[Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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[Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

Hi all,

Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)

Per our last meeting, I talked with the ESC about abbreviations:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/December_02#PENDING_ITEM:_Bugzilla_Migration_etc.

The ESC gave a few more suggestions, and said that the people doing
the work should choose -- so I figured I would email out to all of our
marvelous QA contributors and ask them to weigh-in!

For the next couple of days, please provide comments on the proposed
names. I suggest that you provide simple, direct reasons in favor of
(or against) particular names.

If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo
* lbz
* libo
* lo
* lob
* lobz
* tdf

Cheers,
--R
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Florian Reisinger Florian Reisinger
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

Hi,

> Am 21.11.2013 um 19:52 schrieb Robinson Tryon <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
>
> Per our last meeting, I talked with the ESC about abbreviations:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/December_02#PENDING_ITEM:_Bugzilla_Migration_etc.
>
> The ESC gave a few more suggestions, and said that the people doing
> the work should choose -- so I figured I would email out to all of our
> marvelous QA contributors and ask them to weigh-in!
>
> For the next couple of days, please provide comments on the proposed
> names. I suggest that you provide simple, direct reasons in favor of
> (or against) particular names.
>
> If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

VOTED

>
> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo

Adapts the current name shema..

> * lbz

Difficult to speak out as a word

> * libo

I guess, that this is my favorite

> * lo

I dislike that

> * lob

Would use this instead

> * lobz

Difficult to spell

> * tdf

LibreOffice != TDF, that, why I dislike that

>
> Cheers,
> --R

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger
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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> * blo

This one blows

> * lbz

Ok

> * libo

Ok

> * lo

Good. Easy to pronounce.

> * lob

Good. Easiest to pronounce.

> * lobz

Ok. Amusing to pronounce.

> * tdf

Libreoffice/TDF are different.


Cheers,
--R
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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
Le 21/11/2013 19:52, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
> Hi all,
> [...]
>
> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo
why not but not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea,
risk of error with 0

> * lbz
OK

> * libo
No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

> * lo
No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

> * lob
Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
with 0

> * lobz
Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
with 0

> * tdf
No, tdf =/= LibreOffice

Best regards.
JBF

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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
Vote:

> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo -- NO
> * lbz -- YES, but only as alternative to tdf
> * libo -- NO
> * lo -- NO
> * lob -- NO
> * lobz -- NO
> * tdf -- YES, of course LibreOffice is not The Document Foundation, but TDF is LibreOffice's home
                   and the Foundations objective "to nurture and develop office software that is free to use by everyone"
                   would be well represented by an association to a tdf#12345  Bugzilla tracker.  The freedesktop.org--fdo--
                   infrastructure support has served us well, and a tdf# notation for our own infrastructure would  be correct.

Stuart

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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:59 PM, V Stuart Foote <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> * tdf -- YES, of course LibreOffice is not The Document Foundation, but TDF is LibreOffice's home
>                    and the Foundations objective "to nurture and develop office software that is free to use by everyone"
>                    would be well represented by an association to a tdf#12345  Bugzilla tracker.  The freedesktop.org--fdo--
>                    infrastructure support has served us well, and a tdf# notation for our own infrastructure would  be correct.
>

If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org

Thoughts??

--R
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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:02:02PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
> If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org

A big part of this exercise is to not have LibreOffice bug mixed with others
anymore. As such documentfoundation just seems wrong to me as tdf might have
other projects and if those use our bugzilla they will be guests on the
LibreOffice bugzilla because of the volume. We already essentially took over
fdo by volume, so lets keep this one dedicated to LO and LO only.

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:02:32PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> > * libo
> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself
>
> > * lo
> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

It will never be used standalone and lo#12345 isnt going to be confused.

> > * lob
> Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
> with 0
>
> > * lobz
> Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of error
> with 0

see above, no such issue as there is lo# as with all bug refs.

Best,

Bjoern
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V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robinson Tryon [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:02 PM
>
> If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org
>
> Thoughts??

Well it would have the advantage of neutral Bugzilla support for any other TDF projects and infrastructure resources--e.g.  Tinderbox, Mail lists, Ask, WWW, wiki, Twitter, etc.


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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Bjoern Michaelsen
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 6:38 PM, bjoern <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:02:02PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
>> If we go that route, we should use the url bugs.documentfoundation.org
>
> A big part of this exercise is to not have LibreOffice bug mixed with others
> anymore. As such documentfoundation just seems wrong to me as tdf might have
> other projects and if those use our bugzilla they will be guests on the
> LibreOffice bugzilla because of the volume. We already essentially took over
> fdo by volume, so lets keep this one dedicated to LO and LO only.

Post-migration, candidates to be 'products' in the bugtracker include:
- LibreOffice application
- Android/iOS remote
- BSA
- Anything web-related for libreoffice
- Anything web-related for TDF

On the one hand, that list includes things that aren't strictly the
LibreOffice application. On the other hand, pretty much everything
else on that list
1) exists to support the LibreOffice application
2) is dwarfed by the bugtracking needs of the LibreOffice application

I see arguments from both sides, but I feel like the 800-lb
application on the list wins out.

The nice thing with putting everything under a "LibreOffice"
bugtracker for now is that if in the future we do decide to migrate
bugtracking for TDF-specific web infra to a separate instance, that's
going to be a much smaller and simpler piece.

Cheers,
--R
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Jean-Baptiste Faure Jean-Baptiste Faure
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Bjoern Michaelsen
Hi,

Le 22/11/2013 00:38, bjoern a écrit :
> [...]
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:02:32PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
>>> * libo
>> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself
>>
>>> * lo
>> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself
>
> It will never be used standalone and lo#12345 isnt going to be confused.

My fear was, if we use lo#12345 or libo#12345, that when somebody tell
"lo" or "libo" we don't know if he speaks about the software or its
bugtracker. If we use the abbreviation lbz#12345 there is no ambiguity.

Best regards.
JBF

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Thomas Hackert Thomas Hackert
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Faure
Hello Jean-Baptiste, *,
On Donnerstag, 21. November 2013 22:02 Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:
> Le 21/11/2013 19:52, Robinson Tryon a écrit :
>> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
>> * blo
> why not but not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good
> idea, risk of error with 0

I would prefer "blo", as it is the short form for
bugs.libreoffice.org ... ;) Maybe we could use "b.l.o" to circumvent
the phonetical similarity to the English word "blow" ... ;)

>> * lbz
> OK

To me, it sounds like a a name of a GNU/Linux package, -1

>> * libo
> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

+1

>> * lo
> No, it is a common abbreviation for the software itself

+1

>> * lob
> Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of
> error with 0

-1. The word "Lob" in German means something like "kudos" or
"praise. And there is a term in tennis, which is called "lob" as
well ... :(

>> * lobz
> Not sure if having a o in the abbreviation is a good idea, risk of
> error with 0

0 ... I have not a clear opinion here, sorry ... :(

>> * tdf
> No, tdf =/= LibreOffice

Yes, I think tdf is not that ideal. If TDF may take other projects
under its wings, then it could lead to some kind of confusion ...
HTH
Thomas.

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Rob Snelders-3 Rob Snelders-3
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
Hi,

My opinion:

> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo
no. The relation with the english word 'blow' is to big.

> * lbz
Fine by me

> * libo
> * lo
no. I don't think that a abbrivation of the product is going to work

> * lob
> * lobz
Fine by me

> * tdf
Here is the discussion about if we need to have
bugs.documentfoundation.org. I don't think you want that because tdf can
have other products. Only if you want this bugzilla only for libo then
where will the bugs for the websites of tdf go? Will they stay at
freedesktop or go to the libo-bugzilla? As you follow this rule they
should go to somewhere else as the libo-bugzilla.

Greetings,
Rob Snelders

>
> Cheers,
> --R
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Bjoern Michaelsen Bjoern Michaelsen
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 06:51:55PM -0500, Robinson Tryon wrote:
> The nice thing with putting everything under a "LibreOffice"
> bugtracker for now is that if in the future we do decide to migrate
> bugtracking for TDF-specific web infra to a separate instance, that's
> going to be a much smaller and simpler piece.

This was what I was thinking of, yep.

Best,

Bjoern
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Robinson Tryon Robinson Tryon
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

For the time being, let's assume that we're going to migrate all bugs
over to bugs.libreoffice.org and then (later) consider splitting-off
non-LibreOffice bugs into a separate tracker. With that in mind, I
suggest that we keep "tdf#" reserved for TDF-bugtracker use.

In terms of the other names, the votes are all over the map. What I
can say is that 'blo' and 'lo' are disliked more than they are liked,
and 'lobz' doesn't have any strong points. 'lbz' has the strongest
support, although thackert says it sounds like a GNU/Linux package ;-)

Anyone else want to weigh-in here? (I'm expecting to hear from some
more of the usual suspects...you know who you are! :-)

Thanks,
--R
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m.a.riosv m.a.riosv
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

+1 lobz, I think no confusions.

Miguel Ángel.
Tommy Tommy
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 19:52:27 +0100, Robinson Tryon  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
>
> ...
>
> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo
please, avoid. I don't wanna be exposed to unpolite jokes about "QA is  
doing blo job"

> * lbz
no. phonetically unfriendly.

> * libo
no. abbreviation is already used to describe the software

> * lo
no. it makes me think about J-Lo :-)

> * lob
yes. easy to understand even for newbies: LOB#1234 = LibreOfficeBug#1234

> * lobz
yes. same as before: LOBZ#1234 = LibreOfficeBugZilla#1234

> * tdf
no. tdf is another thing.

....

so basically my first pick is "lob" and my second pick is "lobz"

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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
> ...
> If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.

Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P

Voting Rules:
* Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
* Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
* If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off

> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
> * blo
> * lbz
> * libo
> * lo
> * lob
> * lobz

Thanks,
--R
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

Robinson Tryon <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 12:31 PM

>Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P
>
>Voting Rules:
>* Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
>* Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
>* If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off

>> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
* blo -- No
* lbz -- Yes
* libo -- No
* lo -- No
* lob -- No
* lobz  -- Yes

Stuart
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Thomas Hackert Thomas Hackert
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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
Hello Robinson, *,
On Sonntag, 1. Dezember 2013 19:31 Robinson Tryon wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
[new abbreviation for bugs.libreoffice.org]
> Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P
>
> Voting Rules:
> * Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like
> (Approval Voting) * Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for
> future use * If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off
>
>> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
>> * blo

+1

Have a nice evening
Thomas.

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Re: Bugzilla Migration: Abbreviation to replace fdo#12345

In reply to this post by Robinson Tryon
Hi,

I am voting for "libo" only ;)

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger

> Am 01.12.2013 um 19:31 schrieb Robinson Tryon <[hidden email]>:
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Robinson Tryon
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Let's pick a new abbreviation to use for our bugtracker :-)
>> ...
>> If there's no obvious winner after a few days, we can take a vote.
>
> Well...looks like it's time to take a vote :P
>
> Voting Rules:
> * Please vote for as many of the listed choices as you like (Approval Voting)
> * Per our discussion, I'm reserving 'tdf' for future use
> * If there's no clear winner, we can have a run-off
>
>> Here's the list (in alphabetical order):
>> * blo
>> * lbz
>> * libo
>> * lo
>> * lob
>> * lobz
>
> Thanks,
> --R
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