Mac App Store

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Benjamin Horst Benjamin Horst
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Mac App Store

The Mac App Store launched today with over 1,000 applications: http://www.apple.com/mac/app-store/

Its purpose is similar to Linux package managers, but much more consumer focused, and I think it represents an enormous opportunity for LibO--how else can we be listed right alongside MS Office and Apple iWork in front of the eyes of millions of users? (Actually, I don't think MS Office is available there at all--so we could beat them to it!)

And users who don't want to open their wallets will naturally download LibO first to see if it works for them before buying something, which they might never come back to do.

Does anyone know the technical requirements needed to get into the Mac App Store? Are there any developers here who'd like to get involved in this process?

Strategically, I think the payoff will be huge.

-Ben

Benjamin Horst
[hidden email]
646-464-2314 (Eastern)
www.solidoffice.com


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vuhung vuhung
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Re: Mac App Store

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Benjamin Horst <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does anyone know the technical requirements needed to get into the Mac App Store?
> Are there any developers here who'd like to get involved in this process?
Here is the guidelines for submission to App Store
http://www.everythingicafe.com/apple-releases-mac-app-store-guidelines-and-devs-respond/2010/10/21/

And for iOS (iPhone and the like, FYI)
http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/appstoretips/

Technically, I would say LibO meets all (most?) the requirements needed.

Great idea.

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todd rme todd rme
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Re: Mac App Store

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Nguyen Vu Hung <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Benjamin Horst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Does anyone know the technical requirements needed to get into the Mac App Store?
>> Are there any developers here who'd like to get involved in this process?
> Here is the guidelines for submission to App Store
> http://www.everythingicafe.com/apple-releases-mac-app-store-guidelines-and-devs-respond/2010/10/21/
>
> And for iOS (iPhone and the like, FYI)
> http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/appstoretips/
>
> Technically, I would say LibO meets all (most?) the requirements needed.

I don't think it meets these:

- It duplicates apps already in the App Store, particularly if there
are many of them (iWork)
- It creates a store inside itself for selling or distributing other
software (extensions)
- It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed
(I thought this was a major goal of LibO)

And I don't know whether it meets this one:
- It has metadata that mentions the name of any other computer platform


I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
computer.

-Todd

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Mac App Store


On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
> computer.

Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit spreading such BS.


Larry
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todd rme todd rme
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Re: Mac App Store

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
>>
>> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
>> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
>> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
>> computer.
>
> Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
> spreading such BS.

They do if you are using an iPad (unless you have hacked it).

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Mac App Store


On 2011/01/06 11:05 PM  todd rme wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
>> spreading such BS.
> They do if you are using an iPad (unless you have hacked it).

As I said, Apple does not control what software is installed on my, or any other, computer. OS
X allows software to be installed from any source, not just from the Mac App Store.


Larry
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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Mac App Store

Someone also mentioned there are issues with GPL licensing that Apple
doesn't seem to like :-/

On 1/7/11 6:49 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

>
> On 2011/01/06 11:05 PM  todd rme wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Larry
>> Gusaas<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
>>> spreading such BS.
>> They do if you are using an iPad (unless you have hacked it).
>
> As I said, Apple does not control what software is installed on my, or
> any other, computer. OS X allows software to be installed from any
> source, not just from the Mac App Store.
>
>
> Larry


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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Mac App Store

On 2011/01/07 12:57 AM  Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Someone also mentioned there are issues with GPL licensing that Apple doesn't seem to like :-/

And the license has nothing to do with an application installing on a Mac computer. I have
several GPL and LGPL licensed applications installed.

Larry
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vuhung vuhung
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by todd rme
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:57 PM, todd rme <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> And for iOS (iPhone and the like, FYI)
>> http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/appstoretips/
>>
>> Technically, I would say LibO meets all (most?) the requirements needed.
>
> I don't think it meets these:
>
> - It duplicates apps already in the App Store, particularly if there
> are many of them (iWork)
IMO, LibO and iWork overlap each other in many facets but not a duplication.
Well, however, Apple may think so :)

> - It creates a store inside itself for selling or distributing other
> software (extensions)
I think you get it wrong. By "create a store", it means that, you can't
make an app that users can browse books and buy them within the app,
for example.

> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed
> (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)
If we mean xcode as an IDE, then libO seems not to meet the requirement.
However, if we consider xcode as a compiler (xcodebuid, gcc), libO will
be OK (but this is tricky)


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Uwe Altmann Uwe Altmann
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by todd rme
Am 07.01.11 04:57, schrieb todd rme:

> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed
> (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)

It /is/ "packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging technologies" as
far as the Mac Version of OOo is concerned - it's a *.dmg file
containing an *.app folder, which his a common way of installing
programs on a Mac.

NeoOffice is listed since years in the download area of apple.com so
this can not be that problematic.
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OpenOffice.org - auch auf dem Mac!

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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Mac App Store

Would we do something with LO, or would there be GPL licensing issues?

On 01/07/2011 10:04 AM, Uwe Altmann wrote:

> Am 07.01.11 04:57, schrieb todd rme:
>
>> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
>> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed
>> (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)
> It /is/ "packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging technologies" as
> far as the Mac Version of OOo is concerned - it's a *.dmg file
> containing an *.app folder, which his a common way of installing
> programs on a Mac.
>
> NeoOffice is listed since years in the download area of apple.com so
> this can not be that problematic.


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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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Re: Mac App Store

Jonathan,

I believe there are some specific legal issues that are related to FOSS
licences, but we do need to investigate some more (help is welcome).

Best,
Charles.

Le Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:41:52 +0100,
Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Would we do something with LO, or would there be GPL licensing issues?
>
> On 01/07/2011 10:04 AM, Uwe Altmann wrote:
> > Am 07.01.11 04:57, schrieb todd rme:
> >
> >> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
> >> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are
> >> allowed (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)
> > It /is/ "packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
> > technologies" as far as the Mac Version of OOo is concerned - it's
> > a *.dmg file containing an *.app folder, which his a common way of
> > installing programs on a Mac.
> >
> > NeoOffice is listed since years in the download area of apple.com so
> > this can not be that problematic.
>
>



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Fabián Rodríguez-3 Fabián Rodríguez-3
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by todd rme
On 11-01-06 10:57 PM, todd rme wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Nguyen Vu Hung <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Benjamin Horst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Does anyone know the technical requirements needed to get into the Mac App Store?
>>> Are there any developers here who'd like to get involved in this process?
>> Here is the guidelines for submission to App Store
>> http://www.everythingicafe.com/apple-releases-mac-app-store-guidelines-and-devs-respond/2010/10/21/
>>
>> And for iOS (iPhone and the like, FYI)
>> http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/appstoretips/
>>
>> Technically, I would say LibO meets all (most?) the requirements needed.
> I don't think it meets these:
>
> - It duplicates apps already in the App Store, particularly if there
> are many of them (iWork)
> - It creates a store inside itself for selling or distributing other
> software (extensions)
> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are allowed
> (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)
>
> And I don't know whether it meets this one:
> - It has metadata that mentions the name of any other computer platform
>
>
> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
> computer.
>
> -Todd
>
Define "People" ? :)

The FSF has several ongoing campaigns educating about the problems such
restrictions bring. Some posts on their blog provide an example for free
software subsmissions to their App Store:
http://www.fsf.org/search?SearchableText=app%20store

Before technical requirements, there are legal requirements. I know the
App Store terms have changed a few times in the past months, add that to
the check list.

In the event that LibreOffice would pass all technical & legal
requirements I'd suggest charging (more than $1) for the convenience.
Anyone else will know where to find it outside of the store. I presented
on exactly this topic (business models for free software distribution on
an "app store") for the Android Marketplace yesterday, I'll gladly
provide some pointers when/if it's deemed appropriate. I hardly an
expert but I have an idea or two.

Cheers,

Fabian

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Benjamin Horst Benjamin Horst
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by Charles-H. Schulz
Anecdotal evidence of the impact of being listed in the app store--yesterday, Evernote tweeted their installation rate increased 1,800% from the day before the Mac App Store launched.

Ben

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2011, at 6:01 AM, "Charles-H. Schulz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> I believe there are some specific legal issues that are related to FOSS
> licences, but we do need to investigate some more (help is welcome).
>
> Best,
> Charles.
>
> Le Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:41:52 +0100,
> Jonathan Aquilina <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> Would we do something with LO, or would there be GPL licensing issues?
>>
>> On 01/07/2011 10:04 AM, Uwe Altmann wrote:
>>> Am 07.01.11 04:57, schrieb todd rme:
>>>
>>>> - It is not packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
>>>> technologies included in Xcode – No third party installers are
>>>> allowed (I thought this was a major goal of LibO)
>>> It /is/ "packaged and submitted using Apple’s packaging
>>> technologies" as far as the Mac Version of OOo is concerned - it's
>>> a *.dmg file containing an *.app folder, which his a common way of
>>> installing programs on a Mac.
>>>
>>> NeoOffice is listed since years in the download area of apple.com so
>>> this can not be that problematic.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Charles-H. Schulz
> Membre du Comité exécutif
> The Document Foundation.
>
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Fabián Rodríguez-3 Fabián Rodríguez-3
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by Larry Gusaas
On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:

>
> On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
>> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
>> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
>> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
>> computer.
>
> Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
> spreading such BS.
>
>
> Larry

You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates,
which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not).
IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just
like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For
all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to
remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a "security upgrade". I am not
going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is
almost guaranteed to fail.

Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore,
just look at NeoOffice's take on it:
http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8290&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO).

Cheers,

Fabian

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Ian Lynch Ian Lynch
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Re: Mac App Store

2011/1/7 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

> On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> >
> > On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
> >> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
> >> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
> >> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
> >> computer.
> >
> > Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
> > spreading such BS.
> >
> >
> > Larry
>
> You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates,
> which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not).
> IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just
> like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For
> all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to
> remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a "security upgrade". I am not
> going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is
> almost guaranteed to fail.
>
> Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore,
> just look at NeoOffice's take on it:
>
> http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8290&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
>
> Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabian
>

To be honest I too have found it really strange that so many FOSS advocates
are Apple advocates. Let's face it if Apple had established the monopoly
that Wintel had it would have been worse. Systems more closed and even all
the hardware would have been locked into Apple. Ok, all big commercial
interests are going to be self-serving but at least let's be consistent with
the attitudes :-)

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Larry Gusaas Larry Gusaas
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by Fabián Rodríguez-3

On 2011/01/07 9:38 AM  Fabián Rodríguez wrote:
> You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates,
> which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not).
> IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just
> like iPhone and iPad (which*for now*  are bypassed with Cydia..).

Your unsubstantiated idle speculation is pure FUD.

Larry
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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by Fabián Rodríguez-3
Hi everyone,

2011/1/7 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

> On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> >
> > On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
> >> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
> >> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
> >> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
> >> computer.
> >
> > Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
> > spreading such BS.
> >
> >
> > Larry
>
> You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates,
> which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not).
> IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just
> like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For
> all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to
> remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a "security upgrade". I am not
> going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is
> almost guaranteed to fail.
>

I disagree. If LibreOffice is in the App Store, then it means that many more
people will see, download, and use LibreOffice (don't forget that
LibreOffice is still unknown to a vast majority of the world). Even if
LibreOffice is in the App Store for a little while, it will still make a
difference.

As for the ethics question, I'd say adding LibreOffice to the App Store is
just as ethical as having a LibreOffice version for Windows. It's not that
LibreOffice wants to support Microsoft's platform or devalue the Linux
platform, but rather that having a Windows version of LibO puts the suite
into the hands of more people. The App Store would do the same thing -- put
LibO into the hands of more people.


> Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore,
> just look at NeoOffice's take on it:
>
> http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8290&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
>
>
"1. NeoOffice uses Java so it is very likely to be rejected since Apple has
publicly stated that they will not approve Java applications for the App
Store"
This is the only major problem I see. On the other hand, I heard LibO wants
to phase out Java (and I hope it does), so hopefully this is just a
temporary problem.

"2. There is no ability for patching that I can see so patches would still
need to be done the existing way"
What's wrong with the existing way?

"3. There is no optional donation support that I can see and even if there
is, Apple takes a 30% cut"
The same goes for all the software centers in Linux, I believe (although I
know Ubuntu Software Center has a donation button in plans). But hey, the
more people learn about LibreOffice, the more people will visit its website
and donate. More users means more donations.

Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO).


> Cheers,
>
> Fabian
>
> --
> LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca
> de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/
> ~
> Fabián Rodríguez
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab
>
>
>
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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Mac App Store

I agree totally with you on the first part of your response Mirek.

On 1/7/11 7:34 PM, Mirek M. wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> 2011/1/7 Fabián Rodríguez<[hidden email]>
>
>> On 11-01-06 11:16 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
>>> On 2011/01/06 9:57 PM  todd rme wrote:
>>>> I do find it bizarre that people are so up in arms about OOXML but
>>>> seem to have no complaints with Apple's blatant attempts to have total
>>>> control over the software you are allowed to install on your own
>>>> computer.
>>> Apple does not control what software I install on my computer. Quit
>>> spreading such BS.
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry
>> You're right, at least for now. Apple controls its OS and its updates,
>> which effectively can control which apps go on your computer (or not).
>> IMO, it's only a matter of time before such restrictions happen, just
>> like iPhone and iPad (which *for now* are bypassed with Cydia..). For
>> all the effort this may take, at some point Apple may well decide to
>> remove LibreOffice or break it as part of a "security upgrade". I am not
>> going into that discussion as even passing the App Store requirements is
>> almost guaranteed to fail.
>>
> I disagree. If LibreOffice is in the App Store, then it means that many more
> people will see, download, and use LibreOffice (don't forget that
> LibreOffice is still unknown to a vast majority of the world). Even if
> LibreOffice is in the App Store for a little while, it will still make a
> difference.
>
> As for the ethics question, I'd say adding LibreOffice to the App Store is
> just as ethical as having a LibreOffice version for Windows. It's not that
> LibreOffice wants to support Microsoft's platform or devalue the Linux
> platform, but rather that having a Windows version of LibO puts the suite
> into the hands of more people. The App Store would do the same thing -- put
> LibO into the hands of more people.
>
>
>> Back to the initial suggestion of adding LibreOffice to the AppStore,
>> just look at NeoOffice's take on it:
>>
>> http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8290&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
>>
>>
> "1. NeoOffice uses Java so it is very likely to be rejected since Apple has
> publicly stated that they will not approve Java applications for the App
> Store"
> This is the only major problem I see. On the other hand, I heard LibO wants
> to phase out Java (and I hope it does), so hopefully this is just a
> temporary problem.
>
> "2. There is no ability for patching that I can see so patches would still
> need to be done the existing way"
> What's wrong with the existing way?
>
> "3. There is no optional donation support that I can see and even if there
> is, Apple takes a 30% cut"
> The same goes for all the software centers in Linux, I believe (although I
> know Ubuntu Software Center has a donation button in plans). But hey, the
> more people learn about LibreOffice, the more people will visit its website
> and donate. More users means more donations.
>
> Not much point in wasting any more time on this (again, IMO).
>
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Fabian
>>
>> --
>> LibreOffice questions ? Des questions sur LibreOffice ? Preguntas acerca
>> de LibreOffice ? Ask LibreOffice: http://libreoffice.shapado.com/
>> ~
>> Fabián Rodríguez
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab
>>
>>
>>
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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Mac App Store

In reply to this post by Larry Gusaas
I was told there is an issue with mac and the GPL and LGPL licensing.
not sure what exactly though.

On 1/7/11 8:26 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> On 2011/01/07 12:57 AM  Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>> Someone also mentioned there are issues with GPL licensing that Apple
>> doesn't seem to like :-/
>
> And the license has nothing to do with an application installing on a
> Mac computer. I have several GPL and LGPL licensed applications
> installed.
>
> Larry


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