[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] New: Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] New: Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70978

          Priority: medium
            Bug ID: 70978
                CC: [hidden email]
          Assignee: [hidden email]
           Summary: Word counter text is robotic, unnatural
          Severity: normal
    Classification: Unclassified
                OS: All
          Reporter: [hidden email]
          Hardware: All
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
           Version: 4.1.0.4 release
         Component: ux-advise
           Product: LibreOffice

Currently, the word counter at Writer’s status bar wastes space in a hugely
unnatural wording:

   Words (characters): n (n)
   Words (characters): n (n) Selected: n (n)

LibreOffice should not speak like a robot. Transform this into:

   n words, n characters
   n words, n characters (sel.: n, n)

---
(This bug is already fixed in the Spanish locale, see
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/es/libo_ui/sw/source/ui/app.po/translate/#unit=40233990.)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70978

Samuel M. <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |ASSIGNED
           Assignee|[hidden email] |[hidden email]
                   |desktop.org                 |
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]
     Ever confirmed|0                           |1

--- Comment #1 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
I'll have a look at this, sounds like a good change.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #2 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
Maybe it's better to remove the "Selected" part.

This doesn't look good:
  120 Words, 607 Characters (Selected: 5, 34)

And this would be way too long:
  120 Words, 607 Characters (Selected: 5 Words, 34 Characters)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #3 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
Also consider the flickering when you select something. The footer will have to
be repositioned.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #4 from Adolfo (fitoschido) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to comment #2)
> Maybe it's better to remove the "Selected" part.

No, that would be a regression (why did we add it in the first place).

Instead, when there is a selection, remove the whole document’s stats and only
show selection stats. This is like what Office 2013 does, but better. So it
would be:

   n words, n characters           (Normal)
   n words, n characters selected  (Selection)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #5 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
Thanks Adolfo, that's a good suggestion. I've updated the patch accordingly:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/6479

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #6 from Thomas Arnhold <[hidden email]> ---
Why not do it like Office:

Words: 20, Characters: 123           (Normal}
Words: 3/20, Characters: 34/123      (Selection)

That should be intuitive and easy to understand. Giving the number before the
meaning (20 words) is not as easy to understand as vice versa (words: 20).

And it's the shortest variant :)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #7 from Adolfo (fitoschido) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to comment #6)
> That should be intuitive and easy to understand. Giving the number before
> the meaning (20 words) is not as easy to understand as vice versa (words:
> 20).

Not as easy to understand? In which language? :-)

That does not sound natural, the point of opening this bug was to change the
over-bracketed and over-punctuated string into something more grammatically
correct.

(Also, words should all be lowercase, you don’t write a word in uppercase after
a comma, and Title Case doesn’t fit here.)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #8 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
I still prefer the suggestion from Adolfo. It's easier to read and understand.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #9 from k-j <[hidden email]> ---
Why don't you write:

"37 of 200 words, 123 of 560 characters selected."
You get all informations in one sentence

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #10 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
@k-j: It's too long for the Statusbar.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #11 from Stefan Knorr (astron) <[hidden email]> ---
Adolfo's suggestion sounds best to me too: it's focused, short enough and
doesn't look like a fraction.
Only real con I can think of is that with that solution it is probably easier
to create something ungrammatical in languages with multiple plural forms (like
Russian). (I reckon the the translations for such languages are already
ungrammatical in soem places, so it wouldn't be dramatically worse.)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #12 from Samuel M. <[hidden email]> ---
So can we agree on Adolfo's suggestion?

   n words, n characters           (Normal)
   n words, n characters selected  (Selection)

(Should it be Upper- or Lowercase?)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #13 from Adolfo (fitoschido) <[hidden email]> ---
Use lowercase, please :-)

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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--- Comment #14 from Urmas <[hidden email]> ---
That's stupid. The word counter should display the numbers, and do that fast.
It should not sit there wasting time and power to reevaluate plural rules on
each update.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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Commit Notification <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Whiteboard|                            |target:4.2.0

--- Comment #15 from Commit Notification <[hidden email]> ---
Samuel Mehrbrodt committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=01af3e2efd4f7e0994340cb5b09c252323de63d9

fdo#70978 Improve Word Count display



The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds
Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 70978] Word counter text is robotic, unnatural

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Michael Meeks <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |RESOLVED
         Resolution|---                         |FIXED

--- Comment #16 from Michael Meeks <[hidden email]> ---
Looks lovely - can't back-port to 4.1 due to string / translation changes =>
marking fixed.

Thanks so much Samuel / Adolfo & all for the nice polish ! =)

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