MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have
> good reasons to not use it.

The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...

> Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
> desktop environments.

Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
package repo.

> I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early
> 2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.

Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
extreme gamer or something like that.

> With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems
> and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of
> processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that
> are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.

Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.

> I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe
> from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them
> again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my
> systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to
> reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.

Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
I've been using for years).

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

On 12/07/2016 01:16 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:

> On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have
>> good reasons to not use it.
> The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
> underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...
>
>> Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
>> desktop environments.
> Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
> of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
> package repo.
>
>> I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early
>> 2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.
> Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
> extreme gamer or something like that.
>
>> With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems
>> and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of
>> processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that
>> are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.
> Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
> system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.
>
>> I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe
>> from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them
>> again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my
>> systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to
>> reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.
> Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
> I've been using for years).
>
First, I never have the money to by the "powerful" laptops or desktop
since 2009.  What I do buy, when I buy new, tends to have Windows
already installed.  Over the years, I have bought systems with XP,
Vista, and Win7 installed.  I still have them all, but the XP now has
Linux and for the Vista I bought the Win7 upgrade disk.  Later the Win7
systems went to Win10.

Second, I am not a gamer and have no need for, plus not have the money
for, the really powerful systems.

Third, I have a lot of security packages loaded.  I have Comodo Internet
Suite [anti virus and firewall, etc.] I have several different types of
malware and other types of software that detects and fixes the types of
"nasties" that try to install and infect Windows systems.  I have never
had any infections, etc., on my Window systems since 2004 or '05.

Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
packages under Linux as I do with Windows. My first line of defense is
Comodo [Windows or Linux] and then I clean/scrub the system with the
other detection/cleaning packages I have.  I do find that using a USB
drive adapter to plug the infected systems to my Windows cleaner
systems, with the full protections running, can clean an infected drive
very well.  Since the USB drive is not running as anything but a "data
drive", I can clean more things this way and faster than any other way -
so far.

I do what is easiest for me, that works best for me as well. Also, as
cheaply as possible for my decreasing budget for tech "stuff".



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TomD TomD
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl
Hi :)
VirtualBox is owned by Oracle and subject to their whims.  At the moment it
is still free and supports open standards but all that could easily
change.  Such changes would make it more consistent with other Oracle
projects although such change is unlikely in the case of
VirtualBox.
Regards from
Tom :)




On 7 December 2016 at 18:16, Tanstaafl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/7/2016 10:51 AM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > If you find Virualbox works well for you, then fine.  Others may have
> > good reasons to not use it.
>
> The only good reasons I can think of not to use it would be an extremely
> underpowered/resourced system, or you're an extreme gamer...
>
> > Same with people using the various Linux distros and different
> > desktop environments.
>
> Virtualbox runs under linux, and I'd be surprised if the vast majority
> of linux users' distro didn't have it available in their standard
> package repo.
>
> > I do not run a Virtualbox type of system on any system since the early
> > 2000's.  I do not want to have any speed reductions for my systems.
>
> Hasn't been a problem in a long time - unless, like I said, you're an
> extreme gamer or something like that.
>
> > With Windows, I have put so much security software on my Windows systems
> > and Windows partitions on the dual boot systems.  That take a lot of
> > processor power to keep my Windows systems free of any "nasties" that
> > are out there to infect and/or destroy my systems.
>
> Good quality security software should not have a significant impact on
> system performance - if it does, you're using the wrong software.
>
> > I am the guy people come to when they do not keep their systems safe
> > from infections and need to have them cleaned up so they can us them
> > again.  Many times I need to remove their drive[s] and run them on my
> > systems as an external drives, since their systems are too infected to
> > reinstall and run the cleaning security packages.
>
> Why go to all that trouble? Just use a bootable CD or USB stick (like
> I've been using for years).
>
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TomD TomD
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Philip Jackson
Hi :)
I  believe that VirtualBox does also allow you to use an existing Operating
System that is already installed on a hard-drive too.

It's something i still haven't looked into but i have confidence in you
figuring it out.  I still think it might help to test-drive a couple of
virtual machines on your system just to get an idea of what's going on.


There is a lot of fuss&bother that makes virtual machines sound almost
mystical and complicated but in truth it's really just like any other
program.  When you run it or switch it on then it uses resources such as
cpu-cycles and ram. When you switch it off or stop running it (or whatever
you want to call it) then hose resources are "freed up" for you main
machine again.

Unlike most programs you can set how much ram the virtual-machine uses and
the program itself uses a little bit for itself.  So on  my machine i can
run 1 virtual machine and give it just over 1 Gb Ram leaving my main
machine with just under 1Gb of Ram - or i can run 2 virtual machines and
give them each 512Mb of Ram, or other such combination.  I can't run 2
virtual machines that each have 1 Gb Ram at the same time as each other!  I
could have lots of virtual machines, even hundreds of them, that each use
1Gb of Ram as long as i don't run (or switch on) more than 1 at a time.

People like to make virtualisation sound a LOT more complicated than it
really is because it makes them seem smarter or because they don't
understand it well enough it make it sound as simple as it really is.

The tricky bit i trying to figure out how to use the program and VirtualBox
tends to keep things fairly simple imo.

Regards from
Tom :)






On 7 December 2016 at 16:29, Philip Jackson <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 07/12/16 15:42, Davis, Felmon wrote:
> > On Dec 7, 2016 8:23 AM, "Philip Jackson" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Would virtualbox (or other) be able to get Windows running on its own
> >> hard disk ? It doesn't have an iso file - just a working version
> >> (licensed) of Windows10.
> >
> > I made an error - a link I sent yesterday I thought addressed this but it
> > wasn't about hosting the Windows stuff under Linux. I will be researching
> > this too.
> >
> > did though install again via licensed (but unactivated) Windows iso and
> > smooth as ice (note: removed repository VB and downloaded Oracle's VB).
> >
> Tom and Felmon,
>
> I don't have a Windows10 installation disk nor an iso file. My Windows
> was originally Windows7 (legit and I must have the Win7 installation
> lurking around somewhere) and I took the free upgrade from MS sometime
> last year.
>
> So, if I understand correctly, if I install VB I will then need to
> install Windows7 in that virtual machine using the original CD/DVD
> disk(s) ? That's where the question of new installation and licensing
> comes in, I suppose.
>
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.
>
> By the way, Felmon, why did you reject the distro version of VB and make
> a direct download from Oracle ?
>
>
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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Philip Jackson
On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.

You mean something like this:

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows

?

Trying to just use an existing partition/install is possible with VB,
but you will encounter issues occasionally. The above is a much cleaner
way to go.

Also, if you have problems re-activating, it is usually very painless
and automated - you call a toll free number, walk through the prompts,
and get a new code to activate. I've done this many times and never not
gotten reactivated, but everyone has to decide on the moral question
regarding the licensing.

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by krackedpress
On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
> systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
> packages under Linux as I do with Windows.

Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?

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Virgil Arrington Virgil Arrington
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RE: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl
I'll admit my ignorance on all things VB, but why not run Windows as the host OS and then run Linux in the VB?

Virgil



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tanstaafl <[hidden email]>
Date: 12/8/16 9:57 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.

You mean something like this:

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows

?

Trying to just use an existing partition/install is possible with VB,
but you will encounter issues occasionally. The above is a much cleaner
way to go.

Also, if you have problems re-activating, it is usually very painless
and automated - you call a toll free number, walk through the prompts,
and get a new code to activate. I've done this many times and never not
gotten reactivated, but everyone has to decide on the moral question
regarding the licensing.

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Philip Jackson Philip Jackson
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl
On 08/12/16 15:56, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 11:29 AM, Philip Jackson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It would be nice if I could just create a VB machine and tell it to load
>> the hard disk which already has the workable installation of Windows 10,
>> together with the couple of applications I use from time to time.
>
> You mean something like this:
>
> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Migrate_Windows
>
Thanks for this link - it looks promising. But I do see some tech speak
that I'm not familiar with like ACPI and APIC.  A quick look shows that
my Windows installation has AGP440.sys and intelppm.sys so that's
another couple of potential problems.

But I think I'll give it a try over the end of year holiday period after
I've cleared up some outstanding job items.

My primary reason for booting into Windows from time to time (maybe a
couple of times a month) is to use Sibelius music notation software. But
I'm gradually getting used to Musescore in linux so maybe the dependence
on Sibelius will reduce. I wouldn't like to have to reinstall Sibelius
in a virtual machine so it would be ideal if I could use the existing
installation which is in the same box but on another disk.

I regret, somewhat, upgrading 7 to 10. W7 used to boot-up rapidly like
linux but 10 takes from 3 to 5 minutes to be usable -probably because it
was an upgrade and not a clean install. What I find the saddest about
Windows, though, is the way MS updates so often want to install
themselves just when I want to shut down and then so often require a
reboot or even two reboots before shut down. If I am not there to watch
the install and catch the reboot manually, my desktop defaults to linux
when Windows triggers its reboot.

So the next time I want to boot into windows, I find that a previous
update has not yet completed and I'm forced to wait while it does.
Linux updates always go on seamlessly in the background and only
occasionally require a reboot - never in the middle of an installation.

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

In reply to this post by Tanstaafl
On 12/08/2016 11:12 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
>> systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
>> packages under Linux as I do with Windows.
> Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?
>
The kicker is finding all of the tools within Linux [Ubuntu] to do all
of the cleaning that I do on a Windows system.
A lot of anti-virus and other security/cleaning products seem not to be
available for Linux users.  On my desktop, that is now just a "file
server", I have Comodo's version for Linux. That is the only package -
of that type - that I use to keep my Windows systems [ Comodo Internet
Suite for Windows ]. There are a lot more security/cleaning packages
that I add to it when going through a system, drive, or even a file.  
That is one reason I have a lot of CPU speed reduced for my work on
Win10 systems. I make sure there is a 99.99% chance of nothing getting
past my security setup.

I do have a Live CD for fixing the GRUB issues that installing a new
version of Windows causes.

I have a Live CD/DVD that has some very basic cleaning software on a
dedicated Linux disk.  Most time, the systems I am asked to fix need
more fixes than that Live media has options for. Most time these systems
cannot update or run the Windows security software.


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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS Anniversary upgrade warning - not LO issue

On 12/8/2016 6:22 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 12/08/2016 11:12 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
>> On 12/7/2016 2:26 PM, Tim---Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote:
>>> Forth, To be honest, using a Live CD/DVD to boot up the infected Windows
>>> systems, I have found that I do not have the extensive list of cleaning
>>> packages under Linux as I do with Windows.

>> Get/find/make a better live CD/DVD?

> The kicker is finding all of the tools within Linux [Ubuntu] to do all
> of the cleaning that I do on a Windows system.

Why? There are Windows boot CD/DVD tools you can create yourself too
(ever heard of Windows PE?).

But...

> A lot of anti-virus and other security/cleaning products seem not to be
> available for Linux users.  On my desktop, that is now just a "file
> server", I have Comodo's version for Linux. That is the only package -
> of that type - that I use to keep my Windows systems [ Comodo Internet
> Suite for Windows ]. There are a lot more security/cleaning packages
> that I add to it when going through a system, drive, or even a file.  
> That is one reason I have a lot of CPU speed reduced for my work on
> Win10 systems. I make sure there is a 99.99% chance of nothing getting
> past my security setup.

99.99% of security is simple common sense, and no software can
substitute for common sense.

I can use a Windows computer on the internet (behind a simple firewall
of course) without any security software whatsoever, and as long as I
don't get careless or sloppy, can remain infection free.

I use ESET to hopefully save me from myself if/when I were to get careless.

So, loading your system down with lots of 'security software' that
significantly slows your computer down is not smart.

> I do have a Live CD for fixing the GRUB issues that installing a new
> version of Windows causes.

Wouldn't be a problem if it was virtualized.

> I have a Live CD/DVD that has some very basic cleaning software on a
> dedicated Linux disk.  Most time, the systems I am asked to fix need
> more fixes than that Live media has options for. Most time these systems
> cannot update or run the Windows security software.

Which is why you should also create a custom Windows PE boot DVD with
your preferred tools.

Here is something I use (among others), it may give you some ideas:

http://www.aomeitech.com/pebuilder/addtools.html

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