OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

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Ady Ady Ady Ady
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OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

 Hello Users of LibreOffice,

Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan

From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
link.

Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
page in the series is based on the prior one.

I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.

The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.

I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
might be relevant.

I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
wiki pages (and their related nested templates).

I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
"unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.

TIA,
Ady.

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Peter Hillier-Brook Peter Hillier-Brook
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

On 15/09/15 13:48, Ady Ady wrote:

>  Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>
> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>
> From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
> link.
>
> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>
> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>
> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>
> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
> might be relevant.
>
> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>
> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>
> TIA,
> Ady.
>
No problems with Debian and Iceweasel.

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Tom Williams Tom Williams
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

In reply to this post by Ady Ady
On 09/15/2015 05:48 AM, Ady Ady wrote:

>  Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>
> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>
> From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
> link.
>
> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>
> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>
> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>
> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
> might be relevant.
>
> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>
> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>
> TIA,
> Ady.
>
Works for me in Firefox 40.0.3 on Ubuntu Linux 15.04 (64-bit).

Peace...

"The Other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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marianne-x marianne-x
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

On 09/15/2015 05:48 AM, Ady Ady wrote:

>> >  Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>> >
>> >Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>> >  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>> >
>> > From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>> >page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>> >link.
>> >
>> >Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>> >reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>> >page in the series is based on the prior one.
>> >
>> >I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>> >and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>> >
>> >The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>> >
>> >I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>> >might be relevant.
>> >
>> >I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>> >happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>> >and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>> >wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>> >
>> >I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>> >"unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>> >happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>> >nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>> >
>> >TIA,
>> >Ady.
>> >
> Works for me with Firefox 40.0.3 on "windows" (aka "curtains") 7, 64 bit.

trj


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jdh111 jdh111
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page


Works for me with Chrome44.0.2403.89 on Chromixium 1.5 (Ubuntu 14.04)


On 15. 09. 15 16:01, mxk wrote:

> On 09/15/2015 05:48 AM, Ady Ady wrote:
>>> >  Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>> >
>>> >Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>> >  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>> >
>>> > From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>> >page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>> >link.
>>> >
>>> >Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>> >reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>> >page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>> >
>>> >I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>> >and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>> >
>>> >The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>> >
>>> >I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>> >might be relevant.
>>> >
>>> >I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>> >happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>> >and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>> >wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>> >
>>> >I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>> >"unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>> >happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>> >nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>> >
>>> >TIA,
>>> >Ady.
>>> >
>> Works for me with Firefox 40.0.3 on "windows" (aka "curtains") 7, 64
>> bit.
>
> trj
>
>


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libreoffice-ml.mbourne libreoffice-ml.mbourne
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

In reply to this post by Ady Ady
Ady Ady wrote:

>   Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>
> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>   https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>
>  From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
> link.
>
> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>
> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>
> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>
> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
> might be relevant.
>
> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>
> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.

Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.

I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based on
Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.

One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be less
frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I didn't try IE.

I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I haven't
been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the problem so
much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs a week though.

I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely! If
anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or perhaps
Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and installed a
load of updates just before the problems started. Another possibility
for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9 year old laptop
so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to investigating further.

Mark.


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Tom Williams Tom Williams
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Ady Ady wrote:
>>   Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>
>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>   https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>
>>  From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>> link.
>>
>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>
>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>
>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>
>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>> might be relevant.
>>
>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>
>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>
> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>
> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>
> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
> didn't try IE.
>
> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
> a week though.
>
> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
> investigating further.
>
> Mark.
>
>
So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How do
you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
the system hangs.

Peace..

"The Other"  Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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Simos Xenitellis Simos Xenitellis
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

In reply to this post by Ady Ady
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Ady Ady <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>
> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>
> From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
> link.
>
>
What is important here, is whether just the browser hangs or the whole
operating system (Windows) hangs.
If you can switch to other programs with Alt-Tab, then it is just a browser
that got stuck and somewhat less severe in a security sense.

When a web page can make a computer hang, then it is quite valuable to
security researchers
to identify and isolate the HTML code that causes this result.
In security terms, this is called a Denial of Service (DOS).
If the real underlying cause is something called a "memory corruption",
then it might be possible for attackers to adjust the HTML code
so that they can infect a computer. If someone can do the analysis,
then they pay money for those things in the security industry
(for example, https://www.google.gr/about/appsecurity/chrome-rewards/).

From your description below, it is more likely related to Avast (since both
Firefox and IE are affected).
To narrow down, you can disable Avast and try to visit the page again.
If your computer hangs even with Avast disabled, then please share that
with us ;-).

If your computer is OK with Avast disabled, then obviously the problem is
with Avast.
Avast has a "bug bounty" program and they pay at least $400 when you report
them bugs.
See more at https://www.avast.com/bug-bounty

Thanks,
Simos

Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to

> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>
> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>
> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>
> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
> might be relevant.
>
> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>
> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>
> TIA,
> Ady.
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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libreoffice-ml.mbourne libreoffice-ml.mbourne
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
Tom Williams wrote:

> On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Ady Ady wrote:
>>>    Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>>
>>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>>    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>>
>>>   From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>> link.
>>>
>>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>>
>>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>>
>>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>>
>>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>> might be relevant.
>>>
>>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>>
>>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>
>> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
>> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
>> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
>> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
>> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
>> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>>
>> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
>> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>>
>> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
>> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
>> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
>> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
>> didn't try IE.
>>
>> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
>> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
>> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
>> a week though.
>>
>> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
>> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
>> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
>> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
>> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
>> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
>> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
>> investigating further.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>>
> So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How do
> you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
> Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
> the system hangs.
>
> Peace..
>
> "The Other"  Tom

For me the whole OS completely hangs and I have to kill the power (press
and hold power button for a few seconds). Ctrl+Alt+Del does nothing,
mouse pointer doesn't move, and num lock / caps lock don't respond (they
often at least toggle the keyboard lights even if nothing else responds;
in this case even that stops responding).

I haven't got around to investigating thoroughly, but things I have
tried include:
- Just leaving it for over half an hour to see if it would start
responding again; it didn't.
- Checking event logs; there's nothing obviously relevant, except the
expected complaints during the next startup related to not having been
shut down properly.
- Keeping Task Manager / Sysinternals Process Explorer open before it
hangs, but there's no obvious peak in processor or memory usage, or any
particular process's activity - but they might just not get a chance to
update the display when it does hang.
- Some of the memory and CPU load tests from www.ultimatebootcd.com, but
they didn't reveal anything and didn't hang.

Can't actually remember whether I checked the disk for errors, I think I
did but may be worth doing again.

At some point when I have enough time I'll get the lid off and check
fans, heatsinks, etc. I'm half expecting to find dust or spiders
clogging things up...

Mark.


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Simos Xenitellis Simos Xenitellis
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

(obviously we are off-topic)

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:46 PM, <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Tom Williams wrote:
>
>> On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> Ady Ady wrote:
>>>
>>>>    Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>>>
>>>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>>>    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>>>
>>>>   From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>>> link.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>>>
>>>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>>>
>>>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>>> might be relevant.
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>>>
>>>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
>>> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
>>> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
>>> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
>>> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
>>> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>>>
>>> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
>>> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>>>
>>> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
>>> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
>>> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
>>> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
>>> didn't try IE.
>>>
>>> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
>>> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
>>> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
>>> a week though.
>>>
>>> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
>>> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
>>> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
>>> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
>>> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
>>> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
>>> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
>>> investigating further.
>>>
>>> Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How do
>> you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
>> Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
>> the system hangs.
>>
>> Peace..
>>
>> "The Other"  Tom
>>
>
> For me the whole OS completely hangs and I have to kill the power (press
> and hold power button for a few seconds). Ctrl+Alt+Del does nothing, mouse
> pointer doesn't move, and num lock / caps lock don't respond (they often at
> least toggle the keyboard lights even if nothing else responds; in this
> case even that stops responding).
>
> I haven't got around to investigating thoroughly, but things I have tried
> include:
> - Just leaving it for over half an hour to see if it would start
> responding again; it didn't.
> - Checking event logs; there's nothing obviously relevant, except the
> expected complaints during the next startup related to not having been shut
> down properly.
> - Keeping Task Manager / Sysinternals Process Explorer open before it
> hangs, but there's no obvious peak in processor or memory usage, or any
> particular process's activity - but they might just not get a chance to
> update the display when it does hang.
> - Some of the memory and CPU load tests from www.ultimatebootcd.com, but
> they didn't reveal anything and didn't hang.
>
> Can't actually remember whether I checked the disk for errors, I think I
> did but may be worth doing again.
>
> At some point when I have enough time I'll get the lid off and check fans,
> heatsinks, etc. I'm half expecting to find dust or spiders clogging things
> up...
>
>
The common thing with Ady is that you both have the Avast Antivirus. An
antivirus runs as a "system service" on Windows,
and if something goes terribly wrong in the system service, then the whole
operating system may misbehave.
Since you do not have yet a set of steps to reproduce the problem, it is
extremely difficult to figure out the issue.

Simos

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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

Simos Xenitellis wrote:

> (obviously we are off-topic)
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:46 PM, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Tom Williams wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ady Ady wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>>>>
>>>>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>>>>     https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>>>>
>>>>>    From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>>>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>>>> link.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>>>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>>>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>>>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>>>>
>>>>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>>>> might be relevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>>>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>>>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>>>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>>>>
>>>>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>>>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>>>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>>>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
>>>> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
>>>> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
>>>> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
>>>> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
>>>> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>>>>
>>>> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
>>>> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
>>>> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
>>>> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
>>>> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
>>>> didn't try IE.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
>>>> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
>>>> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
>>>> a week though.
>>>>
>>>> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
>>>> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
>>>> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
>>>> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
>>>> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
>>>> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
>>>> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
>>>> investigating further.
>>>>
>>>> Mark.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How do
>>> you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
>>> Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
>>> the system hangs.
>>>
>>> Peace..
>>>
>>> "The Other"  Tom
>>>
>>
>> For me the whole OS completely hangs and I have to kill the power (press
>> and hold power button for a few seconds). Ctrl+Alt+Del does nothing, mouse
>> pointer doesn't move, and num lock / caps lock don't respond (they often at
>> least toggle the keyboard lights even if nothing else responds; in this
>> case even that stops responding).
>>
>> I haven't got around to investigating thoroughly, but things I have tried
>> include:
>> - Just leaving it for over half an hour to see if it would start
>> responding again; it didn't.
>> - Checking event logs; there's nothing obviously relevant, except the
>> expected complaints during the next startup related to not having been shut
>> down properly.
>> - Keeping Task Manager / Sysinternals Process Explorer open before it
>> hangs, but there's no obvious peak in processor or memory usage, or any
>> particular process's activity - but they might just not get a chance to
>> update the display when it does hang.
>> - Some of the memory and CPU load tests from www.ultimatebootcd.com, but
>> they didn't reveal anything and didn't hang.
>>
>> Can't actually remember whether I checked the disk for errors, I think I
>> did but may be worth doing again.

Just done that. No errors found by Windows' check disk, including
checking for bad sectors.

>>
>> At some point when I have enough time I'll get the lid off and check fans,
>> heatsinks, etc. I'm half expecting to find dust or spiders clogging things
>> up...
>>
>>
> The common thing with Ady is that you both have the Avast Antivirus. An
> antivirus runs as a "system service" on Windows,
> and if something goes terribly wrong in the system service, then the whole
> operating system may misbehave.
> Since you do not have yet a set of steps to reproduce the problem, it is
> extremely difficult to figure out the issue.

My reasons for initially suspecting Windows Updates were mainly the
number of updates lately involving things such as fonts and graphics,
and that an error introduced in a previous update (KB3013455) to
Win32k.sys related to handling of fonts lead to some fonts being barely
readable. It doesn't seem inconceivable that another duff update might
occasionally hang the kernel when something (like a web browser) tries
to display a certain combination of things, possibly with specific
timing. I agree Avast is looking like another potential culprit.

Another possible case... I was cleaning some junk off someone else's
computer a couple of weeks ago, and they happened to mention that
someone else had borrowed it to check emails (presumably webmail) and
had it hang. Just a one-off as far as I know, possibly coincidental, but
that was also Windows Vista with Avast antivirus.

Not being able to reliably reproduce the hangs is somewhat frustrating.
I'm not going to have time to look in great detail for at least a couple
more weeks, but it does sound like there may be something in it. I think
the first step will be to see if I can still get it to happen more often
using the same sites I had trouble with before, though it varied between
5 minutes and several hours before a hang, possibly depending on things
like exact usage patterns and what else happened to be going on in the
background...

Mark.


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Ady Ady Ady Ady
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM,
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Simos Xenitellis wrote:
>>
>> (obviously we are off-topic)
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:46 PM, <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Williams wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ady Ady wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>     Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>>>>>     https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>>>>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>>>>> link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>>>>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>>>>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>>>>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>>>>> might be relevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>>>>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>>>>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>>>>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>>>>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>>>>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>>>>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
>>>>> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
>>>>> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
>>>>> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
>>>>> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
>>>>> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>>>>>
>>>>> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
>>>>> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>>>>>
>>>>> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
>>>>> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
>>>>> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
>>>>> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
>>>>> didn't try IE.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
>>>>> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
>>>>> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
>>>>> a week though.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
>>>>> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
>>>>> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
>>>>> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
>>>>> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
>>>>> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
>>>>> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
>>>>> investigating further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How
>>>>> do
>>>>
>>>> you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
>>>> Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
>>>> the system hangs.
>>>>
>>>> Peace..
>>>>
>>>> "The Other"  Tom
>>>>
>>>
>>> For me the whole OS completely hangs and I have to kill the power (press
>>> and hold power button for a few seconds). Ctrl+Alt+Del does nothing,
>>> mouse
>>> pointer doesn't move, and num lock / caps lock don't respond (they often
>>> at
>>> least toggle the keyboard lights even if nothing else responds; in this
>>> case even that stops responding).
>>>
>>> I haven't got around to investigating thoroughly, but things I have tried
>>> include:
>>> - Just leaving it for over half an hour to see if it would start
>>> responding again; it didn't.
>>> - Checking event logs; there's nothing obviously relevant, except the
>>> expected complaints during the next startup related to not having been
>>> shut
>>> down properly.
>>> - Keeping Task Manager / Sysinternals Process Explorer open before it
>>> hangs, but there's no obvious peak in processor or memory usage, or any
>>> particular process's activity - but they might just not get a chance to
>>> update the display when it does hang.
>>> - Some of the memory and CPU load tests from www.ultimatebootcd.com, but
>>> they didn't reveal anything and didn't hang.
>>>
>>> Can't actually remember whether I checked the disk for errors, I think I
>>> did but may be worth doing again.
>
>
> Just done that. No errors found by Windows' check disk, including checking
> for bad sectors.
>
>>>
>>> At some point when I have enough time I'll get the lid off and check
>>> fans,
>>> heatsinks, etc. I'm half expecting to find dust or spiders clogging
>>> things
>>> up...
>>>
>>>
>> The common thing with Ady is that you both have the Avast Antivirus. An
>> antivirus runs as a "system service" on Windows,
>> and if something goes terribly wrong in the system service, then the whole
>> operating system may misbehave.
>> Since you do not have yet a set of steps to reproduce the problem, it is
>> extremely difficult to figure out the issue.
>
>
> My reasons for initially suspecting Windows Updates were mainly the number
> of updates lately involving things such as fonts and graphics, and that an
> error introduced in a previous update (KB3013455) to Win32k.sys related to
> handling of fonts lead to some fonts being barely readable. It doesn't seem
> inconceivable that another duff update might occasionally hang the kernel
> when something (like a web browser) tries to display a certain combination
> of things, possibly with specific timing. I agree Avast is looking like
> another potential culprit.
>
> Another possible case... I was cleaning some junk off someone else's
> computer a couple of weeks ago, and they happened to mention that someone
> else had borrowed it to check emails (presumably webmail) and had it hang.
> Just a one-off as far as I know, possibly coincidental, but that was also
> Windows Vista with Avast antivirus.
>
> Not being able to reliably reproduce the hangs is somewhat frustrating. I'm
> not going to have time to look in great detail for at least a couple more
> weeks, but it does sound like there may be something in it. I think the
> first step will be to see if I can still get it to happen more often using
> the same sites I had trouble with before, though it varied between 5 minutes
> and several hours before a hang, possibly depending on things like exact
> usage patterns and what else happened to be going on in the background...
>
> Mark.
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted

 Thank you all for your replies, feedback and tests.

My experience has been almost exactly as Mark wrote, except for one
thing: the whole OS hung _immediately_ when clicking on the relevant
link ("RC1").

Yes, I have been bitten by the recent MS Vista updates too (e.g. the
font degradation, then having to search and manually apply the
patch...).

At least 2 things in common: Vista and Avast. Unfortunately, I don't
have an alternative system available these days. Taking the risk of
damaging the stability of my OS (whether with Avast inactive or not)
is something that, unfortunately, I cannot do these days.

Whether there is a problem related to the wiki pages, or with Vista,
or with Avast, or no problem at all, I thought it was worth posting
it.

I _might_ be able to perform some additional attempts / tests at some
point in the near future. If I have something new to comment, or some
new observation from such tests, I'll be sharing it here in the Users
Mailing List. It might be considered off-topic, but, at least in my
case, I have only seen this *complete OS hang" behavior when visiting
the aforementioned wiki pages, and nowhere else. Maybe, just a
coincidence.

Thank you and Best Regards,
Ady.

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Tom Williams Tom Williams
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

On 09/16/2015 01:39 PM, Ady Ady wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM,
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Simos Xenitellis wrote:
>>> (obviously we are off-topic)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 8:46 PM, <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Williams wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09/15/2015 01:43 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ady Ady wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Hello Users of LibreOffice,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once in a while I visit the Release Plan wiki page,
>>>>>>>     https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    From that wiki page, I recently tried to visit the "5.0.2" -> "RC1"
>>>>>>> page (more than once), but my OS hangs when I click on the relevant
>>>>>>> link.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, it could be just a coincidence. I am reluctant to try to
>>>>>>> reach these pages again, especially considering that every new wiki
>>>>>>> page in the series is based on the prior one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am using Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit, with Internet Explorer 9
>>>>>>> and Mozilla Firefox 40.0.3, all updated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The strange behavior happened with both web browsers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know whether some security tool being in use (e.g. Avast)
>>>>>>> might be relevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wanted to share this unusual experience, in case someone else
>>>>>>> happens to see it too (or something similar, or at least uncommon),
>>>>>>> and/or maybe it might be worth someone checking the source of these
>>>>>>> wiki pages (and their related nested templates).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am aware that this behavior (hanging OS) would be considered
>>>>>>> "unlikely to be triggered by some wiki page". The fact that it
>>>>>>> happened to me more than once while following the same links (but
>>>>>>> nowhere else) pushed me to at least comment on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting... I don't see a problem with that page at the moment.
>>>>>> However, since mid July I have been experiencing occasional OS hangs
>>>>>> which seem to be triggered by visiting certain web pages or sometimes
>>>>>> scrolling down the page slightly even after it's been loaded for a
>>>>>> while. Revisiting the same page doesn't necessarily trigger another
>>>>>> hang, but some pages seem to be more prone to it than others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use Windows Vista Business 32-bit, Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based
>>>>>> on Firefox 36), Avast antivirus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One site (www.discount-electrical.co.uk) seemed to be particularly
>>>>>> troublesome. At one point I couldn't even add a few items to the
>>>>>> shopping cart and check out before the OS hung. Hangs seemed to be
>>>>>> less frequent using Chrome instead, but I did still get a few. I
>>>>>> didn't try IE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had so much trouble since mid August, but then again I
>>>>>> haven't been visiting the sites which seemed to be triggering the
>>>>>> problem so much lately either. Still get a couple of unexplained hangs
>>>>>> a week though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't be certain that visiting the web sites is/was the trigger, or
>>>>>> whether that's just coincidental. As you say, it does seem unlikely!
>>>>>> If anything, I'd suspect some interaction with a Windows update or
>>>>>> perhaps Flash or Avast, since I'd just got back from holiday and
>>>>>> installed a load of updates just before the problems started. Another
>>>>>> possibility for me is overheating or failing hardware (this is a 9
>>>>>> year old laptop so getting on a bit!) but I haven't got around to
>>>>>> investigating further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, when the problem happens for you, what do you do to recover?  How
>>>>>> do
>>>>> you get the system working again?  Have you checked the Windows Event
>>>>> Viewer for log messages?  There might be a log message around the time
>>>>> the system hangs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peace..
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Other"  Tom
>>>>>
>>>> For me the whole OS completely hangs and I have to kill the power (press
>>>> and hold power button for a few seconds). Ctrl+Alt+Del does nothing,
>>>> mouse
>>>> pointer doesn't move, and num lock / caps lock don't respond (they often
>>>> at
>>>> least toggle the keyboard lights even if nothing else responds; in this
>>>> case even that stops responding).
>>>>
>>>> I haven't got around to investigating thoroughly, but things I have tried
>>>> include:
>>>> - Just leaving it for over half an hour to see if it would start
>>>> responding again; it didn't.
>>>> - Checking event logs; there's nothing obviously relevant, except the
>>>> expected complaints during the next startup related to not having been
>>>> shut
>>>> down properly.
>>>> - Keeping Task Manager / Sysinternals Process Explorer open before it
>>>> hangs, but there's no obvious peak in processor or memory usage, or any
>>>> particular process's activity - but they might just not get a chance to
>>>> update the display when it does hang.
>>>> - Some of the memory and CPU load tests from www.ultimatebootcd.com, but
>>>> they didn't reveal anything and didn't hang.
>>>>
>>>> Can't actually remember whether I checked the disk for errors, I think I
>>>> did but may be worth doing again.
>>
>> Just done that. No errors found by Windows' check disk, including checking
>> for bad sectors.
>>
>>>> At some point when I have enough time I'll get the lid off and check
>>>> fans,
>>>> heatsinks, etc. I'm half expecting to find dust or spiders clogging
>>>> things
>>>> up...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The common thing with Ady is that you both have the Avast Antivirus. An
>>> antivirus runs as a "system service" on Windows,
>>> and if something goes terribly wrong in the system service, then the whole
>>> operating system may misbehave.
>>> Since you do not have yet a set of steps to reproduce the problem, it is
>>> extremely difficult to figure out the issue.
>>
>> My reasons for initially suspecting Windows Updates were mainly the number
>> of updates lately involving things such as fonts and graphics, and that an
>> error introduced in a previous update (KB3013455) to Win32k.sys related to
>> handling of fonts lead to some fonts being barely readable. It doesn't seem
>> inconceivable that another duff update might occasionally hang the kernel
>> when something (like a web browser) tries to display a certain combination
>> of things, possibly with specific timing. I agree Avast is looking like
>> another potential culprit.
>>
>> Another possible case... I was cleaning some junk off someone else's
>> computer a couple of weeks ago, and they happened to mention that someone
>> else had borrowed it to check emails (presumably webmail) and had it hang.
>> Just a one-off as far as I know, possibly coincidental, but that was also
>> Windows Vista with Avast antivirus.
>>
>> Not being able to reliably reproduce the hangs is somewhat frustrating. I'm
>> not going to have time to look in great detail for at least a couple more
>> weeks, but it does sound like there may be something in it. I think the
>> first step will be to see if I can still get it to happen more often using
>> the same sites I had trouble with before, though it varied between 5 minutes
>> and several hours before a hang, possibly depending on things like exact
>> usage patterns and what else happened to be going on in the background...
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>  Thank you all for your replies, feedback and tests.
>
> My experience has been almost exactly as Mark wrote, except for one
> thing: the whole OS hung _immediately_ when clicking on the relevant
> link ("RC1").
>
> Yes, I have been bitten by the recent MS Vista updates too (e.g. the
> font degradation, then having to search and manually apply the
> patch...).
>
> At least 2 things in common: Vista and Avast. Unfortunately, I don't
> have an alternative system available these days. Taking the risk of
> damaging the stability of my OS (whether with Avast inactive or not)
> is something that, unfortunately, I cannot do these days.
>
> Whether there is a problem related to the wiki pages, or with Vista,
> or with Avast, or no problem at all, I thought it was worth posting
> it.
>
> I _might_ be able to perform some additional attempts / tests at some
> point in the near future. If I have something new to comment, or some
> new observation from such tests, I'll be sharing it here in the Users
> Mailing List. It might be considered off-topic, but, at least in my
> case, I have only seen this *complete OS hang" behavior when visiting
> the aforementioned wiki pages, and nowhere else. Maybe, just a
> coincidence.
>
> Thank you and Best Regards,
> Ady.
>
What if you (and Mark) try booting Windows in Safe Mode with networking
and see if you can view the page in question without hanging the system.

Peace...

"The Other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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Gordon Burgess-Parker-4 Gordon Burgess-Parker-4
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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

In reply to this post by libreoffice-ml.mbourne
On 15/09/15 21:43, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>
> I use Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based on Firefox 36),
> Mark.
>
>
And LO, so why are you bothering with Windows? Install Linux!

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Re: OS hangs while visiting a LO wiki page

Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
> On 15/09/15 21:43, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>
>> I use Mozilla SeaMonkey 2.33.1 (based on Firefox 36),
>> Mark.
>>
>>
> And LO, so why are you bothering with Windows? Install Linux!

The main limiting factor is time. Installing Linux is relatively easy;
getting everything else I currently use to work, or finding
alternatives, is rather more time consuming - there's a good deal more
than just a web browser and office suite! Some software and hardware I
use doesn't work with Linux, or at least didn't when I last tried.

I used to dual boot with Linux about 10 years ago, but never got around
to setting it up on my current laptop. Support for some things has
probably improved since then, but there are some things which I doubt
will ever be well supported (Sony SonicStage and NetMD player in
particular comes to mind). When I have time, I'll give it another shot,
but then I've been saying that for the last 10 years...

Mark.


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