Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

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Tom Williams Tom Williams
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Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
word processing, it's fine.

Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
"complex documents"?

Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?

I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
document".  :)

I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.  
That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".

Thanks!

Peace...

"The other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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Dan Lewis Dan Lewis
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:

> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
> document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom
      Is the problem with Complex documents really about the complexity,
or is it about using LO and?Word on a complex document?
      I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for
OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be
complex.

Dan

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Stephen Harding Stephen Harding
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RE: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

 I've had no problem using Writer to create 200+ page documents with over a  hundred illustrations, annotated screen shots and drawings,  imported from Microsoft's Visio or LO Draw (LO Draw works best) and JPEG photos.  Also frequently use tables to show information.  The documents have many, many cross references embedded in them and four level table of contents at the beginning.

My only gripe is when you close a document and then reopen it, it opens at the beginning, not the point where you were working on it.


Best wishes,

Stephen Harding

Freelance author
Telephone desk 01256 781557
Telephone mobile 07969 469543
www.shirste.org.uk
Skype Shirley_and_Stephen_Harding



-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Lewis [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 24 July 2015 16:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:

> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a
> viable alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read
> many comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't
> seen any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  
> So, I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a
> "complex document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in
> portrait orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer
> treated the entire document as either portrait or landscape but
> couldn't handle the mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom
      Is the problem with Complex documents really about the complexity, or is it about using LO and?Word on a complex document?
      I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be complex.

Dan

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Pablo Dotro Pablo Dotro
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Dan Lewis
Hi there!
I've had experience working with LibreOffice and "complex documents". Back
in the days of Libre/OpenOffice 3.x and Office 2003, Writer was much better
than Word in handling large documents with complex formatting and a large
number of included objects (say, around 100 pages, with around 150
equations, plenty of figures as included graphics and diagrams and
book-like formatting using custom style sheets).
I understand this has changed somewhat now, with newer versions of Word
being increasingly capable of dealing with such documents.
LO Writer for me has been a solid performer in this area with each upgrade,
no big changes in functionality. I've written a book lenght technical
manual in it, and it performed superbly.
What I've never managed to achieve was good interoperatibility between
pepople using Word and LO Writer. Once an ODF, doc or docx file pases back
and forth, format details are always altered somehow, sometimes to the
point of ruining the work. It would be great if there was a format that was
really *lingua franca* between the two applications, but I do not think
that is viable.
The main complaint I've observed regarding different capabilities in MS
Office and LO comes from people that expect both products to work exactly
the same. Commonality exist between them, but each one is it's own product,
with different design, coding and debugging standards.
For large documents involving small contributions from lots of people, I've
successfully used a manual "patch" approach: I kept the "master" copy of
the document, with page and line numbering on published as PDF for
download, and accepted corrections from contributors in pure text, doc, or
odt format, and then merged them manually in my master document and
republish. It's labor intensive, and I do not think it scales well, but it
saved me a lot of time and arguments. When writing these kind of documents,
I really miss being able to have the same facilities that are available
while coding (version control with automated patch/merge funcitonality and
conflict resolution)
I hope this helps.

Pablo Dotro

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Dan Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:
>
>> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
>> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
>> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
>> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
>> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
>> word processing, it's fine.
>>
>> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
>> "complex documents"?
>>
>> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
>> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>>
>> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
>> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
>> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
>> document".  :)
>>
>> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
>> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
>> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
>> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
>> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
>> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
>> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Peace...
>>
>> "The other" Tom
>>
>      Is the problem with Complex documents really about the complexity, or
> is it about using LO and?Word on a complex document?
>      I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for
> OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be
> complex.
>
> Dan
>
> --
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> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>



--
Pablo M. Dotro, The Mage of the Many shadows
[hidden email]    [hidden email]
[hidden email] Twitter: @Pablo_El_Mago
http://www.blog.elysium.com.ar

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toki toki
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
On 07/24/2015 01:31 PM, Tom Williams wrote:

> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating "complex documents"?

This where a definition for "complex documents" is mandatory.

> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex documents"?

I've had as many as 10,000 images in a single document. OOo 2.x didn't
balk when I created it. Libo 5.0 beta does have any problems when I edit
that document.

LibO had no problems with an outline that was 50,000 pages long. (That
project is on temporary hold, whilst I verify that GIT backup for LibO
works as advertised. My current estimate is that the completed document
will be 5,000,000 pages.)

I've had as many as 10 different writing systems in one document.
LibO does has some issues correctly displaying them, especially when
they are intermixed in the same sentence, and a Pan-Unicode font is not
being used. (FWIW, when using two or more writing systems that are BiDi,
CTL, or CJVK, use a Pan-Unicode font, to minimize display issues.)

> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex document".  :)

Most commonly, when people talk about LibO's inability to handle complex
documents, they are comparing Calc with Excel, not Word with Writer.
Less frequently, it is a comparison of Impress against PowerPoint.

The major issue with Calc is the lack of an ecosystem similar to that of
Excel.
The minor issue with Calc, is that Excel templates, especially those
whose MSRP is greater than US$100,rely on both the macro language of
MSO, and various DLLs, and similar critters, that are Windows only.

The perception that Calc isn't up to the tasks that Excel can do, is
because it is trivial to find titles like _Microsoft Excel for
Scientists_, and _Microsoft Excel for Advanced Financial Forecasting_.
Similar titles for Calc are notable by their absence.

Personally, I don't use Impress, or PowerPoint.  My experience in
sitting through PowerPoint presentations, and that user either doesn't
know what the subject of the presentation is, or else doesn't know how
to write a report, or else is trying to hide data that is both
mission-critical, and unfavourable. (IOW, if being graded, the best hope
is for "fail".)

> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.

If one is not paying attention to what one is doing, when changing page
styles, one can unintentionally change the wrong pages to the wrong page
style.

jonathon


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Brian Barker Brian Barker
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
At 06:31 24/07/2015 -0700, Tom Williams wrote:

>... I've read many comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a
>good alternative to MS Office. Some say yes, others say no. One
>common comment made by those who say no is Writer isn't good for
>"complex documents". For "basic" word processing, it's fine.
>Question: in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
>"complex documents"?
>
>I've submitted an LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
>documents with pages with different page orientations well. I was
>helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in
>portrait orientation, but a few pages were in landscape. LO Writer
>treated the entire document as either portrait or landscape but
>couldn't handle the mixture of both.

It's worth saying that you are mixing your ideas here. This
experience is not about LibreOffice's facility at creating or editing
(text) documents with mixed page orientations, but about how it can
handle whatever Microsoft Word puts in its proprietary file formats
to encode similar structures. That may well matter to you, but it has
little to do with how good LibreOffice may be at achieving this
particular structure.

You surely cannot believe that it is at all difficult to create and
edit text documents with mixed page orientations in LibreOffice?

Brian Barker  


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Andreas Säger Andreas Säger
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
Am 24.07.2015 um 15:31 schrieb Tom Williams:
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>

Take some letter that had been edited by a dozend of editors because
nobody ever learned about templates. One opens the letter document,
clears the text body pastes some other document's text body, selects
here, adds bold, selects there removes underlining, adds several new
lines and so on and on.
After a dozend editing cycles the document has one or two pages with
hundreds of different text snippets, some of them just one character
wide with another font pasted from somewhere, other snippets are blank
paragraphs with all kinds of attributes.
In most MS Word documents I have seen I never know how the text will
look like when I put the cursor at some position and start typing.

A professional letter is formatted by a page setup (page style in ODF)
with 5 or 6 paragraph styles and some fields for sender info and date.
All this is stored in a template.
When you create a new document from the well prepared template, you
write the address or fill up address fields from a data source. Then you
type the message body, save and print.
Any pasted content is pasted as plain, unformatted text into the
preformatted sections.
May be you add some underlining or emphasis by means of character styles
or hard formatting but the next document starts again with a page setup,
5 or 6 paragraph styles and fields for sender info and date.

-----------------

On the OpenOffice forum we have many uploaded spreadsheet documents. I
have a Python tool to analyse the collection of differently formatted
cell ranges. Most colorful Excel sheets are stuffed with one or two
hundreds of different formatting combinations where a dozend of cell
styles would suffice to get a much cleaner formatting which could be
modified with a few clicks. Just open the content.xml of such documents
that used to be a typical Word/Excel document in a former life. If
content.xml refers to hundreds of different style definitions, you see
what I mean.


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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       As for me, I much prefer to use LO.

       Although it's not compatible with MSFT; this makes it difficult to
send a document to someone.
          I will then - if a small document, copy/paste into an e-mail or
         save as MSFT to send to them -

       and while so doing, I'm thinking, why, oh why, doesn't everyone
download LO -
          I eliminated this compatibility problem with PPs by merely
switching to videos  ;-)

       AND a definite plus for LO, when these inane MSFT hold-outs make
their documents, then send to me ... when I open in LO then save as such,
the KBs are drastically reduced ... ... ... (I guess that's due to all the
gobbledygook which MSFT adds to their program for whatever reason)

       I'm not sure what you consider a complex document, but my documents
run the gamut from pamphlets to books with images scattered throughout &
sometimes tables ... and tables are so much easier to do in LO yet next to
impossible to line up in MsFT; these really frustrate me when I have to
save as MSFT to send out  ;-)
          [I'll sometimes photograph them so they can be sent as an image
 ;-) ]

       Well, that's my experience,



From: Tom Williams <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:31 AM
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>


Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
word processing, it's fine.

Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
"complex documents"?

Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?

I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
document".  :)

I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".

Thanks!

Peace...

"The other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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jmadero jmadero
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 1:59 PM, anne-ology <[hidden email]> wrote:

>        As for me, I much prefer to use LO.
>
>        Although it's not compatible with MSFT; this makes it difficult to
> send a document to someone.
>

This is simply a false statement. "It's not compatible." Please don't give
new users a false impression of the product. It is compatible in the
majority of cases, yes there are *some* issues but often times (including
with "complex documents") everything works fine. LibreOffice can open and
save to proprietary OOXML formats and in most cases it's seamless or close
to seamless.


Best,
Joel


--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       Maybe someone would be so kind as to explain the difference between
.ODT & .OTT;
          when is the latter used & how does it differ?



From: Dan Lewis <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: [hidden email]


On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:

 Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable

> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
> document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom
>



     Is the problem with Complex documents really about the complexity, or
is it about using LO and ?Word on a complex document?
     I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for
OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be
complex.

Dan

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       I still don't understand that problem of opening at the beginning
only;
          my documents always re-open at the spot where last saved.



From: Stephen Harding <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: Dan Lewis <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]


I've had no problem using Writer to create 200+ page documents with over a
hundred illustrations, annotated screen shots and drawings,  imported from
Microsoft's Visio or LO Draw (LO Draw works best) and JPEG photos.  Also
frequently use tables to show information.  The documents have many, many
cross references embedded in them and four level table of contents at the
beginning.

My only gripe is when you close a document and then reopen it, it opens at
the beginning, not the point where you were working on it.


Best wishes,

Stephen Harding

Freelance author
Telephone desk 01256 781557
Telephone mobile 07969 469543
www.shirste.org.uk
Skype Shirley_and_Stephen_Harding




From: Dan Lewis [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 24 July 2015 16:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"

On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:

> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a
> viable alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read
> many comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't
> seen any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.
> So, I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a
> "complex document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in
> portrait orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer
> treated the entire document as either portrait or landscape but
> couldn't handle the mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I
reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom



      Is the problem with Complex documents really about the complexity, or
is it about using LO and?Word on a complex document?
      I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for
OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be
complex.

Dan

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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by anne-ology
Sorry guys, not part of the current thread, how do i start a new thread?
or question etc?

been a while, and totally forgot!!

cheers
Phil

On 24/07/2015 21:59, anne-ology wrote:

>         As for me, I much prefer to use LO.
>
>         Although it's not compatible with MSFT; this makes it difficult to
> send a document to someone.
>            I will then - if a small document, copy/paste into an e-mail or
>           save as MSFT to send to them -
>
>         and while so doing, I'm thinking, why, oh why, doesn't everyone
> download LO -
>            I eliminated this compatibility problem with PPs by merely
> switching to videos  ;-)
>
>         AND a definite plus for LO, when these inane MSFT hold-outs make
> their documents, then send to me ... when I open in LO then save as such,
> the KBs are drastically reduced ... ... ... (I guess that's due to all the
> gobbledygook which MSFT adds to their program for whatever reason)
>
>         I'm not sure what you consider a complex document, but my documents
> run the gamut from pamphlets to books with images scattered throughout &
> sometimes tables ... and tables are so much easier to do in LO yet next to
> impossible to line up in MsFT; these really frustrate me when I have to
> save as MSFT to send out  ;-)
>            [I'll sometimes photograph them so they can be sent as an image
>   ;-) ]
>
>         Well, that's my experience,
>
>
>
> From: Tom Williams <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:31 AM
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
> documents"
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
> document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom
>
> --
> /When we dance, you have a way with me,
> Stay with me... Sway with me.../
>


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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by anne-ology
-------- Original Message  --------
From: Anne-ology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:08:53 -0500

>        Maybe someone would be so kind as to explain the difference between
> .ODT & .OTT;
>           when is the latter used & how does it differ?

ODT (OpenDocument Text) = Writer Document
OTT (OpenDocument Template) = Writer Template

Opening a OTT file in Writer will create a new blank ODT document with
the attributes/styles contained in the OTT template. The OTT template is
not altered by anything added to the new ODT document.

An ODT document can be used to create an OTT template.

Suggest you read the "Styles" & "Templates" chapters of the Writer User
Guide for more detailed information:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications



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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by anne-ology
anne-ology wrote:
>        I still don't understand that problem of opening at the beginning
> only;
>           my documents always re-open at the spot where last saved.


That's because you have put a/your name in the "User Data" section of
the "Options" dialog.
This is one of the program's little peculiarities :)



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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       You're right, that was probably not the best word to choose;
           although I think I explained my meaning -
          I note you deleted that part of the e-message  ;-)

       I merely meant that when saving an LO document to MsFt, the versions
will not appear the same ...
          the spacing may be off, the images may be skewed, any tables are
out of alignment, ... ... ...
         and the MsFt document has increased in size due to all the excess
gobbledygook  ;-)



From: Joel Madero <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: anne-ology <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>




On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 1:59 PM, anne-ology <[hidden email]> wrote:

       As for me, I much prefer to use LO.
>
>        Although it's not compatible with MSFT; this makes it difficult to
> send a document to someone.
>


This is simply a false statement. "It's not compatible." Please don't give
new users a false impression of the product. It is compatible in the
majority of cases, yes there are *some* issues but often times (including
with "complex documents") everything works fine. LibreOffice can open and
save to proprietary OOXML formats and in most cases it's seamless or close
to seamless.


Best,
Joel


--
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
[hidden email]

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       huh ???

       Are you attempting to open a new document to contact this list or
what?;
          what's your question?

       You surely don't mean that you're unable to open a blank e-mail to
send a document  ;-)

       Curiously wondering,



From: Philip Ward <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: [hidden email]


Sorry guys, not part of the current thread, how do i start a new thread? or
question etc?

been a while, and totally forgot!!

cheers
Phil



On 24/07/2015 21:59, anne-ology wrote:

         As for me, I much prefer to use LO.

>
>         Although it's not compatible with MSFT; this makes it difficult to
> send a document to someone.
>            I will then - if a small document, copy/paste into an e-mail or
>           save as MSFT to send to them -
>
>         and while so doing, I'm thinking, why, oh why, doesn't everyone
> download LO -
>            I eliminated this compatibility problem with PPs by merely
> switching to videos  ;-)
>
>         AND a definite plus for LO, when these inane MSFT hold-outs make
> their documents, then send to me ... when I open in LO then save as such,
> the KBs are drastically reduced ... ... ... (I guess that's due to all the
> gobbledygook which MSFT adds to their program for whatever reason)
>
>         I'm not sure what you consider a complex document, but my documents
> run the gamut from pamphlets to books with images scattered throughout &
> sometimes tables ... and tables are so much easier to do in LO yet next to
> impossible to line up in MsFT; these really frustrate me when I have to
> save as MSFT to send out  ;-)
>            [I'll sometimes photograph them so they can be sent as an image
>   ;-) ]
>
>         Well, that's my experience,
>
>
>
> From: Tom Williams <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:31 AM
> Subject: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
> documents"
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
> word processing, it's fine.
>
> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
> "complex documents"?
>
> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>
> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
> document".  :)
>
> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peace...
>
> "The other" Tom
>
> --
> /When we dance, you have a way with me,
> Stay with me... Sway with me.../
>

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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       Isn't that what everyone does  ;-)



From: Dave Barton <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: [hidden email]


anne-ology wrote:

>        I still don't understand that problem of opening at the beginning
> only;
>           my documents always re-open at the spot where last saved.


That's because you have put a/your name in the "User Data" section of
the "Options" dialog.
This is one of the program's little peculiarities :)

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anne-ology anne-ology
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Tom Williams
       Thank you.



From: Dave Barton <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Question about LO Writer and "complex
documents"
To: [hidden email]



From: Anne-ology
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:08:53 -0500

>        Maybe someone would be so kind as to explain the difference between
> .ODT & .OTT;
>           when is the latter used & how does it differ?



ODT (OpenDocument Text) = Writer Document
OTT (OpenDocument Template) = Writer Template

Opening a OTT file in Writer will create a new blank ODT document with
the attributes/styles contained in the OTT template. The OTT template is
not altered by anything added to the new ODT document.

An ODT document can be used to create an OTT template.

Suggest you read the "Styles" & "Templates" chapters of the Writer User
Guide for more detailed information:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications

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toki toki
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by jmadero
On 07/24/2015 09:08 PM, Joel Madero wrote:

> This is simply a false statement. "It's not compatible."

That literally depends upon how "compatibility" is defined.

There are use-cases where MSO 2013 is completely, utterly, and
absolutely incompatible with MSO 2013, when installed on a different
computer.

There are use-cases when MSO 2013 and OOo 1.x are completely compatible
with each other.

jonathon


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Tom Williams Tom Williams
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Re: Question about LO Writer and "complex documents"

In reply to this post by Dan Lewis
On 07/24/2015 08:05 AM, Dan Lewis wrote:

> On 07/24/2015 09:31 AM, Tom Williams wrote:
>> Greetings!  With all of the recent discussion about Linux being a viable
>> alternative to Windows, in today's computing world, I've read many
>> comments about whether or not LibreOffice is a good alternative to MS
>> Office.  Some say yes, others say no.   One common comment made by those
>> who say no is Writer isn't good for "complex documents".  For "basic"
>> word processing, it's fine.
>>
>> Question:  in what ways does LO Writer "fail" at editing or creating
>> "complex documents"?
>>
>> Does anyone here have any experience with LO Writer and "complex
>> documents"?  If so, what has your experience been (either good or bad)?
>>
>> I know I haven't actually defined "complex documents" but I haven't seen
>> any definition of that in any of the comments I've read either.  So,
>> I'll leave the definition up to whatever you would consider a "complex
>> document".  :)
>>
>> I've submitted on LO Writer bug where Writer didn't handle Word
>> documents with pages with different page orientations well.  I was
>> helping a friend with a term paper and most of the paper was in portrait
>> orientation, but a few pages were in landscape.  LO Writer treated the
>> entire document as either portrait or landscape but couldn't handle the
>> mixture of both. I think that's been fixed, since I reported the bug.
>> That's been about my only experience with a "complex document".
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Peace...
>>
>> "The other" Tom
>      Is the problem with Complex documents really about the
> complexity, or is it about using LO and?Word on a complex document?
>      I have been working with ODF Authors to create documentation for
> OpenOffice.org and then LibreOffice. I consider these document to be
> complex.
>
> Dan
>
Unfortunately, most of the comments I had read were more of a "general"
nature, so details like the ones you raise were left out.  I think it
could be a combination or mixture of both.  Maybe in some cases,
"actual" complexity of documents was being considered and in other
cases, the perception that Writer couldn't "handle" anything other than
basic word processing tasks.

Peace...

"The other" Tom

--
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../

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