New icon set

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mirek2 mirek2
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New icon set

Hi everyone,
I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for it.
The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
modernize the icon set.
Here's the whiteboard:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to develop,
how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of the
set and high-contrast versions, etc.

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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

Hy !

I'm in ! Im not a good designer and I have not a lot of time but I hope I
could help to brainstorm, class icons  and other little tasks (even if I
have not a lot of time)

First question. Will we follow your citrus proposal (color depending on
what part the icon affects (texts, image, document ...)

Kévin
Le 11 déc. 2011 00:22, "Mirek M." <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Hi everyone,
> I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for it.
> The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
> utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
> modernize the icon set.
> Here's the whiteboard:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
> Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
> decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to develop,
> how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of the
> set and high-contrast versions, etc.
>
> --
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>

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Stefan Knorr (Astron) Stefan Knorr (Astron)
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Re: New icon set

Hi,

A good start might be to ask the LibO Faenza creator if he wants to
re-license his theme under LGPL3+/MPL (as we can't use his icons under
CC-BY-SA). See here:
http://kadu20es.deviantart.com/art/Faenza-4-LibreOffice-3-4-213121128
. Anyone up for this?

Astron.

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: New icon set

Hi Stefan, Kévin, others,

2011/12/11 Stefan Knorr (Astron) <[hidden email]>

> Hi,
>
> A good start might be to ask the LibO Faenza creator if he wants to
> re-license his theme under LGPL3+/MPL (as we can't use his icons under
> CC-BY-SA). See here:
> http://kadu20es.deviantart.com/art/Faenza-4-LibreOffice-3-4-213121128
> . Anyone up for this?
>

The Faenza icon theme might serve as a good starting point, but I'd like to
draft up some specifications for the icons first. We need to agree on a
common look and discuss matters like, icon size, general line thickness,
and other design matters, plus the whole creation process in general.

@Kévin: Yes, I'd like the icons to be color-coded according to what they
apply to (the color codes are discussed on the wiki page I linked to), but,
ultimately, it's up to the community to decide.

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Tobias Bernard Tobias Bernard
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Re: New icon set

In reply to this post by mirek2
i'm in.

regarding tools and formats, i think inkscape + svg is the best solution
for the reasons mentioned here:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Collaboration

tobias


2011/12/11 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>

> Hi everyone,
> I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for it.
> The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
> utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
> modernize the icon set.
> Here's the whiteboard:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
> Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
> decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to develop,
> how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of the
> set and high-contrast versions, etc.
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

Sorry for all this time since my last mail...

So I think we really should design a new icon set. The very first point is
to brainstorm do we really want the icon set to be bi-color based according
to Mirek proposal. Personnaly, I think yes, because it can help a lot a
basic user who don't know what icon he search, but know what it's  for.

Then, I'm sure some people will hate that, so maybe we should also have to
decide ifthe actual way to change icon set (Tools>Options>display I suppose
(Outils>Options>Affichage in French) is enough. It's not difficult, but is
it enough discoverable ?

So Call for opinion and judgment : Say what you think about the idea !

Kévin

2011/12/11 Tobias Bernard <[hidden email]>

> i'm in.
>
> regarding tools and formats, i think inkscape + svg is the best solution
> for the reasons mentioned here:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Collaboration
>
> tobias
>
>
> 2011/12/11 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hi everyone,
> > I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for it.
> > The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
> > utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
> > modernize the icon set.
> > Here's the whiteboard:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
> > Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
> > decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to
> develop,
> > how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of the
> > set and high-contrast versions, etc.
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
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> > deleted
> >
> >
>
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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: New icon set

Hi everyone,
I've never made an icon set, and if we want to produce one, we need to
ensure that it is quality and consistent. We need an experienced icon
designer to coordinate this effort -- anyone up for that role?

2012/2/2 Kévin PEIGNOT <[hidden email]>

> Sorry for all this time since my last mail...
>
> So I think we really should design a new icon set. The very first point is
> to brainstorm do we really want the icon set to be bi-color based according
> to Mirek proposal. Personnaly, I think yes, because it can help a lot a
> basic user who don't know what icon he search, but know what it's for.


> Then, I'm sure some people will hate that, so maybe we should also have to
> decide ifthe actual way to change icon set (Tools>Options>display I suppose
> (Outils>Options>Affichage in French) is enough. It's not difficult, but is
> it enough discoverable ?
>

I would downplay icon customization, not because I want to force users into
a single icon set, but because sustaining a single icon set (or, rather,
four icon sets derived from a single one: dark, light, dark mono, and light
mono) will be much easier than sustaining several. If we're striving to
make a quality native LibreOffice for Android, we're going to have to make
an icon for just about every command in LibreOffice and the set will have
to be monochrome, to conform to Android's design guidelines. And if we
focus on a single icon set instead of four, we'll have one awesome icon set
instead of several mediocre ones.

To make icons conform to the design guidelines of a specific OS, we could
use this one set as the basis of a specific one -- add shadows, change
lighting, etc. It's much easier to work from mono- or di-chrome icon sets
than from complex, multicolored ones.

That said, I would prefer if icon themes were treated as extensions rather
than having a few sets hard-coded into LibreOffice with no obvious way to
add or remove them.

>
> So Call for opinion and judgment : Say what you think about the idea !
>
> Kévin
>
> 2011/12/11 Tobias Bernard <[hidden email]>
>
> > i'm in.
> >
> > regarding tools and formats, i think inkscape + svg is the best solution
> > for the reasons mentioned here:
> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Collaboration
> >
> > tobias
> >
> >
> > 2011/12/11 Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for
> it.
> > > The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
> > > utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
> > > modernize the icon set.
> > > Here's the whiteboard:
> > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
> > > Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
> > > decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to
> > develop,
> > > how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of
> the
> > > set and high-contrast versions, etc.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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Alexander Wilms Alexander Wilms
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Re: New icon set

Hi all,

I don't know how feasible this would be, but IMHO it would be great if
LO could use some of the systems icons. I don't know whether thats
possible on Win or Mac OS, but on Linux, the systems icon could be used
which would adapt to icon theme changes.

Alex

Am 04.02.2012 22:27, schrieb Mirek M.:

> Hi everyone,
> I've never made an icon set, and if we want to produce one, we need to
> ensure that it is quality and consistent. We need an experienced icon
> designer to coordinate this effort -- anyone up for that role?
>
> 2012/2/2 Kévin PEIGNOT<[hidden email]>
>
>> Sorry for all this time since my last mail...
>>
>> So I think we really should design a new icon set. The very first point is
>> to brainstorm do we really want the icon set to be bi-color based according
>> to Mirek proposal. Personnaly, I think yes, because it can help a lot a
>> basic user who don't know what icon he search, but know what it's for.
>
>> Then, I'm sure some people will hate that, so maybe we should also have to
>> decide ifthe actual way to change icon set (Tools>Options>display I suppose
>> (Outils>Options>Affichage in French) is enough. It's not difficult, but is
>> it enough discoverable ?
>>
> I would downplay icon customization, not because I want to force users into
> a single icon set, but because sustaining a single icon set (or, rather,
> four icon sets derived from a single one: dark, light, dark mono, and light
> mono) will be much easier than sustaining several. If we're striving to
> make a quality native LibreOffice for Android, we're going to have to make
> an icon for just about every command in LibreOffice and the set will have
> to be monochrome, to conform to Android's design guidelines. And if we
> focus on a single icon set instead of four, we'll have one awesome icon set
> instead of several mediocre ones.
>
> To make icons conform to the design guidelines of a specific OS, we could
> use this one set as the basis of a specific one -- add shadows, change
> lighting, etc. It's much easier to work from mono- or di-chrome icon sets
> than from complex, multicolored ones.
>
> That said, I would prefer if icon themes were treated as extensions rather
> than having a few sets hard-coded into LibreOffice with no obvious way to
> add or remove them.
>
>> So Call for opinion and judgment : Say what you think about the idea !
>>
>> Kévin
>>
>> 2011/12/11 Tobias Bernard<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> i'm in.
>>>
>>> regarding tools and formats, i think inkscape + svg is the best solution
>>> for the reasons mentioned here:
>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Collaboration
>>>
>>> tobias
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/12/11 Mirek M.<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> I want to talk about making a new icon set, if people here are up for
>> it.
>>>> The icon set would be much simpler than the current one, all icons
>>>> utilizing only two colors. I'm bringing up the idea because I'd like to
>>>> modernize the icon set.
>>>> Here's the whiteboard:
>>>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set .
>>>> Tell me if you'd be interested in working on this. If so, we'll need to
>>>> decide on how to proceed, what format to use, what resolutions to
>>> develop,
>>>> how we could automate converstion of colors to get a light version of
>> the
>>>> set and high-contrast versions, etc.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
>>>> Problems?
>>>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>>>> Posting guidelines + more:
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>>> deleted
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>



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Stefan Knorr (Astron) Stefan Knorr (Astron)
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Re: New icon set

Hi all,

> I don't know how feasible this would be, but IMHO it would be great if LO
> could use some of the systems icons. I don't know whether thats possible on
> Win or Mac OS, but on Linux, the systems icon could be used which would
> adapt to icon theme changes.

On Linux, it would probably be feasible if someone worked on
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30425 first.

On other systems, using the OS icons is probably not an option, because:
* on Windows, icons tend to be in DLL's and EXE's (not extractable or reliable)
* on Mac OS ... I don't know, I guess the icon are compiled into the
binaries, too.


>> That said, I would prefer if icon themes were treated as extensions rather
>> than having a few sets hard-coded into LibreOffice with no obvious way to
>> add or remove them.

The developers see that similarly ... I believe there's an Easy Hack
somewhere, too.

Astron.

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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

Hi

I don't think using system icons would be a good idea : except it could be
more integrated, it would break the logic behind mono/bi-chrome icons and
color codes (see Mirek proposal :
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set, I
personally am a supporter of this one ).

More of that, having OS icons only for GNU/Lunx Libreoffice versions would
be a useless amount of work (to verify it works fine, it uses the good icon
...). So we should maintain one and only one icon set, with the possibility
for the user to change it if he wants, but others icons sets wouldn't be
officially supported (extensions ? )

Kévin

2012/2/6 Stefan Knorr (Astron) <[hidden email]>

> Hi all,
>
> > I don't know how feasible this would be, but IMHO it would be great if LO
> > could use some of the systems icons. I don't know whether thats possible
> on
> > Win or Mac OS, but on Linux, the systems icon could be used which would
> > adapt to icon theme changes.
>
> On Linux, it would probably be feasible if someone worked on
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30425 first.
>
> On other systems, using the OS icons is probably not an option, because:
> * on Windows, icons tend to be in DLL's and EXE's (not extractable or
> reliable)
> * on Mac OS ... I don't know, I guess the icon are compiled into the
> binaries, too.
>
>
> >> That said, I would prefer if icon themes were treated as extensions
> rather
> >> than having a few sets hard-coded into LibreOffice with no obvious way
> to
> >> add or remove them.
>
> The developers see that similarly ... I believe there's an Easy Hack
> somewhere, too.
>
> Astron.
>
> --
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>

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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

Hi,

With the release of LibreOffice 3.5, lot of website talk about it , and
people publish comments. In France, and I suppose it's the same anywhere
else, it seems people would really like to have new icons, the actual
looking outdated for them.

It seems we don't have professionals icons designers here who have time to
help with "guidelines of LibO icons design" actually, but I think we can
decide on some point today :

First point : Do we need OS related icons ? default ? option ? let
community make extensions to integrate them ?
Then : Is the flat icon set a good idea ? Does someone can help use with
the idea of how to "auto-color" icons, or do we need to integrate colorated
icons ?
Finally, it's not really a decision, what icons do we need (yes it's useful
to know ;) )

Here are my thought :
We shouldn't try to make system integrated icons, because it's too much
work for us (I think), If people really want them (Or distrib such as Mint,
Ubuntu, Fedora and others), community and companies behind them will easily
made extension for that.
More of that, point 2, I'm totally with the idea of flat icon set proposed
by Mirek, and system integrated icons would just break everything ....

Feed back appreciated, maybe votes ?

Kévin

2012/2/6 Kévin PEIGNOT <[hidden email]>

> Hi
>
> I don't think using system icons would be a good idea : except it could be
> more integrated, it would break the logic behind mono/bi-chrome icons and
> color codes (see Mirek proposal :
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set, I
> personally am a supporter of this one ).
>
> More of that, having OS icons only for GNU/Lunx Libreoffice versions would
> be a useless amount of work (to verify it works fine, it uses the good icon
> ...). So we should maintain one and only one icon set, with the possibility
> for the user to change it if he wants, but others icons sets wouldn't be
> officially supported (extensions ? )
>
> Kévin
>
> 2012/2/6 Stefan Knorr (Astron) <[hidden email]>
>
> Hi all,
>>
>> > I don't know how feasible this would be, but IMHO it would be great if
>> LO
>> > could use some of the systems icons. I don't know whether thats
>> possible on
>> > Win or Mac OS, but on Linux, the systems icon could be used which would
>> > adapt to icon theme changes.
>>
>> On Linux, it would probably be feasible if someone worked on
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30425 first.
>>
>> On other systems, using the OS icons is probably not an option, because:
>> * on Windows, icons tend to be in DLL's and EXE's (not extractable or
>> reliable)
>> * on Mac OS ... I don't know, I guess the icon are compiled into the
>> binaries, too.
>>
>>
>> >> That said, I would prefer if icon themes were treated as extensions
>> rather
>> >> than having a few sets hard-coded into LibreOffice with no obvious way
>> to
>> >> add or remove them.
>>
>> The developers see that similarly ... I believe there's an Easy Hack
>> somewhere, too.
>>
>> Astron.
>>
>> --
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Bhaavan Merchant Bhaavan Merchant
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Re: New icon set

In reply to this post by mirek2
I couldnt agree more with the fact that a flat and OS independent icon set
will help LibO.

This is my +1 to the idea.

however, i also believe, that the codebase for the single icon set much be
such that later on, it must be possible to change icons using extensions.

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Charles-H. Schulz Charles-H. Schulz
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Re: New icon set

Hello Kevin, Bhaavan, all,

Le mercredi 15 février 2012 à 18:04 +0530, Bhaavan Merchant a écrit :
> I couldnt agree more with the fact that a flat and OS independent icon set
> will help LibO.
>
> This is my +1 to the idea.
>
> however, i also believe, that the codebase for the single icon set much be
> such that later on, it must be possible to change icons using extensions.
>

Well you don't even need an extension to change icons (just go to the
Options > Display> ...) but indeed, it would be nice to redesign new
icons. The question I think, should answer a few parameters:
- Do we want a reference set of icons?
- Should we have specific icons for each platform (Tango anyone?)
- What about the accessibility (C. Strobbe?)
 
I'm sure there are more; so yes for new icons, but let's just ask
ourselves what it is we'll do with them. In the meantime, creative and
designers should be welcome to start using their pencils :-)

Best,

--
Charles-H. Schulz
Co-Founder & Director,
The Document Foundation.


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Stefan Knorr (Astron) Stefan Knorr (Astron)
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Re: New icon set

Hi,

On 15 February 2012 13:50, Charles-H.Schulz
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> - Do we want a reference set of icons?

Mostly, we want to have a well-maintained set of icons. Currently,
none of the themes meet that definition, as all of them lack icons for
certain actions. That's one of the reasons why I am not exactly 100%
behind creating a completely new icon set – I think, fixing Tango
should go first. Why? Tango may not be everyone's favourite theme
(neither are monochrome icons, ... I digress), but
a) it has an established visual style
b) it's not so hard to find free/license-compliant Tango icons on the internet
c) the theme already exists and only needs extending and updating.
Nevertheless, if people come up with a new, substantial set of quality
icons, I'll do my best to get it into LibO.


> - Should we have specific icons for each platform (Tango anyone?)

Only if we can afford it. Currently, we can't really, since there are
so many icons and they are so disorganised and also none of our themes
is complete.


> - What about the accessibility (C. Strobbe?)

That might be of the areas where well-done monochrome icons could
actually help. Our current high-contrast icons, as you might know are
a mixture of very pixely Ooo 1 to Ooo 3 icons and are not very
consistent.

Regards,
Astron.

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: New icon set

Hi all!

I'm currently going through some of the mails written during the last
weeks ...

Am Mittwoch, den 15.02.2012, 14:08 +0100 schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron):
> Hi,
>
> On 15 February 2012 13:50, Charles-H.Schulz
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > - Do we want a reference set of icons?
>
> Mostly, we want to have a well-maintained set of icons.

Weither it is called "reference set", or "well-maintained set", I
strongly agree to the general idea here.

> Currently,
> none of the themes meet that definition, as all of them lack icons for
> certain actions. That's one of the reasons why I am not exactly 100%
> behind creating a completely new icon set – I think, fixing Tango
> should go first. Why? Tango may not be everyone's favourite theme
> (neither are monochrome icons, ... I digress), but
> a) it has an established visual style
> b) it's not so hard to find free/license-compliant Tango icons on the internet
> c) the theme already exists and only needs extending and updating.
> Nevertheless, if people come up with a new, substantial set of quality
> icons, I'll do my best to get it into LibO.

Well, I'd like to add two additional thoughts here:
      * If we stick with Tango, we might loose some people interested in
        icon design, since working on something established is usually
        less desired than creating something new. But, since creating
        something new (a huge set in a good quality) is an enormous
        task, going for Tango seems indeed better.
      * I know from talks with Stella (the designer of the e.g. Galaxy
        icon set for OpenOffice.org) that she needed lots (!) of time to
        cope with the enormous number of icons and thus "unique"
        metaphors. So working on an existing set will help us to create
        a basis for a new set.

The good thing about Tango is, that these are used within several FLOSS
applications and that some designers already were so kind to provide
this or that icon whilst we lacked designers to provide an own version.

> > - Should we have specific icons for each platform (Tango anyone?)
>
> Only if we can afford it. Currently, we can't really, since there are
> so many icons and they are so disorganised and also none of our themes
> is complete.

Well, looking at the current situation of skilled designers being ready
to work on the icons, I doubt that we can (at the very moment) afford
platform specific icons - although being helpful. I know that Mozilla
worked out such platform specifics for Firefox some years ago, but the
number of icons being shown per default is rather low (in contrast to
LibO).

However, since we discuss this issue from time to time, wouldn't it be
helpful to document a decision by the Design Team? But, of course, this
needs some consensus ... basically, it is a sub-decision about the
general visual design of LibO. Opinions, anyone?

For the curious, some years back I looked from time at the "Oxygen
Icons" project. A team of designers started working on a new set of
icons for the upcoming KDE 4 ... starting with style and metaphor work,
having numerous iterations etc.
http://www.oxygen-icons.org/

[...]

Cheers,
Christoph


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Sveinn í Felli Sveinn í Felli
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Re: New icon set

In reply to this post by Stefan Knorr (Astron)
Þann mán 20.feb 2012 20:00, skrifaði Christoph Noack:
-----------
> Am Mittwoch, den 15.02.2012, 14:08 +0100 schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron):
-----------

>> On 15 February 2012 13:50, Charles-H.Schulz
>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> - Do we want a reference set of icons?
>>
>> Mostly, we want to have a well-maintained set of icons.
>
> Weither it is called "reference set", or "well-maintained set", I
> strongly agree to the general idea here.
>
>> Currently,
>> none of the themes meet that definition, as all of them lack icons for
>> certain actions. That's one of the reasons why I am not exactly 100%
>> behind creating a completely new icon set – I think, fixing Tango
>> should go first. Why? Tango may not be everyone's favourite theme
>> (neither are monochrome icons, ... I digress), but
>> a) it has an established visual style
>> b) it's not so hard to find free/license-compliant Tango icons on the internet
>> c) the theme already exists and only needs extending and updating.
>> Nevertheless, if people come up with a new, substantial set of quality
>> icons, I'll do my best to get it into LibO.
>
> Well, I'd like to add two additional thoughts here:
>        * If we stick with Tango, we might loose some people interested in
>          icon design, since working on something established is usually
>          less desired than creating something new. But, since creating
>          something new (a huge set in a good quality) is an enormous
>          task, going for Tango seems indeed better.
>        * I know from talks with Stella (the designer of the e.g. Galaxy
>          icon set for OpenOffice.org) that she needed lots (!) of time to
>          cope with the enormous number of icons and thus "unique"
>          metaphors. So working on an existing set will help us to create
>          a basis for a new set.
>
-------------------
>
> However, since we discuss this issue from time to time, wouldn't it be
> helpful to document a decision by the Design Team? But, of course, this
> needs some consensus ... basically, it is a sub-decision about the
> general visual design of LibO. Opinions, anyone?

Some (humble) feedback:

I think a good first step would be to clearly document all
the icons needed in LibreOffice, naming conventions and
other criteria (size, uses, fileformat, etc...) Maybe the
result could be a sort of icon-map table (similar to a
character map) for LibreOffice. Maybe this exists already
but I haven't found it yet. There's some useful info on
<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons>.

Working on a couple of existing icon sets (Tango + Oxygen?)
should not be that difficult if there are good design
guidelines for each and if interested people could easily
see which icons are missing.

Then there might be work on new sets; personally I would
never use a monochrome set (even with some integrated color
coding) - but I admire Mirek's design in its simplicity and
I think it will appeal to many people. Guess my visual
detectors are spoiled with colors and forms ;-)

So, I really think there should be choice by default, e.g.
one darkish stylish theme, an institutional one and a
cheering colorful one. For example.

Finally; even though the compilation/creation of icon themes
for LibreOffice should be coordinated at LO/TDF, shouldn't
we explore the possibility of doing the actual design in
cooperation with other icon-design sites, especially for the
existing themes ?

Just thoughts.

Best regards,
Sveinn í Felli


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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

In reply to this post by Stefan Knorr (Astron)
2012/2/20 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>

> Þann mán 20.feb 2012 20:00, skrifaði Christoph Noack:
> -----------
>
>  Am Mittwoch, den 15.02.2012, 14:08 +0100 schrieb Stefan Knorr (Astron):
>>
> -----------
>
>> On 15 February 2012 13:50, Charles-H.Schulz
>>> <charles.schulz@**documentfoundation.org<[hidden email]>>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  - Do we want a reference set of icons?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mostly, we want to have a well-maintained set of icons.
>>>
>>
>> Weither it is called "reference set", or "well-maintained set", I
>> strongly agree to the general idea here.
>>
>>  Currently,
>>> none of the themes meet that definition, as all of them lack icons for
>>> certain actions. That's one of the reasons why I am not exactly 100%
>>> behind creating a completely new icon set – I think, fixing Tango
>>> should go first. Why? Tango may not be everyone's favourite theme
>>> (neither are monochrome icons, ... I digress), but
>>> a) it has an established visual style
>>> b) it's not so hard to find free/license-compliant Tango icons on the
>>> internet
>>> c) the theme already exists and only needs extending and updating.
>>> Nevertheless, if people come up with a new, substantial set of quality
>>> icons, I'll do my best to get it into LibO.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'd like to add two additional thoughts here:
>>       * If we stick with Tango, we might loose some people interested in
>>         icon design, since working on something established is usually
>>         less desired than creating something new. But, since creating
>>         something new (a huge set in a good quality) is an enormous
>>         task, going for Tango seems indeed better.
>>       * I know from talks with Stella (the designer of the e.g. Galaxy
>>         icon set for OpenOffice.org) that she needed lots (!) of time to
>>         cope with the enormous number of icons and thus "unique"
>>         metaphors. So working on an existing set will help us to create
>>         a basis for a new set.
>>
>>  -------------------
>
>
>> However, since we discuss this issue from time to time, wouldn't it be
>> helpful to document a decision by the Design Team? But, of course, this
>> needs some consensus ... basically, it is a sub-decision about the
>> general visual design of LibO. Opinions, anyone?
>>
>
> Some (humble) feedback:
>
> I think a good first step would be to clearly document all the icons
> needed in LibreOffice, naming conventions and other criteria (size, uses,
> fileformat, etc...) Maybe the result could be a sort of icon-map table
> (similar to a character map) for LibreOffice. Maybe this exists already but
> I haven't found it yet. There's some useful info on <https://wiki.**
> documentfoundation.org/Design/**Whiteboards/LibreOffice_**Initial_Icons<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons>
> >.
>
I agree, maybe we should use a wikipage for that (Something like that
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/NeededIcons - Scuse
me I don't have time to make more today but it's a starting point)

>
> Working on a couple of existing icon sets (Tango + Oxygen?) should not be
> that difficult if there are good design guidelines for each and if
> interested people could easily see which icons are missing.
>
> Then there might be work on new sets; personally I would never use a
> monochrome set (even with some integrated color coding) - but I admire
> Mirek's design in its simplicity and I think it will appeal to many people.
> Guess my visual detectors are spoiled with colors and forms ;-)
>

I'm sure we should officially maintain one icon theme (and its variant as
High Contrast) not more. But to choose whether to maintain a monochrome (as
Mirek Proposal) or colorful one, we should list positives and negatives for
each case, UX speaking (not thinking "It is beautiful / It's not beautiful"
: Everyone will have a different opinion on this), just thinking : "How can
it help users of LibO ?" And list this on the Wiki.

>
> So, I really think there should be choice by default, e.g. one darkish
> stylish theme, an institutional one and a cheering colorful one. For
> example.
>
The institutional and Darkish ones, as they are monochrome, can be
considered as One icon set to design I suppose, just changing their colour
then... Maybe changing color is possible within the software (having a
basic icon, and software change it's color automatically ?) The colorful
one can stay the Tango one in my way (even if I prefer Human)

And we mustn't forget the High Contrast one

> Finally; even though the compilation/creation of icon themes for
> LibreOffice should be coordinated at LO/TDF, shouldn't we explore the
> possibility of doing the actual design in cooperation with other
> icon-design sites, especially for the existing themes ?
>
> Just thoughts.
>
> Best regards,
> Sveinn í Felli
>
>

Kévin

>
>
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Fitoschido Fitoschido
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Re: New icon set

Monochrome icons are the way to go. Look[1], even Microsoft has
introduced them into Visual Studio (a toolbar-based UI app) and it
lloks just great.

[1]: http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-49-52-metablogapi/1464.image3_5F00_0ECF28C7.png

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Bhaavan Merchant Bhaavan Merchant
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Re: New icon set

In reply to this post by mirek2
>
> > I think a good first step would be to clearly document all the icons
> > needed in LibreOffice, naming conventions and other criteria (size, uses,
> > fileformat, etc...) Maybe the result could be a sort of icon-map table
> > (similar to a character map) for LibreOffice. Maybe this exists already
> but
> > I haven't found it yet. There's some useful info on <https://wiki.**
> > documentfoundation.org/Design/**Whiteboards/LibreOffice_**Initial_Icons<
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons
> >
> > >.
> >
> >I agree, maybe we should use a wikipage for that (Something like that
> >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/NeededIcons<http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/NeededIcons>- Scuse
> >me I don't have time to make more today but it's a starting point)
>

Yes, I believe this will be a good idea and we can have guidelines for
reference.



>
> >The institutional and Darkish ones, as they are monochrome, can be
> >considered as One icon set to design I suppose, just changing their colour
> >then... Maybe changing color is possible within the software (having a
> >basic icon, and software change it's color automatically ?) The colorful
> >one can stay the Tango one in my way (even if I prefer Human)
>
> >And we mustn't forget the High Contrast one
>


IMO, as we are an office suite, our final icon set should match an
institutional need of icons. In my opinion, dark, sober and sharp
monochrome icons qualify with this requirement. Thus, I feel, that the
icons must be of monochrome nature.

In terms of design, I like the icons which Google Docs (
http://www.ezoubi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/new_old_look_icons_google_docs.png)
use, and am thinking on that lines.

Also the basic icons visible in the this Citrus Mockup (
http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/find1.png) look clean
to me.

Again, this is a personal view and choice may vary from person to person.


In terms of implementation, i believe that it would be a save of time and
effort if we begin with using an existing theme. I am not sure if we have a
tool which could apply some property (say something like a monochrome layer
over the icon) across an entire icon set, and I will do some research into
this. If we do manage to get this as a script, we could run it to create
mono-chrome versions of a few icon-themes like tango, and then see the
result and choose and modify accordingly.

(The script idea may be a bit naive and I am not sure of the intricacies
involved, but I am willing to work for this if I get a positive response).

--
Bhaavan Merchant

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Kévin PEIGNOT-3 Kévin PEIGNOT-3
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Re: New icon set

2012/2/22 Bhaavan Merchant <[hidden email]>

> >
> > > I think a good first step would be to clearly document all the icons
> > > needed in LibreOffice, naming conventions and other criteria (size,
> uses,
> > > fileformat, etc...) Maybe the result could be a sort of icon-map table
> > > (similar to a character map) for LibreOffice. Maybe this exists already
> > but
> > > I haven't found it yet. There's some useful info on <https://wiki.**
> > >
> documentfoundation.org/Design/**Whiteboards/LibreOffice_**Initial_Icons<
> >
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons
> > >
> > > >.
> > >
> > >I agree, maybe we should use a wikipage for that (Something like that
> > >http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/NeededIcons<
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/NeededIcons>- Scuse
> > >me I don't have time to make more today but it's a starting point)
> >
>
> Yes, I believe this will be a good idea and we can have guidelines for
> reference.
>
>
>
> >
> > >The institutional and Darkish ones, as they are monochrome, can be
> > >considered as One icon set to design I suppose, just changing their
> colour
> > >then... Maybe changing color is possible within the software (having a
> > >basic icon, and software change it's color automatically ?) The colorful
> > >one can stay the Tango one in my way (even if I prefer Human)
> >
> > >And we mustn't forget the High Contrast one
> >
>
>
> IMO, as we are an office suite, our final icon set should match an
> institutional need of icons. In my opinion, dark, sober and sharp
> monochrome icons qualify with this requirement. Thus, I feel, that the
> icons must be of monochrome nature.
>
For the colour, I think Mirek proposal is great, because, using Android
guidelines if I remenber, it explain cases for dark as for light
Background. The first problem for me is : *How do we decide if we make a
monochrome icon set or a not monochrome one ?* Wikipage for voting ?



> In terms of design, I like the icons which Google Docs (
>
> http://www.ezoubi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/new_old_look_icons_google_docs.png
> )
> use, and am thinking on that lines.
>
Google using this seems to show it's not a too bad idea ;)

>
> Also the basic icons visible in the this Citrus Mockup (
> http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/find1.png) look
> clean
> to me.
>
> Again, this is a personal view and choice may vary from person to person.
>
>
> In terms of implementation, i believe that it would be a save of time and
> effort if we begin with using an existing theme. I am not sure if we have a
> tool which could apply some property (say something like a monochrome layer
> over the icon) across an entire icon set, and I will do some research into
> this. If we do manage to get this as a script, we could run it to create
> mono-chrome versions of a few icon-themes like tango, and then see the
> result and choose and modify accordingly.
>
Great Idea. And then making one icon set (I mean color) and including this
script in the software to generate the others colors ? Should we ask on dev
mailing list if this is possible / if it would need lot of CPU/memory
resource

>
> (The script idea may be a bit naive and I am not sure of the intricacies
> involved, but I am willing to work for this if I get a positive response).
>
> --
> Bhaavan Merchant
>
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