LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

David Nelson and myself are organising the inaugural LibreOffice website
team conference call.

To vote on the time please visit: http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din
To contribute to the agenda please visit:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/ConfCall/Agenda

In the call we expect to discuss website team leadership, nomination of team
leaders, coordination of tasks and the way forward for the website team and
the developments we are responsible for.

We expect that this call we will clarify the official position of the Drupal
development, which will allow more honest discussions about
future architecture and temporary measures to address the technical
constraints that we will encounter soon while using Silverstripe as the
infrastructure.

I encourage all of those involved with the website team to vote and attend
the meeting.
It is time we stood up, took ownership of the tools we are responsible for
and elected our own leaders who represent the website team as a whole.

Michael Wheatland

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Mike Houben Mike Houben
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Realy good idea :)

Even if i didn't replied on other mails, but i'm following the discussion here. I think it's the best way to clarify in which direction we will put all our effort. 1 single Roadmap and not several (Silvestripe/Drupal).

What do you understand under "teams"? Content, Translation, Design, Technical ?

I would like to propose myself for Programming(Html/CSS) and UX(Design).

My Ideas to the ConfCal:

- I like to change to Drupal
        - Better Plugin accesibility
        - Easy integration with "Vanilla-Forums"

- Official Forums for Libreoffice on the Main Domain
        - Vanilla Easy Integration into other system (Even Single Login)

- Some other ideas included in my little idea on the UX for Libreoffice. Which includes every part of LibreOffice

Mike


Am 19.01.2011 um 10:42 schrieb Michael Wheatland:

> David Nelson and myself are organising the inaugural LibreOffice website
> team conference call.
>
> To vote on the time please visit: http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din
> To contribute to the agenda please visit:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/ConfCall/Agenda
>
> In the call we expect to discuss website team leadership, nomination of team
> leaders, coordination of tasks and the way forward for the website team and
> the developments we are responsible for.
>
> We expect that this call we will clarify the official position of the Drupal
> development, which will allow more honest discussions about
> future architecture and temporary measures to address the technical
> constraints that we will encounter soon while using Silverstripe as the
> infrastructure.
>
> I encourage all of those involved with the website team to vote and attend
> the meeting.
> It is time we stood up, took ownership of the tools we are responsible for
> and elected our own leaders who represent the website team as a whole.
>
> Michael Wheatland
>
> --
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/
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Charles Marcus Charles Marcus
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
On 2011-01-19 4:42 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote:
> I encourage all of those involved with the website team to vote and attend
> the meeting.
> It is time we stood up, took ownership of the tools we are responsible for
> and elected our own leaders who represent the website team as a whole.

Just to be clear... this is not open to simple interested parties/LibO
users, correct? If so I'm ok with it, just confirming...

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Best regards,

Charles

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Mike Houben
Hi, :-)

It's going to be an interesting and lively confcall (we plan to have
them *very* regularly) in which we are going to reconcile all the
website team's ideas and desires with the policies and realities of
the other areas of the project. It might not always be easy but, with
patience and compromise, I am certain that we'll manage to find a path
forward that best serves the interests of the LibreOffice project and
community, and that has lots of scope for innovation.

We're supposed to be an open community, so it's open to those who want
to contribute real, active work to the libreoffice.org website, as
part of an inclusive, viable and creative website team.

David Nelson

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Charles Marcus
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> On 2011-01-19 4:42 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote:
> > I encourage all of those involved with the website team to vote and
> attend
> > the meeting.
> > It is time we stood up, took ownership of the tools we are responsible
> for
> > and elected our own leaders who represent the website team as a whole.
>
> Just to be clear... this is not open to simple interested parties/LibO
> users, correct? If so I'm ok with it, just confirming...
>

The Conference call is open to all people who are interested in active
participation to the website team.
This conference call, being the inaugural one, will likely cover a whole
range of topics but mostly internal to the website team.

I am sure there will be no decisions made that impact the wider community
without consultation after this inaugural conference call, but interested
parties are always welcome to attend, even if to just listen in.
The conversations I have had with David Nelson lean more towards discussing
website coordination and leadership, as well as clarifying the roles,
responsibilities and infrastructure that the team is responsible for.

Might I suggest we try to keep the agenda pretty light on, this way we can
get the structure and coordination of the team right before diving into
development again.
Please, if you feel you can sustain a contribution to the website team, or
maybe can give advice on the website team structure and nominations for
leadership roles, please attend.

Thanks,
Michael Wheatland

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Gukk_Devel Gukk_Devel
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Michael Wheatland schrieb:

> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Charles Marcus
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>  
>> On 2011-01-19 4:42 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote:
>>    
>>> I encourage all of those involved with the website team to vote and
>>>      
>> attend
>>    
>>> the meeting.
>>> It is time we stood up, took ownership of the tools we are responsible
>>>      
>> for
>>    
>>> and elected our own leaders who represent the website team as a whole.
>>>      
>> Just to be clear... this is not open to simple interested parties/LibO
>> users, correct? If so I'm ok with it, just confirming...
>>
>>    
>
> The Conference call is open to all people who are interested in active
> participation to the website team.
> This conference call, being the inaugural one, will likely cover a whole
> range of topics but mostly internal to the website team.
>
> I am sure there will be no decisions made that impact the wider community
> without consultation after this inaugural conference call, but interested
> parties are always welcome to attend, even if to just listen in.
> The conversations I have had with David Nelson lean more towards discussing
> website coordination and leadership, as well as clarifying the roles,
> responsibilities and infrastructure that the team is responsible for.
>
> Might I suggest we try to keep the agenda pretty light on, this way we can
> get the structure and coordination of the team right before diving into
> development again.
> Please, if you feel you can sustain a contribution to the website team, or
> maybe can give advice on the website team structure and nominations for
> leadership roles, please attend.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Wheatland
>
>  
Did you ask the SC if they are interested in such a discussion, or if
they ever would agree to an outcome different from their last statement?

otherwise you do work again for nothing.

just my 2 cent
Karl-Heinz

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Hi, :-)

Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.

David Nelson

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Gukk_Devel Gukk_Devel
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Hi David,  ;-)

David Nelson schrieb:
> Hi, :-)
>
> Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
> roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
> SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.
>
> David Nelson
>
>  
I didn't think about communication failures but about attitudes/mindsets.

Karl-Heinz

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Karl-Heinz Gödderz <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David,  ;-)
>
> David Nelson schrieb:
> > Hi, :-)
> >
> > Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
> > roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
> > SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.
> >
> > David Nelson
> >
> >
> I didn't think about communication failures but about attitudes/mindsets.


LibreOffice is an open community. We are personally inviting all of those
people who have already contributed to the website team and infrastructure.
The reason LibreOffice exists is to encourage grass roots development and
community building, rather than having to seek permission from a higher
power, ie Oracle.
LibreOffice is about meritocracy, structurally organising the team and
coordination clearly has merit for the whole community.

The reason we are organising this is to improve the leadership, development,
coordination and communication within the website team.
There have been some mistakes made over the past few months, David as a
"Leader" appointed by the SC and myself are working together to unite the
website team, enable discussion and decisions rather than dictate, and map
out the roadmap for the LibreOffice website in an official capacity as the
team responsible for the web infrastructure.

Any members of the SC who wish to actively contribute to the website team
are more than welcome to join the conference call and as a team we must
negotiate the best outcome for the community.
I have faith that members of the SC have respect for the website team enough
to respect and uphold decisions made by the team and the community.
The only attitude and mindset we need to think about is respectful
collaboration.

I hope this clarifies things,
Michael Wheatland

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Narayan Aras Narayan Aras
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RE: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call


Would it be possible to record the call and post a MP3  (with the MoMs) so the absentees can listen in later?

Thanks!


> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 23:07:02 +0930
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-website] LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Karl-Heinz Gödderz <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi David,  ;-)
> >
> > David Nelson schrieb:
> > > Hi, :-)
> > >
> > > Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
> > > roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
> > > SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.
> > >
> > > David Nelson
> > >
> > >
> > I didn't think about communication failures but about attitudes/mindsets.
>
>
> LibreOffice is an open community. We are personally inviting all of those
> people who have already contributed to the website team and infrastructure.
> The reason LibreOffice exists is to encourage grass roots development and
> community building, rather than having to seek permission from a higher
> power, ie Oracle.
> LibreOffice is about meritocracy, structurally organising the team and
> coordination clearly has merit for the whole community.
>
> The reason we are organising this is to improve the leadership, development,
> coordination and communication within the website team.
> There have been some mistakes made over the past few months, David as a
> "Leader" appointed by the SC and myself are working together to unite the
> website team, enable discussion and decisions rather than dictate, and map
> out the roadmap for the LibreOffice website in an official capacity as the
> team responsible for the web infrastructure.
>
> Any members of the SC who wish to actively contribute to the website team
> are more than welcome to join the conference call and as a team we must
> negotiate the best outcome for the community.
> I have faith that members of the SC have respect for the website team enough
> to respect and uphold decisions made by the team and the community.
> The only attitude and mindset we need to think about is respectful
> collaboration.
>
> I hope this clarifies things,
> Michael Wheatland
>
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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Narayan Aras <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> Would it be possible to record the call and post a MP3  (with the MoMs) so
> the absentees can listen in later?
>
> Thanks!
>
> We will be organising the use of the current conference call technology. As
I understand it the audio can be downloaded and posted to the wiki as occurs
with the Marketing and Documentation conference calls.
Maybe David can shed some light on how this is done.

Thanks

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

Hi, :-)

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 22:22, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Narayan Aras <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>> Would it be possible to record the call and post a MP3  (with the MoMs) so
>> the absentees can listen in later?
>>
> We will be organising the use of the current conference call technology. As
> I understand it the audio can be downloaded and posted to the wiki as occurs
> with the Marketing and Documentation conference calls.
> Maybe David can shed some light on how this is done.

Hopefully, we'll be using Talkyoo. In that case, the call will be
recorded, and Florian will afterwards put the recorded mp3 on the
wiki. Then we'll set up a minutes page on the website team's portion
of the wiki and post a link to it there, so that people can download
it.

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Gukk_Devel
Hi, :-)

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 21:20, Karl-Heinz Gödderz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> David Nelson schrieb:
>> Micheal and I (or whoever else is appointed to leadership/coordination
>> roles) will certainly liaise closely and regularly with the SC during
>> SC confcalls, so that there are *no* communications failures.
>>
> I didn't think about communication failures but about attitudes/mindsets.

Well, there is going to be a challenging process of arbitration and
mindset education between the website team and the SC, and I'm under
no illusion that we'll succeed in consensus between everyone.

We are going to going to have to establish exactly where the role of
the website team really starts and ends.

It's going to be important to remember that the website team is there
to service the LibreOffice project's website needs, and that it is not
there to become a separate community by itself, nor to take on the
roles of other areas of the project such as marketing and SC/BoD
policy-making.

People who want to influence those areas of the project are going to
have to actively involve themselves in those particular teams.

But I think the website team can also learn to communicate more
successfully and to raise awareness about the opportunities for
community cultivation and building that can be offered by an
innovative Web presence.

And we would have to be able to tangibly demonstrate those
opportunities, which is might require a certain amount of work done on
a purely-prospective basis, with no guarantee of actual uptake.

Meritocracy and overall consensus will have to be respected. Patience
and a degree of far-sightedness will be necessary, as will the ability
to accept compromise.

Adhesion to the LibreOffice project's overall goals is needed from
every member if we are to be part of a peaceful, successful community.

But I do believe that we can arrive at solutions that take account of
reasonable wishes and ambitions.

All the above is my personal 2 cents.

We'll have plenty to talk about.

David Nelson

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Ivan M. Ivan M.
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi Michael, David, all,

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> David Nelson and myself are organising the inaugural LibreOffice website
> team conference call.
>
> To vote on the time please visit: http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

Is this the same meeting as the one we already created a Doodle poll
for at [1], or is it something different altogether (in which case, is
the other meeting off?)

> In the call we expect to discuss website team leadership, nomination of team
> leaders, coordination of tasks and the way forward for the website team and
> the developments we are responsible for.

Hasn't the nomination of team leaders already been done by the SC? I
was hoping we could finally move forward, but another round of
nominations and discussions is going to delay things further (that
said, I think confcalls are good opportunities to make progress as
long as suitable provisions are made for those who can't attend).

If the SC is OK with this, no problem. However, the last thing I want
is for us to first delay by revisiting previous decisions only to have
them invalidated by the SC which will cause further delays. I'm not
against short term delays for long term gains if this is an
opportunity to move forward (which I hope it is) now that the new
website theme and initial content are up and running, but I also want
to make sure that we won't be wasting time.

Regards,
Ivan.

[1] http://www.doodle.com/py7e7fku8p5v9v92

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Ivan M. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Michael, David, all,
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Michael Wheatland
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > David Nelson and myself are organising the inaugural LibreOffice website
> > team conference call.
> >
> > To vote on the time please visit: http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din
>
> Is this the same meeting as the one we already created a Doodle poll
> for at [1], or is it something different altogether (in which case, is
> the other meeting off?)
>
> > In the call we expect to discuss website team leadership, nomination of
> team
> > leaders, coordination of tasks and the way forward for the website team
> and
> > the developments we are responsible for.
>
> Hasn't the nomination of team leaders already been done by the SC? I
> was hoping we could finally move forward, but another round of
> nominations and discussions is going to delay things further (that
> said, I think confcalls are good opportunities to make progress as
> long as suitable provisions are made for those who can't attend).
>
> If the SC is OK with this, no problem. However, the last thing I want
> is for us to first delay by revisiting previous decisions only to have
> them invalidated by the SC which will cause further delays. I'm not
> against short term delays for long term gains if this is an
> opportunity to move forward (which I hope it is) now that the new
> website theme and initial content are up and running, but I also want
> to make sure that we won't be wasting time.
>
>
We will not be wasting time. The website team as a whole has
been segregated by the communication faults that have occurred.
David and myself agree that the best way forward is for the website team to
stand up together as a grass roots united community team. Demonstrate that
we have the skills required to build the website into a community tool and
build trust with the whole community that we listen to everyone.

One aspect that this entails is definition of scope and setting up teams to
manage these resources. There has been unhappiness at the designation of
leaders by the SC without any consultation with the team involved. David and
I have discussed this at length and we see, as I hope others see, that we
need more scope and definition about our responsibilities. This is not to
disregard the SC statement about the leaders, but the first action of these
SC assigned leaders was to unify the team, get consensus amongst the team
regarding sub-projects and better define the people coordinating these
groups.

The SC is precisely that, a steering body, it is the community which finally
decides where this project ends up by way of positive contribution,
collaboration and communication.

We will not be wasting time, we will be (hopefully) uniting the great
talents that we have at our disposal, generating trust and defining the
roadmap for the website team instead of the chaos theory coordination that
has occurred thus far. I can't see any circumstances where this does not
strongly benefit our team and the community as a whole.

Thanks for your concern, and it is this exact reason that we need this
conference call, to clarify all of these issues and to take responsibility
for the website team's resources.

Michael Wheatland

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Wheatbix Wheatbix
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

There seems to be a consensus for the conference call.
Is everybody happy if I close the poll and we select Friday 21 January @ 5pm
GMT?

Of the people who have expressed interest in coming along only Narayan is
not able to make it at that time. I already have some notes from him
regarding discussions he wishes to initiate.

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi, :-)

@Ivan: I suggest you sign-up for this one, Ivan:
http://doodle.com/wzy78i52av4h6din

@Michael: Zennnnnnnnnnn.......

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:14, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> David and myself agree that the best way forward is for the website team to
> stand up together as a grass roots united community team.

I think it would be good to tone down our language quite a bit. ;-)
I am for seeking consensus and looking for a way to address everyone's
reasonable desires and concerns.
However, I do fully support the goals and policies of the SC, and I am
not for any kind of disruptive situation within the project.
I want to see some good communication between us all, to see what
*positive* ways forward we can find, which must then be submitted to
the SC for discussion and approval/disapproval.

> One aspect that this entails is definition of scope and setting up teams to
> manage these resources. There has been unhappiness at the designation of
> leaders by the SC without any consultation with the team involved. David and
> I have discussed this at length and we see, as I hope others see, that we
> need more scope and definition about our responsibilities.

I think it will be good if we all discuss solutions that will achieve
consensus among the greatest number. But, for me, those solutions have
to tie-in with the overall goals and policies of the LibreOffice
project, which is currently represented by the SC (and will, at a
future date, be personified by the BoD and other institutions covered
in the community bylaws).

My experience has shown me that the SC members are quite open to
proposals, as long as those proposals are considered beneficial to the
project as a whole. It is up to us to be convincing and constructive
in our communication - not conflictual and emotional. If we approach
things in the right way, then I think we would stand an excellent
chance of getting some worthwhile and interesting ideas approved.

But let's everyone of us tone down the language a lot. We will
ultimately achieve much more that way.

And when we hold the confcall, I *implore* you *all* to desist from
recriminations and blame and, instead, to focus on solutions for the
future that will gain the satisfaction and commitment of the greatest
number.

My 2 cents. ;-)

David Nelson

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davidnelson davidnelson
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi, :-)

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:28, Michael Wheatland
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> There seems to be a consensus for the conference call.
> Is everybody happy if I close the poll and we select Friday 21 January @ 5pm
> GMT?

Seems OK to me.

David Nelson

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by davidnelson
Am Donnerstag, den 20.01.2011, 13:03 +0800 schrieb David Nelson:
> And when we hold the confcall, I *implore* you *all* to desist from
> recriminations and blame and, instead, to focus on solutions for the
> future that will gain the satisfaction and commitment of the greatest
> number.

++1

> My 2 cents. ;-)

Look rather like 2 EUR (or any other currency you want to put in here)

;-)

Cheers,
Christoph


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Re: LibreOffice website team inaugural conference call

In reply to this post by Wheatbix
Hi Michael, Ivan, all!

I'd like to comment, here, since I don't like the term "leaders" in the
website case. Well, there had been an official request to the SC for
dedicated editing rights to ensure stability and harmonization (and some
more ideas) of the website.

The SC came to the conclusion that it'll be helpful to look at different
aspects as well - and to ensure collaboration among the community to
provide different (I call them) contact persons instead of having all
the load on one pair of shoulders, only. So, for a trial period of two
months, a preceding proposal on the steering discuss list, had been
confirmed.

My fault seemed to be, that I underestimated the perceived importance of
this decision - I'm sorry for that (time was always fed up, grrr). My
aim was to draft some wiki pages (with that team), so that others know
where to start, how to cooperate, how to provide feedback (by the way,
the latter page exists since some days). And I'd like to help with the
the UX of the page, and usually I do this by commenting whether
proposals might work well. But leaders, well, this might sound a bit
bold :-)

The SC meeting minutes state "This team should act as some kind of
catalyst, guiding people by giving advice instead of taking control, so
that people are encouraged to join the website team."

If some of you missed the SC conference call recording [1], here it is.
Website topics start 23:10 mins, the discussion on how we'll understand
the team's work is at 33:50. At the end - it is about to provide a good
working, looking and helpful website.

Maybe this is one of the misunderstandings we've (all) run into - so
maybe it helps to clarify the situation a bit.

Well, I'm looking forward to the call (time seems good for me)!

Enjoy your day!

Christoph


[1]
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Talkyoo-537138-2011-01-13-1292638.mp3

[2]
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2011-01-13



Am Donnerstag, den 20.01.2011, 13:44 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland:

> One aspect that this entails is definition of scope and setting up
> teams to
> manage these resources. There has been unhappiness at the designation
> of
> leaders by the SC without any consultation with the team involved.
> David and
> I have discussed this at length and we see, as I hope others see, that
> we
> need more scope and definition about our responsibilities. This is not
> to
> disregard the SC statement about the leaders, but the first action of
> these
> SC assigned leaders was to unify the team, get consensus amongst the
> team
> regarding sub-projects and better define the people coordinating these
> groups.


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