On the Future of TDF

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mirek2 mirek2
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On the Future of TDF

Hi everyone,
I've been meaning to write this e-mail for a while now, but haven't gotten
around to it until now -- I hope it's still relevant.

The Next Decade Manifesto and the recent press release (available at
http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/announce/msg00016.html for those who
haven't read it yet) open up a lot of question and comments:

"TDF founders foresee a completely different future for the office suite
paradigm, which - in the actual format - is over 20 years old, to be based
on the document (where the software is a layer for the creation or the
presentation of the contents)."

What exactly does that mean for the internal structure of LibreOffice? Does
this mean that LibO will be more object-oriented?

"In addition, each single module of LibreOffice will be undergoing an
extensive rewrite, with Calc being the first one to be redeveloped around a
brand new engine - code named Ixion - that will increase performance, allow
true versatility and add long awaited database and VBA macro handling
features."

Great.

"Writer is going to be improved in the area of layout fidelity and Impress
in the area of slideshow fidelity. Most of the new features are either meant
to maintain compatibility with the market leading office suite or will
introduce radical innovations."

Can't wait to see it. I'm very curious as to what the "radical innovations"
will bring.

"The Document Foundation is going to be at the heart of the Free Software
universe, where users want to build a different future for office suites,
working together with developers."

It'd be great if TDF focused on integration and interoperability with other
open-source projects.

I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on (yes,
Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will never change
if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux, OpenOffice.org
(going forward LibreOffice) is vital.

It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Ease, and all
the other open-source editors worked together to set standards. It'd be
great, for example, if you could choose a standard open-source font triad that
was bundled with all (relevant) open-source software (and closed-source
software too) to counter MS's Times-Arial-Courier triad (and the rising
Calibri-Cambria-Candara triad). Or if you could agree on the same keyboard
shortcuts.

Lastly, it'd be nice if all the office suite powers integrated with and
helped expand websites for open-source fonts (http://openfontlibrary.org/),
clipart (http://www.openclipart.org/), and ODF templates (no central website
yet).

I'm guessing collaborating on a single extension framework is out of the
question, but would a single dictionary framework (for spelling and grammar
checks) be plausible?

"Users read, write, modify and share documents, and are focused on contents
rather than software features. After 20 years of feature oriented software,
it is now the right time to bring back content at the centre of user focus".

Does this mean that the ribbonesque UI that came out of OOo Renaissance will
be abandoned in favor of a more efficient and less distracting UI?

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Gianluca Turconi-3 Gianluca Turconi-3
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Re: On the Future of TDF

Il 14/11/2010 12.25, Mirek M. ha scritto:
> I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on (yes,
> Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will never change
> if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux, OpenOffice.org
> (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.

I hope this *won't* happen, ever.

However, I've heard and read several comments about this matter and I'd
like to see a (somehow) official statement that confirms LibO will be a
multiplatform software *forever*.

At least, as priciple. In the facts, it will depend on dev resources.
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yorick yorick
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Re: On the Future of TDF

On Monday 15 Nov 2010 00:39:09 Gianluca Turconi wrote:

> Il 14/11/2010 12.25, Mirek M. ha scritto:
> > I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on
> > (yes, Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will
> > never change if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux,
> > OpenOffice.org (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.
>
> I hope this *won't* happen, ever.
>
> However, I've heard and read several comments about this matter and I'd
> like to see a (somehow) official statement that confirms LibO will be a
> multiplatform software *forever*.
>
> At least, as priciple. In the facts, it will depend on dev resources.

Agreed, LibreO is cross platform, that is it's strength.  let's keep it that
way.

Cheers
GL


--
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OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: On the Future of TDF

2010/11/14 Graham Lauder <[hidden email]>

> On Monday 15 Nov 2010 00:39:09 Gianluca Turconi wrote:
> > Il 14/11/2010 12.25, Mirek M. ha scritto:
> > > I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on
> > > (yes, Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will
> > > never change if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux,
> > > OpenOffice.org (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.
> >
> > I hope this *won't* happen, ever.
> >
> > However, I've heard and read several comments about this matter and I'd
> > like to see a (somehow) official statement that confirms LibO will be a
> > multiplatform software *forever*.
> >
> > At least, as priciple. In the facts, it will depend on dev resources.
>
> Agreed, LibreO is cross platform, that is it's strength.  let's keep it
> that
> way.
>

I definitely agree.

What I meant was that, instead of focusing to make LibO work the best on
Windows, leaving the Mac and Linux a step behind (for example, so far, it's
pretty laborious to even install LibO beta 2 on Linux, while it's really
easy to install on Windows), TDF should focus on making LibO work the best
on Linux, and then focus on Windows and Mac OS.

>
> Cheers
> GL
>
>
> --
> Graham Lauder,
> OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
>
> OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
>
> INGOTs Assessor Trainer
> (International Grades in Open Technologies)
> www.theingots.org
>
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>


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Gianluca Turconi-3 Gianluca Turconi-3
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Re: On the Future of TDF

Il 14/11/2010 14.04, Mirek M. ha scritto:
> What I meant was that, instead of focusing to make LibO work the best on
> Windows, leaving the Mac and Linux a step behind (for example, so far, it's
> pretty laborious to even install LibO beta 2 on Linux, while it's really
> easy to install on Windows), TDF should focus on making LibO work the best
> on Linux, and then focus on Windows and Mac OS.

Well, if there will be more Linux devs than Windows/Mac devs, it'll work
that way. It's natural selection. :)
--
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Thorsten Behrens Thorsten Behrens
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Re: On the Future of TDF

In reply to this post by Gianluca Turconi-3
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
> However, I've heard and read several comments about this matter and
> I'd like to see a (somehow) official statement that confirms LibO
> will be a multiplatform software *forever*.
>
Hi Gianluca,

asking for a *forever* promise is maybe a bit too much - but rest
assured that I can't see anybody in his right mind axe Windows
support in the next ten years. ;)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: On the Future of TDF

Hi Thorsten,

2010/11/14 Thorsten Behrens <[hidden email]>

> Gianluca Turconi wrote:
> > However, I've heard and read several comments about this matter and
> > I'd like to see a (somehow) official statement that confirms LibO
> > will be a multiplatform software *forever*.
> >
> Hi Gianluca,
>
> asking for a *forever* promise is maybe a bit too much - but rest
> assured that I can't see anybody in his right mind axe Windows
> support in the next ten years. ;)
>

While we're on the topic of platform support, is there any official word on
a lightweight open-source web-based LibO version, or maybe simply lending a
helping hand to FengOffice to allow it to support ODF file editing?

>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Thorsten
>
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mordocai mordocai
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Re: On the Future of TDF

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Gianluca Turconi-3 Gianluca Turconi-3
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Re: On the Future of TDF

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens
Il 14/11/2010 23.27, Thorsten Behrens ha scritto:
> asking for a*forever*  promise is maybe a bit too much - but rest
> assured that I can't see anybody in his right mind axe Windows
> support in the next ten years.;)

Oh, well, Windows may disappear before LibO! ;-)
--
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Frank Esposito Frank Esposito
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Re: On the Future of TDF

> Oh, well, Windows may disappear before LibO! ;-)
> --
> Gianluca Turconi
>
>

we can only hope....

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BRM BRM
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Re: On the Future of TDF

----- Original Message ----

> From: Frank Esposito <[hidden email]>
> > Oh, well, Windows may disappear before LibO! ;-)
> we can only hope....

Microsoft, as of late, is moving in that direction - as a company.
They almost definitely have <20 years life left; and are quickly working to make
it under 5 years.

----- Original Message ----
> From: Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
> It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord,  Gnumeric, Ease, and all
> the other open-source editors worked together to set  standards.

It's called Open Document Format (ODF) and LibO/OOo support it.
It's managed by OASIS (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/) and has
been accepted
as an ISO standard as well.

Ben


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: On the Future of TDF

2010/11/15 BRM <[hidden email]>

> ----- Original Message ----
>
> > From: Frank Esposito <[hidden email]>
> > > Oh, well, Windows may disappear before LibO! ;-)
> > we can only hope....
>
> Microsoft, as of late, is moving in that direction - as a company.
> They almost definitely have <20 years life left; and are quickly working to
> make
> it under 5 years.
>
> Only if LibO fares better than MS Office :)


> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mirek M. <[hidden email]>
> > It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord,  Gnumeric, Ease, and
> all
> > the other open-source editors worked together to set  standards.
>
> It's called Open Document Format (ODF) and LibO/OOo support it.
> It's managed by OASIS (http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/) and
> has
> been accepted
> as an ISO standard as well.
>

I know that ODF is a standard. I meant set other standards, such as keyboard
shortcuts, default websites for content (fonts, templates, clipart,
...), symbolism, command names, default fonts (as I explained, if all the
open-source projects agreed on a triad of default fonts, these fonts could
easily gain the widespread usage as Times-Arial-Courier have enjoyed for
years), etc.


> Ben
>
>
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AG AG
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Re: On the Future of TDF

In reply to this post by mirek2
On 14/11/10 11:25, Mirek M. wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I've been meaning to write this e-mail for a while now, but haven't gotten
> around to it until now -- I hope it's still relevant.
>
> The Next Decade Manifesto and the recent press release (available at
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/announce/msg00016.html for those who
> haven't read it yet) open up a lot of question and comments:
>
> "TDF founders foresee a completely different future for the office suite
> paradigm, which - in the actual format - is over 20 years old, to be based
> on the document (where the software is a layer for the creation or the
> presentation of the contents)."
>
> What exactly does that mean for the internal structure of LibreOffice? Does
> this mean that LibO will be more object-oriented?
>
> "In addition, each single module of LibreOffice will be undergoing an
> extensive rewrite, with Calc being the first one to be redeveloped around a
> brand new engine - code named Ixion - that will increase performance, allow
> true versatility and add long awaited database and VBA macro handling
> features."
>
> Great.
>    

Yep - that +does+ sound interesting.  Any time-lines given for this or
the other improvements?

> "Writer is going to be improved in the area of layout fidelity and Impress
> in the area of slideshow fidelity. Most of the new features are either meant
> to maintain compatibility with the market leading office suite or will
> introduce radical innovations."
>
> Can't wait to see it. I'm very curious as to what the "radical innovations"
> will bring.
>    

Ditto.

> "The Document Foundation is going to be at the heart of the Free Software
> universe, where users want to build a different future for office suites,
> working together with developers."
>
> It'd be great if TDF focused on integration and interoperability with other
> open-source projects.
>    

+1

> I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on (yes,
> Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will never change
> if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux, OpenOffice.org
> (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.
>    

+1

> It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Ease, and all
> the other open-source editors worked together to set standards. It'd be
> great, for example, if you could choose a standard open-source font triad that
> was bundled with all (relevant) open-source software (and closed-source
> software too) to counter MS's Times-Arial-Courier triad (and the rising
> Calibri-Cambria-Candara triad). Or if you could agree on the same keyboard
> shortcuts.
>    

Personally, I couldn't care one way or another - I just want crisp and
clear fonts and a suitable range.

> <snip>
>    

> "Users read, write, modify and share documents, and are focused on contents
> rather than software features. After 20 years of feature oriented software,
> it is now the right time to bring back content at the centre of user focus".
>
> Does this mean that the ribbonesque UI that came out of OOo Renaissance will
> be abandoned in favor of a more efficient and less distracting UI?
>
>    

+1

This is a great aspiration: the art of software design would be similar
to the contribution the drummer makes to a song: reliable, robust, and
not too much in the way of the rest of the music.[1]  In the same way,
in order to help the user focus on the content, the workspace needs to
be paramount with the tools and options accessible and intuitive so that
the user can get on with the work and not worry about how things work
and how to accomplish common tasks.

And what I would really appreciate is a help guide that suggests *why*
someone might want to use a particular tool (especially for the more
esoteric options).  This would certainly help expand my usage of the
suite and tap into its power more effectively.

Cheers

AG

[1] Gratuitous information dept: metaphor inspired by listening to the
great grooves of Grand Funk Railroad's 1971 tour with drumming by Don
Brewer.


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timofonic timofonic timofonic timofonic
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Re: On the Future of TDF

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:38 PM, AG <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14/11/10 11:25, Mirek M. wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I've been meaning to write this e-mail for a while now, but haven't gotten
>> around to it until now -- I hope it's still relevant.
>>
>> The Next Decade Manifesto and the recent press release (available at
>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/announce/msg00016.html for those
>> who
>> haven't read it yet) open up a lot of question and comments:
>>
>> "TDF founders foresee a completely different future for the office suite
>> paradigm, which - in the actual format - is over 20 years old, to be based
>> on the document (where the software is a layer for the creation or the
>> presentation of the contents)."
>>
>> What exactly does that mean for the internal structure of LibreOffice?
>> Does
>> this mean that LibO will be more object-oriented?
>>
>> "In addition, each single module of LibreOffice will be undergoing an
>> extensive rewrite, with Calc being the first one to be redeveloped around
>> a
>> brand new engine - code named Ixion - that will increase performance,
>> allow
>> true versatility and add long awaited database and VBA macro handling
>> features."
>>
>> Great.
>>
>
> Yep - that +does+ sound interesting.  Any time-lines given for this or the
> other improvements?
>
>> "Writer is going to be improved in the area of layout fidelity and Impress
>> in the area of slideshow fidelity. Most of the new features are either
>> meant
>> to maintain compatibility with the market leading office suite or will
>> introduce radical innovations."
>>
>> Can't wait to see it. I'm very curious as to what the "radical
>> innovations"
>> will bring.
>>
>
> Ditto.
>
>> "The Document Foundation is going to be at the heart of the Free Software
>> universe, where users want to build a different future for office suites,
>> working together with developers."
>>
>> It'd be great if TDF focused on integration and interoperability with
>> other
>> open-source projects.
>>
>
> +1

I agree too, this is extremely important. Let's focus on similar goals
of all these projects instead the differences and collaborate strongly
on that. The real enemy is the propietary software and non-standards,
no other free software.

I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
(or both), and improved between all friend projects.

Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
non-interactive document converters too.

A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.

>> I'd really like to see Linux become the primary platform to focus on (yes,
>> Linux has a much smaller user base than Windows, but that will never
>> change
>> if software companies keep favoring Windows). For Linux, OpenOffice.org
>> (going forward LibreOffice) is vital.
>>
>
> +1
>
>> It would also be great if LibO, KOffice, AbiWord, Gnumeric, Ease, and all
>> the other open-source editors worked together to set standards. It'd be
>> great, for example, if you could choose a standard open-source font triad
>> that
>> was bundled with all (relevant) open-source software (and closed-source
>> software too) to counter MS's Times-Arial-Courier triad (and the rising
>> Calibri-Cambria-Candara triad). Or if you could agree on the same keyboard
>> shortcuts.
>>
>
> Personally, I couldn't care one way or another - I just want crisp and clear
> fonts and a suitable range.
>
>> <snip>
>>
>
>> "Users read, write, modify and share documents, and are focused on
>> contents
>> rather than software features. After 20 years of feature oriented
>> software,
>> it is now the right time to bring back content at the centre of user
>> focus".
>>
>> Does this mean that the ribbonesque UI that came out of OOo Renaissance
>> will
>> be abandoned in favor of a more efficient and less distracting UI?
>>
>>
>
> +1
>
> This is a great aspiration: the art of software design would be similar to
> the contribution the drummer makes to a song: reliable, robust, and not too
> much in the way of the rest of the music.[1]  In the same way, in order to
> help the user focus on the content, the workspace needs to be paramount with
> the tools and options accessible and intuitive so that the user can get on
> with the work and not worry about how things work and how to accomplish
> common tasks.
>
> And what I would really appreciate is a help guide that suggests *why*
> someone might want to use a particular tool (especially for the more
> esoteric options).  This would certainly help expand my usage of the suite
> and tap into its power more effectively.
>
> Cheers
>
> AG
>
> [1] Gratuitous information dept: metaphor inspired by listening to the great
> grooves of Grand Funk Railroad's 1971 tour with drumming by Don Brewer.
>
>
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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: On the Future of TDF

Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :

> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
>
> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
> non-interactive document converters too.
>
> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.

Hi Timofonic.

But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which
some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity.
Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between
different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal
representation.

We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like
the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike
N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes
to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the
Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest
to do so.

Marc



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timofonic timofonic timofonic timofonic
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Re: On the Future of TDF

That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.

What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
answered :)

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
>>
>> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
>> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
>> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
>> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
>> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
>> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
>>
>> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
>> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
>> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
>> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
>> non-interactive document converters too.
>>
>> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
>> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
>
> Hi Timofonic.
>
> But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which some
> of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity. Creating
> another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between different
> groups, not to mention financial backing and legal representation.
>
> We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like the
> ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike N.America
> where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes to make a
> difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the Americas as
> well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest to do so.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
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>

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marcpare4 marcpare4
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Re: On the Future of TDF

Le 2010-11-16 03:29, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
>
> What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
> answered :)
>

The ODF formats are well documented. I don't know how much more support
other FOSS related programs would need other than help with it
implementation in a particular program. I am sure that is a FOSS
developer team asked for help, someone would lend a hand.

Marc


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yorick yorick
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Re: On the Future of TDF

In reply to this post by timofonic timofonic
On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 21:29:45 timofonic timofonic wrote:
> That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
>
> What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
> answered :)

Please don't top post.

Good heavens, have you been hiding under a rock for the last couple of years,  
;)   that is the whole point of OASIS and ODF and ISO26300, It is already
supported by multiple FOSS applications and MSOffice as well, though not
well,.... yet.  The ISO format wars was long and bloody but we won.....
mostly, however the evolution continues.

cheers
GL


>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> >> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
> >> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
> >> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
> >> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
> >> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
> >> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
> >>
> >> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
> >> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
> >> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
> >> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
> >> non-interactive document converters too.
> >>
> >> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
> >> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
> >
> > Hi Timofonic.
> >
> > But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which
> > some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> > refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity.
> > Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between
> > different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal
> > representation.
> >
> > We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds like
> > the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike
> > N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes
> > to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the
> > Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest
> > to do so.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to [hidden email]
> > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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Povilas Kanapickas Povilas Kanapickas
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Re: On the Future of TDF

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Graham Lauder <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 Nov 2010 21:29:45 timofonic timofonic wrote:
> > That's interesting to know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > What about sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> > related programs? It's the other part of the idea that not got
> > answered :)
>
> Please don't top post.
>
> Good heavens, have you been hiding under a rock for the last couple of
> years,
> ;)   that is the whole point of OASIS and ODF and ISO26300, It is already
> supported by multiple FOSS applications and MSOffice as well, though not
> well,.... yet.  The ISO format wars was long and bloody but we won.....
> mostly, however the evolution continues.
>
> cheers
> GL
>
>
I think that the problem is not with the OASIS/ODF. FOSS applications have
to support MS specific formats also. In many cases most of the documents
these editors are used to deal with are in MS format. Even OO/LibO support
for these formats is not perfect, not to talk about other FOSS office
suites. So the idea of one shared library for MS specific format support is
definitely worth consideration.

Regards,
Povilas


> >
> > On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:51 AM, Marc Paré <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Le 2010-11-15 17:07, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> > >> I propose another idea: What about convert the file support of LibO
> > >> into a portable, resource efficient, well designed and multiplatform
> > >> library for all FOSS projects? I would imagine it like the WebKit of
> > >> document file formats, but governed in a less corporate way. This
> > >> library would have it´s own site into backed or being a TDF subdomain
> > >> (or both), and improved between all friend projects.
> > >>
> > >> Of course this idea would need lot's of PR, negotiate with different
> > >> projects and probably even deep changes in the original source code.
> > >> This could make not only more interoperability, but FOSS projects
> > >> having a lot stronger file type support. It could be used easily for
> > >> non-interactive document converters too.
> > >>
> > >> A strong official alliance about this and other interoperability stuff
> > >> could be very good for the FOSS productivity suite.
> > >
> > > Hi Timofonic.
> > >
> > > But we already have this with the ODF and the Oasis Consortium of which
> > > some of our members sit on their committees. We should instead propose
> > > refinements to the ODF rather than add another layer of complexity.
> > > Creating another consortium takes a lot of time and negotiation between
> > > different groups, not to mention financial backing and legal
> > > representation.
> > >
> > > We already have many cooperating groups using the ODF and it sounds
> like
> > > the ODF has made great strides in being accepted in Europe, unlike
> > > N.America where it is still quite unknown. The LO marketing team hopes
> > > to make a difference in promoting the ODF formats as well as LO in the
> > > Americas as well as everywhere it is unknown. It is all in our interest
> > > to do so.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Unsubscribe instructions: Email to [hidden email]<discuss%[hidden email]>
> > > Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> > > Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> > > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
>
> --
> Graham Lauder,
> OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
>
> OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
>
> INGOTs Assessor Trainer
> (International Grades in Open Technologies)
> www.theingots.org
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: Email to [hidden email]<discuss%[hidden email]>
> Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
>
>

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BRM BRM
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Re: On the Future of TDF

In reply to this post by marcpare4
----- Original Message ----

> From: Marc Paré <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 4:12:50 AM
> Subject: [tdf-discuss] Re: On the Future of TDF
>
> Le 2010-11-16 03:29, timofonic timofonic a écrit :
> > That's interesting to  know about OASIS, thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > What about  sharing the document file format support between FOSS
> > related programs?  It's the other part of the idea that not got
> > answered :)
> >
>
> The ODF formats are well documented. I don't know how much more support
> other FOSS related programs would need other than help with it implementation
> in  a particular program. I am sure that is a FOSS developer team asked for
>help,
> someone would lend a hand.
>

I think he means having a shared library that all the programs - LibO, KOffice,
etc.
could all use for accessing ODF.

However, that is likely unrealistic as the different programs often use very
different frameworks.
KOffice uses Qt, which is dramatically different from Gtk. I'm sure you could
probably
integrate them if you'd like, but I see no reason why you would want to and
having a single
library of that nature support multiple frameworks would be nuts and difficult
to maintain.

Ben


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