Multilingual LibreOffice website

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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Multilingual LibreOffice website

Thanks to the huge international community around The Document Foundation,
numerous volunteers (and non-) work to maintain a version of the LibreOffice
website in their own language. Especially, when these are kept up-to-date,
these versions should be promoted, maybe not as substitutes for the official
English website but as local complementary resources. It could also be that,
for a user, knowing that there are other people talking his own language in
the community might lead him to more motivation than seeing the community as
a group of English-speaking individuals. This consideration is especially
valid as work is being carried out to have more volunteers on board.

Thus, to promote the different versions of the LibreOffice website better,
it is being proposed to add a small notification bar on top of the menu to
hint the user about the availability of a local version of the website. This
mailing post is being submitted to call for feedback about this addition to
the LibreOffice website before asking administrators to implement it on the
official website.

If you want to see what is the output of the proposal, please visit
newdesign.libreoffice.org. On top of the green menu bar, there should be a
black banner with some text on it. The actual proposal is that the banner is
seen only by those who have set a primary language other than English (US)
in their browser. However, to allow testing, this has been overridden to
show up always. (Please note that those who have English (US) set as their
browser's primary language will see incomplete text - This is expected.)

As a call to action, the community is being asked to give its feedback about
the proposal. Feel free to comment about the output or report any bugs you
might encounter.

Thank you.  



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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Hi Jean,

On 13/08/2018 15:15, Jean Spiteri wrote:
>
> If you want to see what is the output of the proposal, please visit
> newdesign.libreoffice.org. On top of the green menu bar, there should be a
> black banner with some text on it. The actual proposal is that the banner is
> seen only by those who have set a primary language other than English (US)
> in their browser.

Thanks for looking into this! Yes, I totally agree that we need to make
the other language sites more prominent. We often get emails to info@
from non-English speakers who try their best to give feedback or ask
questions, but don't know that there's a whole LibreOffice site in their
language.

I think the banner is OK, but it does push the rest of the content down
a bit. Is there any way to add a "Dismiss" button so that it's not shown
again to people who don't want to change?

Another alternative would be to have an extra menu on the right-hand
side, after donate, with a UK/USA flag for the English site. This would
keep it nice and small, and could have other flags in the drop-down list
underneath. Not sure how easy that is to implement, though!

Cheers,
Mike

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sophie sophie
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Hi Mike,

Just on one point,
Le 13/08/2018 à 16:02, Mike Saunders a écrit :

> Hi Jean,
>
> On 13/08/2018 15:15, Jean Spiteri wrote:
>>
>> If you want to see what is the output of the proposal, please visit
>> newdesign.libreoffice.org. On top of the green menu bar, there should be a
>> black banner with some text on it. The actual proposal is that the banner is
>> seen only by those who have set a primary language other than English (US)
>> in their browser.
>
> Thanks for looking into this! Yes, I totally agree that we need to make
> the other language sites more prominent. We often get emails to info@
> from non-English speakers who try their best to give feedback or ask
> questions, but don't know that there's a whole LibreOffice site in their
> language.
>
> I think the banner is OK, but it does push the rest of the content down
> a bit. Is there any way to add a "Dismiss" button so that it's not shown
> again to people who don't want to change?
>
> Another alternative would be to have an extra menu on the right-hand
> side, after donate, with a UK/USA flag for the English site. This would
> keep it nice and small, and could have other flags in the drop-down list
> underneath. Not sure how easy that is to implement, though!

I don't think we want to use flags as it's about countries and not
languages, we have always tried to avoid them as it could lead to some
issues.

Cheers
Sophie

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Mike Saunders Mike Saunders
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Hi Sophie,

On 13/08/2018 16:08, sophi wrote:
>
> I don't think we want to use flags as it's about countries and not
> languages, we have always tried to avoid them as it could lead to some
> issues.

Ah yes, that's a very good point actually. One other option for a small
menu icon would be the Wikipedia mobile site approach:

https://i.imgur.com/MNBHqnj.png

That icon under the title opens up a list of languages. But maybe it's
familiar to regular Wikipedia users, but wouldn't be so effective on the
LibreOffice site for newcomers...

Mike

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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Mike Saunders
Mike Saunders wrote

> Hi Jean,
>
> Thanks for looking into this! Yes, I totally agree that we need to make
> the other language sites more prominent. We often get emails to info@
> from non-English speakers who try their best to give feedback or ask
> questions, but don't know that there's a whole LibreOffice site in their
> language.
>
> I think the banner is OK, but it does push the rest of the content down
> a bit. Is there any way to add a "Dismiss" button so that it's not shown
> again to people who don't want to change?

Yes, it pushes it down by a little bit (depending on the screen resolution).
The Dismiss button but to have it "stick", it would require a cookie and
after discussing with cloph, he did not want to set a cookie for it, in
light of recent data protection legislation.


Mike Saunders wrote
> Another alternative would be to have an extra menu on the right-hand
> side, after donate, with a UK/USA flag for the English site. This would
> keep it nice and small, and could have other flags in the drop-down list
> underneath. Not sure how easy that is to implement, though!

cloph also said that flags need to be avoided as sophi said. The drop down
list is in a way replaced by the 'Other languages' link which leads you to
the page where all of them are listed.





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Italo Vignoli-5 Italo Vignoli-5
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Jean Spiteri
On 13/08/2018 15:15, Jean Spiteri wrote:

> As a call to action, the community is being asked to give its feedback about
> the proposal. Feel free to comment about the output or report any bugs you
> might encounter.

Works for me, but the sentence in the dark grey banner should be in
Italian and not in English.

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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Mike Saunders
Mike Saunders wrote
> https://i.imgur.com/MNBHqnj.png
>
> That icon under the title opens up a list of languages. But maybe it's
> familiar to regular Wikipedia users, but wouldn't be so effective on the
> LibreOffice site for newcomers...

 

It could be good but I think that actually showing the user that there IS a
localisation rather than there MIGHT BE is a little more welcoming. People
from small languages might be more inclined to not consider it because there
language is small.



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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Italo Vignoli-5
Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
> Works for me, but the sentence in the dark grey banner should be in
> Italian and not in English.

That would require an effort to translate by numerous communities. However,
I (personally) would prefer having text in English as the rest of the text.
That is, if you mean the actual language of the text and not the community
name found in the sentence.





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Italo Vignoli-5 Italo Vignoli-5
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

On 13/08/2018 16:34, Jean Spiteri wrote:

> That would require an effort to translate by numerous communities. However,
> I (personally) would prefer having text in English as the rest of the text.
> That is, if you mean the actual language of the text and not the community
> name found in the sentence.

Unfortunately, there are countries like Italy where the average command
of English is below any acceptable level, and a vast majority of people
would just close the window because text is only in English (whatever
text). Anyway, it is already an improvement over the current situation.

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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
> Unfortunately, there are countries like Italy where the average command
> of English is below any acceptable level, and a vast majority of people
> would just close the window because text is only in English (whatever
> text). Anyway, it is already an improvement over the current situation.

I'm totally open for suggestions so if you think that a translated line is
needed, I'll check the possibilities of having it like that. Do you think
that changing 'here' to 'it.libreoffice.org' would motivate the person to
click on it (since there's IT in there). Or maybe link the text 'Italian
(Italy)' as well?




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Italo Vignoli-5 Italo Vignoli-5
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

On 13/08/2018 16:44, Jean Spiteri wrote:

> I'm totally open for suggestions so if you think that a translated line is
> needed, I'll check the possibilities of having it like that. Do you think
> that changing 'here' to 'it.libreoffice.org' would motivate the person to
> click on it (since there's IT in there). Or maybe link the text 'Italian
> (Italy)' as well?

Maybe yes, but I am just one Italian (rather fluent in English). We
should ask to more people. I could share the question with the Italian
community.

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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
> Maybe yes, but I am just one Italian (rather fluent in English). We
> should ask to more people. I could share the question with the Italian
> community.

Actually, I would have liked someone to cross post it to the l10n list (as a
whole) for more feedback but I'm not a subscriber to it.




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sophie sophie
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Hi Jean,
Le 13/08/2018 à 17:17, Jean Spiteri a écrit :
> Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
>> Maybe yes, but I am just one Italian (rather fluent in English). We
>> should ask to more people. I could share the question with the Italian
>> community.
>
> Actually, I would have liked someone to cross post it to the l10n list (as a
> whole) for more feedback but I'm not a subscriber to it.

I'll do it and let you know the feedback
Cheers
Sophie


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Daniel A. Rodriguez Daniel A. Rodriguez
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Jean Spiteri
This is a capture from main wordpress site
https://s33.postimg.cc/ggw8rzm6n/es-wordpress.png

In our case, we the spanish subsite admins try to avoid linguistic
nuances. That's why I think we should not use the country name
neither, for the case just 'Spanish' would work.

Just my two cents.




El lun., 13 ago. 2018 a las 12:17, Jean Spiteri
(<[hidden email]>) escribió:

>
> Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
> > Maybe yes, but I am just one Italian (rather fluent in English). We
> > should ask to more people. I could share the question with the Italian
> > community.
>
> Actually, I would have liked someone to cross post it to the l10n list (as a
> whole) for more feedback but I'm not a subscriber to it.
>
>
>
>
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Rhoslyn Prys-5 Rhoslyn Prys-5
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

I think there is a danger of over-estimating our audience's ability to
understand English. If possible, I'd prefer the invitation to be
localised, including language name but no flag or country name. Language
communities can be spread over many countries and continents.

Is the website set up for the language preference in the browser? When I
type in libreoffice in my search engine I get the English website rather
than the Welsh one - my browser preference language.

Rhos

Ar 13/08/2018 19:30, ysgrifennodd Daniel A. Rodriguez:

> This is a capture from main wordpress site
> https://s33.postimg.cc/ggw8rzm6n/es-wordpress.png
>
> In our case, we the spanish subsite admins try to avoid linguistic
> nuances. That's why I think we should not use the country name
> neither, for the case just 'Spanish' would work.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
>
> El lun., 13 ago. 2018 a las 12:17, Jean Spiteri
> (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>> Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
>>> Maybe yes, but I am just one Italian (rather fluent in English). We
>>> should ask to more people. I could share the question with the Italian
>>> community.
>> Actually, I would have liked someone to cross post it to the l10n list (as a
>> whole) for more feedback but I'm not a subscriber to it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

Rhoslyn Prys-5 wrote
> I think there is a danger of over-estimating our audience's ability to
> understand English. If possible, I'd prefer the invitation to be
> localised, including language name but no flag or country name. Language
> communities can be spread over many countries and continents.

OK, if the majority think that the banner should be translated, it may be
doable.


Rhoslyn Prys-5 wrote
> Is the website set up for the language preference in the browser? When I
> type in libreoffice in my search engine I get the English website rather
> than the Welsh one - my browser preference language.

The banner will not have any effect on that. I'm not a SEO expert so it
could be that the Welsh site's PageRank is lower than the official one.




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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Jean Spiteri
The code has been updated to comply with the feedback given on this thread.
It is desirable that everyone re-visits newdesign.libreoffice.org to re-test
that it works well. Most of the changes done are, however, under the hood
and should not be seen, as long as they do not include a regression.

The changes done, for the sake of completeness, are

* The community name (X in The X community) does not include the
Region/Country in most cases. Thus, for example, when before it was " The
Italian (Italy) community", it is "The Italian community". This has been
done in such a way to still allow dialects to be distinguished. (pt-BR will
still have Brazil in the community name).

* The community name (ex. Italian) is now translated in the native language.
Thus, you'll see "The ITALIANO community".

* The change above is to prepare for when the string will be translated. The
text included in the banner is now translatable. However, input from a TDF
admin is still required to upload the strings to Pootle to have them
transalted by the community.

Again, any further feedback is welcome. Thank you.



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Italo Vignoli-5 Italo Vignoli-5
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

On 14/08/2018 15:34, Jean Spiteri wrote:

> * The community name (ex. Italian) is now translated in the native language.
> Thus, you'll see "The ITALIANO community".

This sounds terrible (languages clash and gender clash, as community is
feminine and ITALIANO is masculine), "the community in ITALIA" sounds
better.

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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

There will be gender problems for many languages. I suggest something else:
"Your language community (LANG_NAME)" - or whatever works better in English
Countries are a problem, because some language communities cover several
countries, and sometimes language communities are spread over the borders
of the countries where that language is the official one ...

Lp, m.

2018-08-14 15:47 GMT+02:00 Italo Vignoli <[hidden email]>:

> On 14/08/2018 15:34, Jean Spiteri wrote:
>
> > * The community name (ex. Italian) is now translated in the native
> language.
> > Thus, you'll see "The ITALIANO community".
>
> This sounds terrible (languages clash and gender clash, as community is
> feminine and ITALIANO is masculine), "the community in ITALIA" sounds
> better.
>
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Jean Spiteri Jean Spiteri
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Re: Multilingual LibreOffice website

In reply to this post by Italo Vignoli-5
Italo Vignoli-5 wrote
>> * The community name (ex. Italian) is now translated in the native
>> language.
>> Thus, you'll see "The ITALIANO community".
>
> This sounds terrible (languages clash and gender clash, as community is
> feminine and ITALIANO is masculine), "the community in ITALIA" sounds
> better.

Oh yeah should have got that while reading it so sorry for that. Now that
I'm thinking about it, even though it probably isn't the best way (currently
the name is fed through a variable, what would be the drawbacks of making
the comunity name translatable as the rest of the string? That would avoid
over complicating everything due to gender and other reasons.





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