
              track it?Thanks in advance.Hi Olivier,Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?Best regardsJBFIs it ∃! or ∉Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbolsin caseunicode above is not transmitted by the list server and please
          advise ifthe symbol is there.steve--
Mike Hallwww.onepoyle.net--
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Olivier Hallot Olivier Hallot
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

Thanks Mike for the tip

As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used
by Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.

So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
make it show in the Element window....

Olivier






Em 04-05-2011 07:13, Mike Hall escreveu:

> ...should have added   ∄On 04/05/2011 11:12, Mike Hall wrote:Unicode Character 'THERE DOES NOT EXIST' (U+2204)
> ==============================================================
>
>
> see...www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2204/index.htm... easily found with a Google searchMikeOn 04/05/2011 11:07, Olivier Hallot wrote:HiThanks for the time to answer.The symbol is not in the wikipage indicated.It's an "∃ overlapped with /", or barred ∃, the negation of
>          "exist" (∃).I wonder if this symbol can be added to Math, and if there is a
>          code (unicode) for it.RegardsOlivierEm 04-05-2011 02:07, Steve Edmonds escreveu:On 2011-05-04 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:Le 03/05/2011 21:26, Olivier Hallot a
>              écrit :HiDoes anybody knows if in LO Math there si a way to
>                represent themathematical symbol for "There is no", which is a barred
>                flipped E?Is it difficult to add it to the "Elements" windows? If a
>                bug is alreadyopen, and one of you knows it, can I get the number to
>                track it?Thanks in advance.Hi Olivier,Is "a notin b" the answer you asked for ?Best regardsJBFIs it ∃! or ∉Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbolsin caseunicode above is not transmitted by the list server and please
>            advise ifthe symbol is there.steve--
> Mike Hallwww.onepoyle.net--
> Mike Hallwww.onepoyle.net

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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot <[hidden email]>

> Thanks Mike for the tip
>
> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used by
> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>
> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
> make it show in the Element window....
>
> Olivier
>

Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like the ∄
symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the Ctrl
and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the hexdecimal
code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this type
of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
characters in LibreOffice Math....

Henri

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Olivier Hallot Olivier Hallot
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"



Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu:

> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>
>> Thanks Mike for the tip
>>
>> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used by
>> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>>
>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>> make it show in the Element window....
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>
> Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like the ∄
> symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the Ctrl
> and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the hexdecimal
> code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this type
> of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
> characters in LibreOffice Math....
>
> Henri
>

Hi
Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to type
such key combination!!!!!!

Does not work in Windows...

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Robert Derman Robert Derman
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

Olivier Hallot wrote:

>
>
> Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu:
>> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Thanks Mike for the tip
>>>
>>> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font,
>>> used by
>>> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>>>
>>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>>> make it show in the Element window....
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>
>> Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols
>> like the ∄
>> symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding
>> the Ctrl
>> and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the
>> hexdecimal
>> code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree,
>> this type
>> of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
>> characters in LibreOffice Math....
>>
>> Henri
>>
>
> Hi
> Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to
> type such key combination!!!!!!
>
> Does not work in Windows...
Since the majority of computer users have the Windows OS, it sounds like
we need to specifically add this character to the set of Math characters.

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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by mhenriday


On 5/05/11 4:11 AM, M Henri Day wrote:

> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>
>> Thanks Mike for the tip
>>
>> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used by
>> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>>
>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>> make it show in the Element window....
>>
>> Olivier
>>
> Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like the ∄
> symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the Ctrl
> and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the hexdecimal
> code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this type
> of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
> characters in LibreOffice Math....
>
> Henri
>
Can't Ctl+Shift+u on my mac but can paste the character ∄ into math.
steve

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Olivier Hallot
Hi Olivier, *,

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Olivier Hallot
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu:
>> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>>> make it show in the Element window....

Sure, but it won't be compatibility-foolproof - but in the meantime
you can add the symbol manually and use it by keyword.

>> [insert it by character code]
>
> Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to type
> such key combination!!!!!!

ctrl+shift+u, then release those, type the unicode hexcode, end input
with enter - no need to keep ctrl+shit+u pressed all the time.

> Does not work in Windows...

No wonder as it's GTK's input-method feature, not provided by LO/OOo.

ciao
Christian

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Harold Fuchs Harold Fuchs
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Olivier Hallot

"Olivier Hallot" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

>
>
> Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu:
>> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Thanks Mike for the tip
>>>
>>> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used
>>> by
>>> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>>>
>>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>>> make it show in the Element window....
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>
>> Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like
>> the ∄
>> symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the
>> Ctrl
>> and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the
>> hexdecimal
>> code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this
>> type
>> of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
>> characters in LibreOffice Math....
>>
>> Henri
>>
>
> Hi
> Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to type
> such key combination!!!!!!
>
> Does not work in Windows...
>

See http://www.fileformat.info/tip/microsoft/enter_unicode.htm for ways of
entering Unicode characters in Windows. Method 1 works for me in Math and
also works in Writer provided I first choose the OpenSymbol font.

Harold Fuchs
London



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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Robert Derman
2011/5/4 Robert Derman <[hidden email]>

> Olivier Hallot wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Em 04-05-2011 13:11, M Henri Day escreveu:
>>
>>> 2011/5/4 Olivier Hallot<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>  Thanks Mike for the tip
>>>>
>>>> As I see, this character U+2204, does not exist in Opensymbol font, used
>>>> by
>>>> Math by default. At least not in the displayed characters of Math UI.
>>>>
>>>> So, if this symbol get implemented in Opensymbol, it will be trivial to
>>>> make it show in the Element window....
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Olivier, in Linux operating systems such as, e g, Ubuntu, symbols like
>>> the ∄
>>> symbol can easily be inserted in a LibreOffice document by holding the
>>> Ctrl
>>> and Shift keys and pressing u (Ctrl+Shift+u) and then typing the
>>> hexdecimal
>>> code (in this case) 2204 and pressing the space bar. But I agree, this
>>> type
>>> of logic symbol should certainly be included in the list of special
>>> characters in LibreOffice Math....
>>>
>>> Henri
>>>
>>>
>> Hi
>> Yes, in a Mandriva system as well, although I run out of fingers to type
>> such key combination!!!!!!
>>
>> Does not work in Windows...
>>
> Since the majority of computer users have the Windows OS, it sounds like we
> need to specifically add this character to the set of Math characters.
>

As I noted above, I quite agree that these logical symbols should be added
to the list of special characters in LibreOffice Math. However, until they
are, there exists a workaround for Windows users, which even works with
Windows 7 (checked on 64-bit Win7 Pro) ; namely, to install UnicodeInput (
http://www.fileformat.info/tool/unicodeinput/index.htm). Note, however, that
(for me at least), it is not the hex code, but rather the decimal code that
must be used to import the glyph ; thus entering «2204» (without the
quotation marks) in the tool gives me the desired ∄, whereas entering
«089c»gives me a glyph I cannot read ࢜ with the fonts I have installed on
Win7....

Henri

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 8:19 PM, M Henri Day <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2011/5/4 Robert Derman <[hidden email]>
> [...]
> (for me at least), it is not the hex code, but rather the decimal code that
> must be used to import the glyph ; thus entering «2204» (without the
> quotation marks) in the tool gives me the desired ∄, whereas entering
> «089c»gives me a glyph I cannot read ࢜ with the fonts I have installed on

Nope - that's double conversion you're doing here.. 2204 is already
hex value. that in decimal would be 8708

While probably not so useful for this case, you can also modify
windows keyboard layouts to have access to more key-combinations.

http://microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx

ciao
Christian

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James Cloos James Cloos
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Olivier Hallot
>>>>> "OH" == Olivier Hallot <[hidden email]> writes:

OH> The symbol is not in the wikipage indicated.
OH> It's an "∃ overlapped with /", or barred ∃, the negation of "exist" (∃).

That character is in the UCS and Unicode as:

     U+2204  THERE DOES NOT EXIST  ∄

The whole 2200..22F1 block dates from unicode 1.1, so any font which
supports U+2203  THERE EXISTS  ∃ should also support ∄.

You might need to use the code point to enter that character in
libreoffice.

-JimC
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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

In reply to this post by Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
2011/5/4 Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>

> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 8:19 PM, M Henri Day <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 2011/5/4 Robert Derman <[hidden email]>
> > [...]
> > (for me at least), it is not the hex code, but rather the decimal code
> that
> > must be used to import the glyph ; thus entering «2204» (without the
> > quotation marks) in the tool gives me the desired ∄, whereas entering
> > «089c»gives me a glyph I cannot read ࢜ with the fonts I have installed on
>
> Nope - that's double conversion you're doing here.. 2204 is already
> hex value. that in decimal would be 8708
>
> While probably not so useful for this case, you can also modify
> windows keyboard layouts to have access to more key-combinations.
>
> http://microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx
>
> ciao
> Christian


I'm not quite sure I follow you here, Christian ; 089c is the hexadecimal
representation of the number represented by the decimal 2204 ((12x16⁰ +
(9x16¹) + (8x16²)), so I don't understand where the «double conversion»
comes in. As I understand it, 2204 is the decimal and 089c the hexadecimal
code for the glyph «∄», and the first page of Table de caractères Unicode (
http://unicode.coeurlumiere.com/) would seem to back me up. But perhaps this
is a misunderstanding on my part, and if so, I should be grateful if you
would disabuse me....

Henri

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 PM, M Henri Day <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2011/5/4 Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>
> [...]
> I'm not quite sure I follow you here, Christian ; 089c is the hexadecimal
> representation of the number represented by the decimal 2204

Yes, but the 2204 is not a decimal number. 2204 is already a
hexadecimal representation.

> [...] so I don't understand where the «double conversion» comes in.

Your converting a "number" to hexadecimal that is already hexadecimal.
It is not two thousand two hundred and four, but 2*16³+2*16²+4 = 8708

> As I understand it, 2204 is the decimal and 089c the hexadecimal
> code for the glyph «∄»,

No. 2204 is the hexadecimal representation, and 089c is a completely
different character (one that is not assigned)

> and the first page of Table de caractères Unicode (
> http://unicode.coeurlumiere.com/) would seem to back me up.

No, on the contrary, when you look up 089c there (go to 0890 in the
leftmost row, then go to the c = 12th column (starting to count with
0, i.e. the columns with characters are
0890, 0891, … 0899, 089A, 089B, 089C (=2204), 089D, 089E, 089F

Nowhere in the table's body, you'll see a hex digit, none of the small
numbers above the characters contains an a, b, c, d, e or f, while the
"outer" numbering does - thus those little number cannot be
hexadecimal, but those are the decimal ones, they are increased by one
left to right, top to bottom.

go to
http://unicode.coeurlumiere.com/?n=8192 locate the 2200 in the
leftmost index column, go to the 4th (again starting with 0) column
and you are at "our" character U+2204, with decimal number 8708.

> But perhaps this
> is a misunderstanding on my part, and if so, I should be grateful if you
> would disabuse me....

Hope that helps.

ciao
Christian

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mhenriday mhenriday
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Re: LibreOffice Math: "There is no"

2011/5/4 Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>

> On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 9:06 PM, M Henri Day <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 2011/5/4 Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>
> > [...]
> > I'm not quite sure I follow you here, Christian ; 089c is the hexadecimal
> > representation of the number represented by the decimal 2204
>
> Yes, but the 2204 is not a decimal number. 2204 is already a
> hexadecimal representation.
>
> > [...] so I don't understand where the «double conversion» comes in.
>
> Your converting a "number" to hexadecimal that is already hexadecimal.
> It is not two thousand two hundred and four, but 2*16³+2*16²+4 = 8708
>
> > As I understand it, 2204 is the decimal and 089c the hexadecimal
> > code for the glyph «∄»,
>
> No. 2204 is the hexadecimal representation, and 089c is a completely
> different character (one that is not assigned)
>
> > and the first page of Table de caractères Unicode (
> > http://unicode.coeurlumiere.com/) would seem to back me up.
>
> No, on the contrary, when you look up 089c there (go to 0890 in the
> leftmost row, then go to the c = 12th column (starting to count with
> 0, i.e. the columns with characters are
> 0890, 0891, … 0899, 089A, 089B, 089C (=2204), 089D, 089E, 089F
>
> Nowhere in the table's body, you'll see a hex digit, none of the small
> numbers above the characters contains an a, b, c, d, e or f, while the
> "outer" numbering does - thus those little number cannot be
> hexadecimal, but those are the decimal ones, they are increased by one
> left to right, top to bottom.
>
> go to
> http://unicode.coeurlumiere.com/?n=8192 locate the 2200 in the
> leftmost index column, go to the 4th (again starting with 0) column
> and you are at "our" character U+2204, with decimal number 8708.
>
> > But perhaps this
> > is a misunderstanding on my part, and if so, I should be grateful if you
> > would disabuse me....
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> ciao
> Christian
>

Thanks, Christian ; I stand corrected....

Henri

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