Notebookbar out of Experimental

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kainz.a kainz.a
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Notebookbar out of Experimental

Hi,

I know the notebookbar implementation has bugs but it's under development
since around 4 years and on each release the news pages wrote about this
experimental feature.

I talked at Munich Hackfest about the big open bugs
- bad keyboard navigation
you can use F6 like in every other LibO app (F6 switch from Menubar to
Toolbar to NB to Sidebar), but it would be awesome if
svtlo-ManagedMenuButton will support keyboard shortcut focus if menubar is
hidden and also sfxlo-NotebookbarToolBox widgets which was used to add the
different uno commands didn't work with F6 -> tab
I hope to get some patches to fix this issue, you are welcome to help.

- chart didn't support NB
the chart bug (if you open an chart in writer you see the notebookbar and
the toolbar) can be fixed by add an NB to chart module (which I can do) and
use this NB instead of the chart toolbar. But there is no progress in this
change cause chart if different from other modules.

- OS-X glitches
on OS-X there are several UI issues. I don't have an Mac so I can't say to
much.

The biggest issue is that there is NO developer working on the NB stuff. We
talk each release to bring NB out of experimental. As there is no real
progress (excluding the ui files) I recommend to bring some implementations
(tabbed, groupedbar) ouf of experimental for 6.2. Than we get more user
feedback and maybe some new developers.

cheers
Andreas_K

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Rosmaninho Rosmaninho
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Notebookbar out of Experimental

Please, this would be amazing.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 7:42 AM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know the notebookbar implementation has bugs but it's under development
> since around 4 years and on each release the news pages wrote about this
> experimental feature.
>
> I talked at Munich Hackfest about the big open bugs
> - bad keyboard navigation
> you can use F6 like in every other LibO app (F6 switch from Menubar to
> Toolbar to NB to Sidebar), but it would be awesome if
> svtlo-ManagedMenuButton will support keyboard shortcut focus if menubar is
> hidden and also sfxlo-NotebookbarToolBox widgets which was used to add the
> different uno commands didn't work with F6 -> tab
> I hope to get some patches to fix this issue, you are welcome to help.
>
> - chart didn't support NB
> the chart bug (if you open an chart in writer you see the notebookbar and
> the toolbar) can be fixed by add an NB to chart module (which I can do) and
> use this NB instead of the chart toolbar. But there is no progress in this
> change cause chart if different from other modules.
>
> - OS-X glitches
> on OS-X there are several UI issues. I don't have an Mac so I can't say to
> much.
>
> The biggest issue is that there is NO developer working on the NB stuff. We
> talk each release to bring NB out of experimental. As there is no real
> progress (excluding the ui files) I recommend to bring some implementations
> (tabbed, groupedbar) ouf of experimental for 6.2. Than we get more user
> feedback and maybe some new developers.
>
> cheers
> Andreas_K
>
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> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
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> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Rosmaninho Rosmaninho
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Notebookbar out of Experimental

Just as a side note. I've been using the Tabbedbar in 6.1 Fresh release
daily in my work on Windows 10.
None of those open issues are something that affect the functionality of
the Tabbed bar in daily use.

- The chart editing toolbar issue is expecially annoying but it is also
something that happens with the Standard Toolbars, since performing chart
editing also replace the Standard Toolbar by the Cart Editing toolbar. If
anything the Tabbedbar is *superior* in that regard because it remains
visible when the chart editing toolbar is present.

- As for MacOS glitches, I tried it on a MacOS VM and the issues are minor
aesthetic issues that do not impact its functionality. In fact, there are
far more serious glitches in LO on MacOS not related with the notebookbar
that warrant more attention.

So please lets move the Notebookbar out of experimental. The Groupedbars
and Tabbedbars are in great shape.



On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 4:43 PM Pedro Rosmaninho <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Please, this would be amazing.
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 7:42 AM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I know the notebookbar implementation has bugs but it's under development
>> since around 4 years and on each release the news pages wrote about this
>> experimental feature.
>>
>> I talked at Munich Hackfest about the big open bugs
>> - bad keyboard navigation
>> you can use F6 like in every other LibO app (F6 switch from Menubar to
>> Toolbar to NB to Sidebar), but it would be awesome if
>> svtlo-ManagedMenuButton will support keyboard shortcut focus if menubar is
>> hidden and also sfxlo-NotebookbarToolBox widgets which was used to add the
>> different uno commands didn't work with F6 -> tab
>> I hope to get some patches to fix this issue, you are welcome to help.
>>
>> - chart didn't support NB
>> the chart bug (if you open an chart in writer you see the notebookbar and
>> the toolbar) can be fixed by add an NB to chart module (which I can do)
>> and
>> use this NB instead of the chart toolbar. But there is no progress in this
>> change cause chart if different from other modules.
>>
>> - OS-X glitches
>> on OS-X there are several UI issues. I don't have an Mac so I can't say to
>> much.
>>
>> The biggest issue is that there is NO developer working on the NB stuff.
>> We
>> talk each release to bring NB out of experimental. As there is no real
>> progress (excluding the ui files) I recommend to bring some
>> implementations
>> (tabbed, groupedbar) ouf of experimental for 6.2. Than we get more user
>> feedback and maybe some new developers.
>>
>> cheers
>> Andreas_K
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
>> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
>>
>

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Edoardo Maria Elidoro Edoardo Maria Elidoro
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Notebookbar out of Experimental

I do agree to move the Notebookbar out of experimental.
The latest updates on the Tabbed Toolbar in the master branch improved both
the usability and the look & feel making it (in my opinion) a really useful
and nice feature to have.

I don't see a single reason why we should keep it in experimental.

Il giorno mar 6 nov 2018 alle ore 17:50 Pedro Rosmaninho <
[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> Just as a side note. I've been using the Tabbedbar in 6.1 Fresh release
> daily in my work on Windows 10.
> None of those open issues are something that affect the functionality of
> the Tabbed bar in daily use.
>
> - The chart editing toolbar issue is expecially annoying but it is also
> something that happens with the Standard Toolbars, since performing chart
> editing also replace the Standard Toolbar by the Cart Editing toolbar. If
> anything the Tabbedbar is *superior* in that regard because it remains
> visible when the chart editing toolbar is present.
>
> - As for MacOS glitches, I tried it on a MacOS VM and the issues are minor
> aesthetic issues that do not impact its functionality. In fact, there are
> far more serious glitches in LO on MacOS not related with the notebookbar
> that warrant more attention.
>
> So please lets move the Notebookbar out of experimental. The Groupedbars
> and Tabbedbars are in great shape.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 4:43 PM Pedro Rosmaninho <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Please, this would be amazing.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 7:42 AM kainz.a <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I know the notebookbar implementation has bugs but it's under
> development
> >> since around 4 years and on each release the news pages wrote about this
> >> experimental feature.
> >>
> >> I talked at Munich Hackfest about the big open bugs
> >> - bad keyboard navigation
> >> you can use F6 like in every other LibO app (F6 switch from Menubar to
> >> Toolbar to NB to Sidebar), but it would be awesome if
> >> svtlo-ManagedMenuButton will support keyboard shortcut focus if menubar
> is
> >> hidden and also sfxlo-NotebookbarToolBox widgets which was used to add
> the
> >> different uno commands didn't work with F6 -> tab
> >> I hope to get some patches to fix this issue, you are welcome to help.
> >>
> >> - chart didn't support NB
> >> the chart bug (if you open an chart in writer you see the notebookbar
> and
> >> the toolbar) can be fixed by add an NB to chart module (which I can do)
> >> and
> >> use this NB instead of the chart toolbar. But there is no progress in
> this
> >> change cause chart if different from other modules.
> >>
> >> - OS-X glitches
> >> on OS-X there are several UI issues. I don't have an Mac so I can't say
> to
> >> much.
> >>
> >> The biggest issue is that there is NO developer working on the NB stuff.
> >> We
> >> talk each release to bring NB out of experimental. As there is no real
> >> progress (excluding the ui files) I recommend to bring some
> >> implementations
> >> (tabbed, groupedbar) ouf of experimental for 6.2. Than we get more user
> >> feedback and maybe some new developers.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Andreas_K
> >>
> >> --
> >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> >> Problems?
> >> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> >> Posting guidelines + more:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> >> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
> >> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
> >>
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Michael Meeks-5 Michael Meeks-5
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Notebookbar out of Experimental

Hi there,

On 09/11/2018 11:58, Edoardo Maria Elidoro wrote:
> I do agree to move the Notebookbar out of experimental.
> The latest updates on the Tabbed Toolbar in the master branch improved both
> the usability and the look & feel making it (in my opinion) a really useful
> and nice feature to have.
>
> I don't see a single reason why we should keep it in experimental.

        IIRC the ESC agreed to have the option to enable it appear by default
at least in the run up to 6.2 to encourage more people to play with and
(hopefully) debug the functionality.

        Hopefully it will be in a good enough state for 6.2 final - but there
is no real magic way to make developers come & get involved and fix the
shortcomings short of encouraging them when they show up, and
evangelizing to / mentoring them.
> Il giorno mar 6 nov 2018 alle ore 17:50 Pedro Rosmaninho <
> [hidden email]> ha scritto:
>
>> - As for MacOS glitches, I tried it on a MacOS VM and the issues are minor
>> aesthetic issues that do not impact its functionality. In fact, there are
>> far more serious glitches in LO on MacOS not related with the notebookbar
>> that warrant more attention.

        Would be interested in a tracker bug for those; I'm interested in a
good, ordered list of the nastiest Mac bugs to fix.

        Thanks !

                Michael.

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