LibreOffice promo trailer?

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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hello together,

I would like to promote LibreOffice at my university because the
advertisement for Office365 there is a problem in matters of education
policy in my opinion.

Talking to the persons in charge it was not excluded to provide some
"airtime" for LibreOffice as well.

So my question: Is there any graphical or video material suitable for
video displays (so using text instead of sound because there are no
loudspeaker)? I couldn't find something suitable in the "LibreOffice -
The Document Foundation" YouTube channel [1].

Best regards and thx for LO
Roland

PS:
- The link to GMANE [2] on the mailing list overview [3] shows "Error 523".
- I suggest to add the (very) important "Please remember: everything you
post to our public mailing lists ... will be publicly archived and
cannot be deleted. So, please do post wisely." info of [3] to the
welcome mail and add the link to the particular archive ([4] in this
case) to the welcome text.

[1] https://invidio.us/channel/UCQAClQkZEm2rkWvU5bvCAXQ
[2] https://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentation.libreoffice.marketing
[3] https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/
[4] https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/index.html



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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Roland,

On 14/04/2019 14:57, Roland Hummel wrote:
>
> So my question: Is there any graphical or video material suitable for
> video displays (so using text instead of sound because there are no
> loudspeaker)? I couldn't find something suitable in the "LibreOffice -
> The Document Foundation" YouTube channel [1].

You could play the general introduction "This is LibreOffice" video, and
enable the English subtitles underneath:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KC0ZdcA6s8

Does that help?

Cheers,
Mike

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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Mike,

On 4/15/19 9:42 AM, Mike Saunders wrote:

>> So my question: Is there any graphical or video material suitable for
>> video displays (so using text instead of sound because there are no
>> loudspeaker)? I couldn't find something suitable in the "LibreOffice -
>> The Document Foundation" YouTube channel [1].
>
> You could play the general introduction "This is LibreOffice" video, and
> enable the English subtitles underneath:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KC0ZdcA6s8
>
> Does that help?

thank you, this looks promising, thank you!

Best regards
Roland


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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

On 15/04/2019 10:21, Roland Hummel wrote:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KC0ZdcA6s8
>>
>> Does that help?
>
> thank you, this looks promising, thank you!

Glad to hear it! Also, that video is three years old now, which is an
age in the software world of course, so I plan to make a new version at
some point. If you (or indeed anyone else) have any feedback or
suggestions for a newer version, just let me know!

Mike


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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Dear Mike,

On 4/15/19 10:26 AM, Mike Saunders wrote:
> Glad to hear it! Also, that video is three years old now, which is an
> age in the software world of course, so I plan to make a new version at
> some point. If you (or indeed anyone else) have any feedback or
> suggestions for a newer version, just let me know!

great, my suggestions for a new version:

1. The current version is well to use in a presentation but too long for
any kind of airtime. So there should a "spot version" as well (something
like 20 seconds?).

2. The part starting to explain software freedom (1:05-1:12 [1]) should
show more "convincing" picture material. Compare the FSF video "user
liberation" [2] watching 0:10-0:54: Here the speaker tells about
"freedom respecting tools" and what I *see* is a hammer that I can copy
and share with others (so what I hear fits to what I see). The
corresponding part in "This is LibreOffice" [1] shows the Download page
of libreoffice.org - showing the Download page would fit more in the
part "so try it today ... download the latest version" at 1:59 (no need
to end up with showing the download page but maybe cross-fading from the
LO logo to the download page and back to the logo).

3. Maybe some people of the FLOSS community would be very happy to see
the FSF logo next to the OSI logo in 1:15 and even more happy to hear
"it's free/libre/open source software" instead of "it's open source". ;)

4. The most essential part of a video promoting FLOSS should be about
the question "why I should I use FLOSS like LO?". "This is LibreOffice"
has the following answers:
4.1. it is a professional office suit -> okay, but MS Office is as well
4.2. "built around Open Document Format" -> okay, but doc(x) is an open
format as well; I know this was not MS' choice but decision makers
unfortunately argue with this fact *against* LO
4.3. "I can open many types of file from other office software" ->
interesting because most of the people don't know the fact that they
don't need Adobe Acrobat for editing PDFs, so I would emphasize the fact
that LO Draw can edit PDFs ("you can even edit PDF using LO Draw")
4.4. LO is "free to use, share and modify":

4.4.4. "free": for most of the people this means "without paying money"
so this is not a very convincing argument. At my university they sell
Office365 for 5€ to the students and a lot of them are very willing to
pay this small amount of money not considerung that they just payed 5€
for a "gateway drug". An LO trailer should emphasize that paying for
proprietary software ends up in paying for an "ankle monitor" (in terms
of "get them while they are young" and data privacy). Maybe a better
message would be "with LO you will always be free to donate but never be
forced to pay a license (and your personal data)".

4.4.5. "share": This is the most important fact about using FLOSS in my
opinion and should be the most important part of a LO promo trailer. The
message should be: It is *social* to use LO and *unsocial* to use
proprietary office suits. Prorpeitary office suites create vendor
lock-ins, LO not. Using LO you use and promote software that everyone in
the world can use, especially those who even can not spend 5€. So if you
use LO instead of MS Office you don't contribute to "*excluding* digital
(learning) spaces".

4.4.6 "modify": Not interesting for the majority of people because they
can not code. The interesting fact here should be that you can *let*
someone modify the software anytime. Maybe the trailer could point on
the history of LO: Most of the people *know* OpenOffice but *don't* know
LibreOffice so the video could tell something like "LO for exmaple was
developed by modifying an existing FLOSS: Do you remember OpenOffice?
LibreOffice started as a modification of OpenOffice to satisfy the
demands of users like you. LO will always allow you to (let someone)
modify it."

4.5 Emphasizing that LO is a stand-alone software would be an
interesting fact as well in times any software company tries to push
users to their cloud services, something like "using LO you will never
need an internet connection, it works fully offline."

I know that it is very hard to communicate all these facts in a trailer
of 2min. I think the whole part about the particular LO parts from 0:09
to 0:49 can be told in 10-20 seconds: "Use Writer for your text
documents, Calc for your tables, Impress for your presentations etc".
There is no need in my opinion to explain the users what they already
know using MS Office (the reaction I've experienced introducing people
to LO: "Ah okay, so "Writer" is "Word", "Calc" is "Excel" and "Impress"
is "PowerPoint", got it!").

Anyway: Thanks for all your work promoting LO. I hope my comments will
help making the existing nice promotion trailer even better! :)

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=3KC0ZdcA6s8
[2] https://u.fsf.org/user-liberation/



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Nigel Verity Nigel Verity
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

In reply to this post by Mike Saunders
Hi Mike

I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a while. I have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not a lot of information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is the availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream rather than as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to show these would entail almost a total re-recording.

There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that just updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact, is the cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be changed? Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.

Regards

Nige
________________________________
From: Mike Saunders <[hidden email]>
Sent: 15 April 2019 09:26
To: Roland Hummel; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

On 15/04/2019 10:21, Roland Hummel wrote:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3KC0ZdcA6s8&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb9d02382f86b45d1ebf208d6c17c1e0f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636909136151711601&amp;sdata=KHuguMoLMkGVr3dgmEHGRwPm0b6%2FnYhyexggwxspkg0%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> Does that help?
>
> thank you, this looks promising, thank you!

Glad to hear it! Also, that video is three years old now, which is an
age in the software world of course, so I plan to make a new version at
some point. If you (or indeed anyone else) have any feedback or
suggestions for a newer version, just let me know!

Mike


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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Nigel and Mike,

On 4/15/19 2:43 PM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a while. I have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not a lot of information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is the availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream rather than as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to show these would entail almost a total re-recording.
>
> There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that just updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact, is the cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be changed? Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.
>

looking for other LO promo material I found "Trailer Curso LibreOffice
Ecuador" [1]. I don't understand Spanish language but a friend
translated the essential parts for me and this video describes how FLOSS
like LO liberates the IT of countries like Ecuador so as I tried to
explain in my last mail:
An update of the official LO promo trailer that is a little bit more
"inspiring" the people why using LO has something to do with liberation
and social responsibility in digital age would justify time and money
needed for the update a lot.

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=8wLGesOotrg


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Nigel Verity Nigel Verity
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Roland, Mike


That is a very interesting point. Perhaps the challenge is to create a promotional video which appeals to both corporates and private individuals in equal measure.


Liberation and social responsibility should certainly appeal to individuals, but any justification for using LO which strays into the territory of "politics" may be of less appeal to companies. There will surely be decision-makers who have a social conscience but in the main I would suggest that a company which selects its business applications based on ethics rather than functionality is not doing its job properly. I don't necessarily applaud that standpoint but I think it is a fact all the same.


In short, I don't think LO should be promoted like those adverts we see proclaiming "buy our product because x% of our profits go to charity". LO is world-class software that justifies its existence on functionality alone. I think the challenge is to get the ethics message across without its being seen as a "bolt on" to increase its appeal further.


Regards


Nige


________________________________
From: Roland Hummel <[hidden email]>
Sent: 15 April 2019 21:47
To: Nigel Verity; Mike Saunders; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Nigel and Mike,

On 4/15/19 2:43 PM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a while. I have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not a lot of information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is the availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream rather than as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to show these would entail almost a total re-recording.
>
> There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that just updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact, is the cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be changed? Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.
>

looking for other LO promo material I found "Trailer Curso LibreOffice
Ecuador" [1]. I don't understand Spanish language but a friend
translated the essential parts for me and this video describes how FLOSS
like LO liberates the IT of countries like Ecuador so as I tried to
explain in my last mail:
An update of the official LO promo trailer that is a little bit more
"inspiring" the people why using LO has something to do with liberation
and social responsibility in digital age would justify time and money
needed for the update a lot.

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=8wLGesOotrg


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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

For what it is worth:

I would like to see some marketing material which does not even mention
FOSS.

If it must mention file formats then tout support for OOXML and do so writ
large!

Remember that are many of us for whom closed source software is not bad,
that paying for software is not bad and that making a profit is not bad.

Talk to us and tell us why LibreOffice is so good.

Best wishes,

Drew





On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 5:42 AM Nigel Verity <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Roland, Mike
>
>
> That is a very interesting point. Perhaps the challenge is to create a
> promotional video which appeals to both corporates and private individuals
> in equal measure.
>
>
> Liberation and social responsibility should certainly appeal to
> individuals, but any justification for using LO which strays into the
> territory of "politics" may be of less appeal to companies. There will
> surely be decision-makers who have a social conscience but in the main I
> would suggest that a company which selects its business applications based
> on ethics rather than functionality is not doing its job properly. I don't
> necessarily applaud that standpoint but I think it is a fact all the same.
>
>
> In short, I don't think LO should be promoted like those adverts we see
> proclaiming "buy our product because x% of our profits go to charity". LO
> is world-class software that justifies its existence on functionality
> alone. I think the challenge is to get the ethics message across without
> its being seen as a "bolt on" to increase its appeal further.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Nige
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Roland Hummel <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 15 April 2019 21:47
> To: Nigel Verity; Mike Saunders; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] LibreOffice promo trailer?
>
> Hi Nigel and Mike,
>
> On 4/15/19 2:43 PM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> > I've just looked at that video again for the first time in quite a
> while. I have to say there is nothing in it that is not valid today and not
> a lot of information that ought to be added. The only fundamental change is
> the availability of the new user interface features in the mainstream
> rather than as experimental options. Unfortunately to update the video to
> show these would entail almost a total re-recording.
> >
> > There clearly is some scope for a new promotional video but, given that
> just updating the screenshot elements would not alter its overall impact,
> is the cost of a new video justified at this time? What else needs to be
> changed? Change for its own sake is rarely a good proposition.
> >
>
> looking for other LO promo material I found "Trailer Curso LibreOffice
> Ecuador" [1]. I don't understand Spanish language but a friend
> translated the essential parts for me and this video describes how FLOSS
> like LO liberates the IT of countries like Ecuador so as I tried to
> explain in my last mail:
> An update of the official LO promo trailer that is a little bit more
> "inspiring" the people why using LO has something to do with liberation
> and social responsibility in digital age would justify time and money
> needed for the update a lot.
>
> Best regards
> Roland
>
> [1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=8wLGesOotrg
>
>
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> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>
>

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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

In reply to this post by Nigel Verity
On 4/16/19 9:42 AM, Nigel Verity wrote:

> That is a very interesting point. Perhaps the challenge is to create a promotional video which appeals to both corporates and private individuals in equal measure.

Multiple videos, each focussing upon a different target audience:

* BAILS/TSCP, security, and related features: Military and para-military
organizations;
* Linguistic diversity/ease of adding language support: Sspell checking,
grammar checking, UI, documentation: First Nation Language advocates;
* Privacy: Calls home only if you check the appropriate box, and then
only when something goes wrong;
* Crafting Work Product: How the different components work together, to
produce great documents:
# Demonstration of R being used as the macro language for Calc, ideally
using a statistical technique that was only discovered/announced last week;
# The process of writing the great American novel, proof reading,
indexing, creating the front cover, and finally exporting everything as
an ePub uploaded to SmashWords for public distribution as a retail book;

Possibly outside the scope of LibO:
* The why of FLOSS;
* The virtue of open standards;




^1: The big issue is finding a language that pop-culture will recognize,
whose franchise owner won't file a copyright infringement lawsuit.
Which nixes Star Trek, Star Gate, Star Wars, Avatar, Game of Thrones,
and Lord of the Rings.

jonathon

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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

In reply to this post by drew-gmail
Dear Jonathan and Drew,

On 4/17/19 5:28 PM, jonathon wrote:> On 4/16/19 9:42 AM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> Possibly outside the scope of LibO:
> * The why of FLOSS;
> * The virtue of open standards;

"the why of FLOSS" and "The virtue of open standards" is surely better
explained in https://u.fsf.org/user-liberation/ and
https://publiccode.eu but a promo video for LO should be based on a
convincing explanation why LO is a "best practice" of using FLOSS, because:

On 4/17/19 1:53 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:
> For what it is worth:
>
> I would like to see some marketing material which does not even mention
> FOSS.

FLOSS is the only unique feature of LO in comparison of MS Office. All
other ideas both of you mentioned tend to point on *functional*
attributes of LO. An argumentation for LO that only use a functional
perspective will drop its "strongest weapon" in debates whether to go
for LO or MS Office, because MSO which will always be stronger in
functional perspective (more money, more developers, more market power).
I've experienced this in the last debate with decision makers of my
university: "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO
we will have artificial intelligence". The question is not if this is
true or not - the question is, if the "battlefield of functionality" is
the one LO will be able to beat Microsoft, Adobe etc. and its cloud
universes.

The real power of LO comes from being digital freedom instead of being a
"digital north korea" like Adobe and Microsoft - and this should be the
base of any argumentation because it is the only superior starting
position LO has. Starting from software freedom any further
argumentation will convice (at least in societies claiming freedom as
fundamental part of a society):

-because LO is freedom respecting it is secure
-because LO is freedom respecting it is privacy rescpecting
-because LO is freedom respecting it serves the user
-because LO is freedom respecting it is sustainable

In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational
sector and NGOs, not by trying to convince users in a perspective that
is already totally lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality" aka
"but MS Office is so easy to use").

Best regards
Roland



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jonathon-6 jonathon-6
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel wrote:

> "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will have artificial intelligence".

If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018, the
five most important AI programming languages were:
* Python;
* LISP;
* C++;
* Java;
* Prolog;

Two (Three? I'm not sure about C++) are built-in macro languages. LISP
and Prolog are easy enough to add.

There is documentation on installing and using R as a macro language.

Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not
what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are
available, and how to use them.

_TL;DR: Documentation, not implementation._

I'm not sure why being able to grab LinkedIn resumes from within Excel
is a good thing, but that is the type of functionality that Microsoft is
adding. IMNSHO, this type of functionality is best provided by extension
developers.

End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc.

> base of any argumentation because it is the only superior starting position LO has.

For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking
point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed.
As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears.

> Starting from software freedom any further argumentation will convince (at least in societies claiming freedom as fundamental part of a society):
> -because LO is freedom respecting it is secure
> -because LO is freedom respecting it is privacy respecting
> -because LO is freedom respecting it serves the user
> -because LO is freedom respecting it is sustainable

Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until
they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third
parties, by their software vendor.

A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy
related legislation might be useful here.

Whilst such a paper might make LibreOffice Cloud Edition look bad, the
quasi-redeeming feature is that the user can control the cloud that it
is installed on.

> In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational sector and NGOs,

The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go
wrong?"

Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that
doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong.

This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could
sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not
be filable in the first place.

>not by trying to convince users in a perspective that is already totally lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality"

The functionality issue will be over, when you can pick up _LibreOffice
For Managing you Futures Portfolio: Shorts, Straddles, Puts, and
Candlesticks_ at your local Office Depot, or _Asteroid Hunting using
LibreOffice_ at your local _Books a Million_.

(I've only slightly changed the titles of books about Excel, that I've
seen in bookstores.)

>aka "but MS Office is so easy to use").

Familiarity, not ease of use.

jonathon







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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Howdy,

Jonathon's really hit the mark, IMO, with how much of his last email is
phrased.

Roland has a valid and important view also.

I think the best way to address both, with a 'promo' video, is for TDF to
work towards three categories of promo videos:

Work Product focused videos;
ie. LibreOffice.
 1 Encompassing both differentiating features/benefits (longer)
 2 Branding (short)

TDF Community focused videos;
Longer format and cover the what is FOSS & OpenStandards and who is the
community called The Document Foundation

So I think current video covers work product features and is long.
I bet there is one that covers the community focus also and it is long.
I'm figuring anything longer than 30 seconds is long here.

There isn't a short branding video however. Would that be accurate?

Best wishes,

Drew


On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:47 PM jonathon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel wrote:
>
> > "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will have
> artificial intelligence".
>
> If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018, the
> five most important AI programming languages were:
> * Python;
> * LISP;
> * C++;
> * Java;
> * Prolog;
>
> Two (Three? I'm not sure about C++) are built-in macro languages. LISP
> and Prolog are easy enough to add.
>
> There is documentation on installing and using R as a macro language.
>
> Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not
> what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are
> available, and how to use them.
>
> _TL;DR: Documentation, not implementation._
>
> I'm not sure why being able to grab LinkedIn resumes from within Excel
> is a good thing, but that is the type of functionality that Microsoft is
> adding. IMNSHO, this type of functionality is best provided by extension
> developers.
>
> End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc.
>
> > base of any argumentation because it is the only superior starting
> position LO has.
>
> For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking
> point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed.
> As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears.
>
> > Starting from software freedom any further argumentation will convince
> (at least in societies claiming freedom as fundamental part of a society):
> > -because LO is freedom respecting it is secure
> > -because LO is freedom respecting it is privacy respecting
> > -because LO is freedom respecting it serves the user
> > -because LO is freedom respecting it is sustainable
>
> Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until
> they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third
> parties, by their software vendor.
>
> A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy
> related legislation might be useful here.
>
> Whilst such a paper might make LibreOffice Cloud Edition look bad, the
> quasi-redeeming feature is that the user can control the cloud that it
> is installed on.
>
> > In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational
> sector and NGOs,
>
> The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go
> wrong?"
>
> Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that
> doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong.
>
> This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could
> sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not
> be filable in the first place.
>
> >not by trying to convince users in a perspective that is already totally
> lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality"
>
> The functionality issue will be over, when you can pick up _LibreOffice
> For Managing you Futures Portfolio: Shorts, Straddles, Puts, and
> Candlesticks_ at your local Office Depot, or _Asteroid Hunting using
> LibreOffice_ at your local _Books a Million_.
>
> (I've only slightly changed the titles of books about Excel, that I've
> seen in bookstores.)
>
> >aka "but MS Office is so easy to use").
>
> Familiarity, not ease of use.
>
> jonathon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
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>

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Warren Camilleri-2 Warren Camilleri-2
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Hi Drew,

if i understood correctly for example for General Advertisement
(branding/Cheeky ads like Mac vs PC) to "tickle the Interest of users"
these are usually short adverts say 30s or less.
but if we want to tickle the interest of technical persons (presentation
advertisement) then those would be the long. usually 1 minute or more.

if this was the meaning as what is being worked on, where is the current
library located for use? (assuming that i am not the only one looking for
such material for airing)

regards,
Warren.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 17:13, Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Jonathon's really hit the mark, IMO, with how much of his last email is
> phrased.
>
> Roland has a valid and important view also.
>
> I think the best way to address both, with a 'promo' video, is for TDF to
> work towards three categories of promo videos:
>
> Work Product focused videos;
> ie. LibreOffice.
>  1 Encompassing both differentiating features/benefits (longer)
>  2 Branding (short)
>
> TDF Community focused videos;
> Longer format and cover the what is FOSS & OpenStandards and who is the
> community called The Document Foundation
>
> So I think current video covers work product features and is long.
> I bet there is one that covers the community focus also and it is long.
> I'm figuring anything longer than 30 seconds is long here.
>
> There isn't a short branding video however. Would that be accurate?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:47 PM jonathon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel wrote:
> >
> > > "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will
> have
> > artificial intelligence".
> >
> > If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018, the
> > five most important AI programming languages were:
> > * Python;
> > * LISP;
> > * C++;
> > * Java;
> > * Prolog;
> >
> > Two (Three? I'm not sure about C++) are built-in macro languages. LISP
> > and Prolog are easy enough to add.
> >
> > There is documentation on installing and using R as a macro language.
> >
> > Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not
> > what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are
> > available, and how to use them.
> >
> > _TL;DR: Documentation, not implementation._
> >
> > I'm not sure why being able to grab LinkedIn resumes from within Excel
> > is a good thing, but that is the type of functionality that Microsoft is
> > adding. IMNSHO, this type of functionality is best provided by extension
> > developers.
> >
> > End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc.
> >
> > > base of any argumentation because it is the only superior starting
> > position LO has.
> >
> > For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking
> > point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed.
> > As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears.
> >
> > > Starting from software freedom any further argumentation will convince
> > (at least in societies claiming freedom as fundamental part of a
> society):
> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is secure
> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is privacy respecting
> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it serves the user
> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is sustainable
> >
> > Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until
> > they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third
> > parties, by their software vendor.
> >
> > A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy
> > related legislation might be useful here.
> >
> > Whilst such a paper might make LibreOffice Cloud Edition look bad, the
> > quasi-redeeming feature is that the user can control the cloud that it
> > is installed on.
> >
> > > In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational
> > sector and NGOs,
> >
> > The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go
> > wrong?"
> >
> > Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that
> > doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong.
> >
> > This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could
> > sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not
> > be filable in the first place.
> >
> > >not by trying to convince users in a perspective that is already totally
> > lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality"
> >
> > The functionality issue will be over, when you can pick up _LibreOffice
> > For Managing you Futures Portfolio: Shorts, Straddles, Puts, and
> > Candlesticks_ at your local Office Depot, or _Asteroid Hunting using
> > LibreOffice_ at your local _Books a Million_.
> >
> > (I've only slightly changed the titles of books about Excel, that I've
> > seen in bookstores.)
> >
> > >aka "but MS Office is so easy to use").
> >
> > Familiarity, not ease of use.
> >
> > jonathon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
> > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:33 PM Warren Camilleri <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Drew,
>
> Howdy,


> if i understood correctly for example for General Advertisement
> (branding/Cheeky ads like Mac vs PC) to "tickle the Interest of users"
> these are usually short adverts say 30s or less.
> but if we want to tickle the interest of technical persons (presentation
> advertisement) then those would be the long. usually 1 minute or more.
>
> if this was the meaning as what is being worked on, where is the current
> library located for use? (assuming that i am not the only one looking for
> such material for airing)
>
i can point back to the youtube channel which Mike pointed to earliery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIDFFLre08I
and two videos in particular there which capture the differences between
types of videos.

This is Libreoffice (long - features oriented)
https://youtu.be/3KC0ZdcA6s8

LibreOffice Viewer for Android (short - brand/emoting oriented)
https://youtu.be/zIDFFLre08I

There are other items there also as you will see.

Best wishes,

Drew


>
> regards,
> Warren.
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 17:13, Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> Jonathon's really hit the mark, IMO, with how much of his last email is
>> phrased.
>>
>> Roland has a valid and important view also.
>>
>> I think the best way to address both, with a 'promo' video, is for TDF to
>> work towards three categories of promo videos:
>>
>> Work Product focused videos;
>> ie. LibreOffice.
>>  1 Encompassing both differentiating features/benefits (longer)
>>  2 Branding (short)
>>
>> TDF Community focused videos;
>> Longer format and cover the what is FOSS & OpenStandards and who is the
>> community called The Document Foundation
>>
>> So I think current video covers work product features and is long.
>> I bet there is one that covers the community focus also and it is long.
>> I'm figuring anything longer than 30 seconds is long here.
>>
>> There isn't a short branding video however. Would that be accurate?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Drew
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 8:47 PM jonathon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will
>> have
>> > artificial intelligence".
>> >
>> > If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018, the
>> > five most important AI programming languages were:
>> > * Python;
>> > * LISP;
>> > * C++;
>> > * Java;
>> > * Prolog;
>> >
>> > Two (Three? I'm not sure about C++) are built-in macro languages. LISP
>> > and Prolog are easy enough to add.
>> >
>> > There is documentation on installing and using R as a macro language.
>> >
>> > Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not
>> > what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are
>> > available, and how to use them.
>> >
>> > _TL;DR: Documentation, not implementation._
>> >
>> > I'm not sure why being able to grab LinkedIn resumes from within Excel
>> > is a good thing, but that is the type of functionality that Microsoft is
>> > adding. IMNSHO, this type of functionality is best provided by extension
>> > developers.
>> >
>> > End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc.
>> >
>> > > base of any argumentation because it is the only superior starting
>> > position LO has.
>> >
>> > For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking
>> > point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed.
>> > As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears.
>> >
>> > > Starting from software freedom any further argumentation will convince
>> > (at least in societies claiming freedom as fundamental part of a
>> society):
>> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is secure
>> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is privacy respecting
>> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it serves the user
>> > > -because LO is freedom respecting it is sustainable
>> >
>> > Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until
>> > they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third
>> > parties, by their software vendor.
>> >
>> > A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy
>> > related legislation might be useful here.
>> >
>> > Whilst such a paper might make LibreOffice Cloud Edition look bad, the
>> > quasi-redeeming feature is that the user can control the cloud that it
>> > is installed on.
>> >
>> > > In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational
>> > sector and NGOs,
>> >
>> > The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go
>> > wrong?"
>> >
>> > Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that
>> > doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong.
>> >
>> > This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could
>> > sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not
>> > be filable in the first place.
>> >
>> > >not by trying to convince users in a perspective that is already
>> totally
>> > lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality"
>> >
>> > The functionality issue will be over, when you can pick up _LibreOffice
>> > For Managing you Futures Portfolio: Shorts, Straddles, Puts, and
>> > Candlesticks_ at your local Office Depot, or _Asteroid Hunting using
>> > LibreOffice_ at your local _Books a Million_.
>> >
>> > (I've only slightly changed the titles of books about Excel, that I've
>> > seen in bookstores.)
>> >
>> > >aka "but MS Office is so easy to use").
>> >
>> > Familiarity, not ease of use.
>> >
>> > jonathon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> > Problems?
>> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> > Posting guidelines + more:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
>> > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>> >
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
>> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>>
>

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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

Dear Jonathon and Drew,

On 4/18/19 2:46 AM, jonathon wrote:> On 4/17/19 9:11 PM, Roland Hummel
wrote:
>
>> "Yes, LO is nice but it won't beat MS Office because in MSO we will
have artificial intelligence".
>
> If the battlefield is functionality, and AI is important,in 2018 ...

maybe I didn't get your point but what I wanted to underline is that if
LO tries to fight on the "battelfield of funtionality" it will *always*
loose because of less money power, lobby power and marketing power. So
my point is: Choose a battlefield where your opponents can not beat you:
The battlefield of sociality, freedom and openness!

> Which underscores that the big issue in the functionality war, is not
> what is available, but rather, the knowledge that the features are
> available, and how to use them.

I totally agree but in my opinion it would be the worst approach to
advertise a good documentation in the perspective of "funtionality".

In terms of freedom the best documentations are the ones created by the
users who use a "product" (that's why Wikipedia is so successfull: The
knowledge of the people of the world created by the people of the
world). But the idea of community created knowledge should be always
derived from sociality and openness - yes it *can* be a functional
advantage/aspect as well (because knowledge can be maintained without
gatekeepers, an aspect Wikipedia seems to forget from time to time) but
this perspective of functionaly has to be subordinated to avoid the
argument of a company offering a proprietary product saying "our
documentation is very well maintained and we will always keep it up to
date by our professional knowledge base team" (which indeed could be the
case so that this company would win the debate because it can serve a
much better documentation in a functional perspective).

> End users can more easily customize LibO, than MSO, etc.

Sure they can, because LO respects their freedom and because of this
freedom it offers better functionality for developers (not the other way
around).

> For most organizations, ethics is nothing more than a feel-good talking
> point. Something that is neither implemented, nor observed.
> As such, appeals based on ethical principles fall upon deaf ears.

A agree but you seem to reduce freedom to ethics. What I wanted to
underline is that the "battlefield of freedom" offers a superior
position for LO for a very wide audience: Commercial organizations will
get the freedom of indipendence (that's why Google&Co use GNU/Linux for
server farms and not Windows). So "freedom" can mean "commercial
autonomy" as well that's why the argumentation would allow LO to address
any kind of audience by convincing users with a "feature" that no one
else can offer (freedom).

> Neither people nor organizations are concerned about those things, until
> they discover that their data has been passed on to nefarious third
> parties, by their software vendor.

That's why a good promo trailer like the one of publiccode.eu explains
this aspect very well so that organiszations will remember it once they
are affected.

Example: In my last job I tried to convince a private university to use
LimeSurvey as survey tool anstead of QuestionPro. They didn't listen
because QuestionPro offered accounts without paying money for it and
this way the university didn't need to host anything. Now someone told
me that QuestionPro cut the access to all accounts (and the saved
scientific data) from one day to the next (yes, maybe the university
forgot some kind of deadline for the "free accounts") but now the
decision makers understand my argumentation why it is better to go for a
freedom respecting software like LimeSurvey.

> A white paper showing how LibO meets requirements for various privacy
> related legislation might be useful here.

Well, LO can mention this but as long legislation is made my the
companies this is no battlefield Free Software should choose to
convince. Guess why Europe is a software colony of Microsoft: For one
politician in the EU there are 20 lobbyists. Legislation is made by
companies for companies (compare Caspar Bowden: "The Cloud Conspiracy
2008-2014 : how the EU was hypnotised that the NSA did not exist" [1]).

>> In this way LO will convince governments, companies, the educational
sector and NGOs,

>
> The question to be addressed here, is "Who can be sued, if things go
> wrong?"
>
> Whilst Microsoft's _Terms and Conditions_ claim no liability, that
> doesn't prevent support companies from being sued, when things go wrong.
>
> This is where a lawyer is needed, to explain either who could
> sucessfully be sued, if LibO goes wrong, or why such a lawsuit would not
> be filable in the first place.

Well, I hope I got your point: It is very relieving if you can say "sry,
not my department because the service is not hosted by our datacenter"
but consider my QuestionPro/LimeSurvey example above: Does a sue will
provide you access to your data when you need it right now? ;)

>> not by trying to convince users in a perspective that is already
totally lost to the proprietary sector ("functionality"
>
> The functionality issue will be over, when you can pick up _LibreOffice
> For Managing you Futures Portfolio: Shorts, Straddles, Puts, and
> Candlesticks_ at your local Office Depot, or _Asteroid Hunting using
> LibreOffice_ at your local _Books a Million_.
>
> (I've only slightly changed the titles of books about Excel, that I've
> seen in bookstores.)

Yes I agree but you won't break through this vicious circle by attacking
proprietary software choosing a battlefiend you can not win on.

>> aka "but MS Office is so easy to use").
>
> Familiarity, not ease of use.

Okay, "familiarity" as well, but again: This is the case because MS
dominates the market with functional argumentation and this won't stop
until FreeSoftware developers explain the advantages of software freedom.

On 4/18/19 9:54 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:> On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 12:33 PM
Warren Camilleri
> LibreOffice Viewer for Android (short - brand/emoting oriented)
> https://youtu.be/zIDFFLre08I

Wow, this is what I was looking for: Could we have just this for the
desktop version of LO? The idea with the bursting chains is great and
explains the core aspect I try to underline in a smart way!

Best regards
Roland


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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

On 4/19/19 1:19 PM, Roland Hummel wrote:
> Well, LO can mention this but as long legislation is made my the
> companies this is no battlefield Free Software should choose to
> convince. Guess why Europe is a software colony of Microsoft: For one
> politician in the EU there are 20 lobbyists. Legislation is made by
> companies for companies (compare Caspar Bowden: "The Cloud Conspiracy
> 2008-2014 : how the EU was hypnotised that the NSA did not exist" [1]).

Sorry, I forgot to add the link:

[1]
https://media.ccc.de/v/31c3_-_6195_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201412272145_-_the_cloud_conspiracy_2008-2014_-_caspar_bowden


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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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Re: LibreOffice promo trailer?

In reply to this post by Nigel Verity
Hi Nigel,

sorry I forgot to answer you:

On 4/16/19 11:42 AM, Nigel Verity wrote:
> Liberation and social responsibility should certainly appeal to individuals, but any justification for using LO which strays into the territory of "politics" may be of less appeal to companies. There will surely be decision-makers who have a social conscience but in the main I would suggest that a company which selects its business applications based on ethics rather than functionality is not doing its job properly. I don't necessarily applaud that standpoint but I think it is a fact all the same.

See my answer to Jonathon: "A agree but you seem to reduce freedom to
ethics. What I wanted to underline is that the "battlefield of freedom"
offers a superior position for LO for a very wide audience: Commercial
organizations will get the freedom of indipendence (that's why Google&Co
use GNU/Linux for server farms and not Windows). So "freedom" can mean
"commercial autonomy" as well that's why the argumentation would allow
LO to address any kind of audience by convincing users with a "feature"
that no one else can offer (freedom)."

> In short, I don't think LO should be promoted like those adverts we see proclaiming "buy our product because x% of our profits go to charity".

Sure. adverts like this were never an implication of my point of view
because IT-Monopolists will be much better on the "battlefield of
charity" as well (more money and more marketing power to infiltrate this
sector, exmaple: "Charities on Facebook") [1].

> LO is world-class software that justifies its existence on functionality alone. I think the challenge is to get the ethics message across without its being seen as a "bolt on" to increase its appeal further.

Sorry, I disagree. If you don't derive the functionality advantages from
the ethical aspects you will loose any debate, but I think I've written
enough about this perspective.

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://nonprofits.fb.com/en-gb/


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Roland Hummel Roland Hummel
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"LibreOffice Viewer for Android" trailer adaption for dekstop version?

In reply to this post by Roland Hummel
Dear Mike,

chances are goot that my university will promote LibreOffice next to MS
Office and I was asked to provide some video material for the final
decision.

Until know I think "LibreOffice Viewer for Android" [1] would be the
best in terms of length and main message.

Would the The Document Foundation would be able to modify the version
showing a PC/Notebook instead of the Smartphone so that it would fit as
a short trailer to promote the *desktop* version of LibreOffice?

Best regards
Roland

[1] https://invidio.us/watch?v=zIDFFLre08I


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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: "LibreOffice Viewer for Android" trailer adaption for dekstop version?

Hi Roland,

On 26/04/2019 13:15, Roland Hummel wrote:
>
> Until know I think "LibreOffice Viewer for Android" [1] would be the
> best in terms of length and main message.
>
> Would the The Document Foundation would be able to modify the version
> showing a PC/Notebook instead of the Smartphone so that it would fit as
> a short trailer to promote the *desktop* version of LibreOffice?

The video was made by our Taiwanese community -- so I'm including
Franklin Weng in this reply, in case he hasn't seen it! He might have
access to the source files, and can share them with you...

Cheers,
Mike

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