[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

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Korrawit Pruegsanusak Korrawit Pruegsanusak
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hello all,

Forward this to libreoffice-ux-advise. Would be good to have it before
string freeze, which is due next Monday :)

Thanks!

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 05:21, willubuntu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello guys,
>
> I've corrected some problems (truncated strings) in the UI that was
> affecting the French LibO translation.
>
> 1. When saving in other formats than ODF:
>
> Problem:
> http://libreoffice.gathoye.be/Libreoffice_bug_report_3.5_not_enough_place_save_fr.png
>
> Solution:
> http://libreoffice.gathoye.be/Libreoffice_bug_report_3.5_not_enough_place_save_en_patch.png
>
> I've so removed the "Use" verb in the string button, but added a new
> question to sound more user friendly.
> And I tried to add [ en-US ] in the text Save that wasn't transtated in the
> dialog title.
>
> Sorry in the compilation I made, my dialog style is still transparent, I
> don't know why...
> The revisions I made on US translation template aren't automatically pushed
> to .po file in the translation folder. An idea ?
>
> 2. In Writer, the name given to the new word count feature is quite strange
> : Word Count. It doesn't only count the words but the chars and spaces too.
> I think the old name remains still the best : "Statistics".
>
> Other problem with this new improved feature : the close button isn't
> translated. So I checked if this latter had [ en-US ].
>
> My patch:  http://pastebin.com/X7FG1kW8
>


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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Korrawit Pruegsanusak wrote (07-01-12 06:48)

> Forward this to libreoffice-ux-advise. Would be good to have it before
> string freeze, which is due next Monday :)

Sounds reasonable to me ...

However, I remember there has been quite extensive discussion / testing
(in which I wasn't involved, so I don't remember details - which I
wouldn't anyway) to get is as it is now.

Maybe it's good to look at this lists archives for those.

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  - http://nl.libreoffice.org

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Stefan Knorr (Astron) Stefan Knorr (Astron)
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hi all,

So...
1. The change of the title (Text to Text [en-US]) seems extremely
sensible to me and should get in as early as possible, so other
translators see the new string too.

2. The question you added seems sensible to me, even though it makes
the text even longer [1], so should probably get in. Also, it would be
great, if you could remove or at least comment out the "en-US-old"
thing, that seems mighty confusing.

3. It is a bit of a problem to use button labels without a verb (or
alternatively OK) and also probably goes against most HIGs, so not a
good idea IMO. William, is it a possibility to use just "Utiliser ODF"
just for French (that this is a file format is made clear before,
anyway)?

4. I have a few reservations against using "Statistics" instead of
"Word Count." While, technically, you're right, the word count is just
part of what you get, "Word Count" seems much more digestible to me
and is also the main use of the feature. Also, it used to be called
"Word Count" in all older English version, too.


> However, I remember there has been quite extensive discussion / testing (in
> which I wasn't involved, so I don't remember details - which I wouldn't
> anyway) to get is as it is now.


Right, there was a bit of discussion about the dialog, see this
(pretty long) thread:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2011-August/000201.html

We didn't reach any consensus, there, though

Regards,

Astron.


[1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000062.html
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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hi all!

Adding Josh, since he provided the initial patch to improve the dialog.

Furthermore, there is a recent bug reporting this issue (also) for the
German translation. So, whoever has the power of the source *g*, please
subscribe (assign) to it:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44155

Am Samstag, den 07.01.2012, 11:54 +0100 schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron):
> Hi all,
>
> So...
> 1. The change of the title (Text to Text [en-US]) seems extremely
> sensible to me and should get in as early as possible, so other
> translators see the new string too.

Good catch! Especially, since I missed that we now use a different
string than "$PRODUCTNAME".

However, the currently used "Save" is a bit misleading to me, since (at
least in Gnome) it is also used in the preceding Save As dialog. Our
recent dialog is about asking the user whether he is sure about the
chosen file format.

If we decide to use the title bar text, could we please use something
like: "Confirm file format" / "Use of file format".

Astron, your thoughts?

For the record, Gnome suggests to avoid title text for alert windows:
http://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.0/windows-alert.html


> 2. The question you added seems sensible to me, even though it makes
> the text even longer [1], so should probably get in. Also, it would be
> great, if you could remove or at least comment out the "en-US-old"
> thing, that seems mighty confusing.
>
> 3. It is a bit of a problem to use button labels without a verb (or
> alternatively OK) and also probably goes against most HIGs, so not a
> good idea IMO. William, is it a possibility to use just "Utiliser ODF"
> just for French (that this is a file format is made clear before,
> anyway)?

Mmh, although I understand the rationale, I fear that the recent changes
make the dialog more complicated that it was before Josh initially
touched it. The body text is now longer (having the real question at the
end), whilst the buttons don't reveal to less advanced users what they
are for. People usually scan the button text first, before they start
reading the alert text.

So my suggestion is to keep the current behavior. William, does Astron's
proposal sound reasonable? That would be great ...

Astron mentioned the missing consensus - maybe we can further improve
for the next release? I still think that something like
        [Confirm WhatEver Format] [Switch to ODF]
or
        [Use WhatEver Format] [Use ODF Format]
would be more helpful. The rationale can be found here:
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2011-August/000209.html


> 4. I have a few reservations against using "Statistics" instead of
> "Word Count." While, technically, you're right, the word count is just
> part of what you get, "Word Count" seems much more digestible to me
> and is also the main use of the feature. Also, it used to be called
> "Word Count" in all older English version, too.

+1 to use "Word Count" for the same reasons. However, thanks for fixing
the "en-US" tag.

For the record: some "statistics" (German equivalent: document
statistics) are already available in File - Properties - Statistics.

[...]

Cheers,
Christoph

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hi Christoph, William, everyone reading,

I've made a new patch that does only the following things:
* Correct the [en-US] thing
* Use Christoph's proposal "Confirm File Format" as the window title
* Remove the [en-US-old] text as that would have only been confusing
* (Probably most controversial:) shortened the body text, but added a
question in again, so now this is:
"This document may contain content that cannot be saved in the
currently selected file format "FORMATNAME". Do you really want to use
"FORMATNAME"?

To be sure the document is saved correctly, use the ODF format."

If there is no uproar, I will push this and ask for a cherry-pick (my
git skills are still a bit rudimentary and I don't want to mess up the
release).

Regards,

Astron.

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0001-Make-the-title-of-foreign-file-format-warning-transl.patch (2K) Download Attachment
Korrawit Pruegsanusak Korrawit Pruegsanusak
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
Hello Christoph, all,

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 03:14, Christoph Noack <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Furthermore, there is a recent bug reporting this issue (also) for the
> German translation. So, whoever has the power of the source *g*, please
> subscribe (assign) to it:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44155

For the choice buttons that are too small, IMHO this could be fixed by
resizing them to be larger, if don't want to change the texts. :-)

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hi Korrawit,

> For the choice buttons that are too small, IMHO this could be fixed by
> resizing them to be larger, if don't want to change the texts. :-)

Hm, probably. Could you have a look, though, please, as these labels
are already supposed to get wider automatically and don't use
hard-coded numbers unlike most of our UI code.

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PATCH 3.5 and master] Avoid UI bugs in translations

2012/1/9 Stefan Knorr (Astron) <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Korrawit,
>
>> For the choice buttons that are too small, IMHO this could be fixed by
>> resizing them to be larger, if don't want to change the texts. :-)
>
> Hm, probably. Could you have a look, though, please, as these labels
> are already supposed to get wider automatically and don't use
> hard-coded numbers unlike most of our UI code.

No, the second button was not resized automatically. Now it is fixed.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=2e0ec77cd6bbfe599d63f3a67218c1cf09bb19a6
In 3-5, too.

Best regards,
Andras
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] Avoid UI bugs in translations

In reply to this post by Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Hi Stefan,

2012/1/8 Stefan Knorr (Astron) <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Christoph, William, everyone reading,
>
> I've made a new patch that does only the following things:
> * Correct the [en-US] thing
> * Use Christoph's proposal "Confirm File Format" as the window title
> * Remove the [en-US-old] text as that would have only been confusing
> * (Probably most controversial:) shortened the body text, but added a
> question in again, so now this is:
> "This document may contain content that cannot be saved in the
> currently selected file format "FORMATNAME". Do you really want to use
> "FORMATNAME"?
>
> To be sure the document is saved correctly, use the ODF format."
>
> If there is no uproar, I will push this and ask for a cherry-pick (my
> git skills are still a bit rudimentary and I don't want to mess up the
> release).
>

Thanks for taking care of this issue. Pushed to libreoffice-3-5 with
changes. I did not see the point in shortening the body text. My goal
was to keep the amount of textual changes as little as possible at
this late stage of 3-5 development.

Best regards,
Andras
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] Avoid UI bugs in translations


On Mon, 2012-01-09 at 21:30 +0100, Andras Timar wrote:
> > "This document may contain content that cannot be saved in the
> > currently selected file format "FORMATNAME". Do you really want to use
> > "FORMATNAME"?
> >
> > To be sure the document is saved correctly, use the ODF format."
...
> Thanks for taking care of this issue. Pushed to libreoffice-3-5 with
> changes. I did not see the point in shortening the body text.

        Personally, I -love- this feature :-) it finally makes that dialog
clear. Any chance whomever did this work (or some other kind volunteer)
can add a screenshot and credit to:

        http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.5

        Thanks ! :-)

                Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] Avoid UI bugs in translations

Hi Michael, Andras,

>> Thanks for taking care of this issue. Pushed to libreoffice-3-5 with
>> changes. I did not see the point in shortening the body text.

Thanks for cherry-picking.
To put it with Joel Spolsky: "Users can't read" (linked to the
corresponding article further up in the thread). So it does make sense
to keep text as short as possible. Anyway, I do understand your
reasoning for not pushing the change in 3.5 (in 3.6, it would be good
to see the change, though).


>        Personally, I -love- this feature :-) it finally makes that dialog
> clear. Any chance whomever did this work (or some other kind volunteer)
> can add a screenshot and credit to:
>
>        http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.5

Hm, right, we (that'd be Josh, Christoph, William and me, possibly
others, too) changed that dialogue twice in the 3.5 cycle. I am
unsure, though, if the number of people who discussed this really
merits a mention in 3.6 release notes (as it's not in 3.5, as Andras
said).

Astron.
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] Avoid UI bugs in translations


On Tue, 2012-01-10 at 16:24 +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote:

> >        Personally, I -love- this feature :-) it finally makes that dialog
> > clear. Any chance whomever did this work (or some other kind volunteer)
> > can add a screenshot and credit to:
> >
> >        http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.5
>
> Hm, right, we (that'd be Josh, Christoph, William and me, possibly
> others, too) changed that dialogue twice in the 3.5 cycle. I am
> unsure, though, if the number of people who discussed this really
> merits a mention in 3.6 release notes (as it's not in 3.5, as Andras
> said).

        It's not ? I do a 'File' Save->As in 3.5.0b2 and instead of this
hideous "Keep Current Format" nonsense that I (and my spouse) visibly
struggle with each time; I get a comprehensible choice :-)

        In my book that is a dialog that ~every one of our users stumbles over,
and having a screenshot of the improvement in the release notes is
pretty useful :-) It'd be great if we could add it ...

        ATB,

                Michael.

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