LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

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Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Hello

Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo in
selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech
Republic and 21% in Germany.

http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html
http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)

The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify
the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's
Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat
Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next
compare in future.

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Florian Reisinger-2 Florian Reisinger-2
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RE: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"



> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:55:18 +0100> Subject: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"> From: [hidden email]> To: [hidden email]> > Hello> > Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo in> selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech> Republic and 21% in Germany.> > http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html> http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)> > The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify> the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's> Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat> Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next> compare in future.

That's a ingenious idea!!!
What's about this font: LINK
Kind regards
Florian Reisinger
Linz Austria




     
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Florian Reisinger-2 Florian Reisinger-2
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RE: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"




This is the right link: http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612Kind regards
Florian Reisinger
Linz Austria


>
     
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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Hi Florian, *,

Florian Reisinger schrieb:

>This is the right link:
> http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612Kind regards

I get:
Sign In
http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction

Gruß/regards
--
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images
(german version already started)


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Mateusz Zasuwik Mateusz Zasuwik
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

> >This is the right link:
> > http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612Kind regards
>
> I get:
> Sign In
> http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction
>

Try http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612 ;)

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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Hi Mateusz, *,

Mateusz Zasuwik schrieb:
> Friedrich Strohmaier schrieb:

>> I get:
>> Sign In
>> http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/sign_in/show_fontstruction

>Try http://fontstruct.fontshop.com/fontstructions/show/332612 ;)

works better! Thanks :o))

Gruß/regards
--
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images
(german version already started)



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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik
Hi Mateusz, everyone,

2010/11/19 Mateusz Zasuwik <[hidden email]>

> Hello
>
> Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo in
> selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech
> Republic and 21% in Germany.
>
>
> http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html
>
> http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)
>
> The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify
> the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's
> Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat
> Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next
> compare in future.
>

I'm really against a special LibO font. What the open-source community
should be doing is ensuring that a select few open-source fonts are
available in as many places as possible. Just like documents written with
Times/Arial/Courier fonts are readable basically everywhere, documents with
Bitstream Vera or Liberation fonts should be readable everywhere, too.

If a font is ugly and useless, then it really has no place in LibO.

Even if it was good-looking, all a special LibO font would do is cause
documents written with this font to look wrong on any system without LibO
installed.

LibO should do whatever's best for the user.

Besides, why would LibO need to have separate statistics from OOo? Even if
Oracle's in charge, OOo is still a brother project to LibO, an ally, not an
enemy.

Lastly, fonts aren't a very good indicator of which suites are installed:
open-source fonts are usually freely downloadable and installable (which is
good, because if you have a document in that font, you actually get to see
what it's intended to look like). I myself have installed fonts such as the
Droid fonts, the Chrome OS fonts, the Ubuntu font, etc.

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thehalpennys-libreoffice thehalpennys-libreoffice
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

What if someone decided to generate statistics with another metric, like
identifying what office suites are installed?  Then would you want to change the
install process to make it look different from OO?

Just because FlashCounter found a dumb way to collect statistics doesn't mean
you have to do something dumber.

Dave.




________________________________
From: Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 4:13:22 PM
Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Hi Mateusz, everyone,

2010/11/19 Mateusz Zasuwik <[hidden email]>

> Hello
>
> Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo in
> selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech
> Republic and 21% in Germany.
>
>
>http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html
>l
>
>http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)
>)
>
> The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify
> the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's
> Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat
> Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next
> compare in future.
>

I'm really against a special LibO font. What the open-source community
should be doing is ensuring that a select few open-source fonts are
available in as many places as possible. Just like documents written with
Times/Arial/Courier fonts are readable basically everywhere, documents with
Bitstream Vera or Liberation fonts should be readable everywhere, too.

If a font is ugly and useless, then it really has no place in LibO.

Even if it was good-looking, all a special LibO font would do is cause
documents written with this font to look wrong on any system without LibO
installed.

LibO should do whatever's best for the user.

Besides, why would LibO need to have separate statistics from OOo? Even if
Oracle's in charge, OOo is still a brother project to LibO, an ally, not an
enemy.

Lastly, fonts aren't a very good indicator of which suites are installed:
open-source fonts are usually freely downloadable and installable (which is
good, because if you have a document in that font, you actually get to see
what it's intended to look like). I myself have installed fonts such as the
Droid fonts, the Chrome OS fonts, the Ubuntu font, etc.

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

>
> Just because FlashCounter found a dumb way to collect statistics doesn't
> mean
> you have to do something dumber.
>
> Dave.
>

LOL
but still +1
Beautiful timeless fonts are difficult and to create, you can't just throw
them together like that font building website suggests.

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 10:45 +0930, Michael Wheatland wrote:

> >
> > Just because FlashCounter found a dumb way to collect statistics doesn't
> > mean
> > you have to do something dumber.
> >
> > Dave.
> >
>
> LOL
> but still +1
> Beautiful timeless fonts are difficult and to create, you can't just throw
> them together like that font building website suggests.
>

I think though the original idea was to use the font as a marker (a font
not expected to be widely.,..errr..appreciated ... might actually aid in
that)

- problem I have with that is, although I understand how the ideas comes
about, I'm worried it has 'totally misconstrued' written all over it.
Placing a marker in the binary distro, just as a marker, so we could
setup fly by counting services at some cooperative web sites...think
about that for second and how you know some folks would react...it
wouldn't be pretty.

my .02 worth anyway

Drew


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Harold Fuchs Harold Fuchs
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Mateusz Zasuwik

"Mateusz Zasuwik" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:AANLkTin4f7Ls=f5cf+MT3uL2KOaxtNXb2KO4Exf=[hidden email]...

> Hello
>
> Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity OOo
> in
> selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech
> Republic and 21% in Germany.
>
> http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html
> http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)
>
> The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify
> the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's
> Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat
> Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next
> compare in future.
>

That's a very clever idea but how was it implemented? How do you (or
FlashCounter) decide what fonts are installed on my system? What approval
did I give for that to be done? If I approved it, why didn't I instead
simply say what office suite(s) I had installed? What software looked at my
fonts? Is it still installed on my system? Is it still sending the
information? What other information is it sending? To whom is the data being
sent? To whom are they sending the data? What other uses are being made of
the data? Did I approve those uses? When? How?

--
Harold Fuchs
London, England



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Andrea Pescetti Andrea Pescetti
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Harold Fuchs wrote:
> "Mateusz Zasuwik" <[hidden email]> wrote ...
> > http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html
> > http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)
> >
> > The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and identify
> > the installed Office suites. ...
>
> That's a very clever idea but how was it implemented? How do you (or
> FlashCounter) decide what fonts are installed on my system?

The technical explanation is in the first link above.

> What approval did I give for that to be done?

If you installed Adobe Flash, the answer to this and most of the
remaining questions is in the license you accepted...

Best regards,
  Andrea.


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jonathon-3 jonathon-3
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Harold Fuchs
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 11/20/2010 09:58 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote:
>If I approved it, why didn't I instead simply say what office suite(s) I had installed?

That functionality is normally used for much less benign searches of
your system.

>What software looked at my fonts?

It is part of adobe's program to ensure that your computer is pwned by
third parties without your knowledge, but _with_ your authorization and
consent,.

(and yes, the most common use for that functionality is to pwn systems.)
> To whom is the data being sent? To whom are they sending the data?

The data is sent to whoever asks for it.  They vend that data to whoever
pays the most for that information.

jonathon
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Sonic4Spuds Sonic4Spuds
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Harold Fuchs
On 11/20/2010 03:58 AM, Harold Fuchs wrote:

>
> "Mateusz Zasuwik" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:AANLkTin4f7Ls=f5cf+MT3uL2KOaxtNXb2KO4Exf=[hidden email]...
>> Hello
>>
>> Early this year FlashCounter published a statistic showed popularity
>> OOo in
>> selected countries. We found out that it had 22% in Poland and Czech
>> Republic and 21% in Germany.
>>
>> http://www.webmasterpro.de/portal/news/2010/02/05/international-openoffice-market-shares.html 
>>
>> http://ooblog.pl/2010/02/06/polska-swiatowym-liderem-we-wdrozeniu-openoffice/(polish)
>>
>>
>> The study relies on extricating fonts installed on the system and
>> identify
>> the installed Office suites. For OOo it's OpenSymbol and for MSO it's
>> Calibri. I think LibreOffice should have own unique font (not RedHat
>> Liberation Fonts). It can be ugly and useless but should "be" to next
>> compare in future.
>>
>
> That's a very clever idea but how was it implemented? How do you (or
> FlashCounter) decide what fonts are installed on my system? What
> approval did I give for that to be done? If I approved it, why didn't
> I instead simply say what office suite(s) I had installed? What
> software looked at my fonts? Is it still installed on my system? Is it
> still sending the information? What other information is it sending?
> To whom is the data being sent? To whom are they sending the data?
> What other uses are being made of the data? Did I approve those uses?
> When? How?
>
Harold,

This font would be part of the Loffice installer package, just like any
other feature that would possibly raise security concerns. Perhaps an
install time option to install this and other open fonts?

Also as to how the scanner could find this information, as a amateur web
programmer I know it is an intrinsic part of your web browser to be able
to know what fonts are installed. Any javascript or website can find
this with a simple command. This isn't because of any thing in the
office suite.

-Sonic4Spuds

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Claus Agerskov Claus Agerskov
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by mirek2
Mirek M. skrev:
> 'm really against a special LibO font. What the open-source community
> should be doing is ensuring that a select few open-source fonts are
> available in as many places as possible. Just like documents written with
> Times/Arial/Courier fonts are readable basically everywhere, documents with
> Bitstream Vera or Liberation fonts should be readable everywhere, too.
>  
+1

I would see Verdana as one of the pre-installed fonts aswell.

The most enjoyable greetings

--
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.: Robinievej 129 :: 2620 Albertslund :.
.: AgerCon :: www.agercon.dk :.
.: Konsulentydelser inden for åbne standarder og fri software :.


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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Claus Agerskov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would see Verdana as one of the pre-installed fonts aswell.
-1

Verdana is a proprietary Microsoft font. Let's focus on open source
solutions such as those previously discussed on the Documentation list
including Liberation, Bitstream, Droid, FreeSans, FreeSerif, Goudy
Bookletter 1911, Flaminia, etc.
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Branding-and-Documentation-td1836672.html

The discussion aimed at including ~10-20 quality OPEN source fonts
which are commonly used is quite mature. I suggest you have a look at
the Documentation mailing list for the info.

Personally I would like to see active discouragement of the use of
Times New Roman, Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Calibri, Cambia, etc. as
they are restricted to Microsoft product use only, resulting in
impossible verbatim compatibility.

Thanks for the enthusiasm, even if a bit misdirected IMHO.

Michael Wheatland

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Claus Agerskov Claus Agerskov
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

Michael Wheatland skrev:
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Claus Agerskov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> I would see Verdana as one of the pre-installed fonts aswell.
>>    
> -1
>
> Verdana is a proprietary Microsoft font.
Sorry, didn't knew that.

Then it is also a -1 from me to my own suggestion.

The most enjoyable greetings

--
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.: Robinievej 129 :: 2620 Albertslund :.
.: AgerCon :: www.agercon.dk :.
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Le 2010-11-22 06:30, Michael Wheatland a écrit :

> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Claus Agerskov<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> I would see Verdana as one of the pre-installed fonts aswell.
> -1
>
> Verdana is a proprietary Microsoft font. Let's focus on open source
> solutions such as those previously discussed on the Documentation list
> including Liberation, Bitstream, Droid, FreeSans, FreeSerif, Goudy
> Bookletter 1911, Flaminia, etc.
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-Branding-and-Documentation-td1836672.html
>

Thanks for the redirection.

> The discussion aimed at including ~10-20 quality OPEN source fonts
> which are commonly used is quite mature. I suggest you have a look at
> the Documentation mailing list for the info.
>
> Personally I would like to see active discouragement of the use of
> Times New Roman, Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Calibri, Cambia, etc. as
> they are restricted to Microsoft product use only, resulting in
> impossible verbatim compatibility.
>

Absolutely agreed.

> Thanks for the enthusiasm, even if a bit misdirected IMHO.
>
> Michael Wheatland
>

Marc


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Zaphod Feeblejocks Zaphod Feeblejocks
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
> Personally I would like to see active discouragement of the use of
> Times New Roman, Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Calibri, Cambia, etc. as
> they are restricted to Microsoft product use only, resulting in
> impossible verbatim compatibility.

My concern is this:

Several years ago I started using Garamond on almost everything - long before I knew is
was MS.  I have many old documents that use it.  I have Garamond installed on Ubuntu for
that reason.

I can easily use jGaramond and tell Writer at my end to subsitute Garamond with
jGaramond.

However, if I send a document to a Windows user they probably do not have jGaramond.  If
I have selected jGaramond at my end, it is likely to be rendered as Times New Roman at
the reciever.

An easy way to specify:
1- font to use at my end;
2- preferred replacement font, if (1) is not available would be good.

- kinda like the way I tell my phone to use Meteor when in Ireland, and if that is not
available, to use O2.

If this is already possible, please reply politely to tell me to RTFM and I'll be quiet!

TIA,

z

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: LibreOffice should have own "LibreOfficeFont"

2010/12/6 Zaphod Feeblejocks <[hidden email]>

> > Personally I would like to see active discouragement of the use of
> > Times New Roman, Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Calibri, Cambia, etc. as
> > they are restricted to Microsoft product use only, resulting in
> > impossible verbatim compatibility.
>
> My concern is this:
>
> Several years ago I started using Garamond on almost everything - long
> before I knew is
> was MS.  I have many old documents that use it.  I have Garamond installed
> on Ubuntu for
> that reason.
>
> I can easily use jGaramond and tell Writer at my end to subsitute Garamond
> with
> jGaramond.
>
> However, if I send a document to a Windows user they probably do not have
> jGaramond.  If
> I have selected jGaramond at my end, it is likely to be rendered as Times
> New Roman at
> the reciever.
>
> An easy way to specify:
> 1- font to use at my end;
> 2- preferred replacement font, if (1) is not available would be good.
>

The problem with this is that
a) you can never know what fonts the reader will have installed (e.g. if you
used Calibri and the replacement font is Arial, Linux users won't get either
font)
b) you will have to make sure your document looks good with both original
and replaced fonts

I think a better solution would be to:
a) offer to download and install missing open-source fonts (using
open-source fonts would be an advantage here): quick mockup at
http://clickortap.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/citrus-question.png
b) replace fonts with fonts the same typeface (serif, sans-serif, mono) and
as similar metrics as possible (this might already be the current way of
doing things)

Also, if the user options to do so, instead of installing fonts on the
machine, how about just automatically pulling them off the internet, and
when the user is done with the document, simply deleting them?
This would make it effortless to view a document with various open-source
fonts that you don't have installed on your system.

- kinda like the way I tell my phone to use Meteor when in Ireland, and if

> that is not
> available, to use O2.
>
> If this is already possible, please reply politely to tell me to RTFM and
> I'll be quiet!
>
> TIA,
>
> z
>
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