RTF support

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tracey002 tracey002
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RTF support

I had discovered that Open Office Writer does NOT really support functional RTF features (the ones that I tried anyway).
When I posted issues to an OpenOffice Users Group, I was re-directed to Libre Office.
Can I help in some way?
Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
As an End User, my experience has been to export (Documents and/or Data) in simple HTML or RTF text format for other End Users to use in their word Processor or Spreadsheet.
Miklos Vajna Miklos Vajna
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Re: RTF support

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:28:25PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I had discovered that Open Office Writer does NOT really support functional
> RTF features (the ones that I tried anyway).
> When I posted issues to an OpenOffice Users Group, I was re-directed to
> Libre Office.
> Can I help in some way?

Hi,

Sure, if you find an RTF-related bug, then see here:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport#LibreOffice_Bug_Reports

Search bugzilla if it's already known, if not, then try to create a
minimal reproducder:

- import bugs: rtf format
- export bugs: odt format

Then we'll try to fix.

Thanks.

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tracey002 tracey002
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Re: RTF support

Would it be of any real help if I sent you the 1.9.1 RTF spec with the type-Os in the RTF controls corrected?
If not, I won't bother because I use a dial-up connection.
 
Attached is a list of the rtf Controls that I have assembled.
Thanks, Tracey
----- Original Message ----- 
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: RTF support

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 12:28:25PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I had discovered that Open Office Writer does NOT really support functional
> RTF features (the ones that I tried anyway).
> When I posted issues to an OpenOffice Users Group, I was re-directed to
> Libre Office.
> Can I help in some way?

Hi,

Sure, if you find an RTF-related bug, then see here:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport#LibreOffice_Bug_Reports

Search bugzilla if it's already known, if not, then try to create a
minimal reproducder:

- import bugs: rtf format
- export bugs: odt format

Then we'll try to fix.

Thanks.

_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice

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Miklos Vajna Miklos Vajna
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Re: RTF support

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 04:03:41PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Would it be of any real help if I sent you the 1.9.1 RTF spec with the
> type-Os in the RTF controls corrected?

Hi Tracey,

If you think the spec has typos, then please send those to its authors,
not to me.

> If not, I won't bother because I use a dial-up connection.

Don't worry about that, a typical minimal rtf import bug reproducer is
under 1KB.

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Re: RTF support

I parsed a Libre Office RTF document and found a  number of RTF controls
that are not in the Microsoft RTF Specification.
Is there a list of non-Microsoft RTF controls used by Libre Office?
Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey

Miklos Vajna [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 04:03:41PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3115765&i=0>> wrote:
> > Would it be of any real help if I sent you the 1.9.1 RTF spec with the
> > type-Os in the RTF controls corrected?
>
> Hi Tracey,
>
> If you think the spec has typos, then please send those to its authors,
> not to me.
>
> > If not, I won't bother because I use a dial-up connection.
>
> Don't worry about that, a typical minimal rtf import bug reproducer is
> under 1KB.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3115765&i=1>
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
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Re: RTF support

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:53:28PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I parsed a Libre Office RTF document and found a  number of RTF controls
> that are not in the Microsoft RTF Specification.
> Is there a list of non-Microsoft RTF controls used by Libre Office?

I don't know about any specification for that, sorry - we all inherited
those from OOo.

From memory, those are:

- pgdsctbl group: for page styles
- updnprop group: for sub/superscript
- hyphen group: for detailed hyphenation properties

If you can write a script that extracts keywords from the exporter and
looks them up in the spec, finally lists the custom ones in the wiki,
that would be great. Otherwise I'll probably do it some day.

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cbosdonnat cbosdonnat
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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by tracey002
Hi Tracey,

On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 14:53 -0700, tracey002 wrote:
> I parsed a Libre Office RTF document and found a  number of RTF
> controls
> that are not in the Microsoft RTF Specification.
> Is there a list of non-Microsoft RTF controls used by Libre Office?

Hum, I don't think there is such a list anywhere. These are mostly hacks
for the formatted copy / paste feature. IIRC page formatting has quite
some of these.

--
C├ędric Bosdonnat
LibreOffice hacker
http://documentfoundation.org
OOo Eclipse Integration developer
http://cedric.bosdonnat.free.fr

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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by Miklos Vajna
How can I obtain this exporter (direct web link)?
I look at the developer pages, but reading the words and understanding
the meaning are 2 separate issues.
Just FYI, RTF allows customization as long  as they formatted so a
reader that opens the document: 1) Does not crash. 2) retains
block/group intact when it saves the document.
Thanks, Tracey
Miklos Vajna [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:53:28PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3124847&i=0>> wrote:
> > I parsed a Libre Office RTF document and found a  number of RTF
> controls
> > that are not in the Microsoft RTF Specification.
> > Is there a list of non-Microsoft RTF controls used by Libre Office?
>
> I don't know about any specification for that, sorry - we all inherited
> those from OOo.
>
> From memory, those are:
>
> - pgdsctbl group: for page styles
> - updnprop group: for sub/superscript
> - hyphen group: for detailed hyphenation properties
>
> If you can write a script that extracts keywords from the exporter and
> looks them up in the spec, finally lists the custom ones in the wiki,
> that would be great. Otherwise I'll probably do it some day.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3124847&i=1>
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
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Re: RTF support

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 04:42:30AM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How can I obtain this exporter (direct web link)?
> I look at the developer pages, but reading the words and understanding
> the meaning are 2 separate issues.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Native_Build

> Just FYI, RTF allows customization as long  as they formatted so a
> reader that opens the document: 1) Does not crash. 2) retains
> block/group intact when it saves the document.

This is not the correct definition of what customization is allowed. :)

But sure, I'm aware of what an rtf reader should ignore, that's clearly
stated in the spec. (See the \* control word.)

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tracey002 tracey002
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Re: RTF support

I did not find what I anything that looked applicable.
However I did download the source code from the download page contained
in tar.bz2 files.
I assume these are zip files.
Can you tell me what file name for which I am looking and the containing
zip file name?
Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
06/27/2011  04:05a          13,542,278 libreoffice-artwork-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           2,068,353 libreoffice-base-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           2,707,154 libreoffice-bootstrap-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           9,521,156 libreoffice-calc-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           5,094,752
libreoffice-components-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           4,215,501
libreoffice-extensions-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          38,642,506 libreoffice-extras-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          11,774,356 libreoffice-filters-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           1,846,148 libreoffice-help-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           2,651,815 libreoffice-impress-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          15,601,815 libreoffice-libs-core-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a             637,815
libreoffice-libs-extern-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          40,003,280
libreoffice-libs-extern-sys-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          10,852,777 libreoffice-libs-gui-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a              50,867
libreoffice-postprocess-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a           1,721,006 libreoffice-sdk-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:05a          50,845,728 libreoffice-testing-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:06a           6,213,303 libreoffice-ure-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2
06/27/2011  04:06a           7,309,213 libreoffice-writer-3.4.1.3.tar.bz2

Miklos Vajna [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 04:42:30AM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3129083&i=0>> wrote:
> > How can I obtain this exporter (direct web link)?
> > I look at the developer pages, but reading the words and understanding
> > the meaning are 2 separate issues.
>
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Native_Build
>
> > Just FYI, RTF allows customization as long  as they formatted so a
> > reader that opens the document: 1) Does not crash. 2) retains
> > block/group intact when it saves the document.
>
> This is not the correct definition of what customization is allowed. :)
>
> But sure, I'm aware of what an rtf reader should ignore, that's clearly
> stated in the spec. (See the \* control word.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3129083&i=1>
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
> *attachment0* (205 bytes) Download Attachment
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>
>
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Re: RTF support

On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 06:57:16AM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I did not find what I anything that looked applicable.
> However I did download the source code from the download page contained
> in tar.bz2 files.
> I assume these are zip files.

No, these are tar.bz2 files.

> Can you tell me what file name for which I am looking and the containing
> zip file name?

The export filter lives under /sw/source/filter/ww8, the current
importer is under /sw/source/filter/rtf, the work-in-progress new
importer (which is enabled in experimental mode only) is under
/writerfilter/source/rtftok/. The sw dir is in the writer tarball,
writerfilter is in filters.

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Re: RTF support

Using the downloaded source dated June 19th and 20th of 2011.
Except for the RTFScanner.lex file (dated June 19th, 2011) which had RTF
Controls listed, I ended up searching for the string "RTF_" and assumed
that the uppercase alpha characters that followed are RTF controls (that
appeared to be the pattern anyway).
Of the 1807 RTF Controls found in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification,
1,333 need to be added to the Import Routine and 1,419 need to be added
to the Export Routine (see attached).
66 controls used in the import and/or export routine require definition
because they do not appear in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification (see
attached).

FYI, Tracey

Miklos Vajna [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 01, 2011 at 06:57:16AM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3135042&i=0>> wrote:
> > I did not find what I anything that looked applicable.
> > However I did download the source code from the download page contained
> > in tar.bz2 files.
> > I assume these are zip files.
>
> No, these are tar.bz2 files.
>
> > Can you tell me what file name for which I am looking and the
> containing
> > zip file name?
>
> The export filter lives under /sw/source/filter/ww8, the current
> importer is under /sw/source/filter/rtf, the work-in-progress new
> importer (which is enabled in experimental mode only) is under
> /writerfilter/source/rtftok/. The sw dir is in the writer tarball,
> writerfilter is in filters.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3135042&i=1>
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
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Re: RTF support

On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:54:58PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Using the downloaded source dated June 19th and 20th of 2011.
> Except for the RTFScanner.lex file (dated June 19th, 2011) which had RTF
> Controls listed, I ended up searching for the string "RTF_" and assumed
> that the uppercase alpha characters that followed are RTF controls (that
> appeared to be the pattern anyway).

Yep, both the old and the new import filter uses RTF_FOO to parse \foo.
The exporter uses OOO_STRING_SVTOOLS_RTF_FOO.

> Of the 1807 RTF Controls found in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification,
> 1,333 need to be added to the Import Routine and 1,419 need to be added
> to the Export Routine (see attached).

Nah, just adding them is easy - the real trick is to implement them. Is
there any area where you would be interested to help? I would suggest
contributing to the exporter, as that one is not under heavy
development.

> 66 controls used in the import and/or export routine require definition
> because they do not appear in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification (see
> attached).

Attachement stripped - probably you need to get an email client instead
of nabble if you want to send attachements.

Still, if you could put a table to the wiki containing those 66
keywords, then we could start writing oneliner documentations for them -
that would be a great start.

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Re: RTF support

Hi,
 sorry but your post really interesting ....
 I'm not sure if there is already a solution to my bug

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38966

thanks

RZ
Roberto Zucchetto - Responsabile Servizi Informativi
COMUNE DI SAN FIOR
Piazza G. Marconi n. 2 - 31020 San Fior (TV)
tracey002 tracey002
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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by Miklos Vajna
> Is there any area where you would be interested to help? I would
> suggest contributing to the exporter, as that one is not under heavy
> development.
Interested? Yes
Capable? Alas, at the present a very sad no. C looks like hieroglyphs
compared the near-english Pick-Basic Database Language I use: I can read
and recognize some the C words, but the C syntax is confusing.

Would anyone happen to know of a tutorial program on the internet from
which I could learn the necessary C syntax in order to develop the rtf
importer/exporter?
A download link perhaps?
Until now, I have never had a need or reason to learn C.

> Still, if you could put a table to the wiki containing those 66 ...
Yes, I will do that if someone would explain to me how to do that.
I have a couple of HTML tutorials circa msOffice97

Thanks, Tracey

Miklos Vajna [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 12:54:58PM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3139135&i=0>> wrote:
> > Using the downloaded source dated June 19th and 20th of 2011.
> > Except for the RTFScanner.lex file (dated June 19th, 2011) which had
> RTF
> > Controls listed, I ended up searching for the string "RTF_" and assumed
> > that the uppercase alpha characters that followed are RTF controls
> (that
> > appeared to be the pattern anyway).
>
> Yep, both the old and the new import filter uses RTF_FOO to parse \foo.
> The exporter uses OOO_STRING_SVTOOLS_RTF_FOO.
>
> > Of the 1807 RTF Controls found in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification,
> > 1,333 need to be added to the Import Routine and 1,419 need to be added
> > to the Export Routine (see attached).
>
> Nah, just adding them is easy - the real trick is to implement them. Is
> there any area where you would be interested to help? I would suggest
> contributing to the exporter, as that one is not under heavy
> development.
>
> > 66 controls used in the import and/or export routine require definition
> > because they do not appear in the March 2008 1.9.1 Specification (see
> > attached).
>
> Attachement stripped - probably you need to get an email client instead
> of nabble if you want to send attachements.
>
> Still, if you could put a table to the wiki containing those 66
> keywords, then we could start writing oneliner documentations for them -
> that would be a great start.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3139135&i=1>
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
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>
>
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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by comunesanfior
I don't know, I am not a C developer.
I counted 1807 RTF Controls in the v1.9.1 RTF Specification.
As of June 20, 2011, Libre Office has about 12 % theoretical support for
RTF (perfectly implemented and not considering bugs or glitches).
If I understood correctly, I thought I read somewhere the Libre Office
exporter was worked on last summer (please correct me if I'm wrong).

There are 230 out of 633 RTF Controls that are in both the importer
(including those currently under development) and exporter (230/1807=12%)
There are 244 other RTF Controls only found in the importer (including
those currently under development) (230+244/1807=26%)
There are 158 other RTF Controls only found in exporter (230+158/1807=21%)
So, you have about an 21% chance of success (don't bet you next lunch on
that one).

I think RTF support is important because many Users could use Libre
Office if they can still reliably work with their existing documents:
without starting from scratch or having major issues/fixes/trashing
with/of their current documents.

If we support, encourage and assist Miklos Vajna in any way we can,
Libre Office can have 100% theoretical support for RTF.
Just FYI, Tracey

comunesanfior [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] wrote:

> Hi,
>  sorry but your post really interesting ....
>  I'm not sure if there is already a solution to my bug
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38966
>
> thanks
>
> RZ
> Roberto Zucchetto - Responsabile Servizi Informativi
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tracey002 tracey002
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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by tracey002
tracey002 wrote
I can read and recognize some the C words, but the C syntax is confusing.
No offense (against/to) C/C++ (inferred/intended): "confusing" is not the correct word.

I think the word mysterious is appropriate:
I can read and recognize some the C "key" words, but the C syntax is mysterious (beyond my current understanding).

Just FYI, Tracey
Miklos Vajna Miklos Vajna
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Re: RTF support

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On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 07:55:47AM -0700, tracey002 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Would anyone happen to know of a tutorial program on the internet from
> which I could learn the necessary C syntax in order to develop the rtf
> importer/exporter?

Actually it's C++. I think "the" C++ book is The C++ Programming
Language from Stroustrup.

> A download link perhaps?
> Until now, I have never had a need or reason to learn C.

I'm not sure if it's freely downloadable.

> > Still, if you could put a table to the wiki containing those 66 ...
> Yes, I will do that if someone would explain to me how to do that.
> I have a couple of HTML tutorials circa msOffice97

TDF wiki uses mediawiki syntax. See here:

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Help:Editing

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Miklos Vajna Miklos Vajna
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Re: RTF support

In reply to this post by comunesanfior
On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 03:46:06AM -0700, comunesanfior <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  I'm not sure if there is already a solution to my bug
>
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38966

It's already assigned, we'll soon have a look at it.

Thank you for your patience.

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tracey002 tracey002
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Re: RTF support

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Can someone please identify the following RTF Controls?

\facpgsxn 162
\nextcset 249
\tql 371
After the control, the number is the line in the rtfkeywd.hxx file

I assume the category "RTF Control" means the controls are native to RTF, but I can not find them in the documentation
Please advise.
Thanks, Tracey
I am running LibreOffice v3.6.7.2 on Windows2K
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