Position of caption

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John Jason Jordan-2 John Jason Jordan-2
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Position of caption

LO 6.3.4.2, Xubuntu 18.04, downloaded from LO, not from the
repositories.

I have a small bitmap graphic that I sized to be the width of the first
line of a paragraph, to which first line indent style is applied. I
modified the style to make the first line indent 21.6 pt.

I created a caption for the graphic to be below it. As far as I can
tell the paragraph style for a caption is Figure. After creating the
caption (several lines high) I wanted its entire left margin to be 21.6
pt, but it appeared to be about 35 pt or so. I had to manually set the
left margin of the caption to be 11 pt in order to make it appear at
21.6 pt. This makes no sense to me.

Worse, there is a space between the caption and the image above it, as
well as a space between the caption and the following text, and this
space is too tall. I looked at the Figure style and it was set to place
6 pt above and below, but changing them both to 0 made no difference.
None of the regular text has anything but 0 in the paragraph settings
for space above or below.

I think there is something fundamental about the spacing for captions
that I don't understand. Can someone give me a clue?

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remygauthier remygauthier
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Re: Position of caption

Hello,

Not sure on how to reproduce what you see in your environment. We are,
however, using versions that are not that far apart (6.4.4.2 on Fedora
downloaded from LO). I did the following:

 - Insert an image
- Set the anchor to "Anchor as character"
- Right-click on the image, then select Insert Caption. This will place
a frame around the image and insert some text with the format Figure as
you indicated
- Go in the frame and do the following:
   - Position the cursor on the caption
   - Hit the "Home" button to go to the beginning of the caption
   - Hit the Left arrow key to place the cursor just after the image
   - Hit Return

Doing this allowed me to position the caption correctly (both
vertically with paragraph spacing and horizontally with indentation -
make sure the caption is left justified when you play with the
indentation).

The only way I could see something similar to what you are describing
is when the image anchor is "Anchor to Paragraph" in which case the
caption (and the image for that matter) does seem to have a mind of its
own.

I hope this helps.

Rémy.


Le mardi 30 juin 2020 à 17:00 -0700, John Jason Jordan a écrit :

> LO 6.3.4.2, Xubuntu 18.04, downloaded from LO, not from the
> repositories.
>
> I have a small bitmap graphic that I sized to be the width of the first
> line of a paragraph, to which first line indent style is applied. I
> modified the style to make the first line indent 21.6 pt.
>
> I created a caption for the graphic to be below it. As far as I can
> tell the paragraph style for a caption is Figure. After creating the
> caption (several lines high) I wanted its entire left margin to be 21.6
> pt, but it appeared to be about 35 pt or so. I had to manually set the
> left margin of the caption to be 11 pt in order to make it appear at
> 21.6 pt. This makes no sense to me.
>
> Worse, there is a space between the caption and the image above it, as
> well as a space between the caption and the following text, and this
> space is too tall. I looked at the Figure style and it was set to place
> 6 pt above and below, but changing them both to 0 made no difference.
> None of the regular text has anything but 0 in the paragraph settings
> for space above or below.
>
> I think there is something fundamental about the spacing for captions
> that I don't understand. Can someone give me a clue?
>

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John Jason Jordan-2 John Jason Jordan-2
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Re: Position of caption

On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 10:05:12 -0400
Remy Gauthier <[hidden email]> dijo:

>The only way I could see something similar to what you are describing
>is when the image anchor is "Anchor to Paragraph" in which case the
>caption (and the image for that matter) does seem to have a mind of its
>own.

You are exactly correct - I had it set to Anchor to Paragraph. But when
I changed it to Anchor to Character the bottom half of the image
disappeared. I selected properties and set its size to 540 pt. wide by
54 pt high (as it should appear on the page), and in the dialog box
changed all the settings to Character. When I clicked OK the image
disappeared completely and the cursor was suddenly at the end of the
document. I don't know any way to search a document for graphics
contained in it, so I don't know where it went. It's not at the end of
the document or on page 3 where it was originally placed. I don't want
it in the document twice, so I'm reluctant to start over and enter it
again, but I guess I'll have to.

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John Jason Jordan-2 John Jason Jordan-2
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Re: Position of caption

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 08:05:29 -0700
John Jason Jordan <[hidden email]> dijo:

>On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 10:05:12 -0400
>Remy Gauthier <[hidden email]> dijo:
>
>>The only way I could see something similar to what you are describing
>>is when the image anchor is "Anchor to Paragraph" in which case the
>>caption (and the image for that matter) does seem to have a mind of
>>its own.
>
>You are exactly correct - I had it set to Anchor to Paragraph. But when
>I changed it to Anchor to Character the bottom half of the image
>disappeared. I selected properties and set its size to 540 pt. wide by
>54 pt high (as it should appear on the page), and in the dialog box
>changed all the settings to Character. When I clicked OK the image
>disappeared completely and the cursor was suddenly at the end of the
>document. I don't know any way to search a document for graphics
>contained in it, so I don't know where it went. It's not at the end of
>the document or on page 3 where it was originally placed. I don't want
>it in the document twice, so I'm reluctant to start over and enter it
>again, but I guess I'll have to.

I struggled for a couple hours trying to get the caption in the right
position, and finally I gave up. And in the process I discovered that
you can create a caption, but once created there is no way to select it
and delete it.

I selected everything on the page - all the text, including the
caption(s), and the graphic. With it all selected I did Ctrl-x to cut it
to the clipboard. Then I opened a blank document with Mousepad and
pasted it all in. Mousepad is a plain text only application, so this
deleted the graphic, any captions, and all formatting. Then I selected
it all in Mousepad, copied it to the clipboard, and did a paste special
as unformatted text into the Writer document. I reinserted my graphic
and sized and placed it as I wanted it. Then I took the part of the
text that was originally the caption and placed it below the graphic,
and applied the formatting so it appears as the caption.

The graphic now appears with what looks like a caption, but there is no
connection between the graphic and the text that follows it.

I will never again create a caption in LO.

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remygauthier remygauthier
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Re: Position of caption

In reply to this post by John Jason Jordan-2
You can find an image by using the navigator (the compass-shaped icon
on the side bar). There is an "Images" selection that opens, and you
get the list of inserted images in your document. Double-clicking on an
entry selects the image and brings you there.
The funky behaviour you are describing about your image is
unfortunately something that I do not know how to resolve. The only way
that I found that will consistently "work" is to always follow the
insert -> anchor as character -> do something with the image steps.
Anything else has always been touch and go for me. Unfortnately, you
may need to re-insert and start again.
I hope this helps.Rémy.
Le mercredi 01 juillet 2020 à 08:05 -0700, John Jason Jordan a écrit :

> On Wed, 01 Jul 2020 10:05:12 -0400Remy Gauthier <
> [hidden email]> dijo:
> > The only way I could see something similar to what you are
> > describingis when the image anchor is "Anchor to Paragraph" in
> > which case thecaption (and the image for that matter) does seem to
> > have a mind of itsown.
>
> You are exactly correct - I had it set to Anchor to Paragraph. But
> whenI changed it to Anchor to Character the bottom half of the
> imagedisappeared. I selected properties and set its size to 540 pt.
> wide by54 pt high (as it should appear on the page), and in the
> dialog boxchanged all the settings to Character. When I clicked OK
> the imagedisappeared completely and the cursor was suddenly at the
> end of thedocument. I don't know any way to search a document for
> graphicscontained in it, so I don't know where it went. It's not at
> the end ofthe document or on page 3 where it was originally placed. I
> don't wantit in the document twice, so I'm reluctant to start over
> and enter itagain, but I guess I'll have to.

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Philip Jackson-2 Philip Jackson-2
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Re: Position of caption

In reply to this post by John Jason Jordan-2
On 02/07/2020 00:25, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> I struggled for a couple hours trying to get the caption in the right
> position, and finally I gave up. And in the process I discovered that
> you can create a caption, but once created there is no way to select it
> and delete it.

A shame you're getting so much grief from images in Writer. I've used lots of images in books and I've had my share of 'incidents' with them, often unpredictable. When that happens, I generally find that the User Manual is not much use, usually out of date.

But I can insert, edit and delete captions with little problem. For me, the only time I cannot access the caption is when the frame which envelopes the image and the caption is highlighted with its little handles showing. I then click anywhere in the text of the document away from the image to deselect that frame, then I can just drop the cursor onto the caption text and edit it or remove it completely.

If the image itself is selected as distinct from the enclosing frame, then I can also place the cursor on the caption and work on it.

To get my preferred layout of caption wrt the image, I create an empty paragraph of the same style between the image and the caption (within the enclosing frame). It was the only way I could get that space. Modifying the style to increase the space above the paragraph didn't work. But I can choose whether or not to apply the spacing between paragraphs of the same type - that does work.

I also like to have more space beneath the caption before the next 'text body' style paragraph starts so I created a new style 'text after image' with a little extra spacing above the paragraph. This has always served me well.

[My current unpredictable behaviour problem concerns the Navigator. It stays where I put it for quite a while then without notice, it suddenly docks itself within the styles side-bar or across the bottom of the screen. -- There's always something ...]

Philip

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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Navigator position unstable [Was: Position of caption]

On 2020-07-02 10:22, Philip Jackson wrote:

On the original caption question, it's too bad that John Jason Jordan did not respond to your suggestion,

> ... the only time I cannot access the caption is when the frame which envelopes the image and the caption is highlighted with its little handles showing. I then click anywhere in the text of the document away from the image to deselect that frame, then I can just drop the cursor onto the caption text and edit it or remove it completely. If the image itself is selected as distinct from the enclosing frame, then I can also place the cursor on the caption and work on it.

Because we can never really know exactly the full context of a problem, I would love to know if something that elementary affects his problem.

That said, I concluded that if you and Rémy could not solve the caption problem, my poor efforts would not be likely to help, but I was most intrigued by this --

> [My current unpredictable behaviour problem concerns the Navigator. It stays where I put it for quite a while then without notice, it suddenly docks itself within the styles side-bar or across the bottom of the screen. -- There's always something ...]

-- intrigued enough to adapt the Subject line accordingly. I have never seen exactly that behavior, though I have seen something similar:

On occasions when I want the Styles and Navigator visible concurrently (that is, if the Style sidebar's own alternative Navigator function does not suffice), I leave Styles on the right sidebar and put the Navigator on the left sidebar. When both panels are on the right, any changes in the Styles control bar (say, from Styles to/from Page or Design or Properties), seems to cause shifting in the panel width and position (width never returns to a prior setting). IOW, I think the culprit is the Styles (F11) panel, not the Navigator (F5) panel.

Where do you like to leave the Navigator panel? Floating?

John

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Philip Jackson-2 Philip Jackson-2
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Re: Navigator position unstable [Was: Position of caption]

On 07/07/2020 00:52, John Kaufmann wrote:

> On 2020-07-02 10:22, Philip Jackson wrote:
> That said, I concluded that if you and Rémy could not solve the caption problem, my poor efforts would not be likely to help, but I was most intrigued by this --
>
>> [My current unpredictable behaviour problem concerns the Navigator. It stays where I put it for quite a while then without notice, it suddenly docks itself within the styles side-bar or across the bottom of the screen. -- There's always something ...]
>
> -- intrigued enough to adapt the Subject line accordingly. I have never seen exactly that behavior, though I have seen something similar:
>
> On occasions when I want the Styles and Navigator visible concurrently (that is, if the Style sidebar's own alternative Navigator function does not suffice), I leave Styles on the right sidebar and put the Navigator on the left sidebar. When both panels are on the right, any changes in the Styles control bar (say, from Styles to/from Page or Design or Properties), seems to cause shifting in the panel width and position (width never returns to a prior setting). IOW, I think the culprit is the Styles (F11) panel, not the Navigator (F5) panel.
>
> Where do you like to leave the Navigator panel? Floating?

I like to have the Styles panel open full height on the right of the screen and use the little arrow to collapse when not wanted. I activate the navigator by using the F5 key and I like it docked full height next to the Styles sidebar. If I click to retract the Styles sidebar, the Navigator may or may not stay full height on the right. It sometimes retracts with the Styles sidebar and then when pulled out again, it has placed itself inside the Styles sidebar, limiting my view of the styles.

Just occasionally the Navigator 'decides' to sit full width across the bottom of the screen.

Not a mega problem, though.

Philip


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John Kaufmann John Kaufmann
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Re: Navigator position unstable [Was: Position of caption]

On 2020-07-07 17:54, Philip Jackson wrote:
> On 07/07/2020 00:52, John Kaufmann wrote:

>> On occasions when I want the Styles and Navigator visible concurrently (that is, if the Style sidebar's own alternative Navigator function does not suffice), I leave Styles on the right sidebar and put the Navigator on the left sidebar. When both panels are on the right, any changes in the Styles control bar (say, from Styles to/from Page or Design or Properties), seems to cause shifting in the panel width and position (width never returns to a prior setting). IOW, I think the culprit is the Styles (F11) panel, not the Navigator (F5) panel.
>>
>> Where do you like to leave the Navigator panel? Floating?
>
> I like to have the Styles panel open full height on the right of the screen and use the little arrow to collapse when not wanted. I activate the navigator by using the F5 key and I like it docked full height next to the Styles sidebar. If I click to retract the Styles sidebar, the Navigator may or may not stay full height on the right. It sometimes retracts with the Styles sidebar and then when pulled out again, it has placed itself inside the Styles sidebar, limiting my view of the styles.

It sounds like our preferences are pretty similar: I used to keep both panels on the right until realizing that they don't dock well together. So it sounds like we're talking about the same unstable behavior ... though I never saw this:
>
> Just occasionally the Navigator 'decides' to sit full width across the bottom of the screen.

That said, the bottom line is:
> Not a mega problem, though.

Yes. There are more functional issues to worry about.

John

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