[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] New: Default image insert anchor and wrapping

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] New: Default image insert anchor and wrapping

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

            Bug ID: 87720
           Summary: Default image insert anchor and wrapping
           Product: LibreOffice
           Version: 4.5.0.0.alpha0+ Master
          Hardware: Other
                OS: All
            Status: NEW
          Severity: enhancement
          Priority: medium
         Component: ux-advise
          Assignee: [hidden email]
          Reporter: [hidden email]
                CC: [hidden email]

By default libreoffice inserts images as To Paragraph, Optimal and many users
coming from other word processors are not familiar with LO's image insertion
behaviour and may like to change this default behaviour. So i'd like to suggest
that in Tools > Options > LibreOffice Writer > General, we add a section
entitled 'Image Insert' and provide two drop down lists - 1) Anchor, 2) Text
Wrap.

Defaults in other word processors:

MS Word - In Line (aka As Character)
WPS Writer - In Line (aka As Character)
Google Docs - In Line (aka As Character)
WordPerfect - Paragraph, Square/Both Sides (aka Paragraph, Parallel)
Abiword - In Line (aka As Character)
Calligra Words - Floating Free (aka To Page, Optimal)

Is there a reason why LO has decided to stick with this default anchor and
wrapping preset for insertion of images?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jay Philips <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.freedesktop.or
                   |                            |g/show_bug.cgi?id=82873

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jay Philips <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Blocks|                            |87740

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #1 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
Another setting worth providing options to is alignment, as presently, inserted
images are always center aligned.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jay Philips <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email],
                   |                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #2 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
CCing iplaw and foss to add how iWork inserts an image.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #3 from Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> ---
Hi Jay

Is MS Word - In Line _as_ character or _at_ character?

Two suggestions to work on this idea:
1. could we advice something wrt exchange of files with other word processors?
2. I think this on is interesting to ask on users@. Will do for Dutch language.

Cheers,
Cor

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #4 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
Hey Cor

(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #3)
> Is MS Word - In Line _as_ character or _at_ character?

MS Word calls it 'In Line', LO calls it 'As Character'.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

A (Andy) <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #5 from A (Andy) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #0)

> By default libreoffice inserts images as To Paragraph, Optimal and many
> users coming from other word processors are not familiar with LO's image
> insertion behaviour and may like to change this default behaviour. So i'd
> like to suggest that in Tools > Options > LibreOffice Writer > General, we
> add a section entitled 'Image Insert' and provide two drop down lists - 1)
> Anchor, 2) Text Wrap.
>
> Defaults in other word processors:
>
> MS Word - In Line (aka As Character)
> WPS Writer - In Line (aka As Character)
> Google Docs - In Line (aka As Character)
> WordPerfect - Paragraph, Square/Both Sides (aka Paragraph, Parallel)
> Abiword - In Line (aka As Character)
> Calligra Words - Floating Free (aka To Page, Optimal)
>
> Is there a reason why LO has decided to stick with this default anchor and
> wrapping preset for insertion of images?

I would also like to have such an option.  Now, I always have to change from
anchored To Paragraph to anchored As Character, because I normally need to have
it anchored as character.  Therefore, this behaviour is currently very
inconvenient for me.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default image insert anchor and wrapping

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #6 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
Looking at the video and images sent to me by Alex and Steve, images inserted
in iWork Pages are set to automatic wrapping (similar to LO's parallel wrap,
but smarter) with automatic contour and 12pt (0.42 cm) spacing and an anchor of
'To Character'.

After seeing the spacing being applied in Pages, i went to check if MSO did the
same and yes it does. MSO inserts an image with a default 0.13" (0.33 cm or
3.69 pt) spacing on the left and right, which is does not take effect when an
image is anchored 'As Character' or wrapped as 'None'.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

Jay Philips <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Default image insert anchor |Default insert image
                   |and wrapping                |anchor, wrapping, and
                   |                            |spacing

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #7 from Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> ---
what popup up in my mind (sorry for that ;) ) to check for this issue:

- what is the behaviour when a paragraph with an image crosses the page border,
because of adding/deleting content above it?
- is there a difference when exporting to doc(x)?
- in one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
document?
Things like that.
Of course this focus is wider then just: what do the others do, but has
important aspects too for user experience.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #8 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #7)
> - what is the behaviour when a paragraph with an image crosses the page
> border, because of adding/deleting content above it?

Only when an image is anchored 'To Page' does it not move with the content it
is attached to, as its position is fixed on that particular page.

> - is there a difference when exporting to doc(x)?

Doc(x) doesnt translate 1 to 1 between LO's anchor settings (bug 49179).
Microsoft doesnt present users with both anchor and wrap options by default.
They show a list of wrap options, all of which are anchored 'To Character'
though it never shows the anchor in the interface, except for 'In Line' wrap
which is anchored 'As Character'.

> - is one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
> document?

Setting anchor to 'To Page', 'To Paragraph' and 'To Character', all act the
same way when moving an image on a page, only that 'To Page', the image doesnt
move along with text movement.

> Of course this focus is wider then just: what do the others do, but has
> important aspects too for user experience.

MS Word, iWork and Google Docs use 'To Character' when they allow an image to
be wrapped, but most dont show the anchor position indicator on the page.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #9 from Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #8)

> > - is one of the choices more stable in settings when moving the image in the
> > document?
>
> Setting anchor to 'To Page', 'To Paragraph' and 'To Character', all act the
> same way when moving an image on a page, only that 'To Page', the image
> doesnt move along with text movement.

I didn't talk about a stable position. I meant when a paragraph moves with an
image in that paragraph. When that crosses a page, at some moment...
Does that differ with one or the other option..

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 87720] Default insert image anchor, wrapping, and spacing

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87720

--- Comment #10 from Jay Philips <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #9)
> I didn't talk about a stable position. I meant when a paragraph moves with
> an image in that paragraph. When that crosses a page, at some moment...
> Does that differ with one or the other option..

When an image is anchored as 'To Paragraph', 'To Character', or 'As Character'
and the movement from page to page is exactly the same with 'To Paragraph' and
'To Character', while 'As Character' acts different. With 'To Paragraph' and
'To Characer', an image can appear over the page's margin when its position not
enough text from the paragraph has moved onto the previous or next page, while
this doesnt happen with 'As Character'.

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