Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Howdy,

Reading over the press announcement from CIB[1] this line, "TDF branded
version relies on the global LibreOffice community for assistance and help,
while LibreOffice powered by CIB also provides online support, automatic
updates and security fixes for 18 months." raised a question after then
reading the paragraph on Window 10 S.

"Applications on the Microsoft Store use the new generation packaging
format MSIX/APPX, simple and secure, and are ready for deployment in
Windows 10 S and beyond. Windows 10 S mode is a simplified version of
Windows 10 for security and performance which offers the same experience.
To improve security, it only allows Microsoft Store apps and requires
Microsoft Edge for browsing."

Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99 package?
Either for current Windows 10 users or someone on Win 10 S, which it sounds
like would need the MS Store do do so.

Thanks and best wishes,

Drew

[1]
https://blog.cib.de/2019/08/08/cib-announces-libreoffice-on-the-microsoft-store/

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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Bump.

Is this the wrong place to ask this question?

Yes I know it was bad timing with the holidays but I really wanted to share
this into a MS centric SM group and I suspect that is an important question
to answer as part of that.

BTW - I've reading about WIN 10 S and I think that makes this a fairly big
deal but perhaps I'm missing something subtle there.

Thanks again and best wishes for the coming new year,

Drew

On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 7:10 PM Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Reading over the press announcement from CIB[1] this line, "TDF branded
> version relies on the global LibreOffice community for assistance and help,
> while LibreOffice powered by CIB also provides online support, automatic
> updates and security fixes for 18 months." raised a question after then
> reading the paragraph on Window 10 S.
>
> "Applications on the Microsoft Store use the new generation packaging
> format MSIX/APPX, simple and secure, and are ready for deployment in
> Windows 10 S and beyond. Windows 10 S mode is a simplified version of
> Windows 10 for security and performance which offers the same experience.
> To improve security, it only allows Microsoft Store apps and requires
> Microsoft Edge for browsing."
>
> Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99
> package? Either for current Windows 10 users or someone on Win 10 S, which
> it sounds like would need the MS Store do do so.
>
> Thanks and best wishes,
>
> Drew
>
> [1]
> https://blog.cib.de/2019/08/08/cib-announces-libreoffice-on-the-microsoft-store/
>

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Cley Faye Cley Faye
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Hi,

Maybe it is not the right place. I didn't read anything in either that
announcement, the store pages, or their website about any involvement from
The Document Foundation itself. If there was some, it's not hinted at all
anywhere.
If I'm right, the correct place to ask for support would be CIB themselves,
as that's essentially what they add to the package.

Le mar. 31 déc. 2019 à 18:26, Drew Jensen <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

> Bump.
>
> Is this the wrong place to ask this question?
>
> Yes I know it was bad timing with the holidays but I really wanted to share
> this into a MS centric SM group and I suspect that is an important question
> to answer as part of that.
>
> BTW - I've reading about WIN 10 S and I think that makes this a fairly big
> deal but perhaps I'm missing something subtle there.
>
> Thanks again and best wishes for the coming new year,
>
> Drew
>
> On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 7:10 PM Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Reading over the press announcement from CIB[1] this line, "TDF branded
> > version relies on the global LibreOffice community for assistance and
> help,
> > while LibreOffice powered by CIB also provides online support, automatic
> > updates and security fixes for 18 months." raised a question after then
> > reading the paragraph on Window 10 S.
> >
> > "Applications on the Microsoft Store use the new generation packaging
> > format MSIX/APPX, simple and secure, and are ready for deployment in
> > Windows 10 S and beyond. Windows 10 S mode is a simplified version of
> > Windows 10 for security and performance which offers the same experience.
> > To improve security, it only allows Microsoft Store apps and requires
> > Microsoft Edge for browsing."
> >
> > Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99
> > package? Either for current Windows 10 users or someone on Win 10 S,
> which
> > it sounds like would need the MS Store do do so.
> >
> > Thanks and best wishes,
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://blog.cib.de/2019/08/08/cib-announces-libreoffice-on-the-microsoft-store/
> >
>
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Howdy,

Well, there is a connection but I understand your point.

The CIB announcement is clear when it comes to support with the line:
"TDF branded version relies on the global LibreOffice community for
assistance and help"

So ask.libreOffice.org for help and assistance but my question is about
online updates and security patches for the TDF branded package and
particularly if the customer is running Win 10 S.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and find an email address for CIB and try that,
thanks.

Drew

PS - I'll bring back whatever I learn to this thread because I can't be the
only one wondering.


On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 12:31 PM Cley Faye <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Maybe it is not the right place. I didn't read anything in either that
> announcement, the store pages, or their website about any involvement from
> The Document Foundation itself. If there was some, it's not hinted at all
> anywhere.
> If I'm right, the correct place to ask for support would be CIB themselves,
> as that's essentially what they add to the package.
>
> Le mar. 31 déc. 2019 à 18:26, Drew Jensen <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
>
> > Bump.
> >
> > Is this the wrong place to ask this question?
> >
> > Yes I know it was bad timing with the holidays but I really wanted to
> share
> > this into a MS centric SM group and I suspect that is an important
> question
> > to answer as part of that.
> >
> > BTW - I've reading about WIN 10 S and I think that makes this a fairly
> big
> > deal but perhaps I'm missing something subtle there.
> >
> > Thanks again and best wishes for the coming new year,
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 21, 2019 at 7:10 PM Drew Jensen <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > Reading over the press announcement from CIB[1] this line, "TDF branded
> > > version relies on the global LibreOffice community for assistance and
> > help,
> > > while LibreOffice powered by CIB also provides online support,
> automatic
> > > updates and security fixes for 18 months." raised a question after then
> > > reading the paragraph on Window 10 S.
> > >
> > > "Applications on the Microsoft Store use the new generation packaging
> > > format MSIX/APPX, simple and secure, and are ready for deployment in
> > > Windows 10 S and beyond. Windows 10 S mode is a simplified version of
> > > Windows 10 for security and performance which offers the same
> experience.
> > > To improve security, it only allows Microsoft Store apps and requires
> > > Microsoft Edge for browsing."
> > >
> > > Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99
> > > package? Either for current Windows 10 users or someone on Win 10 S,
> > which
> > > it sounds like would need the MS Store do do so.
> > >
> > > Thanks and best wishes,
> > >
> > > Drew
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://blog.cib.de/2019/08/08/cib-announces-libreoffice-on-the-microsoft-store/
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
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> >
>
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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

In reply to this post by drew-gmail
Hi Drew,

Drew Jensen wrote:
> Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99
> package?
>
Indeed, we're updating LibreOffice Vanilla (more or less) in lock-step
with the TDF releases. Unfortunately 6.3.4 is not yet available, due
to a smallish validation issue & vacation time.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Howdy Thorsten,

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 1:27 AM Thorsten Behrens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Drew,
>
> Drew Jensen wrote:
> > Are there any automatic updates with the Vanilla LibreOffice $9.99
> > package?
> >
> Indeed, we're updating LibreOffice Vanilla (more or less) in lock-step
> with the TDF releases. Unfortunately 6.3.4 is not yet available, due
> to a smallish validation issue & vacation time.
>

Thanks for getting back to me.

Really my question just comes down to how I should read one sentence in the
CIB press release.

"TDF branded version relies on the global LibreOffice community for
assistance and help, while LibreOffice powered by CIB also provides online
support, automatic updates and security fixes for 18 months."

Does that mean:
Vanilla Libreoffice includes community support and online updates and
security fixes for 18 months (via the MS Store)
while
LibreOffice powered by CIB, includes CIB support and online updates and
security fixes for 18 months (via the MS Store)

Other than that I was curious as to which version of LO would come with
Vanilla and I take it from your reply that today this would be 6.3.3; so
may I take it the general answer is, Vanilla from the MS Store is the
current Fresh release?

That's was it again thanks for your time.

Best wishes

Drew

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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Hi Drew,

Drew Jensen wrote:
> Really my question just comes down to how I should read one sentence in the
> CIB press release.
>
and

> Other than that I was curious as to which version of LO would come
> with Vanilla and I take it from your reply that today this would be
> 6.3.3; so may I take it the general answer is, Vanilla from the MS
> Store is the current Fresh release?
>
Yes, that one; and that includes minor updates (as long as TDF does
them). :)

In general, app stores add a layer of convenience, where especially
minor updates are easy & almost invisible to users. The downside is
that users then don't tend to visit libreoffice.org for updates;
therefore are not seeing the options for donation; therefore the
upfront price tag in lieu of donation.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Howdy,

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 4:19 PM Thorsten Behrens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> Yes, that one; and that includes minor updates (as long as TDF does
> them). :)
>
> In general, app stores add a layer of convenience, where especially
> minor updates are easy & almost invisible to users. The downside is
> that users then don't tend to visit libreoffice.org for updates;
> therefore are not seeing the options for donation; therefore the
> upfront price tag in lieu of donation.
>
>
I know it was bit pedantic but I really wanted to be sure I understood.

So, just now I see this over on twitter
https://twitter.com/RensStehouwer/status/1214837011997241344
"Damn, the @Microsoft office pricing model sucks.
I don't want a subscription and I don't want to pay
€300 for a dressed down version for two persons,
just because I got a new pc.
I'm using @libreoffice from now on,
and I'm advising everyone to do the same."
with an interesting reply about Collabora Office for Android.

So, seems to me that this Twitter user is a candidate for the MS Store
subscription.
Why would they want to do that?
1st; this isn't a lease of software. It won't stop working after the
subscription period.
2nd; the convenience of real automatic updates during the 18 months.
3rd; reasonable and fair price for the update service. With part of the
funds going directly towards shared community work.

Anyway - thanks again, Thorsten.

I'll go write a draft for the SM post and I think put it to the list before
I share it - in a separate thread.

Best wishes
Drew

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William Gathoye (LibreOffice) William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Hi there,

On 10/01/2020 01:48, Drew Jensen wrote:

> 2nd; the convenience of real automatic updates during the 18 months.
> 3rd; reasonable and fair price for the update service. With part of the
> funds going directly towards shared community work.

IMHO, the 18 months security update is not valid for the LibreOffice
Vanilla version but rather for the "LibreOffice by CIB" version.

I understood it like this. If the description was expected to mean
something else, then it will need to be reworded IMHO.


--
William Gathoye
Hyper<hack>tive volunteer for LibreOffice
Proud member of The Document Foundation
Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice

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William Gathoye (LibreOffice) William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens-6
Hi there,

On 06/01/2020 02:01, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> Indeed, we're updating LibreOffice Vanilla (more or less) in lock-step
> with the TDF releases. Unfortunately 6.3.4 is not yet available, due
> to a smallish validation issue & vacation time.

I'm following on this, because after the Windows 7 deprecation notice
from yesterday[0], the LibreOfficeFR channel is flooded by questions
wrt. LibreOffice Vanilla provided by CIB.

One user has reported to me 3 issues he has been experiencing:

- LibreOffice Vanilla is only available in English and German, other
languages are absent from the interfaces and from the options. The
Microsoft account he uses is well defined in French (France) and the
Windows he uses is using the same language

- LibreOffice Vanilla is reported as a 32-bit app by the Windows Task
Manager.

- And lastly, even if you said new version are not available yet
(because of holidays), the version I have access to hasn't been updated
since 2019-07-22 according to the Microsoft Store. It's weird it is
displaying "Release date" rather than "Last update date" and the
LibreOffice version is missing from the description, how come? Is this a
restriction from Microsoft?

Also, if you need help in providing a more up to date version, or are
just missing time, feel free to ask us for help :) Always willing to
bring help and experience.

[0] https://twitter.com/LibreOfficeFR/status/1217040596369575939
[1] https://twitter.com/ombredetenebres/status/1216896382663041031
[2] https://www.microsoft.com/fr-be/p/libreoffice-vanilla/9npr3bznj4dm


--
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Proud member of The Document Foundation
Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice

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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Hi William,

William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:
> - LibreOffice Vanilla is only available in English and German, other
> languages are absent from the interfaces and from the options. The
> Microsoft account he uses is well defined in French (France) and the
> Windows he uses is using the same language
>
Thx for that feedback! I'll look into it - there's no good reason
LibreOffice from the store shouldn't have the same number of languages
than from libreoffice.org.

> - LibreOffice Vanilla is reported as a 32-bit app by the Windows Task
> Manager.
>
Yes, that's on purpose. We're currently offering _one_ version there,
and there's still quite a few users only able to run 32bit software.

> - And lastly, even if you said new version are not available yet
> (because of holidays), the version I have access to hasn't been updated
> since 2019-07-22 according to the Microsoft Store. It's weird it is
> displaying "Release date" rather than "Last update date" and the
> LibreOffice version is missing from the description, how come? Is this a
> restriction from Microsoft?
>
Heh - that's the initial release date of the product - the version
currently available is 6.3.3.2; 6.3.4.2 is sadly stuck in the review
queue.

With regard to general feedback - I wonder how the community would
feel about various options, e.g. directing users to askbot, or
bugzilla, or telegram? Clearly twitter is not a scalable way to file
bug reports. ;)

All the best,

-- Thorsten
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William Gathoye (LibreOffice) William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

Hi Thorsten,

On 15/01/2020 15:03, Thorsten Behrens wrote:

> Thx for that feedback! I'll look into it - there's no good reason
> LibreOffice from the store shouldn't have the same number of languages
> than from libreoffice.org.

I checked by myself by buying the app on the MS Store and installing it
on a fresh Windows 10 Pro 1909 (November update) VM. I can confirm only
English (South-Africa, UK, and USA) and German (Germany) are being
installed. :/

> Yes, that's on purpose. We're currently offering _one_ version there,
> and there's still quite a few users only able to run 32bit software.

Any technical reason to this? I have reread the doc and it implies that
the app can only contain one bitness as Target Processor Architecture.
If we want 64 and 32bit support, we need to define 64-bit and bundle the
32 bit version in it as well.

This is how I actually understood the concept with this sentence which
may be a bit unclear though: `If the Target Processor Architecture for
your app is x64 processor type, the app package must contain x64 binary
or image type files. Note that in this case the package can also include
x86 files, but the primary app experience should utilize the x64 binary` [1]

I don't know whether specifying Target Processor Architecture to 64 bit
is only limiting to 64 bit devices...

*But*, unless I'm wrong, with the bunch of the users I helped via the
LibreOfficeFR twitter account via TeamViewer, I never saw a Windows 10 S
in a 32 bit variant. In my opinion, Windows 10 S has been built for 64
bit chips only IMHO, so supporting 32 bit *seems* irrelevant here.

Unless we are supporting the MS Store from Windows 8.1?

> Heh - that's the initial release date of the product - the version
> currently available is 6.3.3.2; 6.3.4.2 is sadly stuck in the review
> queue.

Ok this is indeed a limitation of the MS Store. I can confirm this is
indeed version 6.3.3.2 that is installed on my side. Unless I'm blind,
the latest version available can only be seen *after the installation*.
How stupid is that? ;(

> With regard to general feedback - I wonder how the community would
> feel about various options, e.g. directing users to askbot, or
> bugzilla, or telegram? Clearly twitter is not a scalable way to file
> bug reports. ;)

Indeed Twitter isn't a bug reporting tool, but is great to catch
attention and redirect the end user to the right team/instance :).

So to your question, I would say redirecting to language specific Ask
instances without hesitation. Telegram and especially Bugzilla are out
of range for common users IMHO.

Regards,

[1]
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/debug-test-perf/windows-desktop-bridge-app-tests#4-platform-appropriate-files-test

--
William Gathoye
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Proud member of The Document Foundation
Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice

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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

In reply to this post by William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
Hi William, all,

a quick update - after getting 6.3.5 finally shepherded through a
while ago, we've now switched to the 6.4 series, with currently 6.4.3
being available in the Windows Store.

William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:
> - LibreOffice Vanilla is only available in English and German, other
> languages are absent from the interfaces and from the options. The
> Microsoft account he uses is well defined in French (France) and the
> Windows he uses is using the same language
>
We're now shipping all available langs with the Store App. If there's
still issues with e.g. French users to obtain the version, please let
me know!

> - LibreOffice Vanilla is reported as a 32-bit app by the Windows Task
> Manager.
>
Yeap, that's a reasonable common denominator. We're looking into
providing a joint offering with x64 as well (and not blowing size
limits).

> - And lastly, even if you said new version are not available yet
> (because of holidays), the version I have access to hasn't been updated
> since 2019-07-22 according to the Microsoft Store. It's weird it is
> displaying "Release date" rather than "Last update date" and the
> LibreOffice version is missing from the description, how come? Is this a
> restriction from Microsoft?
>
Yep. The version number in the package we ship to Microsoft is always
faithfully reporting the actual LibreOffice release (minus the micro
release - e.g. current version has "6.4.3.0").

All the best,

-- Thorsten
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drew-gmail drew-gmail
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Re: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 3:22 AM Thorsten Behrens <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi William, all,
>
> a quick update - after getting 6.3.5 finally shepherded through a
> while ago, we've now switched to the 6.4 series, with currently 6.4.3
> being available in the Windows Store.
>

Excellent - is this switch from one major release to the next during on the
third minor release to be an expected pattern?
In other words is this how CIB will handle the dual version under release
from TDF, using the third minor release as marking it as ready for "paying"
customers?


>
> William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:
> > - LibreOffice Vanilla is only available in English and German, other
> > languages are absent from the interfaces and from the options. The
> > Microsoft account he uses is well defined in French (France) and the
> > Windows he uses is using the same language
> >
> We're now shipping all available langs with the Store App. If there's
> still issues with e.g. French users to obtain the version, please let
> me know!
>

Sounds like big news. Will there be a press release, or other, public
statement from CIB on that?
I was about to post to SM about this change but if there is one coming I'll
hold off til I can point to something from CIB.

Best wishes,

Drew

>
> > - LibreOffice Vanilla is reported as a 32-bit app by the Windows Task
> > Manager.
> >
> Yeap, that's a reasonable common denominator. We're looking into
> providing a joint offering with x64 as well (and not blowing size
> limits).
>
> > - And lastly, even if you said new version are not available yet
> > (because of holidays), the version I have access to hasn't been updated
> > since 2019-07-22 according to the Microsoft Store. It's weird it is
> > displaying "Release date" rather than "Last update date" and the
> > LibreOffice version is missing from the description, how come? Is this a
> > restriction from Microsoft?
> >
> Yep. The version number in the package we ship to Microsoft is always
> faithfully reporting the actual LibreOffice release (minus the micro
> release - e.g. current version has "6.4.3.0").
>
> All the best,
>
> -- Thorsten
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Thorsten Behrens-6 Thorsten Behrens-6
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Update regime for Store versions (was: Question regarding Microsoft Store download of Vanilla Libreoffice)

Hi Drew,

Drew Jensen wrote:
> Excellent - is this switch from one major release to the next during on the
> third minor release to be an expected pattern?
>
Mmh - wouldn't want to enshrine that just _yet_. ;)

For the store, as we push mandatory updates (such that people who
donated once keep getting their security fixes), there comes the time
when we _need_ to major-upgrade ~everyone.

Right now, the number of users from the Windows store is low, so we
can experiment a bit perhaps. There's four options that I currently
see:

1. publish every major update as a completely new product (which would
   currently mean that people need to pay again - or risk running
   unmaintained versions)
2. switch everyone with a forced update to the new major version on
   day one
3. switch everyone with a forced update to the new major version at
   some suitable later date (as happened here)
4. switch everyone with a forced update to the latest major version at
   the time the still version becomes EOLed

There's potentially more nuances (keeping a major update optional for
a while), but that's a bit in flux currently, what the Store allows
technically.

I did consider option 3 a good compromise between end-user and project
needs, so opted for that. But the project might want to consider other
regimes (or we could test them out). There's also perhaps a bit of a
risk contradicting our still/fresh release branding too much on the
stores.

> Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> > We're now shipping all available langs with the Store App. If there's
> > still issues with e.g. French users to obtain the version, please let
> > me know!
> >
>
> Sounds like big news. Will there be a press release, or other, public
> statement from CIB on that?
> I was about to post to SM about this change but if there is one coming I'll
> hold off til I can point to something from CIB.
>
Nah, please fire away! It's more of a bugfix in my mind (though the
package size is really quite a bit more bulky than the original
MSI...).

Cheers,

-- Thorsten
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