Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

Sinds all or editors use LO 3.6.2 (before OO3.3)

We have complains about the fact that parts of the text, who are formated with a Character Style, can not been "cleared" to no-formating,
not by "Clear formating"
not by "Clear Direct Formating (cntrl+M)"

There is a dirty work-around by applying the "Default" character style

Paragraph Styles can been cleared....
Is this intentional behavior or a regression open for a issue ?

Greetz

Fernand

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Caolán McNamara Caolán McNamara
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 10:55 +0100, Fernand Vanrie wrote:

> Sinds all or editors use LO 3.6.2 (before OO3.3)
>
> We have complains about the fact that parts of the text, who are
> formated with a Character Style, can not been "cleared" to
> no-formating,
> not by "Clear Direct Formating (cntrl+M)"
>
> There is a dirty work-around by applying the "Default" character style
>
> Paragraph Styles can been cleared....
> Is this intentional behavior or a regression open for a issue ?

My understanding is
a) that its intentional, see
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2010-February/000540.html
and the commit
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6e690e0909459d46c53d17e7939891abea11e566
b) that "paragraph styles" are not cleared, i.e. the text should remain
using the original paragraph and character styles, but any additional
properties applied on top of that is reset to the underlying paragraph
and character styles properties.

C.

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Michael Stahl-2 Michael Stahl-2
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

On 10/01/13 14:25, Caolán McNamara wrote:

> On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 10:55 +0100, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
>> Sinds all or editors use LO 3.6.2 (before OO3.3)
>>
>> We have complains about the fact that parts of the text, who are
>> formated with a Character Style, can not been "cleared" to
>> no-formating,
>> not by "Clear Direct Formating (cntrl+M)"
>>
>> There is a dirty work-around by applying the "Default" character style
>>
>> Paragraph Styles can been cleared....
>> Is this intentional behavior or a regression open for a issue ?
>
> My understanding is
> a) that its intentional, see
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2010-February/000540.html
> and the commit
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6e690e0909459d46c53d17e7939891abea11e566

the corresponding issues are an "interesting" read:

https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=47893 <- patch author
arguing for the change
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=85464 <- a certain Cor
reporting the change as regression :)

i definitely think that there should be some button to reset formatting
that leaves character styles intact, and that should be the "most easily
accessible" option.  but i wouldn't object to a second button to reset
all formatting, including styles.

resetting the character styles should be as easy as setting "Default"
char style on the whole document, so i'm not sure if another option is
worth the additional clutter.

but hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" since
they are not formatting, but content entities (the reset feature also
doesn't convert fields to plain text).

also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...


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Caolán McNamara Caolán McNamara
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 15:10 +0100, Michael Stahl wrote:
> There should be some button to reset formatting that leaves character
> styles intact, and that should be the "most easily accessible" option.

> ... hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" ...

And that's what we've got with "clear direct formatting" at the moment,
right ?

> also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
> formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
> currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
> already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...

Yeah, that makes sense to me too. You should push that.

C.

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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

In reply to this post by Caolán McNamara
Caolán ,

thanks for the background and your atention to this problem

OK but ...its still very confusing for most users

they can clear all "direct formating" in the right place, the formating
menu

they can clear "Paragraph formating" produced by a style using the
Formating Toolbar option
why can they not clear Character formating produced by a style ?

+ there is no logic behind the clearing options
when using the formating tools in the "Formating Toolbar" we can use
  "Clear Formating" who clears the Paragraph format  who is actualy
setting the slected text  to the "default" paragraph style
we can also do exactly the same by applying the  " Default Style" to the
selected text

so i suppose we need to change  the Formating Toolbar "Styles dropdown"
- the existing option named "Clear Formating" has to name "Clear
Paragraph Style Formating"
- a extra option named "Clear Character Style formating"  (who infact
also will clear the Hyperlinks)

Greetz

Fernand

> On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 10:55 +0100, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
>> Sinds all or editors use LO 3.6.2 (before OO3.3)
>>
>> We have complains about the fact that parts of the text, who are
>> formated with a Character Style, can not been "cleared" to
>> no-formating,
>> not by "Clear Direct Formating (cntrl+M)"
>>
>> There is a dirty work-around by applying the "Default" character style
>>
>> Paragraph Styles can been cleared....
>> Is this intentional behavior or a regression open for a issue ?
> My understanding is
> a) that its intentional, see
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2010-February/000540.html
> and the commit
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6e690e0909459d46c53d17e7939891abea11e566
> b) that "paragraph styles" are not cleared, i.e. the text should remain
> using the original paragraph and character styles, but any additional
> properties applied on top of that is reset to the underlying paragraph
> and character styles properties.
>
> C.

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Fernand Vanrie Fernand Vanrie
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

In reply to this post by Michael Stahl-2
Michael plaese see also my reply to Caloán

> On 10/01/13 14:25, Caolán McNamara wrote:
>> On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 10:55 +0100, Fernand Vanrie wrote:
>>> Sinds all or editors use LO 3.6.2 (before OO3.3)
>>>
>>> We have complains about the fact that parts of the text, who are
>>> formated with a Character Style, can not been "cleared" to
>>> no-formating,
>>> not by "Clear Direct Formating (cntrl+M)"
>>>
>>> There is a dirty work-around by applying the "Default" character style
>>>
>>> Paragraph Styles can been cleared....
>>> Is this intentional behavior or a regression open for a issue ?
>> My understanding is
>> a) that its intentional, see
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2010-February/000540.html
>> and the commit
>> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6e690e0909459d46c53d17e7939891abea11e566
> the corresponding issues are an "interesting" read:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=47893 <- patch author
> arguing for the change
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=85464 <- a certain Cor
> reporting the change as regression :)
>
> i definitely think that there should be some button to reset formatting
> that leaves character styles intact, and that should be the "most easily
> accessible" option.  but i wouldn't object to a second button to reset
> all formatting, including styles.
>
> resetting the character styles should be as easy as setting "Default"
> char style on the whole document, so i'm not sure if another option is
> worth the additional clutter.
if you know this work around yes
>
> but hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" since
> they are not formatting, but content entities (the reset feature also
> doesn't convert fields to plain text).
when you works in the printing business you "must" get rid  of this kind
of formating
>
> also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
> formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
> currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
> already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...
idem ditto
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

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David Tardon David Tardon
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 06:40:02PM +0100, Fernand Vanrie wrote:

> Michael plaese see also my reply to Caloán
> >On 10/01/13 14:25, Caolán McNamara wrote:
> >resetting the character styles should be as easy as setting "Default"
> >char style on the whole document, so i'm not sure if another option is
> >worth the additional clutter.
> if you know this work around yes
> >
> >but hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" since
> >they are not formatting, but content entities (the reset feature also
> >doesn't convert fields to plain text).
> when you works in the printing business you "must" get rid  of this
> kind of formating
> >
> >also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
> >formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
> >currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
> >already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...
> idem ditto

If you want to get rid of _all_ possible formatting, why don't you save
the document as plain text? :-)

D.
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m.a.riosv m.a.riosv
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

In reply to this post by Fernand Vanrie
Seeing David's proposed option, maybe an easy way:
- Select the paragraph or the text to clear the format.
- Copy
- Paste special as unformatted text.
Cor Nouws Cor Nouws
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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

In reply to this post by Michael Stahl-2
Hi all,

Sorry fr being late here...

Michael Stahl wrote (10-01-13 15:10)

>> My understanding is
>> a) that its intentional, see
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ooo-build/2010-February/000540.html
>> and the commit
>> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=6e690e0909459d46c53d17e7939891abea11e566
>
> the corresponding issues are an "interesting" read:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=47893 <- patch author
> arguing for the change
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=85464 <- a certain Cor
> reporting the change as regression :)

Depends on what users expect and what has been communicated about new
features ;-)

> i definitely think that there should be some button to reset formatting
> that leaves character styles intact, and that should be the "most easily
> accessible" option.

As mentioned by others: this is how this works.
And is the most used. Often just to control a piece of the documents
content (cleaning up rubbish).

> but i wouldn't object to a second button to reset  all formatting, including styles.

This is a second option, used far less, and should be as easy as Copy >
Paste special as Text without formatting.

> resetting the character styles should be as easy as setting "Default"
> char style on the whole document, so i'm not sure if another option is
> worth the additional clutter.

This is a third option...
Selecting a piece of text and hitting Ctrl-Shift-M (extended from
Ctrl-M) would be far more easy then F11, using mouse to activate
Character styles, Select/apply Default..
(Should be an easy hack, with all old changes available to look at?)

> but hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" since
> they are not formatting, but content entities (the reset feature also
> doesn't convert fields to plain text).
>
> also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
> formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
> currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
> already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...

I do not disagree on these points.

Cheers,
Cor

--
  - Cor
  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
  - www.librelex.org

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Re: Need confirmation about non-clearing of Character Styles

In reply to this post by Caolán McNamara
On 10/01/13 18:09, Caolán McNamara wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-01-10 at 15:10 +0100, Michael Stahl wrote:
>> There should be some button to reset formatting that leaves character
>> styles intact, and that should be the "most easily accessible" option.
>
>> ... hyperlinks should not be touched by any "reset formatting" ...
>
> And that's what we've got with "clear direct formatting" at the moment,
> right ?

yes, that came in with the same commit that retained character styles.

>> also i'm thinking that ruby text should also not be touched by "reset
>> formatting", and this has not yet been changed (i.e. it is reset
>> currently); the reset will actually throw away the ruby text.  i'm
>> already sitting on a patch to remove ruby from the reset list...
>
> Yeah, that makes sense to me too. You should push that.

done on master in 689d9af3e3adb12c507e141cc25ac35ec88bb5c5

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