Nabble - is it worth it?

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Nabble - is it worth it?

Howdy,

A couple of things to bring up regarding the Nabble archive service.

1 - a few weeks back Nabble switched from a totally free (as in Ad Free)
service to one that now includes Ads. This is a bit of a problem IMO.
[For instance having a MSO on the bottom of a page with LibO
header..well, that is just darn right unseemly]

So - there are 2 ways to turn off the ads.

- Money
- Barter

Money is the easiest. Basically one can buy credits (page views) at the
following rates:
$5.00 USD = 10,000 credits (page views)
$25.00 = 100,000 credits
$125.00 = 1,000,000 credits

I've pulled together some usage numbers:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Nabble-page-views.ods

[This is only a subset of the lists, used to create some estimates. I
was really surprised by the ja usage]

From this I'd estimate we have right around 400,000 page views to date
and that a million credits is what we need. I'm planning on making that
purchase later this week.

[note - I asked for some details on what is considered a page view on
the Nabble support site, so feel pretty confident in the numbers - the
support guys put 300 credits on our account and we blew through that in
less then a 24 hour period]

Barter by the way is tied into item number 2.

2 - Language support for the GUI is finally available. Current language
packs available are de, en, fr, ja, pt-br. The specification for
creating additional language packs is also now available.

Regarding additional language packs - the Nabble team is paying a bounty
of 50,000 ad credits for every language pack submitted and accepted. If
anyone feels up to working on this have them contact me, or the Nabble
team, for details.

The not so good news is that UI language can only be set at the archive
level...meaning that I would need to do make some fairly extensive
changes to how things are currently setup in order to make use of the
language packs. I would also require some thought and coordination with
the website team...so, I would like to get some feedback as to how much
interest there would be in pursuing this.

3 - The first real spam attack happened, about a week ago. Sly little
devils exploited a weakness in how I had set access permissions for the
application pages..I've removed the offending posts [none of which made
it into the real mail server archives] and have begun changing the
access settings at each of the pages...when I'm finished I'll document
the changes on the wiki.

4 - there is a new templating system about to be released that will
offer much more control over how we build the individual pages for
display...I've started review the documentation for that and have setup
a test bed...so when that is available I'll come back here with some
ideas on how we might make use of same.

Finally - I suppose the other option is to stop using Nabble..and if
anyone thinks that is the right course of action, now is a good time to
bring it up?

Thanks

//drew


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snowshed snowshed
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On 9/25/11 8:33 PM, drew wrote:
> Finally - I suppose the other option is to stop using Nabble..and if
> anyone thinks that is the right course of action, now is a good time to
> bring it up?

I don't use it, but I don't want it to go away.

LO is the only place on the web that has it's help system set up the way
I would design on.  A discussion on this would be off topic, I think, so
I'll go no further.  :-)

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krackedpress krackedpress
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On 09/26/2011 11:02 AM, Ken Springer wrote:

> On 9/25/11 8:33 PM, drew wrote:
>> Finally - I suppose the other option is to stop using Nabble..and if
>> anyone thinks that is the right course of action, now is a good time to
>> bring it up?
>
> I don't use it, but I don't want it to go away.
>
> LO is the only place on the web that has it's help system set up the
> way I would design on.  A discussion on this would be off topic, I
> think, so I'll go no further.  :-)
>
Some people would prefer using a web based system for lists than an
email based system.  Some people do not want to have emails sent to them
for "error" topics and "how to" topics that they have no interest in.  I
think we had a few people leave the list because of the volume of emails.

So we need to have some system that people can read, and maybe reply to,
threads that have subjects that have interest to their needs.  If not
Nabble, some other type of web/browser-based service.



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Olivier R. Olivier R.
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

In reply to this post by drewjensen
Hello,

drewjensen wrote
So - there are 2 ways to turn off the ads.

- Money
- Barter
Adblock. Geeks usually use it.


drewjensen wrote
Finally - I suppose the other option is to stop using Nabble..and if
anyone thinks that is the right course of action, now is a good time to
bring it up?
You should ask how many people have subscribed  to mailing-lists without receiving any mails. I already saw the statistics few months ago on one of these mailing-lists.

Regards,
Olivier
drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 10:00 -0700, Olivier R. wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> drewjensen wrote:
> >
> > So - there are 2 ways to turn off the ads.
> >
> > - Money
> > - Barter
> >
>
> Adblock. Geeks usually use it.

Right - straw man argument IMO - geeks are not who concern me with
regards to this particular tool, to be frank.

>
>
>
> drewjensen wrote:
> >
> > Finally - I suppose the other option is to stop using Nabble..and if
> > anyone thinks that is the right course of action, now is a good time to
> > bring it up?
> >
>
> You should ask how many people have subscribed  to mailing-lists without
> receiving any mails. I already saw the statistics few months ago on one of
> these mailing-lists.

Right, last time I saw stats thee were a few hundred people subscribed
with the no-mail option - but it is a different situation really.

There is very little posting via nabble and I don't really expect that
to change, but there are some. It appears to be that more and more
people are reading via the interface and using the built in search
function.

For instance I am interested in why the FR and JA announce list was so
much more active then in the other languages, I don't really know why.

Some folks seem to like viewing the Announce list as a type of blog
almost, if you haven't looked at that you can see the page here:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Announcements-and-Press-Releases-f1829011.html

I tend to use the RSS syndication - particularly the ability to
aggregate topic/post activity from multiple ML to a single feed

- also, Google+ [+1], Facebook and Twitter buttons where added to the
topic pages and I've started to use these.

But for myself the primary tool is my email client...it's really just
about choice IMO.

Best wishes,

//drew


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snowshed snowshed
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On 9/26/11 12:52 PM, drew wrote:
> But for myself the primary tool is my email client...it's really just
> about choice IMO.

Choice is correct, that's where the secret is, IMO.  So, keep Nabble,
and let the user determine which way the user wants to read the mailing
list.  I prefer a newsgroup reader.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 6.0.2
Thunderbird 6.0.2
LibreOffice 3.3.3


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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

Hi Ken, all!

Am Montag, den 26.09.2011, 15:28 -0600 schrieb Ken Springer:
> On 9/26/11 12:52 PM, drew wrote:
> > But for myself the primary tool is my email client...it's really just
> > about choice IMO.
>
> Choice is correct, that's where the secret is, IMO.  So, keep Nabble,
> and let the user determine which way the user wants to read the mailing
> list.  I prefer a newsgroup reader.

Is it just used as a mail reader, or do people use it as a replacement
for a forum - because it covers threading/search/... hhm.

Cheers,
Christoph


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snowshed snowshed
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On 9/26/11 3:30 PM, Christoph Noack wrote:

> Hi Ken, all!
>
> Am Montag, den 26.09.2011, 15:28 -0600 schrieb Ken Springer:
>> On 9/26/11 12:52 PM, drew wrote:
>>> But for myself the primary tool is my email client...it's really just
>>> about choice IMO.
>>
>> Choice is correct, that's where the secret is, IMO.  So, keep Nabble,
>> and let the user determine which way the user wants to read the mailing
>> list.  I prefer a newsgroup reader.
>
> Is it just used as a mail reader, or do people use it as a replacement
> for a forum - because it covers threading/search/... hhm.

"it"= what?  Nabble?


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Thunderbird 6.0.2
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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

In reply to this post by drewjensen
Hi Drew,

thanks a lot for all your work on Nabble! (And of course, all your other
work ;)

drew wrote on 2011-09-26 04:33:
> 1 - a few weeks back Nabble switched from a totally free (as in Ad Free)
> service to one that now includes Ads. This is a bit of a problem IMO.
> [For instance having a MSO on the bottom of a page with LibO
> header..well, that is just darn right unseemly]

To me, there are two easy options:

1. We invest $125 for the ad-free service. Sounds like not too much
money, and we could have a vote on the steering-discuss list about that.

2. Look for another service, maybe something self-hosted.

My idea would be to combine #1 and #2. First, invest the money to have
no time pressure, but then in the mid-term, investigate other solutions
and use these.

Florian

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

In reply to this post by snowshed
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 18:09 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

> On 9/26/11 3:30 PM, Christoph Noack wrote:
> > Hi Ken, all!
> >
> > Am Montag, den 26.09.2011, 15:28 -0600 schrieb Ken Springer:
> >> On 9/26/11 12:52 PM, drew wrote:
> >>> But for myself the primary tool is my email client...it's really just
> >>> about choice IMO.
> >>
> >> Choice is correct, that's where the secret is, IMO.  So, keep Nabble,
> >> and let the user determine which way the user wants to read the mailing
> >> list.  I prefer a newsgroup reader.
> >
> > Is it just used as a mail reader, or do people use it as a replacement
> > for a forum - because it covers threading/search/... hhm.
>
> "it"= what?  Nabble?
>

Hi Ken, Christoph,

Yes.

I'm trying not to use the 'F' word *smile*, it seems to garner a
visceral response..and darned if I really know why.

It appears it is just being used as a reader, yes. I can't really, for
sure, know the mix between browsing and searching - there is a fair bit
of browsing I can tell that, how much use of the search box I can't
tell.

//drew


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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

In reply to this post by Florian Effenberger
On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 10:27 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:

> Hi Drew,
>
> thanks a lot for all your work on Nabble! (And of course, all your other
> work ;)
>
> drew wrote on 2011-09-26 04:33:
> > 1 - a few weeks back Nabble switched from a totally free (as in Ad Free)
> > service to one that now includes Ads. This is a bit of a problem IMO.
> > [For instance having a MSO on the bottom of a page with LibO
> > header..well, that is just darn right unseemly]
>
> To me, there are two easy options:
>
> 1. We invest $125 for the ad-free service. Sounds like not too much
> money, and we could have a vote on the steering-discuss list about that.

It looks to be that $125.00 would turn ads off for around 18 months,
assuming the increase in usage continues at the same rate I've seen to
date.

>
> 2. Look for another service, maybe something self-hosted.

>
> My idea would be to combine #1 and #2. First, invest the money to have
> no time pressure, but then in the mid-term, investigate other solutions
> and use these.

That makes the most sense IMO.

//drew


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Florian Effenberger Florian Effenberger
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

Hi Drew,

drew wrote on 2011-09-27 21:35:
> It looks to be that $125.00 would turn ads off for around 18 months,
> assuming the increase in usage continues at the same rate I've seen to
> date.

thanks for researching! Can you send that request to steering-discuss,
i.e. 125 USD for Nabble?

Thanks!
Florian

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drewjensen drewjensen
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Re: Nabble - is it worth it?

On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 11:29 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
> Hi Drew,
>
> drew wrote on 2011-09-27 21:35:
> > It looks to be that $125.00 would turn ads off for around 18 months,
> > assuming the increase in usage continues at the same rate I've seen to
> > date.
>
> thanks for researching! Can you send that request to steering-discuss,
> i.e. 125 USD for Nabble?

yes, sure.

//drew


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