+ Stephan, Sophie, Caolan, Heiko, Kendy, JanI, Thorsten
Markus, Miklos, Olivier, Michael M, Eike, Christian,
Michael S, Bjoern, Bubli, Norbert
* Completed Action Items:
+ add GDI object use count to crash reporter (Michael)
+ turn gcc -Og on for a bit and see how it goes (Michael S)
[ turned on; a few complaints – but no show-stopping concerns yet.
It can happen that variables are not displayed; and optimized out,
mostly it happens for non-live variables.
Can see in frame 17 – some var optimized out, frame 18 can be seen there.
+ very hard to see boolean variables optimized out (Markus)
+ don't care wrt. a enable-debug build, but a dbgutil build should be the best.
Not debugged calc code - perhaps it it is worse there (Michael S)
+ configure tinderboxes to use this - gives nice stack traces. ? (Michael M)
+ concern wrt. full traces currently printing variables - mangling that (Miklos)
+ would need a reproducible scenario.
+ can try to find it again in an hour-long debugging session (Markus)
=> disable when we have a concrete bug report.
+ ask Tamás Bunth how he feels about Firebird default (Lionel)
[ lots of firebird bugs appear to be being fixed - great (Michael) ]
* Pending Action Items:
+ provide information for cloph on what the large Help change is (Olivier)
+ need a diff of the kind of string change, so Cloph can write a script.
+ poke at MSDN licenses (Michael)
[ internal conversation ongoing ]
+ move gitdm-config to gerrit (Norbert)
[ not happened yet, missing Norbert ]
+ investigate https://beta.opendocumentformat.org/testsets/all/en (Xisco)
+ improve QA Stats in the ESC minutes (Xisco)
* Release Engineering update (Christian)
+ 18.104.22.168 - next week, done by Jan
+ Venetian language: request to add.
+ made a gerrit change request; do we want to have it ?
+ already enabled on master & 5.3 - unlikely to break things.
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/31727/ => just merge it.
+ 5.3.0 Beta2 & branch today, libreoffice-5-3-0 branch with rc2
+ waiting for pootle to do template updates
+ must be something wrong with VM / KVM
+ can't get that going.
+ need to have a B2 for bug-hunting at the weekend.
+ Late features:
+ separating images and icons for help modules (Olivier, Bubli)
+ still waiting for Olivier's sample string change to write the script.
+ we need to see the impact on translators.
+ misc. PDF signing / embedding bits (Miklos)
+ now completed - and all fixes back-ported
+ Android & iOS Remote (Cloph)
+ master is green now.
+ will prepare a new build based on the branch-off tag
+ online (Michael)
+ branched for -5-3 – will create source tarballs.
* UX Update (Heiko)
+ Bugzilla (topicUI) statistics
256(256) (topicUI) bugs open, 494(494) (needsUXEval) needs to be evaluated by the UXteam
BZ changes 1 week 1 month 3 months 12 months
added 2(-5) 16(-5) 61(-4) 489(-3)
commented 14(-40) 187(-48) 926(-61) 2793(-32)
removed 0(0) 1(0) 24(-2) 30(0)
resolved 6(-1) 17(1) 115(3) 133(5)
+ top 10 contributors:
Heiko Tietze made 40 changes in 1 month, and 515 changes in 1 year
*UNKNOWN* made 13 changes in 1 month, and 13 changes in 1 year
Samuel Mehrbrodt made 13 changes in 1 month, and 50 changes in 1 year
*UNKNOWN* made 12 changes in 1 month, and 101 changes in 1 year
Yousuf Philips made 11 changes in 1 month, and 408 changes in 1 year
*UNKNOWN* made 11 changes in 1 month, and 22 changes in 1 year
Rene Engelhard made 10 changes in 1 month, and 10 changes in 1 year
Tor Lillqvist made 8 changes in 1 month, and 9 changes in 1 year
V Stuart Foote made 5 changes in 1 month, and 193 changes in 1 year
*UNKNOWN* made 5 changes in 1 month, and 5 changes in 1 year
+ quiet days, working on color palette blog post
* Crashtest update (Caolan)
+ 2 import failure, 6 export failures
- only 1 svg import failure fixed
+ 16 coverity.
+ engaging with Google on ossfuzz
+ accepted our project.
+ need to merge in work from Caolan to make it run.
+ start with one file format to see how it goes.
* TDF / Budgeting / Brainstorming (Thorsten)
+ Idea generation:
+ Community Building feature / fix / tooling
+ Quality improvement tooling
+ Hard / dull but necessary stuff not getting done
+ Large missing features / function
+ IDE / simpler building (JanI)
+ More CI hardware to get quicker build-times (Noel)
+ consider cloud hardware cost; scale on-demand ? (Bjoern)
+ Image handling re-work (Michael)
+ have some ideas (Thorsten)
+ patch update code (Markus)
+ allow pushing patches, lots of details to sort out
+ have a FOSDEM talk for this in the dev-room
+ talk to releng & devs there @ the hack-fest.
=> not sure it will work out as a tender; already 70% done.
+ Windows & Linux ~done; no Mac so not tested
+ post Macs to people (Michael)
+ Accessibility improvements (Bubli / Michael)
+ User Metrics - would like real user data (Heiko)
+ 32bit icon creation (Heiko)
+ HSQLDB binary format migration (Michael)
+ finishing online help -> make it actually online (Kendy)
+ finishing the XHP generating JS, sort out translations,
ensure it works off-line with searching; and finally killing help viewer.
+ ideally also online editor (that would upload patches to gerrit)
+ tender submitted for BoD (Olivier)
+ split signing from the build process (Norbert)
+ so post-build sign it.
+ 5.5 idea - re-thinking how we install language-packs (Markus)
+ if we have an auto-updater with signed MAR files.
+ could provide translated installer, and download rest during install.
+ signing is done on the whole archive with this approach.
+ Improved scripting debugging (Michael)
+ awesome like browser ... built-in XRay
+ finish the API discovery/self-documentation by Bjoern
+ SmartArt - missing feature (Michael)
+ Better integration of extensions (Heiko)
+ Design-team page of topics for GSOC (Heiko)
+ unwind EMF+/WMF disaster area (Thorsten)
+ Improve the look of the SDK (Bjoern)
+ undo hugely painful gnumake-ness etc.
+ make it much more usable, and ideally from IDEs.
+ Ideally prefer to have stuff tried in GSOC first (Thorsten)
+ only fund it if it is really not going to get done.
AI: + create & publish a wiki page for this (JanI)
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Budget2017 + could we have a 'tips' scheme (Heiko)
+ KDE side, use pay-pal only https://www.kde.org/fundraisers/yearend2016/ + sounds like re-inventing freedom sponsors (Bubli)
+ if this happens - do it outside the foundation to avoid issues (Norbert)
+ like barnstars but with a financial 'tip' - is the idea.
* mentoring/easyhack update (janI)
+ openhub statistics based on analysis from 2016-11-29
1598(1598) people did in total: 443675(443675) commits in 8301307(8301307) lines of code
284(284) people did in 12 month: 15495(15495) commits
+ gerrit/git statistics:
committer... 1 week 1 month 3 months 12 months
open 35(4) 56(3) 63(3) 63(3)
reviews 503(149) 1384(146) 3626(143) 17630(170)
merged 236(-12) 850(35) 2312(125) 8678(150)
abandoned 12(0) 48(2) 142(5) 650(1)
commits 307(21) 1315(-3) 4007(144) 15568(52)
contributor... 1 week 1 month 3 months 12 months
open 20(-2) 44(2) 49(4) 49(4)
reviews 606(1) 1917(156) 4713(287) 17750(316)
merged 31(2) 122(10) 367(14) 1311(24)
abandoned 5(-3) 18(2) 51(0) 401(-15)
commits 71(15) 256(15) 881(20) 4125(27)
+ easyHack statistics:
needsDevEval 18(18) needsUXEval 4(4) cleanup_comments 192(192)
total 235(235) assigned 14(14) open 197(197)
+ received patches from 5 emails the last month without license statement
+ top 5 contributors:
Gabor Kelemen made 41 patches in 1 month, and 145 patches in 1 year
Zdenek Crhonek made 22 patches in 1 month, and 307 patches in 1 year
Bartosz Kosiorek made 16 patches in 1 month, and 27 patches in 1 year
Mark Page made 11 patches in 1 month, and 31 patches in 1 year
Lera Goncharuk made 6 patches in 1 month, and 6 patches in 1 year
+ top 5 reviewers:
jan iversen made 172 review comments in 1 month, and 1688 in 1 year
Markus Mohrhard made 134 review comments in 1 month, and 1638 in 1 year
Noel Grandin made 132 review comments in 1 month, and 1242 in 1 year
Eike Rathke made 106 review comments in 1 month, and 1292 in 1 year
Caolán McNamara made 82 review comments in 1 month, and 1407 in 1 year
+ big CONGRATULATIONS to contributors who have at least 1 merged patch, since last report:
** Removed this week, due to rework **
+ worked on gitdm licenses, we all need to be more careful when
merging and check that the author has submitted a license.
+ We need to start a discussion on the objective for mentoring
+ growing disconnect between:
+ what I see/read from contributors and
+ what experienced developers tell is missing.
+ Maybe we should have a “headhunter” instead of a “mentor”.
+ eg. a big discussion this morning: is an IDE useful for new developers.
+ is the objective - to get new people in from Universities ?
+ train to be core developers or ...
+ or do we want experinced developers from day #1
+ do we need an IDE when people can start day#1 ?
+ what JanI sees from universities.
+ surely IDE integration helps everyone (Michael)
+ experienced devs use IDE, but can also run 'make'.
+ Complete IDE integration is really hard (Norbert)
+ phenomenal problems for a complete build here (Michael)
+ core issue: can we move canonical builds away from 'make' ? (Bjoern)
+ if we get to some point like this - kill the old one ASAP.
+ a different build system needs to completely replace the old one,
+ have enough advantage to replace the old one.
+ a new person: (JanI)
+ git clone LODE - half day & full-day before you can code.
+ has nothing to do with make - but requiring cygwin & config (Bjoern)
+ and not supplying an IDE solution in our repo. (JanI)
+ want to have a solution for XYZ IDE - needs manual maintenance (Bjoern)
+ by definition not cross-platform; generated from 'make' or ... diverging duplication.
+ someone creating e.g. a Visual Studio extension that does all the cygwin/git clone/gerrit bootstrapping would be much appreciated though (Bjoern)
+ make when it runs on windows - takes 300Mb of memory (Norbert)
+ have an IDE - with sol'n with everything in it -> takes a long time to load.
+ most likely an IDE killer.
+ (also, reproducing all custom dependencies around UNO registries, l10ntools etc. will be a pain -- and a maintanance horror) (Bjoern)
+ eg. a pre-canned bundle with pre-built 'externals' and pre-canned VS file made from make (Michael)
=> come up with a good compromise proposal for next time (JanI)
* Re-organising which rules tests run under (Markus, Michael S, David)
+ unfortunately - spent last week debugging a11y (Michael S)
+ been running with the patch himself
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/31075/ + https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/31075/ + an annoying problem - we have a serialization point to stop big libraries linking in parallel
+ to help small laptops.
+ with all tests depending on services.rdb
+ while large libraries are linekd one after another; v. little runs in parallel with that.
+ build takes a minute or two longer
+ prolly not an improvement - espcially for CI.
+ is there a better way ? (Michael M)
+ eg. service dependencies.
+ the 30 component files in the makefiles is the issue (Michael S)
+ make - wants to first build all objects before linking the 1st library (Michael S)
+ still have external deps hard-coded 'make -j1' eg. NSS (Norbert)
+ what's a plan ?
+ move half the tests to subsequentcheck ?
+ create macros for subsets of tests ? (Michael)
+ have for the whole module the same set of component files ? (Markus)
+ automatically take them from the module definition ?
+ in calc/impress/writer (Michael S)
+ testing embedded objects - needing other components.
+ could special-case these tests (Markus)
+ would like to parallelise linking for CI (Norbert)
+ screenshot / dependency bits failing on windows (Norbert)
+ make clean ; make screenshot - systematically fails on lpsolver.
AI: + file a bug report ? (Norbert)
=> abandon until there is something people want to merge.
* Hardware issues (Michael)
+ can live without the swiss macs (Norbert)
+ how can we get them posted to people ? (Cloph)
+ taxes determined by weight, etc.
+ who has access to the data-center ?
AI: + poke Florian to encourage posting of Macs (Cloph)
+ would be useful to have a Mac - have some pending theming issues (Kendy)
+ who else needs a Mac ? ... answers on a post-card.
* l10n (Sophie)
+ LibreOffice Online pot files hasn’t been uploaded for 7 weeks
+ huge performance issues, will have an upgrade next week on Thursday.
+ hope this will solve the perf. problem.
+ translate.za - are working on this (Cloph)
+ doing some test migrations on their systems, if issues - will fix it.
+ plan is for Thur. if they can solve the performance issues, so down-time expected to be hours.
+ database needs to be migrated to the new schema (Cloph)
+ the transition to it is the thing that is slow.
* Testlink (Sophie)
+ testing this to replace MozTrap
+ it does localized test descriptions.
On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +0000, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + someone creating e.g. a Visual Studio extension that does all the cygwin/git clone/gerrit bootstrapping would be much appreciated though (Bjoern)
> + eg. a pre-canned bundle with pre-built 'externals' and pre-canned VS file made from make (Michael)
... and the core issue with that is the number of different configs we support
even on Windows. While that makes some sense on Linux, where each distro is a
unique snowflake in some way, it makes very little sense on Windows, where most
things should be the same on all systems. Or at least _could_ be the same on
I mean, we could have a tinderbox run "./autogen.sh && make
vs2013-ide-integration" once a week and make it commit the result Visual Studio
solutions to the core repo. Note this does _not_ need a full build anymore, so
should be a matter of minutes. But for those to work universally, it requires
tooling that reproduces pretty much exactly as on the canonical tinderbox that
created the solutions, including:
- cygwin install
LODE did some great steps in that direction, but I fear is not quite there yet.
If you get Windows builds to kill all those degrees of freedom, then this
should work just fine (including pre-build 'external').
So again: This is less of an build issue, than one of configuration management.
> + Late features:
> + separating images and icons for help modules (Olivier, Bubli)
> + still waiting for Olivier's sample string change to write
> the script. + we need to see the impact on translators.
I'm slightly reluctant to make this 5.3 late feature, not because of the
impact on translations (which I clarified in another e-mail to Cloph & Olivier)
but because of the impact on how help is packaged on all 3 platforms for TDF
builds and Linux distributions.
For complete separation, every offline help package will now need to come with
extra zip archive with images. This is a non-trivial change and I don't think
it's fair to expect distro packagers to do that kind of work this late in the
For partial separation, a zip archive with help images can be shipped along
with icon themes. The only difference is that the images (misc illustrations
and new screenshots) will have moved from core to help git repository. This is
presumably less work for the packagers, but it adds some load still ...
Katarína Behrens wrote:
> I'm slightly reluctant to make this 5.3 late feature, not because of
> the impact on translations (which I clarified in another e-mail to
> Cloph & Olivier) but because of the impact on how help is packaged
> on all 3 platforms for TDF builds and Linux distributions.
Right - and the question is, what does it buy us anyway for 5.3, given
that new helpcontent / extra images will only happen on master after
Michael Meeks wrote:
> * TDF / Budgeting / Brainstorming (Thorsten)
> + Idea generation:
> + Community Building feature / fix / tooling
> + Quality improvement tooling
> + Hard / dull but necessary stuff not getting done
> + Large missing features / function
> + have some ideas (Thorsten)
Added to https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Budget2017
Michael Meeks wrote on 08-12-16 17:56:
> + Mail merge regressions: http://tdf.io/mmregressions > + 4 open; 4 open last meeting (2 OSX, 1 Linux, 1 generic but hard repro)
> => drop from the QA section from now - always four.
On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:19:54PM +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Michael Meeks wrote on 08-12-16 17:56:
> > + Mail merge regressions: http://tdf.io/mmregressions > > + 4 open; 4 open last meeting (2 OSX, 1 Linux, 1 generic but hard repro)
> > => drop from the QA section from now - always four.
> Counting 5 at the moment.
Yes, but the rationale was the extraordinary number of MM regressions we had
during the cleanup of the old (really horrible) code. That major cleanup is
finishe for the most part now, activity in the area is back to normal, so no
justification anymore to highlight MM regressions over regressions elsewhere.
> Yes, but the rationale was the extraordinary number of MM regressions we had
> during the cleanup of the old (really horrible) code. That major cleanup is
> finishe for the most part now, activity in the area is back to normal, so no
> justification anymore to highlight MM regressions over regressions elsewhere.