RFE process between QA and UX

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
sophi sophi
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RFE process between QA and UX

Hi all,

Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
concerning minor enhancements these last days.
It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
to discuss UX enhancements.

So it would be much more efficient for both teams to:
- first discuss the enhancement here or on redmine (I don't know your
process :)
- then fill a RFE when it's consolidated with all the needed info for
the QA team
- let the UX team confirm it quickly so it goes out the QA review
process and stats.

Thanks in advance for your help here!
Cheers
Sophie

--
Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
Tel:+33683901545
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Jan Holesovsky-4 Jan Holesovsky-4
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

Hi Sophie,

Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 16:57 +0100:

> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
> to discuss UX enhancements.

Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)  Asking
because:

> So it would be much more efficient for both teams to:
> - first discuss the enhancement here or on redmine (I don't know your
> process :)

If it is something small that is obviously the right thing to do (like
some wording fix or so) - then it would be awesome to encourage the
reporter to fix it himself / herself & send a patch via gerrit.

If it is something bigger, then sending the bug id here to the ML is OK
of course; or add it to the weekly hangout agenda, so that we discuss it
there.

> - then fill a RFE when it's consolidated with all the needed info for
> the QA team
> - let the UX team confirm it quickly so it goes out the QA review
> process and stats.

I'd say - either confirm (if the idea sounds interesting), or close as
wontfix ;-)

Thanks a lot,
kendy


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

In reply to this post by sophi
@Sophi,  *,

Kendy may have a different take, but Design/UX elected to not try to do this on Redmine.

The rub comes in that when posted to Bugzilla, the actions are opened Unconfirmed.  But they are not issues requiring QA, although anyone should fell welcome to comment and get involved from a UX perspective.

Guess issue can simply be set new on opening, and always assign to ux-advise component.  Work flow would be to keep  these issues open (or maybe needinfo) in ux-advise until Design/UX-advise folks agree to move it forward for development, or close it out.

Having the proposal in bugzilla greatly simplifies review and discussion during Design Hangouts.  But understand the QA thrash having the additional bugs cluttering the stats--simple compromise as above.

Stuart
sophi sophi
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

In reply to this post by Jan Holesovsky-4
Hi Kendy,
Le 16/12/2014 18:50, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

> Hi Sophie,
>
> Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 16:57 +0100:
>
>> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
>> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
>> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
>> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
>> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
>> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
>> to discuss UX enhancements.
>
> Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
or see this list:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&component=ux-advise&email1=philipz85%40hotmail.co&emailtype1=substring&list_id=505514&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced

  Asking
> because:
>
>> So it would be much more efficient for both teams to:
>> - first discuss the enhancement here or on redmine (I don't know your
>> process :)
>
> If it is something small that is obviously the right thing to do (like
> some wording fix or so) - then it would be awesome to encourage the
> reporter to fix it himself / herself & send a patch via gerrit.

yes, but if the patch is reverted or not needed, it will be frustrating
either for the implementer and for the developers. Not every idea is
good to put on BZ or in a patch, a little discussion before would help
to see if it's need, could be implemented or not :)

>
> If it is something bigger, then sending the bug id here to the ML is OK
> of course; or add it to the weekly hangout agenda, so that we discuss it
> there.
>
>> - then fill a RFE when it's consolidated with all the needed info for
>> the QA team
>> - let the UX team confirm it quickly so it goes out the QA review
>> process and stats.
>
> I'd say - either confirm (if the idea sounds interesting), or close as
> wontfix ;-)

Yes, but that is a lot of work for bug triagers. If you well know the
functionality, it's easy to discriminate, but for QA people who do not
have that knowledge, the lack of steps to reproduce, examples, etc. is
very time consuming plus the fact that he won't know what to do with it
(50% of users would like to have it and the other 50% won't), when it
can be solved quickly by discussing a little bit.

Cheers
Sophie

--
Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
Tel:+33683901545
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
sophi sophi
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

In reply to this post by V Stuart Foote
Hi Stuart, all

Le 16 déc. 2014 21:10, "V Stuart Foote" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> @Sophi,  *,
>
> Kendy may have a different take, but Design/UX elected to not try to do
this
> on Redmine.

Ok, no problem, as said I'm not aware of your workflow.
>
> The rub comes in that when posted to Bugzilla, the actions are opened
> Unconfirmed.  But they are not issues requiring QA, although anyone should
> fell welcome to comment and get involved from a UX perspective.

Yes, I understand
>
> Guess issue can simply be set new on opening, and always assign to
ux-advise
> component.  Work flow would be to keep  these issues open (or maybe
> needinfo) in ux-advise until Design/UX-advise folks agree to move it
forward
> for development, or close it out.

Ok, this is something I'll propose on the QA meeting tomorrow
>
> Having the proposal in bugzilla greatly simplifies review and discussion
> during Design Hangouts.  But understand the QA thrash having the
additional
> bugs cluttering the stats--simple compromise as above.

Ok, thanks for your further explanation. The things is that most of the
times QA team has no clue if it's a valid enhancement or not (because of
missing info in the bug, knowledge, etc). So either they could close a
valid request or accept one which is not possible to implement. See the
example with conditional formating and contextual menu where it now applies
to a range and not a cell.
For both, the submitters and the reviewers, this is not a good workflow.
But what you proposed is a great compromise.  Thanks Stuart for all what
you do in our project and the way you do it  :-)
Cheers
Sophie

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Jan Holesovsky-4 Jan Holesovsky-4
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

In reply to this post by sophi
Hi Sophie,

Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 19:16 +0100:

>  
> >> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
> >> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
> >> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
> >> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
> >> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
> >> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
> >> to discuss UX enhancements.
> >
> > Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
> or see this list:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&component=ux-advise&email1=philipz85%40hotmail.co&emailtype1=substring&list_id=505514&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced

Ah! - so Jay is a very active member of the Design Team, and discusses
his proposals the right way; so I am not really concerned about these
reports :-) - they will be handled properly, I am sure.

So to get them out of the stats - does the NEEDINFO + ux-advise
component (as Stuart proposed) work for you, Sophie?  Jay - can you
please mark your reports that way if yes?

> Yes, but that is a lot of work for bug triagers. If you well know the
> functionality, it's easy to discriminate, but for QA people who do not
> have that knowledge, the lack of steps to reproduce, examples, etc. is
> very time consuming plus the fact that he won't know what to do with it
> (50% of users would like to have it and the other 50% won't), when it
> can be solved quickly by discussing a little bit.

Sure, as I did not have the examples, I did not know exactly what you
had in mind :-)

All the best,
Kendy


--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
sophi sophi
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

Hi Kendy, all,
Le 17/12/2014 12:47, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :

> Hi Sophie,
>
> Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 19:16 +0100:
>>  
>>>> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
>>>> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
>>>> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
>>>> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
>>>> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
>>>> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
>>>> to discuss UX enhancements.
>>>
>>> Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)
>>
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
>> or see this list:
>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&component=ux-advise&email1=philipz85%40hotmail.co&emailtype1=substring&list_id=505514&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced
>
> Ah! - so Jay is a very active member of the Design Team, and discusses
> his proposals the right way; so I am not really concerned about these
> reports :-) - they will be handled properly, I am sure.

ok, no problem, Jay is an example (and great to see him so active here
now :) but that will help to set the good process between the teams.
>
> So to get them out of the stats - does the NEEDINFO + ux-advise
> component (as Stuart proposed) work for you, Sophie?  Jay - can you
> please mark your reports that way if yes?

Well, I'm only the messenger here. So let me make the proposal to the QA
team during their meeting this evening, and I'll report back to you, but
I guess they will be ok with Stuart proposal and yours.

>
>> Yes, but that is a lot of work for bug triagers. If you well know the
>> functionality, it's easy to discriminate, but for QA people who do not
>> have that knowledge, the lack of steps to reproduce, examples, etc. is
>> very time consuming plus the fact that he won't know what to do with it
>> (50% of users would like to have it and the other 50% won't), when it
>> can be solved quickly by discussing a little bit.
>
> Sure, as I did not have the examples, I did not know exactly what you
> had in mind :-)

Ok, thanks a lot to Stuart and you to help me clarify it :)
Cheers
Sophie

--
Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
Tel:+33683901545
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
jphilipz jphilipz
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

Hi All,

This all seems to be coming down to my current workflow about
enhancement bugs that i'm opening. To my knowledge, there has been only
two bug reports that i have not given enough information, which resulted
in them being set to NEEDINFO, which i then followed up with more
information.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87362
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86627

As i'm opening enhancement requests, sometimes i seek the advise of more
experienced users to know whether the enhancement is a good idea or not,
which can be seen in the two examples previously quoted.

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357

If the QA team doesnt wish to give their input into these enhancement
requests, then i think the simplest thing to do is to set them all as
ux-advise rather than what i currently do of assigning it to the
component and CC ux-advise. I guess my main issue is not knowing what is
considered ux-advise and what isnt.

Regards,
Jay Philips

On 12/17/2014 06:08 PM, Sophie wrote:

> Hi Kendy, all,
> Le 17/12/2014 12:47, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
>> Hi Sophie,
>>
>> Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 19:16 +0100:
>>>  
>>>>> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
>>>>> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
>>>>> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
>>>>> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
>>>>> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
>>>>> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
>>>>> to discuss UX enhancements.
>>>>
>>>> Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)
>>>
>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
>>> or see this list:
>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&component=ux-advise&email1=philipz85%40hotmail.co&emailtype1=substring&list_id=505514&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced
>>
>> Ah! - so Jay is a very active member of the Design Team, and discusses
>> his proposals the right way; so I am not really concerned about these
>> reports :-) - they will be handled properly, I am sure.
>
> ok, no problem, Jay is an example (and great to see him so active here
> now :) but that will help to set the good process between the teams.
>>
>> So to get them out of the stats - does the NEEDINFO + ux-advise
>> component (as Stuart proposed) work for you, Sophie?  Jay - can you
>> please mark your reports that way if yes?
>
> Well, I'm only the messenger here. So let me make the proposal to the QA
> team during their meeting this evening, and I'll report back to you, but
> I guess they will be ok with Stuart proposal and yours.
>>
>>> Yes, but that is a lot of work for bug triagers. If you well know the
>>> functionality, it's easy to discriminate, but for QA people who do not
>>> have that knowledge, the lack of steps to reproduce, examples, etc. is
>>> very time consuming plus the fact that he won't know what to do with it
>>> (50% of users would like to have it and the other 50% won't), when it
>>> can be solved quickly by discussing a little bit.
>>
>> Sure, as I did not have the examples, I did not know exactly what you
>> had in mind :-)
>
> Ok, thanks a lot to Stuart and you to help me clarify it :)
> Cheers
> Sophie
>

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
sophi sophi
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

Hi all,

So following the discussion we had yesterday during the QA meeting
(thanks Jay for your participation :) we agreed that issues created by
UX/Design members will be set as NEW and assigned to UX-advice.
The QA wiki pages will be modified to reflect this change.

We have clarified with Jay what type of enhancements should go under the
UX-advice category.
I hope everything is fine for everybody now, don't hesitate to let me
know if there is questions remaining :)
Thanks to all for your help solving this!
Cheers
Sophie

Le 17/12/2014 17:27, Jay Philips a écrit :

> Hi All,
>
> This all seems to be coming down to my current workflow about
> enhancement bugs that i'm opening. To my knowledge, there has been only
> two bug reports that i have not given enough information, which resulted
> in them being set to NEEDINFO, which i then followed up with more
> information.
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87362
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86627
>
> As i'm opening enhancement requests, sometimes i seek the advise of more
> experienced users to know whether the enhancement is a good idea or not,
> which can be seen in the two examples previously quoted.
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
>
> If the QA team doesnt wish to give their input into these enhancement
> requests, then i think the simplest thing to do is to set them all as
> ux-advise rather than what i currently do of assigning it to the
> component and CC ux-advise. I guess my main issue is not knowing what is
> considered ux-advise and what isnt.
>
> Regards,
> Jay Philips
>
> On 12/17/2014 06:08 PM, Sophie wrote:
>> Hi Kendy, all,
>> Le 17/12/2014 12:47, Jan Holesovsky a écrit :
>>> Hi Sophie,
>>>
>>> Sophie píše v Út 16. 12. 2014 v 19:16 +0100:
>>>>  
>>>>>> Discussing with QA team today, there has been a lot of bug reports
>>>>>> concerning minor enhancements these last days.
>>>>>> It would be better is those enhancements would be first discussed by the
>>>>>> UX team before going to QA for triage because most of the time they
>>>>>> don't have the requested info regarding bug filling then QA team has to
>>>>>> spend a lot of time to reproduce them and this is not up to the QA team
>>>>>> to discuss UX enhancements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please can you send few examples to have a better idea? :-)
>>>>
>>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87360
>>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87357
>>>> or see this list:
>>>> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&component=ux-advise&email1=philipz85%40hotmail.co&emailtype1=substring&list_id=505514&product=LibreOffice&query_format=advanced
>>>
>>> Ah! - so Jay is a very active member of the Design Team, and discusses
>>> his proposals the right way; so I am not really concerned about these
>>> reports :-) - they will be handled properly, I am sure.
>>
>> ok, no problem, Jay is an example (and great to see him so active here
>> now :) but that will help to set the good process between the teams.
>>>
>>> So to get them out of the stats - does the NEEDINFO + ux-advise
>>> component (as Stuart proposed) work for you, Sophie?  Jay - can you
>>> please mark your reports that way if yes?
>>
>> Well, I'm only the messenger here. So let me make the proposal to the QA
>> team during their meeting this evening, and I'll report back to you, but
>> I guess they will be ok with Stuart proposal and yours.
>>>
>>>> Yes, but that is a lot of work for bug triagers. If you well know the
>>>> functionality, it's easy to discriminate, but for QA people who do not
>>>> have that knowledge, the lack of steps to reproduce, examples, etc. is
>>>> very time consuming plus the fact that he won't know what to do with it
>>>> (50% of users would like to have it and the other 50% won't), when it
>>>> can be solved quickly by discussing a little bit.
>>>
>>> Sure, as I did not have the examples, I did not know exactly what you
>>> had in mind :-)
>>
>> Ok, thanks a lot to Stuart and you to help me clarify it :)
>> Cheers
>> Sophie
>>


--
Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
Tel:+33683901545
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
V Stuart Foote V Stuart Foote
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: RFE process between QA and UX

All,
sophi wrote
So following the discussion we had yesterday during the QA meeting
(thanks Jay for your participation :) we agreed that issues created by
UX/Design members will be set as NEW and assigned to UX-advice.
The QA wiki pages will be modified to reflect this change.
...
From the Design hangout minutes  (w/minor  reformatting).

Bugzilla workflow proposal after the QA [and UX/Design] team meetings.

      1) issues opened as an enhancement of UX or in UI/Design elements
         should always be handled in Bugzilla UX-advise component.

      2) opened as UNCONFIRMED by anyone, or directly NEW by Design/UX
         team participants (including any Devs and QA folks)

      3) Design/UX team participants, or any QA review should go ahead
         and adjust the component to UX-advise and NEW

      4) Design/UX team should review proposal for completeness, ask OP
         for needed details, and add to weekly agenda

      5) while active, pending Design/UX consideration retain NEW, or
         NEEDINFO

      6) if/when "voted" down from UX or Design perspective, close as
         WONTFIX

      7) if/when approved--retain as NEW, but what then?

         Q: should we retain issues in BZ UX-advise, or change BZ component
            to UI as now happens, or change to the affected LO component?
         Q: UI vs. specific component, any risk of losing track of
            Design/UX recommendations?
         Q: should we track the BZ issues on the Wiki anyway?
         Q: for Devs seeking guidance, how to communicate design or UI
           decisions?
         Q: any need to convey prioritization of enhancement or UI change,
           or impact on UX?

And here are the guidelines now posted to the QA/Bug Triage Wiki

UX Enhancements

Any bugs which cover enhancements to the UI/UX of LibreOffice should be given to the UX Team

    Change the Component to ux-advise
    Update the Status
        If the request looks complete and plausible, Status -> NEW
        If the request seems incomplete or needs explaining, Status -> NEEDINFO

    Leave a comment along the lines of:
        "UX Team -- please take a look at this enhancement. Thanks!"

Happy to pick this up again in the new year if there is any more to be resolved--we want folks to be happy with the arrangements. But more importantly to feel welcome to participate on both QA and the UX /Design reviews

Stuart