Minutes technical group call

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Michael Meeks Michael Meeks
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Minutes technical group call

Thanks to Thorsten for taking the minutes, of the call last Thursday:

Attending: Thorsten, Norbert, Fridrich, Caolan, Kendy, Rene, Petr, Andre, Michael

* BrOffice branding
        + NSIS not designed for run-time pluggable branding, needs
          hacking on NSIS - not possible for Beta3, scheduled for RC
                + Kendy optimistic wrt. NSIS hacking, Fridrich less so.
        + Rene - concerned wrt. start-center per-lang switching
                + Michael - the code is pushed & working
                + Petr - just pushed the updated/split BrOffice
                  branding, so start-center should work too
        + naming of broffice...exe downloadable
                + can achieve with a symlink - Petr
                + avoid at all costs per-language installers - Michael
                        + excessive build / mirror / delay problems

* Mechtilde's migration issue
        + misc. code simplification and 3.0 migration enabled - Michael
        + UI will miss 3.3 - but general idea is great: will improve
          robustness on failed migrations as well
AA: + Michael working on it

* on-line Help download
        + in extremis can have a link on the wiki, to offer help download
        + are tooltips in help - Caolan ?
                + yeah, extended tooltips are in help
                + these are helpful one or two sentences of
                  what it's doing. internally the description
                  is in the help files - Andre
                + loosing it acceptable, if no crashes - Andre
AA: + work ongoing

* Win32 size reduction status
        + how much do we loose ?
        + did we take the English help out ?
AA: + still building - Fridrich

* L10n
        + additional libreoffice strings, waiting for string freeze, get PO
          files, then you translate this. need a date.
        + some teams have asked to update the sdf files - in theory Andre
          has commit access, but at the moment not able to build sdf files,
          such that they are similar to the ones in the repo. Andre is
          referring to the big ones inside l10n module. don't know what
          templates have been used there - cannot build an sdf file that's
          similar to the ones from OOo
                + need to grok existing tooling (Fridrich / Petr)
        + 4 south african langs, by friedel wolf and dwaine - five langs.
          Could be manageable, but would need to live with a huge diff.
          - l10n has huge diffs anyway - let's not be too worried
AA: + Petr to review / merge / approve
        + diff size not a huge issue - we get rid of sdf files post 3.3
        + we will keep the history in another repo & start over (Kendy)

* comprehensive credits
        + great work from Sebastian
        + we should ship as a .doc, just like the license file
AA: + Thorsten to add menu entry

* The Roberto Gallopini blog:
        + if we follow what he proposes, we don't move anywhere
AA: + need to address the FUD (Norbert to interact)

* QA processes
  - Andre - Sophie is doing stuff, some people at the German team,
    setting up test cases
  - for release testing, we can do the stuff in the wiki
  - we need more detailed bug reporting and tracking
  - Norbert: if someone found a bug - is it critical? how can I get
    at the list of bugs, if I have spare cycles, how can I get the
    criticial bugs?
  - Andre: track urgent bugs
  - Michael: thus far not submitted our blockers as bugs to save time,
    but we should fix that going forward.
  - Andre: teach people to submit bugs, and then treat it with the
    right priority. Sophie should be able to do that. We have people
    that can submit bugs, and can assess how important the bug is
  - Kendy: set up separate meeting for QA people
  - Andre: will find a set of people, then let's have a meeting

* Tinderbox bits
        * tinderbox on other platform than Linux? - Norbert ?
        * Fridrich: yeah, plan to have one on Win32
                * Norbert: can we have a feature branch built by a tinderbox?
        * Kendy: please look into the tinbuild script - should be easily
          hackable
        * Norbert: I really want this for win32
        * Fridrich: have a machine from Laurent, for win32. Make two users,
          one running tinderbox, one running buildbot - should be possible to
          make on-demand builds there
        * Norbert may be able to offer a mac tinderbox, does bisection work?
        * Kendy: kinda - you have to guess which repo it may be
        * Norbert: but then, the build may break, because of other dirs have
           wrong code then?
        * Kendy: I kept building locally, that avoids the problem (mostly)

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Rene Engelhard Rene Engelhard
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Re: Minutes technical group call

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 02:01:50PM +0000, Michael Meeks wrote:
> Thanks to Thorsten for taking the minutes, of the call last Thursday:
> + Rene - concerned wrt. start-center per-lang switching
> + Michael - the code is pushed & working
> + Petr - just pushed the updated/split BrOffice
>  branding, so start-center should work too

FSVO of work. I said that you get the wrong branding in the wrong product
sometimes, and that still is the case (though it's quite minor):

LibreOffice install:
        LANG="something except pt_BR" -> everything LibreOffice branded
        LANG="pt_BR" -> Splash, Title bar and everything else LibreOffice
                        *except+ Startcenter image

BrOffice.org install[1]:
        LANG="something except pt_BR" -> title etc. BrOffice.org *except*
                                         Startcenter image
        LANG="pt_RB" -> everything BrOffice.org branded

am i the only one which finds this weird?

My other point was that LANG="pt_BR" doesn't necessarily mean people
wanting BrOffice. what for people here in Europe? Wanting a pt_BR-translated
LibO and nothing else?

Grüße/Regards,

René

[1] implemented by diverting files away and exchangin them with BrOffice
counterparts.
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Jonathan Aquilina Jonathan Aquilina
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Re: Minutes technical group call

hey guys i noticed you guys are looking to shrink the download size of windows installer download.

1) help should stay where it is.

2) are there any language packs included with libreoffice yet?

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Rene Engelhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 02:01:50PM +0000, Michael Meeks wrote:
> Thanks to Thorsten for taking the minutes, of the call last Thursday:
>       + Rene - concerned wrt. start-center per-lang switching
>               + Michael - the code is pushed & working
>               + Petr - just pushed the updated/split BrOffice
>                 branding, so start-center should work too

FSVO of work. I said that you get the wrong branding in the wrong product
sometimes, and that still is the case (though it's quite minor):

LibreOffice install:
       LANG="something except pt_BR" -> everything LibreOffice branded
       LANG="pt_BR" -> Splash, Title bar and everything else LibreOffice
                       *except+ Startcenter image

BrOffice.org install[1]:
       LANG="something except pt_BR" -> title etc. BrOffice.org *except*
                                        Startcenter image
       LANG="pt_RB" -> everything BrOffice.org branded

am i the only one which finds this weird?

My other point was that LANG="pt_BR" doesn't necessarily mean people
wanting BrOffice. what for people here in Europe? Wanting a pt_BR-translated
LibO and nothing else?

Grüße/Regards,

René

[1] implemented by diverting files away and exchangin them with BrOffice
counterparts.
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André Schnabel André Schnabel
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Re: Minutes technical group call

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks
Hi,

short update ...

Am 11.11.2010 15:01, schrieb Michael Meeks:
> * L10n
> + additional libreoffice strings, waiting for string freeze, get PO
>  files, then you translate this. need a date.

We will hopefully have "tomorrow" as date (l10n list has already been
notified).

> + some teams have asked to update the sdf files - in theory Andre
>  has commit access, but at the moment not able to build sdf files,
>  such that they are similar to the ones in the repo. Andre is
>  referring to the big ones inside l10n module. don't know what
>  templates have been used there - cannot build an sdf file that's
>  similar to the ones from OOo
> + need to grok existing tooling (Fridrich / Petr)

Petr did provide some tooling, and ..

> + 4 south african langs, by friedel wolf and dwaine - five langs.

I processed those languages (with Petr's help). So in case there are
more requests, either me or Petr can handle these requests (but it's
manual work at the moment). It's not to complicated, so other people can
help as well.

regards,

André


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Andras Timar Andras Timar
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Re: Minutes technical group call

2010/11/11 André Schnabel <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> short update ...
>
> Am 11.11.2010 15:01, schrieb Michael Meeks:
>>
>> * L10n
>>        + additional libreoffice strings, waiting for string freeze, get PO
>>          files, then you translate this. need a date.
>
> We will hopefully have "tomorrow" as date (l10n list has already been
> notified).
>
>>        + some teams have asked to update the sdf files - in theory Andre
>>          has commit access, but at the moment not able to build sdf files,
>>          such that they are similar to the ones in the repo. Andre is
>>          referring to the big ones inside l10n module. don't know what
>>          templates have been used there - cannot build an sdf file that's
>>          similar to the ones from OOo
>>                + need to grok existing tooling (Fridrich / Petr)
>
> Petr did provide some tooling, and ..

I wrote two scripts: extractfix.pl and mergefix.pl
http://ftp.fsf.hu/LibreOffice/extractfix.pl
http://ftp.fsf.hu/LibreOffice/mergefix.pl

extractfix.pl extracts only new and changed lines from an updated sdf file
mergefix.pl merges the result of extractfix.pl into the original sdf
in order to have a minimal diff.

I tested these tools successfully on the Breton file that the
translator submitted on the other day to the l10n list. (I'll commit
the changes later.)

Best regards,
Andras
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Michael Meeks Michael Meeks
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l10n plan ...

In reply to this post by Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Jonathan,

On Thu, 2010-11-11 at 15:51 +0100, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> hey guys i noticed you guys are looking to shrink the download size of
> windows installer download.

        Yes; we are. You arrive however in the middle of a very long discussion
- one summary of which is here:

        http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/build/tree/doc/l10n.txt

        We are executing on that; perhaps for future versions we can do
something else - but there are many requirements, and stake holders in
the discussion.

        HTH,

                Michael.

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Andrea Pescetti Andrea Pescetti
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Re: Minutes technical group call

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks
On 11/11/2010 Michael Meeks wrote:
> * comprehensive credits
> + great work from Sebastian
> + we should ship as a .doc, just like the license file

Is this a typo, or you really mean a .doc file in the old Microsoft Word
format?

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
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Re: Minutes technical group call

Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Is this a typo, or you really mean a .doc file in the old Microsoft Word
> format?
>
Nah, should have been .odt - like the license file. Good catch! ;)

-- Thorsten

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Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Minutes technical group call

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks
Hi,

I assume there has been discussion on the topic below, but to add:

Michael Meeks wrote (11-11-10 15:01)

> + avoid at all costs per-language installers - Michael
> + excessive build / mirror / delay problems


> * on-line Help download
> + in extremis can have a link on the wiki, to offer help download


> + yeah, extended tooltips are in help
> + these are helpful one or two sentences of
>  what it's doing. internally the description
>  is in the help files - Andre
> + loosing it acceptable, if no crashes - Andre


What is presented by e.g. Ubuntu installer is quite useful, for as far I
can judge (no idea if it is true for all languages)

- Installer offers my native language
- During installation, installing/downloading full language support is
added (and fall back to do it later, in case there is no internet
connection at that moment)

On top of that, we can also add the choice to download install full
Help, including extended Help tips.

Note: for distribution via CDRom, and maybe also via the distro's, full
installation including translation and Help is most appropriate IMO. Not
all on our planet have easy access to fast internet.

Ciao - Cor
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