MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

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Rogier F. van Vlissingen Rogier F. van Vlissingen
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MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
MSO...

Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.

Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.

--
*Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
*About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>

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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
It's quite likely.  A bug-report is a good idea.  An example file might help. 

Btw i assume your MSO users have stuck with some ancient version of MSO, such as 2007 or something?  I think the compatibility with 2013 is better and that is likely to create problems with compatibility with older versions of MSO.  

Are you sure it's .Doc rather than .DocX that is causing the problem?  Most MSO users have no idea how to save in anything other than DocX so it's FAR more likely they are sending you DocX files and not even realising it or even believing they are sending Doc because they just don't really know what they are using and just jumping on the last name they vaguely recognise.  Windows tries to hide the endings so they really don't know what they are using most of the time. 

Doc itself is being deprecated in order to push people into using the newer DocX and thus forcing people to buy newer versions of MSO even if it's to do exactly the same work that MSO 2003 and earlier could do. 
Regards from
Tom :) 






>________________________________
> From: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:27
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
>MSO...
>
>Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
>which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
>comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
>comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>
>Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>
>--
>*Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
>*About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
>
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Girvin Herr-2 Girvin Herr-2
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc


On 08/13/2013 05:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> It's quite likely.  A bug-report is a good idea.  An example file might help.
>
> Btw i assume your MSO users have stuck with some ancient version of MSO, such as 2007 or something?  I think the compatibility with 2013 is better and that is likely to create problems with compatibility with older versions of MSO.
This implication concerns me!  If LO is going to drop .doc as a
standard, then my advice to others to use .doc instead of .docx as a
common interchange standard is in jeopardy.  I hope LO never drops .doc
as a standard.  That said, I had to open a .docx form I received the
other week and LO opened it fine, with the exception of the usual font
size problems that ran text off the right margin. That was easily fixed
by changing the font size.
Regards.
Girvin Herr

>
> Are you sure it's .Doc rather than .DocX that is causing the problem?  Most MSO users have no idea how to save in anything other than DocX so it's FAR more likely they are sending you DocX files and not even realising it or even believing they are sending Doc because they just don't really know what they are using and just jumping on the last name they vaguely recognise.  Windows tries to hide the endings so they really don't know what they are using most of the time.
>
> Doc itself is being deprecated in order to push people into using the newer DocX and thus forcing people to buy newer versions of MSO even if it's to do exactly the same work that MSO 2003 and earlier could do.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:27
>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>>
>>
>> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
>> MSO...
>>
>> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
>> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
>> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
>> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>>
>> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>>
>> --
>> *Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
>> *About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>>
>>
>>
>>


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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
Oops, no i meant the Doc format compatibility is kinda fixed now and can be gently improved on without worrying about what MS are going to do to it.  The Doc is safe. 

It's only DocX that is constantly changing to the point where being more compatible with one version of MSO seems to mean being less compatible with another.  But even there, maybe it is possible to be more compatible with all of them?  It's often a LibreOffice or OpenOffice users in the office that helps people using different versions of MSO to arrive at something both of them can read happily. 


Rogier did get me worried for a moment that maybe Doc was not working quite as well as i hoped but then i realised it's more likely to be some sort of user-error by one or more of his colleagues.  I find i suffer from user error quite a bit myself so i can easily imagine how it happens.   

I suspect that LO will keep supporting Doc long after MS drop it completely themselves and i don't think that is likely to happen any time soon. 

Regards from

Tom :)





>________________________________
> From: Girvin R. Herr <[hidden email]>
>To: Tom Davies <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 18:53
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>
>On 08/13/2013 05:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> It's quite likely.  A bug-report is a good idea.  An example file might help.
>>
>> Btw i assume your MSO users have stuck with some ancient version of MSO, such as 2007 or something?  I think the compatibility with 2013 is better and that is likely to create problems with compatibility with older versions of MSO.
>This implication concerns me!  If LO is going to drop .doc as a
>standard, then my advice to others to use .doc instead of .docx as a
>common interchange standard is in jeopardy.  I hope LO never drops .doc
>as a standard.  That said, I had to open a .docx form I received the
>other week and LO opened it fine, with the exception of the usual font
>size problems that ran text off the right margin. That was easily fixed
>by changing the font size.
>Regards.
>Girvin Herr
>
>>
>> Are you sure it's .Doc rather than .DocX that is causing the problem?  Most MSO users have no idea how to save in anything other than DocX so it's FAR more likely they are sending you DocX files and not even realising it or even believing they are sending Doc because they just don't really know what they are using and just jumping on the last name they vaguely recognise.  Windows tries to hide the endings so they really don't know what they are using most of the time.
>>
>> Doc itself is being deprecated in order to push people into using the newer DocX and thus forcing people to buy newer versions of MSO even if it's to do exactly the same work that MSO 2003 and earlier could do.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:27
>>> Subject: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>>>
>>>
>>> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
>>> MSO...
>>>
>>> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
>>> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
>>> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
>>> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>>>
>>> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
>>> *About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
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Girvin Herr-2 Girvin Herr-2
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Whew!  That eases my mind.
The only problem is that when MSO no longer supports .doc format as an
option, then MSO users will no longer have that interchange standard
format and we will be at the mercy of whatever proprietary format M$
chooses - again.  I am sure that is by design.
Thanks.
Girvin Herr



On 08/13/2013 11:30 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> Oops, no i meant the Doc format compatibility is kinda fixed now and
> can be gently improved on without worrying about what MS are going to
> do to it.  The Doc is safe.
>
> It's only DocX that is constantly changing to the point where being
> more compatible with one version of MSO seems to mean being less
> compatible with another.  But even there, maybe it is possible to be
> more compatible with all of them?  It's often a LibreOffice or
> OpenOffice users in the office that helps people using different
> versions of MSO to arrive at something both of them can read happily.
>
> Rogier did get me worried for a moment that maybe Doc was not working
> quite as well as i hoped but then i realised it's more likely to be
> some sort of user-error by one or more of his colleagues.  I find i
> suffer from user error quite a bit myself so i can easily imagine how
> it happens.
>
> I suspect that LO will keep supporting Doc long after MS drop it
> completely themselves and i don't think that is likely to happen any
> time soon.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Girvin R. Herr <[hidden email]>
>     *To:* Tom Davies <[hidden email]>
>     *Cc:* Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>;
>     "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 18:53
>     *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ -
>     comments in .doc
>
>
>     On 08/13/2013 05:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
>     > Hi :)
>     > It's quite likely.  A bug-report is a good idea. An example file
>     might help.
>     >
>     > Btw i assume your MSO users have stuck with some ancient version
>     of MSO, such as 2007 or something?  I think the compatibility with
>     2013 is better and that is likely to create problems with
>     compatibility with older versions of MSO.
>     This implication concerns me!  If LO is going to drop .doc as a
>     standard, then my advice to others to use .doc instead of .docx as a
>     common interchange standard is in jeopardy.  I hope LO never drops
>     .doc
>     as a standard.  That said, I had to open a .docx form I received the
>     other week and LO opened it fine, with the exception of the usual
>     font
>     size problems that ran text off the right margin. That was easily
>     fixed
>     by changing the font size.
>     Regards.
>     Girvin Herr
>
>     >
>     > Are you sure it's .Doc rather than .DocX that is causing the
>     problem?  Most MSO users have no idea how to save in anything
>     other than DocX so it's FAR more likely they are sending you DocX
>     files and not even realising it or even believing they are sending
>     Doc because they just don't really know what they are using and
>     just jumping on the last name they vaguely recognise.  Windows
>     tries to hide the endings so they really don't know what they are
>     using most of the time.
>     >
>     > Doc itself is being deprecated in order to push people into
>     using the newer DocX and thus forcing people to buy newer versions
>     of MSO even if it's to do exactly the same work that MSO 2003 and
>     earlier could do.
>     > Regards from
>     > Tom :)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >> ________________________________
>     >> From: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     >> To: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     >> Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:27
>     >> Subject: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ -
>     comments in .doc
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file
>     compatibility with
>     >> MSO...
>     >>
>     >> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I
>     open a .doc
>     >> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character
>     BEFORE the
>     >> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you
>     delete the
>     >> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>     >>
>     >> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> *Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
>     >> *About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     >> Problems?
>     http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>     >> Posting guidelines + more:
>     http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>     >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>     >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
>     cannot be deleted
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>
>
>     --
>     To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     Problems?
>     http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>     Posting guidelines + more:
>     http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>     List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>     All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
>     cannot be deleted
>
>


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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
I suspect that a lot of other programs will also continue to support Doc and as far as possible Rtf too but such files will become increasingly difficult over the longer-term. 


It is time to start moving towards Odt for longer-term storage.  Even MSO supports Odt now and that format is implemented pretty much exactly as documented making it more of a longer-term prospect for anyone that wants to read their own documents in a decade or so.  Doc is possibly the best for most collaborative work right now but Odt will probably take over that role too. 

Regards from

Tom :) 






>________________________________
> From: Girvin R. Herr <[hidden email]>
>To: Tom Davies <[hidden email]>
>Cc: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>; "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 23:36
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>Whew!  That eases my mind.
>The only problem is that when MSO no longer supports .doc format as an
>option, then MSO users will no longer have that interchange standard
>format and we will be at the mercy of whatever proprietary format M$
>chooses - again.  I am sure that is by design.
>Thanks.
>Girvin Herr
>
>
>
>On 08/13/2013 11:30 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
>> Hi :)
>> Oops, no i meant the Doc format compatibility is kinda fixed now and
>> can be gently improved on without worrying about what MS are going to
>> do to it.  The Doc is safe.
>>
>> It's only DocX that is constantly changing to the point where being
>> more compatible with one version of MSO seems to mean being less
>> compatible with another.  But even there, maybe it is possible to be
>> more compatible with all of them?  It's often a LibreOffice or
>> OpenOffice users in the office that helps people using different
>> versions of MSO to arrive at something both of them can read happily.
>>
>> Rogier did get me worried for a moment that maybe Doc was not working
>> quite as well as i hoped but then i realised it's more likely to be
>> some sort of user-error by one or more of his colleagues.  I find i
>> suffer from user error quite a bit myself so i can easily imagine how
>> it happens.
>>
>> I suspect that LO will keep supporting Doc long after MS drop it
>> completely themselves and i don't think that is likely to happen any
>> time soon.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Girvin R. Herr <[hidden email]>
>>     *To:* Tom Davies <[hidden email]>
>>     *Cc:* Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>;
>>     "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 18:53
>>     *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ -
>>     comments in .doc
>>
>>
>>     On 08/13/2013 05:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
>>     > Hi :)
>>     > It's quite likely.  A bug-report is a good idea. An example file
>>     might help.
>>     >
>>     > Btw i assume your MSO users have stuck with some ancient version
>>     of MSO, such as 2007 or something?  I think the compatibility with
>>     2013 is better and that is likely to create problems with
>>     compatibility with older versions of MSO.
>>     This implication concerns me!  If LO is going to drop .doc as a
>>     standard, then my advice to others to use .doc instead of .docx as a
>>     common interchange standard is in jeopardy.  I hope LO never drops
>>     .doc
>>     as a standard.  That said, I had to open a .docx form I received the
>>     other week and LO opened it fine, with the exception of the usual
>>     font
>>     size problems that ran text off the right margin. That was easily
>>     fixed
>>     by changing the font size.
>>     Regards.
>>     Girvin Herr
>>
>>     >
>>     > Are you sure it's .Doc rather than .DocX that is causing the
>>     problem?  Most MSO users have no idea how to save in anything
>>     other than DocX so it's FAR more likely they are sending you DocX
>>     files and not even realising it or even believing they are sending
>>     Doc because they just don't really know what they are using and
>>     just jumping on the last name they vaguely recognise.  Windows
>>     tries to hide the endings so they really don't know what they are
>>     using most of the time.
>>     >
>>     > Doc itself is being deprecated in order to push people into
>>     using the newer DocX and thus forcing people to buy newer versions
>>     of MSO even if it's to do exactly the same work that MSO 2003 and
>>     earlier could do.
>>     > Regards from
>>     > Tom :)
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >> ________________________________
>>     >> From: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     >> To: [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >> Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:27
>>     >> Subject: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ -
>>     comments in .doc
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file
>>     compatibility with
>>     >> MSO...
>>     >>
>>     >> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I
>>     open a .doc
>>     >> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character
>>     BEFORE the
>>     >> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you
>>     delete the
>>     >> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>>     >>
>>     >> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>>     >>
>>     >> --
>>     >> *Rogier Fentener van Vlissingen <http://viz.me/vliscony/t/7>*
>>     >> *About Me* <http://about.me/vliscony>
>>     >>
>>     >> --
>>     >> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
>>     [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >> Problems?
>>    http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>     >> Posting guidelines + more:
>>    http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>     >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>     >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
>>     cannot be deleted
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>
>>
>>     --
>>     To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     Problems?
>>    http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>     Posting guidelines + more:
>>    http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>     List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>>     All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and
>>     cannot be deleted
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
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nabbler nabbler
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by Rogier F. van Vlissingen
On 13/08/2013, Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
> MSO...
>

Consider this a blessing is disguise; the primary use of LO is to
create and increase the quantity of odf documents, not to be a free m$
clone.

> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>
> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>

Why can't you afford to use a legitimate copy of m$?

Are you seriously suggesting programmers' time should be spent on a
minor proprietary format comment feature instead of improving software
QA for LO odf??? Astonishing.

The following hyperlink shows high priority bugs already requiring
resolution (especially regressions which are indicative of a failure
in software QA):
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Useful_Queries

Please review.

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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
I think most of us need to use LO for a variety of reasons.  Price is just one factor amongst many.  I use it because it's better and faster for what i typically need it for and it's cross-platform.  However i still need to be able to communicate with colleagues. 

Oddly they would consider switching only if LO was better at MS formats, and a few other caveats. 

This idea of switching rather than migrating is odd considering their system has both but MS has been clever at making people think that a new system will wipe out the old one and require a radical switch over.  I think we need to encourage the view that it's possible to run both beside each other and if we can do that then people will gradually begin to realise that LibreOffice/OpenOffice (and the rest) are much easier to work with precisely because you can keep using old systems while adapting to the new. 
Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: e-letter <[hidden email]>
>To: Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]>
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 11:09
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>On 13/08/2013, Rogier F. van Vlissingen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ever since 4.0 I have had increasing problems with file compatibility with
>> MSO...
>>
>
>Consider this a blessing is disguise; the primary use of LO is to
>create and increase the quantity of odf documents, not to be a free m$
>clone.
>
>> Currently I am working on a project with MSO users and when I open a .doc
>> which contains any comments, what happens is the last character BEFORE the
>> comment anchor is reduced in font size, and therefore when you delete the
>> comment, you now have to go into the text to fix the font size.
>>
>> Anyone had the same? I think it's time for a bug report.
>>
>
>Why can't you afford to use a legitimate copy of m$?
>
>Are you seriously suggesting programmers' time should be spent on a
>minor proprietary format comment feature instead of improving software
>QA for LO odf??? Astonishing.
>
>The following hyperlink shows high priority bugs already requiring
>resolution (especially regressions which are indicative of a failure
>in software QA):
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Useful_Queries
>
>Please review.
>
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>
>
>
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Pedro Pedro
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by nabbler
e-letter wrote
Are you seriously suggesting programmers' time should be spent on a
minor proprietary format comment feature instead of improving software
QA for LO odf??? Astonishing.
If LO would ignore compatibility with DOC then it would become an island (which only used the ODF file format). If documents can not move back and forward between people who use MSO and LO then people will stop using LO. It's as simple as that.

So, yes, LO programmers have to "waste" time to make DOC 100% compatible because you can be damn sure that MS will NOT make an effort to be 100% ODF compatible.

Just my 2 cents ;)
Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
I kinda agree with most of what Pedro says except that MS Office already is making an effort to be ODF compatible.  We are already beginning to have an impact on MS and need to make sure we push that further by using ODF more and more. 

MSO 2010 and 2007 use an ancient version of ODF that no-one else has used for new documents for many years but their MSO 2013 and 365 uses the current version that everyone else has been using since way before 2007. 


Note that if you do have documents that use the older version of ODT then those still work fine in current and probably future versions of LibreOffice, OpenOffice (and the rest).  The devs wrote a new patch a few months ago to bring all the older specs together in a much more streamlined way to make sure of that.  Also, just like the current spec, the older one is fully documented and was implemented exactly as written-up.  So, even in 30 or 40 years or longer it's highly likely to be able to get someone to quickly cobble together some sort of reader. 

Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: Pedro <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 11:25
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>e-letter wrote
>> Are you seriously suggesting programmers' time should be spent on a
>> minor proprietary format comment feature instead of improving software
>> QA for LO odf??? Astonishing.
>
>If LO would ignore compatibility with DOC then it would become an island
>(which only used the ODF file format). If documents can not move back and
>forward between people who use MSO and LO then people will stop using LO.
>It's as simple as that.
>
>So, yes, LO programmers have to "waste" time to make DOC 100% compatible
>because you can be damn sure that MS will NOT make an effort to be 100% ODF
>compatible.
>
>Just my 2 cents ;)
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/MS-file-compatibility-in-4-0-comments-in-doc-tp4069834p4069965.html
>Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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>
>
>
>
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Gordon Burgess-Parker Gordon Burgess-Parker
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

On 14/08/13 11:51, Tom Davies wrote:
> MSO 2013 and 365 uses the current version that everyone else has been using since way before 2007.  
>
>
>
And have they taken out the "bug" (cough cough) whereby if an ods
document is opened in MS Excel all the formulae are stripped out, just
leaving the last value instead?
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Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
I only accept odf or pdf documents by email


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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

Hi :)
Yes, that problem was only in 2010 and 2007 and was due to their pathetic attempts to use the older ODT (well specifically ods) format that no-one else was using much at that time because we had all moved on to the newer version.  Their 2013 and 365 uses the newer format so they don't suffer from that issue (apparently)
Regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: Gordon Burgess-Parker <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 12:07
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>On 14/08/13 11:51, Tom Davies wrote:
>> MSO 2013 and 365 uses the current version that everyone else has been using since way before 2007. 
>>
>>
>>
>And have they taken out the "bug" (cough cough) whereby if an ods
>document is opened in MS Excel all the formulae are stripped out, just
>leaving the last value instead?
>--
>
>Registered Linux User no 240308
>GBP's alternative computing: http://gbplinuxfoss.blogspot.com/ 
>Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
>I only accept odf or pdf documents by email
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>
>
>
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Gordon Burgess-Parker Gordon Burgess-Parker
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

On 14/08/13 12:16, Tom Davies wrote:

> Hi :)
> Yes, that problem was only in 2010 and 2007 and was due to their
> pathetic attempts to use the older ODT (well specifically ods) format
> that no-one else was using much at that time because we had all moved
> on to the newer version.  Their 2013 and 365 uses the newer format so
> they don't suffer from that issue (apparently)
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>

That's good to hear!
Cheers!

--

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GBP's alternative computing: http://gbplinuxfoss.blogspot.com/ 
Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
I only accept odf or pdf documents by email


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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by Gordon Burgess-Parker
On 2013-08-14 7:07 AM, Gordon Burgess-Parker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 14/08/13 11:51, Tom Davies wrote:
>> MSO 2013 and 365 uses the current version that everyone else has been using since way before 2007.

> And have they taken out the "bug" (cough cough) whereby if an ods
> document is opened in MS Excel all the formulae are stripped out, just
> leaving the last value instead?

Yes, I believe they have...

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Tanstaafl Tanstaafl
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by nabbler
On 2013-08-14 6:09 AM, e-letter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> the primary use of LO is to create and increase the quantity of odf
> documents, not to be a free m$ clone.

So says e-letter, the creator and primary author of
OpenOffice-Now-Libreoffice. all hail e-letter! (not)

> Why can't you afford to use a legitimate copy of m$?

Why can't you bite your tongue rather than post offensive replies to
people asking simple questions. Asshat.

> Are you seriously suggesting programmers' time should be spent on a
> minor proprietary format comment feature instead of improving software
> QA for LO odf??? Astonishing.

What is astonishing is how you can be so ridiculously obtuse.

Are you seriously suggesting that programmers shouldn't spend a little
time fixing minor issues that make everyone's use of the software more
pleasant.

What Libreoffice really needs is a very simple, and *separate*, bug
reporting page dedicated to one purpose - allowing users to submit
documents that have formatting problems - *both* OpenDoc formats *and*
Microsoft formats. Just a simple page where the user can upload the
document, and provide a description of the problem.

Then any bug triagers who are interested in improving document
formatting and compatibility issues could quickly find these
submissions, confirm (or deny) them (or request more information from
the submitter), then convert the ones that are reproducible to real
(confirmed) bugs for tracking by the devs.

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by Gordon Burgess-Parker
Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
> And have they taken out the "bug" (cough cough)

I thought that was a "feature".  At least it is if you listen to MS.  ;-)

BTW, don't forget about them making that year 1900 Excel bug an ISO
standard.

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by Tom
Tom Davies wrote:
> Yes, that problem was only in 2010 and 2007 and was due to their pathetic attempts to use the older ODT (well specifically ods) format that no-one else was using much at that time because we had all moved on to the newer version.  Their 2013 and 365 uses the newer format so they don't suffer from that issue (apparently)

Except, other apps using the older spec didn't do that.  It was an Excel
only feature.


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Urmas D. Urmas D.
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by James Knott
"James Knott":

> BTW, don't forget about them making that year 1900 Excel bug an ISO
> standard.

* Lotus 1900 bug.

Microsoft has introduced a 1904-system.



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Gordon Burgess-Parker Gordon Burgess-Parker
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by James Knott
On 14/08/13 13:28, James Knott wrote:
> Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
>> And have they taken out the "bug" (cough cough)
> I thought that was a "feature".  At least it is if you listen to MS.  ;-)
>
> BTW, don't forget about them making that year 1900 Excel bug an ISO
> standard.
>

ROTFLMAO!

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Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
I only accept odf or pdf documents by email


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Tom Tom
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Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc

In reply to this post by Urmas D.
Hi :)
And that 1904 thing is also non-standard, almost a bug, isn't it? 
regards from
Tom :) 





>________________________________
> From: Urmas <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 13:46
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS file compatibility in 4.0+ - comments in .doc
>
>
>"James Knott":
>
>> BTW, don't forget about them making that year 1900 Excel bug an ISO
>> standard.
>
>* Lotus 1900 bug.
>
>Microsoft has introduced a 1904-system.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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