Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-11-26

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Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-11-26

* Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Stuart
 
* Completed Action Items:
 
    + Kendy: Sidebar - hide the decks, but keep the sidebar (only the
      icons) there.
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85935
      + added to release notes
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for images.zip layering (if it does not
      exist yet)
        + Did it myself in the end, it was not that easy Easy Hack
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for downloading additional themes?
        + Not really suitable for an Easy Hack either :-(
        + but this could help (in the long run):
          http://jriddell.org/2014/11/23/junior-job-breeze-icon-theme-for-libreoffice/
     + Jay: Close bug 86302 as wontfix
     + Jay: Move the Impress & Calc 'Header and Footer' entries to
       Insert menu to be consistent
 
* Pending Action Items:
 
    + Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to
      sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog)
      https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13085/ - proof of concept,
      thanks to the hackfest :-)
    + Kendy: Adjust alignment and spacing in line spacing drop down
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83076#c11
    + Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like
      View -> Sidebar toggle
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85937
    + Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the
      Track changes toolbar when there are tracking changes
    + Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently
    + Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size
      setting
    + Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be
      duplicated in Draw and Impress
        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258#c2
    + Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the
      various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
        + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas
          [styles previews in the sidebar etc.]
        + Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
          https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
          [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
    + Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt.
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48622
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
    + Hide the decks but keep the sidebar (only the icons) there (Kendy)
        + opens in Calc in master, but not in 4.4
        + should be done for 4.4 too, as some icons were removed from
          the toolbar that are in sidebar only
AI          + enable Calc too
    + Image themes layering - the themes do not need to contain all the
      icons any more (Kendy)
        + saves installation image size
        + could be folded to Tango
    + Icons are being added but slowly due to long waitings on gerrit
      (Jay)
AI      + push access for Jay (Kendy)
 
* Last week's discussions that need a resolution:
 
    + Shrinking the size of the context menu in Impress (Jay, Cor)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86614
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=109889
        + we have just to many of them (Jay)
            + does not even fit the screen - 24 entries!
        + some are duplicated in the toolbar (Jay)
        + smaller context menu preferred (Jay)
            + we can do submenus, etc.
        + do we have some indications of that in the 2009 data? (Kendy)
            + will check (Jay)
            + some of that in the sidebar too (Jay)
            + unfortunately we do not have separate stats for images and
              objects (Jay)
        + caution needed - we are still introducing the sidebar, need to
          make the users comfortable (Stuart)
            + challenge here - not to make users angry :-) (Stuart)
            + better to make functionality easier than document wrong
              behavior (Heiko)
                + would be good to have a guideline (Heiko)
                + so far used: if it is in the toolbar, then don't put
                  it to Context menu (Jay)
                + not that easy unfortunately - for some of the
                  operations, the users should not move the mouse (Heiko)
                + but toolbar should not contain all the functionality -
                  only menu is for everything (Heiko)
            + happy with the Jay's approach (Heiko)
            + yes, would be a good thing to have guideline, agree with
              Heiko (Jay)
                + will start putting together points (Cor, Heiko, Jay)
                + please do not do it heavy-weight (Kendy)
                    + do not want to see it used as a weapon ;-) (Kendy)
                    + create a guideline that always allows you to go
                      ahead :D (Cor)
                + Heiko did these for KDE:
                    + https://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Usability/HIG/ContextMenu
        + conclusion: Go ahead with the changes, but carefully
            + check the stats from the 2009, consult the heavy Impress
              users
 
    + Moving 'Table Boundaries' to the View menu (Jay, Cor)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86647
        + hard to measure this :-) (Kendy)
        + the View menu contains other settings like these, looks
          logical to move this one there too (Kendy)
        + agree that it is similar as the View items (Cor)
            + but we have a specific menu for Table (Cor)
        + new users: when they see it in Table menu, they consider that
          as a property of tables (Jay)
            + when you click it, by default it looks like doing nothing
              (because you have the borders for tables normally) (Jay)
            + in View, it is clearer that it affects just the view, not
              the table content (Jay)
        + would the menu a bit more balanced (Kendy)
        + let's do the change in master, and if we see complains, let's
          revert (Kendy)
            + I would not change unless there is a clear need, enough
              changes and to document and explain..(Cor)
            + concerned, but acceptable (Cor)
 
* UX-advise fdo#80670, Left arrow moves to previous cell when trying to
  edit (Stuart)

    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80670
    + think it should be closed as wontfix, as most apps do the same
      thing (Jay)
        + +1 (Cor)
        + agreed (Kendy)
        + function that we always had, not justified for change (Stuart)
    + what is exactly the reason? (Heiko)
        + people typing in lots and lots of data, power users (Kendy)
AI  + conclusion: close as wontfix (Stuart)

* Calc survey results published (Heiko, Jay)
 
    + http://user-prompt.com/results-of-survey-about-libreoffice-calcs-toolbar-configuration/
    + question in the comments: why the formula (tool)bar is not
      moveable?
        + it was never converted from a hard-coded toolbar to a floating
          one (Kendy)
        + no real reason to change - it can be hidden and has different
          functionality (Cor)
        + but we won't block a code contribution to change it to a
         'normal' toolbar (Kendy)
        + reply on blog post written
 
* Icon Updates / Issues
 
    + Conflicts in master
        + caused by running optipng on the icons (Kendy)
        + just push your versions
 
    + Sifr script to generate the icons automatically (Kendy)
        + sent the info to Alex
           + worked
           + best to have it in the GitHub icon repo (Alex)
               + done (Alex)
               
    + Experiment: full SVG icon theme (Kendy)
        + did not work that well
        + converting through Inkscape is still the way to go (Kendy)
 
    + Hi-contrast Sifr? (Jay)
AI      + code for that is not done yet - do an Easy Hack (Kendy)
 
    + New lc conditional formatting icons
        + https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12598822/conditional-formatting.png
        + Need to choose the most fitting ones
        + Should the future drop down use scor lc icons?
            + probably sc -> no need for a .ui file
 
    + Gnome 2.20 style 'a' icons & Gnome 3 style text line icons
AI      + didn't get around to do it (Alex)
        + strike-through still need an update (Jay)
            + re-exporting with the shadow [half of what is in Gnome] (Jay)
 
    + Breeze
        + https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=123517
        + Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell)
          https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/LibreOffice_Breeze
        + Consider sidebar icons as well (prosmaninho)
        + interesting bug - when the Breeze icon is disabled, it is
          barely visible (Jay)
 
    + Numix designed symbolic icons (Jay)
        + spoke with the lead designer and he (and possibly his team)
          would possibly be interested in do it
 
    + Dark themes (Heiko)
        + Several issues with dark themes
          https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86472
        + providing a default theme with icon sets, primarily symbolic
          ones (Jay)
AI      + find where these icons are defined, and tell Jay (Kendy)
 
* Single toolbar mode (Jay)
 
    + Simple toolbar inspired by Google Docs
      http://i.imgur.com/Hfn5bw1.png
        + ah, the idea to provide simple sub-sets of features in toolbar
          and menubar (Cor)
        + +1 +1 +1 :)  PROVIDED there is a simple on/off for that
          presentation, and not default (Cor)
            + heard that idea before (Cor)
    + a question of vision (Heiko)
        + is LibreOffice more a tool for experts who want everything, or
          new users with limited needs (Heiko)
    + for lots of people, less is more (Jay)
        + usecase: writer that wants just to type text (Jay)
        + we have the standard design, but can provide the functionality
          for others too (Jay)
    + marketing point of view: possible to tweak your UI (Cor)
        + to do a 'competition', and put that into one of more
          extensions? (sort of easy) (Cor)
    + don't really want to compete with Google's approach (Heiko)
        + LibreOffice is a powerful package; we should define our
          position (Heiko)
    + not dumb down the LibreOffice overall, just possibility to have
      that (Cor)
        + would love to have a simplified tool for toolbar editing (Heiko)
    + it is important how you present that (Cor, Heiko)
    + overall an interesting idea, easy to implement from the technical
      point of view (Kendy)
        + let's think through that a bit until the next meeting
 
* Global shortcuts not appearing in menus (Jay)
 
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85978
    + no idea (Kendy)
 
* Impress survey (Jay, Heiko)
 
   + Proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HlcEpH_87y5rRtXt7c-ukWo9Tw64gtcNDSO8dguMhPs
   + issue with translation to Chinese :-) (Heiko)
   + will start the survey on Friday (Heiko, Jay)
       + please look & comment if you want to make changes
 
* Underlined letters in drop downs not working (Jay)
 
    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86678
    + remove lines under letters (Kendy)
 
* Praises coming in for the design team (Jay)
 
    + "The design devs did the most work ever for the 4.4 release
      because some blockades were finally broken down and they have
      a new communication tool where to organize their work."
      http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/libreoffice-4-3-4-arrives-bundle-bug-fixes#comment-1699288845
    + great work, guys, thank you! :-) (Kendy)


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